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Messages - mango

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thank you both for the replies.
yes, switching to raw ZC has done wonders for the candida i've had for 20+ years that has plagued my body. i feel like i'm close to 90% healed, and getting 0.1% better each day, slowly moving towards 100%. raw beef has been a god-send :)

i will look into pau d'arco tea as well. looking forward to being able to enjoy a few cups of tea per day like i used to, especially with the weather getting much cooler. i might bring back ginger and peppermint tea if all goes well with the tulsi tea.

also going to experiment with the pure stevia extract (kal brand) which i used in the past, which has no additives whatsoever and tastes great. before going raw ZC i thought that stevia was causing my blood pressure to drop too much, but i was on so many different supplements and vitamins and using cannabis all the time in those days to help relieve my suffering that i'm not sure it was a fair conclusion that i came to.

hi, does anyone here drink tulsi (holy basil) tea regularly?
I've been raw ZC for about 8 months and the day I started I cut out all herbal teas and stevia that I was drinking multiple times daily. I was thinking of reintroducing tulsi tea (with no sweetener) back into my diet as I've just come across research showing that tulsi tea can have beneficial effects in treating candida ( plus I really remember loving the taste.

on the other hand, I've been eating only beef,fat, and water for so long and having such great results with that, that I'm skeptical about changing anything. are there any experiences or drawbacks to me adding this into my diet that you can share? i wasn't sure if the mold content is a concern, like it is with black/green tea, but couldn't find much evidence of this if using a quality brand.

Thank you!

hi jessica, i had a question about the oleic acid which you mentioned in your post.

i've been rubbing coconut oil on my face and scalp, 2-3 times a week, about 10-15 minutes before i get in the shower. i don't use any cleaning products whatsoever (shampoo,conditioner,soap etc.) and was wondering if using coconut oil in this manner would cause dandruff over time? i don't have much dandruff currently as it's gotten much better when i started eating RZC, but light dandruff occasionally, which i attribute to the remaining candida in my system.

i know in india that many women use coconut oil on their hair and leave it overnight, so i didn't realize that it could actually have negative effects. but considering that i don't use any shampoo/conditioner like most people do, would the small amounts of oil which remain on my scalp would be a problem?


thank you van, i will look into both options you mentioned.

i didn't consider that, but it seems like a great idea, much cheaper too.
i've seen mason jars with the metal lids, a little larger than the size of a spaghetti sauce bottle.
is it safe for the raw meat to be in contact with the metal?

Thought I'd share a bit of my hour by hour experiment in case anyone else finds it as interesting as I do :)

I've been increasing the time, hour by hour, to see how long the 75/25 ground beef can sit at room temperature (80 degrees, with no air circulation or fans on).  So far, I've been able to leave out a huge plate full of crumbled ground beef for 16 hours and it still tastes and smells great.  To me this makes ground beef even more of the perfect food for RZC and the best bang for the buck.

I probably won't experiment anymore to find the maximum amount of time as I noticed that I prefer the meat when its only been out 4-8 hours or so, and is still a bit juicy.  I also noticed that the more the meat dries and the texture stiffens, it doesn't seem to make me feel as full as that same quantity normally would, probably due to it being so dry and not having much water content, but perhaps oxidization somehow impacts the way my body processes the fats. 

Dr.D, I was looking on Amazon for a glass tupperware set for traveling.  Does it matter if the lid is plastic? Assuming the meat will not be resting on the plastic portion while I travel, I wasn't sure if this made any difference or not.  If it does matter, do you have a particular brand of glass tupperware with glass lids that you recommend? Most of the ones I saw on Amazon didn't have such great ratings.

General Discussion / Re: Weirdest (and funniest) food combos!
« on: September 02, 2013, 11:44:28 pm »
raw salmon floating in a bowl of melted lamb tallow. lol

feeling afterwards: like i just did something weird/wrong.

