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Messages - Sitting Coyote

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I wonder if they explore the link between agriculture, environmental degradation, eating grains and beans as staples, and the suite of diseases that go along with it?  Nice to see the report, but I suspect it falls far short of connecting the relevant dots. 

Anyone have access to the report so that enquiring minds don't have to pay for it?

Hot Topics / Re: RPD relationships/ dating
« on: May 25, 2010, 08:36:01 am »
I'd love to be in a relationship with someone who shared a raw paleo diet.  Any RPDers live in Vermont?

Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Cold water Therapy
« on: May 25, 2010, 08:33:13 am »
This isn't shower therapy per se, but for the last few years I've started swimming earlier and earlier in Lake Champlain, in northern Vermont, which is a reasonably short walk from my house. 

This year I jumped in April 2.  According to NOAA, the water temperature was 38 F (4 C).  The water was so cold it hurt my skin when I jumped in, but after ten seconds or so that passed and I swam until i started to shiver (which admittedly only took a minute or so).  I swam earlier this evening and the water temp has risen to 56 F (13 C) and could stay in for about ten minutes, although I was the only one at the crowded beach that was in the water at the time, and people were looking at me funny...

I think the coldest water I've swam in was about 34 F (1 C).  It was in the Bighorn Mountains in Wyoming.  It was a warm day in late May but there was still a fair amount of snow on the ground, and i found a deep pool while hiking and fishing and decided to strip down and jump in.  COLD!  I stayed in for less than a minute before i had to jump out and dry off, and even made a little fire to make some tea so i could regain my body temperature.  After i felt good again i fished in the pool and caught two brook trout.  I've never tasted fish that were so sweet and fresh!  Didn't eat them raw, though.  This was a few years ago, before I got into the raw paleo thing.

In the cooked paleo diet forum they believe in bacteria, parasites and taking prescription drugs.

I also believe in bacteria, parasites and taking prescription drugs.  There are bacteria and parasites, and people do take prescription drugs, although not me.

I'd guess the ratio between CPDers and RPDers is probably closer to 100:1.  I'm basing this off personal observations; I don't meet a lot of either group, so don't think the ratio could much exceed 100:1.  A lot of people certainly try CPD, but grains and beans are extremely addictive and most can't handle the withdrawl symptoms.  I've had several relatives try CPD, but abandoned ship within a month.  I admittedly fall off the wagon occasionally, particularly in social situations, although being RPD I've developed an affinity for the taste of raw meat, organs and eggs so getting back on the wagon is a seamless, swift process.   

Very cool. What do you hunt?

My primary quarry is whitetail deer, but i'll put in for a moose permit this year and would take any legal herbivore.  I'm also toying with the idea of buying a turkey tag this year, as i had a couple good shots last year during deer season but had to pass because i didn't have a tag.

Vibram offers a version of their FiveFingers with a thicker, more heavily textured sole for hiking and trekking, although I don't know the name of it off hand.  I just bought a pair for running, and I like them a lot.  I also think the individual toes are useful for those of us who hunt, because when you are stalking you can use your toes to grab sticks and move them out from where you want to step so you don't snap them when you put your foot down. 

I ate some of the liver from the whitetail deer I shot last fall.  It also had a very mild flavor with a hint of sweetness.  I've found that I've taken to raw liver faster than to raw meat more generally, and whenever I go to the store I always walk down the meat isle to see if they have any grass-fed organs, particularly liver, on the shelf.  I usually buy it if they do, as the only organ I have left from my deer is its heart and I'm saving that for a special occasion.  Where I live organ meats are very inexpensive, last time I bought some I think I paid a whopping $1.99 per pound. 

It was a bit surreal eating the deer's liver straight from its body.  I was sitting out in a fairly dense forest at the base of a cliff, with boulders the size of SUVs strewn everywhere.  There were patches of snow here and there, and some frost remained on the ground in shady areas.  It was cool enough that when I opened the animal to start the field dressing process, everything that I took out of the animal was steaming heavily.  I'd bet I was able to eat about a pound of the liver before I got full, and didn't want to fill up too much because dragging the animal from the forest would be a lot of work and I didn't want to start feeling tired from a heavy meal.

General Discussion / Re: organic raw eggs
« on: May 14, 2010, 09:20:39 pm »
I don't remember having any trouble when I began eating raw eggs, although I don't eat a lot.  Perhaps 3 each day.  And my eggs are fertilized.  I don't know if that makes any difference.

General Discussion / Re: What should i juice?
« on: May 14, 2010, 09:18:43 pm »
Why should you juice anything?  If you want to eat raw liver, why not just eat raw liver?

