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Messages - Dorothy

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Thanks so much everyone for chiming in on your favorite cuts! It's majorly helpful.

HIT you said: In fact I think most her focus even more on the raw than on the paleo aspects of the diet.

You're right about that for myself. It wasn't until I could get good raw eggs that I started eating them - they do me good when cooked eggs just aren't the same and when it came to dairy I was researching a cancer cure for my dog and learned about Budwig. They said that in the US they use regular cottage cheese. Well, my dogs eat all raw so I figured I'd try the cottage cheese mixed with flax on myself and boy did it make me feel sick. But then when I got good raw milk and fermented it correctly it was just fine for me. When it comes to me I'm assuming just like with all other foods - that I will be better off if I eat it raw. If I have to stay strong enough and not get sick so that I can keep on helping my husband then I might be better off seeing if I can figure out ways that both of us can do it together and jump hand-in-hand into eating the good meats - me staying well by not eating cooked stuff and him being able to handle the idea and him NOT being a raw foodist like me he might detox more and be more sensitive.

I think TO because he knows more about me and my husband, realizes that I might have chosen to gradate him into raw meat more gradually. So far I've learned ways to make him feel more secure about raw fish by using whey and citrus and have gotten him to eat raw eggs by using them in sauces - unlike me who just eats the yolks out of my palm.

My husband is an amazing chef  and I'e been slowly talking him into cooking better grass-fed meats for himself. This is a big shift me doing it with him now.... and a big shift in that I think he needs to just leap into raw foods for the sake of his health faster than I would have subtly tried to convince him of before.

I'm very respectful of other people's choices of food for themselves. Me being willing to eat steak after 20 years just for him made a major impression as you can imagine and if I'm willing to do that - he is willing to try a lot for me. So, raw meat it is going to be for the both of us now because I am convinced that he needs lots of excellent raw fats!

The only exception is that I might try a long slow cooking bone stock for him until I can get him to eat just plain bone marrow. He might have to watch me eat bone marrow for a while before he's willing to try it - but I think he needs those minerals now.

Bison is spectacular, my absolute favorite red meat hands down.  Here's a quick rundown on bovine cuts.  I would probably stick to this list.  Anything outside runs the risk of a very dry, tough, lean, or unappetizing cut.  As a rule on any animal the muscle that gets worked the least is the most tender (tenderloin usually), and any muscle that gets worked a lot is tough.  Tougher cuts of meat are also the most flavorful by far.

  Chuck Roast / Tri-tip - I already told you about this.

  Tenderloin / Filet Mignon- Extremely lean but extremely tender.  Not much flavor.  Unless paired with a strong sauce I would forget it.

  Strip steak - Extremely tender, fatty, cooks tender, and has tons of flavor.  In terms of asthetics my favorite cut.  Premium though.

  Porterhouse / T-bone - The only difference between these two are the size of the "good section".  This steak is 2 steaks in 1 ; a strip steak and a filet mignon.  Good compromise between tender and flavor.  Cooks tender.

  Flat Iron - Very fatty,tender, and flavorful.  Best used eaten raw -> medium rare.  

  Brisket - Generally only suitable for slow cooking, braising, or super quick frying.  Can get dry quite easily.

  Skirt steak - Extremely fatty and flavorful.  Meltingly tender if raw or quick seared but very tough if cooked well done.

  Cheek meat - Unbelievable flavor but tough.  Only suitable for braising.  One of the best cuts of meat to braise.  Lots of collagen in there too!!

  SHORT ribs (has to be "short") - Extremely fatty and flavorful but pretty tough.  Do not mistake for just plain ol "beef ribs".  It's a good cut if you don't mind gnawing on meat like a dog lol.  Extremely good braised.

  Shank - Mildly tough raw yet good flavorful.  Not particularly fatty at all.  Good for braising.

  For a staple cut I use chuck roast or a decently priced skirt steak.  For a premium tender cut choose the strip steak / strip loin or porterhouse.  

  I personally think the chuck roast, cheek, and short ribs are only cuts worth braising.  

Just what I needed!
OK - I should get for eating raw and not cooking (I think I want to skip it and go straight to raw never having cooked meat before):

Strip steak
Strip loin
And also good are:
Flat Iron
Skirt steak

I will memorize this list! THANK YOU!

"At work I can smell when the guy in the next office out of my sight gets a cup of French vanilla coffee"

Ah - Phil, I remember when all raw for awhile I smelt a grapefruit that had fallen and broken 3 blocks away when walking in NYC!