(in my early days of RZC i was too hung up on trying to get as much variety as possible and 70-80% fat at each meal)

Dr.D, great idea, thanks for the tip!

van, thanks for expanding on the post from Iguana, no offense was taken.  when i started RPD i came from a cooked ZC diet where i had a lot of trouble determining what the right stop point was, and was too used to eating just for the pleasure of it. combined with the lingering candida in my body it was very frustrating to know at what point the true hunger ended and this was one of the main reasons i ventured over to raw meats.

once i switched, it was much easier to find this stop point and after a few weeks of initially overeating and having diarrhea alternating with constipation, i found the ideal amount of meat that my body needs each day. it doesnt vary much unless i'm especially active, and my activity levels are usually pretty consistent day to day. i work a desk job (standing desk when i'm at home for the first few hours each morning) and currently not doing any intense exercise as my energy levels fluctuate and i want to direct all my bodys energy towards healing this infection asap. i do go for long walks outside at a pretty good pace for about 1 hr every morning and evening, and this seems to help a lot with digestion. 

jessica, i initially experimented with grounding up grassfed hearts, livers, and kidneys, but found that after eating about 1oz of this combination for 1-2 weeks, i started to show all the signs of copper toxicity and the candida got out of control. i dont hear of many other people having this reaction, especially with such small amounts, but it certainly made me realize that my body isn't ready for this right now. i may experiment again in the future once all the candida has cleared up. also, i dont have any local access to marrow bones, and ordering online would cost more than the ground meat itself. thanks for the suggestion though.

good for you, but not very relevant to the topic.
personally i'm not striving to live identically to how humans did in paleolithic times.
most of us here probably use toilet paper, hand soap, drive cars, etc.. that our ancestors didn't have access to.

grassfed ground beef if 1/2 the price of other cuts of beef and nutritionally identical, and makes this way of living affordable for myself.

Dr.D, i haven't tried high meat yet, but i'm definitely fascinated by the potential health benefits of it.

i've only been RZC for about 4 months and am still fighting off what was once a major candida infection, so i'll probably venture onto high meats once i've completely healed in the next 1-2 years (hopefully). my energy levels are still up/down from the die-off so i'd like to minimize all the variables during this process.

one last question i had on this topic -  if i was traveling and i put my meat in a tupperware container around 7am, and planned to eat this around 7pm, would the meat age in a different/undesirable way since it will not be exposed to the air for that 12hr period?

thanks jessica for breaking it all down!  that makes a lot of sense. :)
i'm not going to worry about how many hours exactly my meat is out for, as long as it tastes good and digests properly, thats what matters.

Thanks all, for the replies, I appreciate it.

I must admit that I'm a bit more confused now then when I posted this question.  Apologies if I'm missing the obvious and making this more complicated than it needs to be, but maybe I can clarify what I'm trying to find out.

I can only afford grassfed/finsished beef in the ground form, so I expect to be eating this for the long term.  Also, I'm not so interested in making high meat or aging it for very long at room temperature, but more so wondering if there is an ideal # of hours to leave it out before each of my 2 daily meals.

In case anyone was wondering, I left the ground beef out yesterday for 12 hours in my home which is at a constant 80 degrees with not much air circulation, and it was delicious, no signs of the fat becoming rancid.  I might try to bump this up for a couple more hours sometime over the next few days to see what the limit is.

What I really want to find out is that if there is an advantage to leaving my ground beef meals out for ex. 12 hours vs. 5 hours?  I don't understand too much about the process of oxidation, and didn't know if a longer or shorter time would be more beneficial if it is going to be at room temperature?

Dr.D, what cuts of meat are these that you regularly leave out for this long? I'm quite surprised and glad to know that fatty cuts of meat can be left out that long and still be eaten without any problem!

Jessica, I haven't eaten eggs since starting ZC (8 months ago) since at the time I had digestion issues and mental fogginess after consuming just a few eggs.  But to be fair, I was consuming the whole egg, and lightly cooking/hard boiling them, so I'm not sure if I would have that same reaction. 
And these were the "omega 3" organic eggs, which at the time I presumed to be the healthiest, but have since learned that its best to get eggs from chickens that are free to roam and eat their natural diet.  But, the cost of buying these eggs from Whole Foods is close to $8/dozen and since I'd be throwing out the whites I couldn't justify the cost of this.  Also, I honestly haven't felt like experimenting since I'm so happy eating raw ground beef, or lamb if beef is not available.