Welcoming Committee / Re: Ex-vegan newb
« on: May 05, 2010, 08:44:45 pm »
Hi Jessica, I'm also a former vegan although I can't claim to have been on the diet remotely as long as you have.  The negative consequences of being vegan emerged for me within a month, and I only last three months on the diet before I abandoned ship. 

At any rate, welcome to the forum.  There's lots of information here, and one thing you'll notice quickly is that folks who post here disagree about most everything, except the value of getting the bulk (for some all) of their calories from raw animal foods.

While most here are content viewing "Raw Paleo" as including domestic animals and plants, I am not.  I hunt, and 90 percent of the animal food I eat comes from animals I've taken.  I think the relationship we share with the origins of our food is just as important as the food's constitution (i.e. protein content, fat content, vitamins, minerals...).  I am also learning a lot about gathering wild plant foods, and have not had to purchase any plant foods in the last few weeks as spring has sprung here in Vermont and I can gather more than enough wild greens to please my palate.  Even though you live in New Jersey, I'd encourage you to start learning about the wild edibles in your area as they offer a nutrient-dense, low-cost supplement even if most of your calories come from the grocery market.

Not sure how long you've been eating raw meat, but my experience (started raw in December 2009) was that at first raw meat tasted quite bland and needed to be mixed with other things or seasoned.  Since then my taste buds have 'healed', and are now sensitive enough to notice the subtleties in taste and texture of most animal foods, making seasoning and fancy preparation unnecessary. 

Of all the health benefits I've enjoyed since starting this diet (stronger teeth, less irritated gums, brighter skin, increasing muscle mass, easier digestion...) I've found this to be the most liberating.  Before going Raw Omnivore I spent over an hour preparing food every day.  I now spend scantly minutes and feel much more nourished than ever before.  My housemate just this morning spent 35 minutes preparing and eating his breakfast which included a fancy omelette with eggs, garlic, legumes, and other things.  That's a lot of time for something you're destroying much of the nutritional value of through cooking.  I had two raw eggs (broken into a cup and drank) and a few strawberries.  Prep time was a minute total, eating time perhaps thrice that, and the results were far more nourishing.

Off Topic / Re: how do you guys feel about global future?
« on: May 03, 2010, 09:35:16 am »
Oil companies are indeed secretive, but some of us have connections and can get data. 

More importantly, though, the United States Geological Survey does global petroleum assessments using data gathered from many oil companies, and the resulting models and resource estimates are public information.  My research is based largely on these.  Since oil is a matter of national security, the USGS is well funded with regards to its petroleum assessment research, so I feel like their global resource estimates are the best available.  They also went province-by-province globally, so in addition to being publicly available their petroleum assessments by far the most thorough ever done. 

The USGS estimates that global technically recoverable "conventional" crude oil amounts to about 3 trillion barrels.  When I use this number with an empirical depletion indicator I developed based on the United States oil depletion profile, I end up forecasting that the global oil supply should have peaked sometime between 2000-2004.  Allow a little leeway for technical advances, and we're about due.  The last statistical maximum for crude oil was in July 2008, and global production's slipped a bit since then, so perhaps 2008 was the peak?  Of course, we really won't know for certain for another 30 years or so when we can look back.  Hindsight is always 20/20.

Off Topic / Re: how do you guys feel about global future?
« on: May 02, 2010, 08:28:21 pm »
Hi Kyle,

I definitely share your concerns regarding the institution of science.  In general, I think it has become just as much of a religion as Christianity or Islam these days.  Very sad.  The scientific method (create a hypothesis, design an experiment, carry out the experiment, present results, etc.) is a myth outside of a very small number of people who do highly controlled experiments on non-living materials.  Even though I'm currently pursuing a PhD in Natural Resources and use "science" all the time, I have no choice but to carry a lot of skepticism around with me, which creates a lot of tension with my dissertation committee who aren't used to having their monopoly on knowledge challenged.

As for the abiotic oil theory, the man you're referring to is Thomas Gold.  It's been demonstrated that his theories are correct regarding abiotic methane (the main constituent of natural gas), but the rate of generation is miniscule relative to our rate of use.  He's hypothesized that oil is generated abiotically through the same process, but this has never been demonstrated.  At the temperatures and pressures around the mantle, any complex hydrocarbons would almost immediately degrade to methane.  Even in Russia and the Ukraine, abiotic oil theorists represent a minority, although they are very vocal so it's easy to get the impression they are greater in number than they actually are.  I have seen no evidence to suggest that Russia or Ukraine are producing abiotic hydrocarbons, so one has to wonder if the abiotic oil theory is the result of a few academic chemists successfully isolating themselves in Russian and Ukraine ivory towers where they can't be held accountable for theories that don't hold water (or oil).