I hear ya, I hear ya! It's about the quality. I gotta get grasfed and use my sniffer! Will do, will do. Thanks!

On a similar note I made my butter yesterday and there was an incredible smell of PLASTIC coming out of my food processor. Weird. I made my milkshake and it was awful.  -\  Then I made my dog her's and she wouldn't eat it! I realized duh! that's the first time I left the milk in the fridge for a couple of days before making the quark in the plastic bottles instead of putting it directly into my "cauldron" for fermentation.

I'm not sure I'm going to be able to eat the stuff.  :(

I'll use the snoz!

  Dorothy - What does your husband normally eat that pan-seared would be tough enough that it lost its appeal??  Maybe it was the cut of meat???  There are a few cuts of beef that are too tough to be enjoyable raw and are only enjoyable if eaten braised. 

  Lex Rooker, an iconic raw carnivore who comes from one of the greatest health challenges that I've ever read about, doesn't really notice much of a difference between lightly seared meats and raw.

  I personally don't notice much of a difference between raw and medium-rare beef.  Raw meat is awfully hydrating though and for that reason alone I find raw meats very desirable. 

  On a cow the best value cut IMO is the Chuck Roast.  Best value for the most fat, tenderness, flavor, and price.  On a lamb the best value cut is the shoulder.  Amazing marbeling, as tender as any beef tenderloin, great flavor and great price.  Fyi =]


I have a feeling that you were right TO and that it was just not a good cut - I wasn't used to buying meat. I have to learn all about cuts. The man at the farmer's market told me that it was really great and I believed him - and now I can't even remember what on earth it was!  I'm going to get myself a little notebook to take to the farmer's market with me and take notes on vendors and cuts etc. and how we like them. This is a totally new area of knowledge that I have no experience in and that I do not even know the language of. The first thing to go in my notebook is your suggestions on cuts.

What about bison raw? There are a few really good bison ranches. Shape Ranch in San Antonio has these things on its brochure that are so cool. They let the bison live with minimal interference on native grasses and don't wean or take the calves away so that the bison have a secure herd and the animals are field harvested. They come to the farmer's market I go to and I got hubbie some bison before and he liked it - so time to try it raw. They say that it's real important not to cook bison too much - so it might be really good raw. Bison are what our ancient ancestors were eating - unlike the cows that have been so changed from the even recent past. What bison part do you think we should try?

I saw a program on ground meat on television that made me have nightmares without ever eating it! They showed how ground meat came from all different animals and because that would be a breeding ground for bacteria because if only one cow was sick all the ground beef would be contaminated they would soak it all of it in ammonia!  -v

Of course getting it from a vendor you know and trust and if you see them grind it right in front of you would be different I would think - but there's no way I'm eating ammonia soaked anything.

   Seared like you did it I'd get an arthritis-like attack and other inflammation.  Every person is different.

I thought that pan-seared might be easiest for my husband to adjust to, but now I'm not so sure. I mean it was the closest to what he normally ate - yet it was different enough and tough enough that it wasn't exactly appealing to him.

Ground meat from the store - no way! No wonder you had nightmares.

I'm thinking that what I need to do is get my husband into ideas for sauces. He's a master at making sauces.

General Discussion / Re: Homemade Oyster Sauce??
« on: July 22, 2011, 03:15:26 am »
Hey Rawzi - in your day did they have the great honor that they do now... did they have a war section where they declared others enemies and got together to figure out plans of attack? It's apparently truly the greatest honor because only the best, kindest, smartest people seem to get on the list and get quoted and talked about. Can you imagine someone eating eggs from their pet hens?! Oh so cruel, barbaric, horrendous! Then - to use raw milk from kindly-treated grass-fed cows to do the Budwig protocol to heal cancer - such a crime!

Did I just make that up too? Can't trust anything those egg-eaters say!

General Discussion / Re: Thoughts of the Day.........
« on: July 21, 2011, 12:23:05 pm »
Ha ha - the sandwiches - of course. But one doesn't get arrested for eating sandwiches in NYC!  :D 

I lived in Florida too - and where I was there was like not ONE homeless person - not a single itty bitty ONE. I did some volunteer work for the "needy" and it seemed like it would be considered a "lovely neighborhood" in NY. I thought to myself that if every person in NY knew that all the homeless were put near the ocean in great housing and taken care of by the churches they would be walking there asap!   But then again - like you said - if they were hanging out with Steve and eating raw pigeons and rats - they were probably better off in NYC!