As some of you know, my diet consists 100% of raw grassfed/finished ground beef (75/25). 
I was wondering if there are health benefits to leaving this fatty ground meat sitting out at room temperature, for longer periods of time?  As I've gotten more accustomed to the flavor and taste of raw meat over the last few months, I've started to prefer that it sits out at room temperature in my home (75-80 degrees) for 5-6 hours before each meal, when possible.  Yesterday, I experimented to see how it would taste if I left it out for 9 hours, and I found the meat to be even more delicious and enjoyed the crusted texture very much. 

I read somewhere that there may be an increase in the growth of beneficial bacteria the longer meat is exposed to warm temperatures, but wasn't sure if this also applied to fatty meat like 75/25 ground beef, and couldn't find any research on this. 

Also, is there an amount of hours after which the fat will certainly go rancid and be unsafe to eat?

I'm going to leave my meat out for 11 hours today and see how that goes.


no offense taken. i've seen mention of the "problems" with ZC 1-2 years down the line several times on this forum, and it scared me when starting off on my journey, but honestly i don't buy. in 7 months i'm not showing any deficiencies, and this is while my body is going through a major healing process and fighting this candida infection which i still have to a minor degree.
keep in mind during these 7 months the candida has been still present in my system, although much less than ever before, and has been robbing my body of nutrients from the meat/fat that i'm eating.  yet i still haven't shown any deficiencies.   so once i'm completely healed in another few months or a year, and my body is getting 100% of the nutrients, i can't imagine things would get worse. if anything they would only be similar or much better than they are now (and i currently feel pretty awesome on a usual day)

it's true that most on here do not eat a diet of only meat/fat, but for those with severe candida infections they usually cannot eat any fruits, veggies, yogurts, dairy, etc.. i wasted somewhere between 1-2 years coming to that realization.   so i'm posting this to encourage those who may be in a similar situation. i fully intend to stick around this forum for the next few years and provide updates on how its going :) happy to answer any questions/PM's

those are all valid concerns you've mentioned for someone starting out on ZC.  some of those issues i've come across as well. most especially learning not to exceed the amount of protein i need each day, and initially learning to eat the right balance of fat:protein. 
about 99% of the meat i've consumed in these 7 months has been the US Wellness 75/25 grassfed ground beef. i've found that it is the perfect ratio of fat/protein for my body and highly recommend it.
i can see how some/most could easily get bored with eating the same meat of the same texture each day, but personally i love the simplicity of it and completely enjoy both of my daily meals.

thanks :)
for most of my life i hadn't consumed any food which was a major source of vitamin a.
the only food was the liver i experimented with for 1-2 weeks back in may of this year.

i understand that most on this forum don't think that a ZC diet is healthy, and that organ meats are essential. but in 7 months of ZC i've almost completely eliminated all signs of a lifelong candida infection, not to mention carpal tunnel/arthritis and a whole host of other undiagnosed mental/physical issues. no signs of any vitamin a deficiency here. the only setback i experienced was when I started eating organ meats, so based on my experiences it is not essential in a ZC diet.

Off Topic / Re: What's the word on homeopathy?
« on: August 05, 2013, 08:34:07 am »
i don't have much knowledge on homeopathy or any science to contribute, but i had parents who firmly believed in homeopathy over conventional medicine for about the first 10 years of my life, and i honestly believe that homeopathy is a crock of shit.  saw the "top" homeopath doctors in the area and not once did it help relieve anything.. from the cold, to warts, to digestion issues.. just wasted years of my life with that nonsense.

after about 2 weeks of having 1-2ozs of raw grassfed beef liver daily, i started to show all the signs of copper toxicity.. and many of my candida symptoms returned and it took me several weeks to go back to normal. have since cut out all organ meats and am doing just great on a muscle meat only diet.

i was trying to reply to your PM but says your inbox is full - msg me when you've cleared it out and i will send you my reply.