And I agree with others that Peak Oil is a real issue.  My own calculations suggest we're about due.  I'm writing up a paper that i'll submit to the journal Science in the next month or so that says as much.  It's part of my dissertation.

General Discussion / Re: Anyone here eat insects?
« on: April 30, 2010, 09:39:33 pm »
Regarding slugs, here's an article I found that addresses the parasite issue.  It seems to suggest that the parasites are mostly a problem in tropical areas.  I live (and eat) in a temperate area.

General Discussion / Re: Anyone here eat insects?
« on: April 30, 2010, 09:34:10 pm »
Interesting point regarding the slugs.  I've eaten just a few, and it was several years ago.  I ate them after reading an article in Field & Stream that said they were edible both raw and cooked.  Do you have a reference that discusses the parasites?

General Discussion / Re: Anyone here eat insects?
« on: April 30, 2010, 07:42:54 pm »
I've eaten a variety of invertebrates raw, including slugs, earthworms, maggots, ants, mayflies, and beetle larvae. 

Slugs are very spicy (at least the ones I've eaten), maggots are subtly sweet and take the taste of what they're eating (I've picked them off deer carcasses, and have 'raised' them on fish that have been filleted in summer), ants taste like lemon candy because of the formic acid in their stingers, mayflies remind me of spinach, and beetle larvae have a variety of tastes and textures depending on the species and where it's been living.  Earthworms don't have much of a taste, as I generally don't chew them, just swallow, so I don't have to bother clearing their guts of grit.

I suspect that prior to inventing projectile weapons, invertebrates--including insects--made up the majority of the animal protein that our species consumed.  Think about it, we can't run particularly fast, don't have fierce teeth or claws, so in the absence of spears or bows & arrows how would we have gotten meat?  Answer:  we wouldn't, except for the rare instances when we found a dead animal another species had killed and we manage to chase it off.  Prior to developing projectile weapons, we were probably more often the prey than the predator, except as regards invertebrates and perhaps fish.

I think our aversion to them is largely cultural.  We've spent too long as Homo domesticus, and have been socialized to ignore an enormous and free source of high quality fat and protein in favor of ruminant meats that we have to pay for (and thus participate in wage slavery to earn).  Accepting invertebrates as part of our diets is a step towards dietary freedom, in my opinion.

Suggestions on acclimating:  start by eating a live ant, perhaps a carpenter ant.  Don't try a fire ant, or an army ant, or a bullet ant if you live in tropical areas, or a velvet ant if you live in temperate regions.  Find a field guide that covers your region to learn at least the groups of ant species, and avoid the ones that give nasty stings. 

Next step might be to set aside the beetle larvae you find when gardening, or to turn over logs in the forest and pick a few from the dead wood (you'll most likely find lots).  Beetle larvae come in all shapes and sizes, and most look vaguely like caterpillars.  Crush their heads before you put them into your mouth, otherwise you risk being bitten, which doesn't hurt particularly but most people aren't used to getting bitten by food so it could put you off.  The huge grubs that African natives relish are beetle larvae.  On that note, some caterpillars are edible, but not all, and some will give you a hellish sting or are quite toxic, so be careful.  I personally have never eaten a caterpillar and don't know their taxonomy well enough to try one.

Spring, summer and fall is the time for mayflies, so if you live in temperate regions with decent water quality, this is the time to feast.  I've read that indigenous tribes in North America would go to war over mayfly harvests.  Given their seasonal abundance and pleasant taste, I see why.

Most of the invertebrates I mentioned above are largely parasite free, at least in terms of parasites that can potentially become pathogenic in people.  Learn about invertebrates first, and try ones you can find at least a few sources that claim them to be edible (besides me).

Happy trails!

Off Topic / Re: Study shows smoking lowers your IQ
« on: April 14, 2010, 08:17:52 pm »
The article took that into account...

They claimed that they took it into account, but based on the information they presented I am saying they did not.  Just because you study twins doesn't mean both individuals started with the same IQ.  They claim to rule out socioeconomics as a factor, but that doesn't mean they're left with samples of smokers and non-smokers who would otherwise have identical (on average) IQs.

Hot Topics / Re: The Vegetarian Myth
« on: April 14, 2010, 07:01:30 am »
Thanks for your thoughts Paleodonk.  I've been doing a little more searching and just found out that while Lierre Kieth was lecturing on her book on California last month three vegan men who didn't like her message hit her in the face with cream pies that were heavily spiked with cayenne pepper.  Burned her eyes pretty bad, I guess.  Ironically enough, they did the deed while she was ripping on factory farming...