The hawks are cool aren't they? Hawks living high up on the tallest buildings and hunting pigeons. It's fun to think of the wildlife and nature of Manhattan. 

I don't know how I missed it - but I just found Tyler's stickies for newbies.

How generous and kind to do all that work and post it for us! Thank you Tyler.  :)

General Discussion / Re: Thoughts of the Day.........
« on: July 21, 2011, 07:58:59 am »
Don't laugh too hard. There have been a good many homeless that have lived off of rats and pigeons in NY.  :o 
And Wildman Steve Brill lives off the greens in Central Park!

General Discussion / Re: Thoughts of the Day.........
« on: July 21, 2011, 07:27:57 am »
pOwer you make a very good point. I've seen so many new things come and go that are considered to be vital to health - new discoveries all the time. The opposite of that is true though and there are lots of people that have gone decades upon decades being fine on vegan or vegetarian diet (and according to Gabriel Cousens whole cultures) - so - what I keep on returning to in my mind is that we might not all be the same. Maybe in the old, old, old days some of the gatherers didn't share as much of what they got because that meat looked so stanky. They would eat one berry and put one in the basket to share; eat two berries and put one in the basket to take back to the hunters etc. Some of the hunters might have been chewing as they walked home so they wouldn't have to eat so many of those darn berries - I mean after all they just chased down an animal - the were probably HUNGRY! Some people might have eaten much more meat and others many more berries. Maybe that's why there are even cartoons with a man with a big steak with just a piece of parsley on top and a woman with a salad glowering at the man's steak in disapproval. What IS pretty new though I would think is the idea to completely exclude entire food groups. That's what I've been thinking about lately anyway.

Maybe the gatherers thought more of themselves as rodents.... I link myself to the bunny and my husband links himself to the bear energy etc. There are people on the vegetarian sites that adore rats and link themselves to that energy. The ones that went a hunting are the wolves and the tigers..... and this place is filled with hunters! 

But maybe I should be careful saying that I'm a bunny here. I mean - Paleophil and Tsurugi Oni and all the other hunters have been very kind to me so I'm assuming the rest of you might be cool having a bunny hanging out in the wolf pack? 

General Discussion / Re: Thoughts of the Day.........
« on: July 21, 2011, 04:55:15 am »
Hi KD - Let's just hope I've been a decent tight rope walker even though I'm afraid of heights. Brain damage - eeks! lol.

See - I wrote KD instead of Cherimoya - I has to be brain damage! On nooooooooo.  :D

General Discussion / Re: Thoughts of the Day.........
« on: July 21, 2011, 04:35:05 am »
Hi KD - Let's just hope I've been a decent tight rope walker even though I'm afraid of heights. Brain damage - eeks! lol.

One of the things that I appreciate about being human is that we don't always make decisions based on our own needs - even our own health or survival. And I agree - I have noticed so much denial. When vegans say that dogs are better off vegan it blows my mind. What is that about? I think they really want dogs but can't deal with meat so try to make dogs into vegans skewing logic any way they can.  I say -  Get a bird instead!

  No way!!!    ;D 

  Ohh I wonder the outcome!

Ha ha ha. Yes way.

But then TO - you have had a tremendous influence on me. You have no idea how you have changed my thinking with your persistent darn logic! Ecology and agriculture and all your arguments you devil.  -d  Talking to so many vegans and vegetarians who were so incredibly self-righteous and judgmental of others had its effects over time too. When the people that are being the least violent, hostile and angry towards other people and are the most stable are eating raw meat it can make a big impression. I became slowly convinced that maybe all the benefits came from the other things that people were not eating - and perhaps had nothing to do with meat in general itself - if eaten in it's natural raw form. I watched many people start or continue to do all raw vegan or fruitarian over time talking and watched the changes. It was a bit shocking. I'm still not convinced that I in particular need to eat meat, but, I also wonder the outcome! I've gotten curious and this thing with the  hubbie as the massive push - will also satisfy a curiosity. I want to know how it will affect my energy, my emotions and my spiritual work. I might not need it to feel good or even great - but will it effect me badly in any way? 