Journals / Re: Just starting ZC carnivor, might need pointers plz
« on: July 09, 2013, 10:46:43 am »
I've been doing raw ZC for close to 2 months (and 6 months of cooked ZC prior to this) and have had nothing but complete success and reversal of so many serious health issues that have plagued me my whole life.
Happy to answer any questions you might have.

99% of what I've been eating has been grassfed 75/25 ground beef.

Experimented with organ meats for about 2 weeks (grassfed heart, liver, kidney), eating a few ozs each day, and ended up feeling horrible after a few days.  I personally can't understand how so many on this forum an consume massive amounts of organ meat each day - they are so loaded with vitamins that I literally feel like I'm overdosing on some strange drugs after a few days.

I'm one of the few on here who advocates a muscle meat only raw ZC (grassfed) diet! :)

Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Homemade organ mix
« on: May 09, 2013, 02:20:12 am »
Thank you PaleoPhil for the detailed response.
Regarding chewing, in the sticky for newbies it was stated that:

"AV says that the ptyalin in your saliva retards the action of protein digesting enzymes so you should expose the least amount of surface area of your food to saliva in your mouth for optimum digestion, which translates to minimal chewing.In other words, unlike with cooked-foods which need to be chewed due to a lack of enzymes in them, raw foods can and should be bolted down with minimal chewing"

Given this, wouldn't ground beef be an optimal food source, especially for someone overcoming previous digestion issues?

Part of why I rely on grassfed ground beef for 100% of my meat consumption is due to the cost.  I can reliably get 1lb packages of 75/25 GB for under $6/lb whereas muscle cuts could cost almost twice the price.  And given that I'm on a ZC diet it would seem optimal to get nutrients from all different parts of the animal, instead of a specific muscle cut, wouldn't you agree? 

Thanks again to you all for your replies.

Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Homemade organ mix
« on: May 08, 2013, 04:18:46 am »
Thanks for the feedback, that makes a lot of sense.  I hope in the future to get to a point where you all are at,  for now my goal would be to get my main meat consumption closer to 100% raw, and mainly am consuming the organs in this ground form to help with recovery from previous health issues.

Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Homemade organ mix
« on: May 08, 2013, 03:11:05 am »
Hi Folks, I had a question for you about my transition over to the raw world.

Right now I'd say that I eat about all of meat about 70% raw, but still lightly cook my GB on each side (for under 60 seconds).
Day by day I'm increasing this % by cutting down the amount of time it's cooked and feel like I've made some serious progress lately - definitely thanks to all for the thread with the video clips of you all eating your raw meals! :) 

After reading up on the benefits of organ meat, I decided to eat raw beef liver but didn't enjoy the taste very much.  I got the idea that perhaps I could purchase several different organs and blend them up into a ground beef texture which I could consume raw before each meal.

I figured that if I'm consuming only meat, that it would make sense to consume organ meat in a similar ratio as to how the animal is actually composed of.  I got this idea from reading Lex's journal and figured that a similar ratio of about 10% organ meat would suffice for me as well.

So a few days ago I mixed up .4lb beef kidney, .4lb beef liver, and .2lb of lamb heart (all grassfed of course) in my food processor.  The texture of this mix was a little more liquid than normal GB, but that actually made it easier to swallow it down quickly.  So I'm pretty happy with this overall since I'm eating it 100% raw and noticing an increased energy and better digestion.  But just had a few quick questions:

- Do any of you create similar blends? If so, what animals/organs do you mostly consume?

- Is there any disadvantage to blending up organs and storing them in this form in the fridge for 1-2 weeks?

- Would you recommend mixing different animal organs in here, such as chicken liver for more folate? or are these 3 organs (beef,kidney,heart) pretty much a good solid base. I will probably stick to all beef organs next time if so.

- Is there any worry about this raw mixture going bad in the fridge or losing its nutrients? I eat about 12 oz of high fat GB twice a day, and am consuming about 1-1.5 oz of this organ mixture with each meal, so I imagine it will stay in the fridge for 1-2 weeks.

- Do you think this ratio of 10% is suitable for a 30 year old male, or would I benefit to increase it slightly?

Thank you very much in advance for any feedback or advice for you may have :)

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