One thing I've noticed since going mostly raw is that my tastes have changed.  If you're used to eating intensely sweet, processed foods, then yes dandelions are horrible.  But if you stop eating intensely sweet, processed foods for awhile your tastes will probably moderate, and foods that were previously unbearably bitter will taste fine.  I love dandelions.  Here in Vermont things are just starting to get green, and I imagine it's about time to start walking along the edges of a few organic farms nearby and harvesting vast quantities of one of North America's premier survival foods (dandelions). 

While I do enjoy the taste of raw meat, particularly organ meats like liver, I can't say I enjoy it more than eating plant foods.  Probably the only summer green I enjoy more than dandelion is lambs quarters.  And then there's purslane... 

Food for thought...

If you're limiting yourself to buying meat, then certainly eating a raw paleo diet will be very expensive.  Doubly so if you limit yourself to grass-fed meats, and trebly-so if you limit yourself to gourmet domestic game animals like bison.  Hunting helps to lower costs a lot, and learning your wild edible and medicinal plants helps even more.

Off Topic / Re: Study shows smoking lowers your IQ
« on: April 14, 2010, 12:40:17 am »
While the article you linked to claims that smoking lowers people's IQ, another way of interpreting the data is that people who naturally have lower IQ tend to smoke.  In order to demonstrate that smoking reduces someone's IQ, they'd have to get two groups of non-smokers who have identical IQs (on average), and have one group start smoking. 

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm not convinced smoking lowers people's IQ.  Just that there's some self-selection involved, and that dumb people take up the habit in the first place.

One big issue that I think you're missing is how vegetables are grown and how that influences mineral content. 

Vegetables grown in depleted soil will be mineral deficient, no matter what type of vegetable they are.  Most of the vegetables you buy at the grocery store--even organic ones--have been grown on land that is probably quite depleted of its minerals.  Hence, most commercially available vegetables are deficient.

Wild plants are generally more mineral dense.  Meat is mineral dense because animals concentrate minerals through eating lots of whatever plants or other animals, and retaining some of the minerals in their various tissues.

If you are mineral deficient, I'd recommend incorporating wild foods into your diet, particularly animal foods.

Hot Topics / The Vegetarian Myth
« on: April 14, 2010, 12:29:20 am »
This book was published last year.  I just received it and haven't read it yet, and wonder if others have and what they thought.  Author is Lierre Kieth.  She was a vegan for 20 years before she apparently gave it up for health and ethical reasons.  The back cover of the book has a review from someone at The Weston Price Foundation.

General Discussion / Re: Pros & Cons Vegetable Juicing
« on: April 13, 2010, 10:57:24 pm »
Another side of the juicing question is whether we want to become dependent on machines to allow us to maintain our chosen diet.  

When I went raw last December, I planned on buying one of the fancy food processors (Vita-Mix) and a juicer so I could make all sorts of fancy raw food.  Within a week of starting my largely raw diet (above 80%) my tastes began to noticeably change, and the formerly bland foods that I needed to mix into a smoothy, juice, or make into sushi to eat started tasting distinctive and pleasant enough that I could eat them on their own, with no adulteration.  

Now, a few months later, not only have I never bought the Vita-Mix or juicer, I have also gotten rid of all my food-processing machines and rarely buy anything processed.  I just don't have a taste for processed foods anymore, and don't see any benefit to juicing or smoothies over eating the unprocessed ingredients individually provided you chew your vegetable foods well.  

The only food processors I own are a sharp chef's knife and my teeth.

General Discussion / Re: wild game
« on: April 13, 2010, 10:46:20 pm »
Hi Nicole.  Laws vary throughout the US as to whether hunters can sell there meat.  Here in Vermont, I believe, hunters are allowed to sell the meat from their takes for a period of something like 20 days after the season ends.  There are a lot of details that go along with this, but I wouldn't sell my take as I want to eat it so I haven't investigated it further.  I hunt deer primarily, but put in for a moose permit each year and hunt small game as opportunities permit.  I also hunt with wooden bow and arrow using steel broadheads, so I don't have to worry about lead issues.

You can often buy domesticated game animals from game ranches, like deer, elk, bison, and sometimes other things.  I don't know where you live, but I'd bet you have a game ranch within driving distance as they're almost everywhere these days.  "Game" meat has a much higher market value than cows, pigs, etc., and game animals require less upkeep, so the profit margins are much better.  Game animals don't take well to feedlot-style animal propagation, though, so pretty much need to be free-ranging.

General Discussion / Re: What about apple cider vinegar?
« on: April 13, 2010, 10:37:40 pm »
I've used it to good effect when I caught a stomach bug, and others recommend it for gastrointestinal parasites.  I like it for its medicinal value, but it's not something I consume on a regular basis.

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