General Discussion / Re: Thoughts of the Day.........
« on: July 21, 2011, 12:56:33 am »
Ah TO - the old questions. How do you know that pandas eat bamboo? Because we have seen them doing this in the wild. I don't know if any zoo has ever tried to raise a panda on anything except for bamboo. If you put dogs and cats for generations in the wild, they will gravitate primarily to certain foods. Dogs in the wild mostly kill other animals to eat. Yes, both dogs and cats can survive on modern pet foods and live for a long time that include many things besides flesh foods. Dogs that eat lots of grains often end up with enlarged hearts and stones. I healed a rescue dog up from this with a raw meat diet.

Take any a dog (who has experienced raw meat) and put a piece of raw liver on one paper plate and a piece of fruit on the other plate and let the dog choose, the liver would be gone, probably along with the paper plate it was on, before the fruit was touched and the fruit might never get touched at all unless the dog was starving.... and yet.... some rare dogs will go for the fruit first. 

With humans it is very different. Society, supermarkets, complex emotional and intellectual processes around food. The best that can be done is to put those two plates in front of you and try to let go the best you can and try to feel which raw platter your body wants. If you can't do that, and you are too socialized and un-in-touch, then you have to figure it out the same way you would if you were logically trying to figure out what the natural diet of a dog is. See if you can find any humans in the wild to observe. The best thing in my opinion, is to be able to get in touch with the place inside of yourself that just knows which plate it wants - like the dog. For humans it is more complex, because we have thoughts about the food on how it will make us feel not only physically, but emotionally and spiritually as well. Put raw meat one of the plates you are choosing from and some people (always - having experienced it first so they know it food and how it makes them feel) will not want the meat and others will feel drawn to it. But if you can't sense which one your body needs without all your social conditioning - then there are dudes like Weston A. Price etc. to help you to try to figure it out. Sometimes we just have to get cleared out of our old patterns long enough.

Of course - the key point is that it would have to be raw. No other animal cooks. Cooking changes the whole thing. It's just too hard to figure out what you would be grabbing and eating generally in the wild when you bring cooking into the equation. I'm not judging cooking in any way - just putting forth - that if you want a baseline of what basic food groups your species and your own body is drawn the most to - cooking will gum up the experiment.

General Discussion / Re: Homemade Oyster Sauce??
« on: July 20, 2011, 09:37:33 am »
Dorothy, for info that might help your husband and/or teach you some things about meat, one thing I recommend is reading Lex Rooker's journal in the journals section. Good luck to you and your husband both.'s-journal/msg1068/#msg1068

You read my mind Phil. My next question was what was the first best thing to read. I thank you deeply for that direction and the good wishes.

So we have little way of knowing how you'll be affected in the short term, so maybe start out slow and don't panic if things don't go swimmingly at first?

Well, so far so good Phil. I felt better from the steak than I do from any processed food. So far better to eat a raw steak than to eat say a vegetarian burrito (even without the beans). :)  We will eat any carbos first and wait awhile at least just for the beginning until we have things down and know that it isn't an issue... and I promise not to do one of those: "but I tried it for lunch and it didn't make me feel good so it must be all bad" moronic dances for you.

I've noticed that the more successful dieters tend to eat either low carb with moderate to high fat or high carb with relatively low fat, but there are exceptions in between, of course.

That's interesting. The whole 80/10/10 folks being super thin even with lots of calories. My problem is that I could never figure out what high fat was if we're not talking eating mostly suet. I mean, I would think that I was eating TONS of raw fat with my butter and avocados and eggs and milkshakes and seeds and then I would go out to a restaurant and see deep fried cheese, covered in cream, wrapped in fat fried coating with a fried egg on top - all dripping and think to myself - compared to what most Americans eat my high fat raw diet is chicken feed.   

But I never care two hoots about my size. If I feel good, I am good - and I pretty much always feel good.  -d

Thank you Tyler. That was very useful information. You say that plant foods and meat need different enzymes and bacteria. Does this mean that I should not eat raw greens with my steak in the future? Do you eat only meat at one meal?

That's right, the highest up on the food chain I've eaten for the last 20 years has been raw fish - and extremely infrequently at that - and not large servings and I have gone a decade without it and then the other 10 years I could go many months without it. I've been eating raw eggs regularly for a year or two now - because I got my own chickens so trust the quality.

As I re-introduce meat into my generally raw diet, what should I expect? My stomach is now making some pretty outrageous sounds that I haven't heard in a very very long time. Is that normal?

Has anyone else here done similar or can guess what might happen?

I am very healthy so no issues there to consider.

My first meat meal was lightly seared steak.

Are there things that are easier to start with that you can suggest for me?

Btw, I don't want to eat animal species that live with us - dog, cat, rabbit, chickens. Not that most people eat dog or cat - but it is common in other cultures. I am willing to eat insects if I can figure out ways to prepare them that I can tolerate. I understand that they are very healthy to consume and I have raised many of them to feed pets.

Thanks in advance for any help/advice you can give me.

General Discussion / Re: Homemade Oyster Sauce??
« on: July 20, 2011, 02:24:42 am »
Ah - RawZi - they no longer think that we are the same people at all. I let someone come and stay with me from there, so they know I'm different - but that person lied and stole and I and tried to take as much advantage of my husband and I as she could. :(  When we asked that person to leave (this was a long time ago) the person was respectful enough to not say a word on gitmr - they disappeared completely. Well, they just came back, I most stupidly said that they were what they were, and now I am not RawZi, I am a liar. I erased myself completely because I made myself way too vulnerable there with way too much personal information and with the return - I needed to leave for my own self-preservation.

You got booted off RawZi for eating meat...... and a group of fruit eaters decided to make sure that the whole nasty, dirty old experience had to stay in the fore-front so that I (the egg eater) had no option but to leave. I was just too vulnerable and understood the dangers to me in my real life.

Do you want to hear the most ironic thing of all Zi?

I just now, for lunch, with my husband, ate the very first of meat that I have had in 20 years! We both shared our first off the charts rare pan seared steak together. I just got some news yesterday about my husband's health that made me know that it was vital for him to improve his diet big time - now. After what I learned from Phil on gitmr and how I saw raw meat help my mother - I know how powerful it can be. I haven't desired it, don't feel like I need it, but it aint going to hurt me - and you better believe that I would kill a cow for my husband. I'd kill even myself for him if I thought it would help him. I figure that if I am going to really figure it out, learn about meat and prepare it for him, and for him to have the support that he needs - I need to eat.

I'm still not sure I should even keep my account open here under my real name Dorothy and where people from there can find me and maybe my email address. So, if I disappear, look for me as some meat eating paleo woman - not the old hard-core vegetarian that you once knew.

General Discussion / Re: Homemade Oyster Sauce??
« on: July 18, 2011, 12:22:48 pm »
Thank you dearest PaleoPhil!

You know that you have helped me and my Mom and my husband more than I can say on gitmr. For me, eating raw of any kind is good for me and I feel strong pretty much on any whole food diet - but raw makes me feel stupendous. I have seen how no one diet is perfect for everyone and how much intolerance there can be. I didn't expect it after being into raw foods for about 3 decades on my own without much contact with anyone else into raw foods - but so far the least intolerance, most generosity and the most steady intelligence and good will and logic, to me, have been from people that eat omnivorously even if I don't.

I was flabbergasted Phil when you told me that the way that I eat - whole raw foods and lots of fermented foods actually made me paleo as long as it is right for me and makes me strong even if it doesn't include birds or mammals. I am working hard to learn more so that my husband who is carnivorous can be more healthy too as you know. So I'm very glad that you told me about this place. RawZi and I lost contact when another forum went down and I am absolutely delighted that I will get to spend time with her again.

I can see why some people might be intimidated. If this diet can include anything raw and natural that makes you feel really good - then there is no wonder. There is nothing that can compete. The vilification of the human race and any whole, natural food that people need to eat to feel good, makes no sense to me and if people feel sickly and there is no room for them to get the nutrients that they need within that system, eventually people will figure it out and leave no matter how much indoctrination.

Gitmr pretty much became the pick PaleoPhil and Tsurugi Oni's brains forum for me. I'm hoping there are some more good brains to go a picking from here as well - albeit those are some pretty tough brains to beat.  ;)

General Discussion / Re: Homemade Oyster Sauce??
« on: July 17, 2011, 12:32:35 pm »
Txurugi Oni, RawZi - two of my most favorite people on the planet from other places far far away. Love and grand amounts of light to you two of the most beautiful of beings! I've missed you so much RawZi - my alter ego.

This is my first post here btw. Greetings and Salutations to all. 

TO - what a grand idea to ferment oysters. We do not like those slimy thangs but oyster sauce sounds like such a fabulous idea. I mean, put enough garlic on anything and it is going to taste yummy right? Put it in a blender and it is no longer, slimy, it's thick and rich right?

Oysters are so easy to get raw almost any where. What do you like to put oyster sauce on???

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