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Messages - TylerDurden

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General Discussion / Re: Protein and fat digestion
« on: May 29, 2008, 08:34:07 pm »
Cramps can be a sign of magnesium deficiency. You might want to see if eating raw pumpkin seeds does the trick. Of course, avoiding dairy helps too, given the excess calcium in it.

I truly envy your job. It seems the only people who have it easy on this diet are farmers, butchers and the like, as they are much closer to the food-source. Here in the UK< draconian restrictions forced through by the government and the EU really restrict our freedom of choice as regards obtaining the right foods.

General Discussion / Re: Protein and fat digestion
« on: May 29, 2008, 08:04:16 pm »

I have been eating all tough, connective gristle; swallowing all parts of the leg of mutton - like you claim to do. You say that this gets digested? I find it adds to the stool - like fiber!!!

Some of the suet goes threw as well. I wonder how many carnivores eat other tough meat than beef (one can eat tender meat and say this diet works - eat soft fat and say it all gets digested...).

We live from what get's digested and not from what adds to the stool - perhaps raw carnivores don't put on weight because of this?

What about cramps in the foot (I have a very little one some times in bed) - does this ever happen to others? Salt does not seem to help digest or perhaps this needs a long time to happen? Perhaps I am to alkaline (this water I am drinking?).

I feel eating all the tough is extra work for the body - my weight is kind of a bit down.

We need to talk about other meat and parts of animals - beef does not give a clear picture.


If the suet you're getting doesn't work, then either buy suet from a different (grassfed) source, or buy different kinds of fat, such as marrow. I've never had any problems with marrow. And you don't have to eat all the gristle if you don't want to.

Display Your Culinary Creations / Re: Satya's Salsa!
« on: May 29, 2008, 05:30:15 am »
Thank you Kyle.  I live on a couple acres in  this town that should be named Wild Kingdom, TX.  When we moved in, the house came with a mama cat and 4 kittens.  These were somewhat wild cats and it took weeks to get them in the house, etc.  We lost all but 1 of them over the last 6 years to dogs, coyotes and - get this - barn owls!  Yes, barn owls are grown bigger and better in TX, and they can and do nab 15 lb tom cats!  We have also adopted many stray cats over our time here, and some of those have been taken.  Neighbors lose them too.  We learned about 3 years ago to really be sure to keep them inside at night.  We also once had a rat snake up in our birdhouse full of bluebirds - so much for all the chicks.  We now have 3 cats, a dog, some fish and some hens.

I hope you leave the wildlife alone. I mean, they're just carrying out their natural function.(Sorry to get het up about this, it's just that I used to live with farmers' sons who would refer to various wildlife as vermin and "pests".

General Discussion / Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« on: May 29, 2008, 05:28:29 am »
Finns consume a lot of dairy, more so than most other European countries, so it would be interesting to see if they are as tall as other Scandinavians.

General Discussion / Re: Protein and fat digestion
« on: May 29, 2008, 04:18:28 am »
Why is your digestion perfect ???? Why is AV against salt? Why does he recommend grain fed meat? I don't get the storey!

By the way, Nicola, I should make a correction. It seems that Aajonus is,  at least, these days, not in favour of grainfed meat as such. I checked with the Primal Diet Yahoo Group, and one of them who actually knows Aajonus informed me that Aajonus had told them that  he views grassfed organic raw meat as being the best meat with raw grainfed meat coming a distant second, with anything cooked, regardless of whether it's grassfed or grainfed, being considered as  something to be avoided. So he doesn't recommend raw grainfed meat as such, it's just that he views it as better than cooked meat.

Instincto / Anopsology / Re: Instincto Books
« on: May 29, 2008, 04:04:08 am »
I had no idea that Bruno Comby no longer eats raw. I'd heard that he was one of the few Instinctos to recommend raw meats. Seems odd that he's still selling those books if he's no longer practising what he preaches.

Good to see a Frenchman on the boards, by the way. When I first had a look at the raw-animal-food forums out there, years ago, I was somewhat disconcerted to find so few non-Americans doing RAF.

Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach / Re: Oysters are terrific !!!!
« on: May 29, 2008, 04:01:36 am »
I ate some oysters today and I must say that it gives  me a tremendous energy for the all day!
I didn't eat oysters for 3 months and my body was probably in need for some "marine" micronutrients.
Eating oysters is like eating an entire animal, which is a real whole food, contrary to muscles or even organs.

It also makes me think that variety is very important, even on a carnivorous diet.

I agree - if one is eating raw, whole, wildcaught oysters then it makes up for the fact that we are usually unable to eat all the parts of the entire carcass of ruminants like sheep or goats. I still hope that one day, I will end up in some enlightened country where one can buy brains or eyeballs for dinner without being considered strange - such countries do still exist.

General Discussion / Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« on: May 29, 2008, 12:10:18 am »
Scandinavians are all generally tall -the only exception would be the (non-ethnic-Swedish) peoples living in Finland, as they only recently emigrated to Scandinavia(by comparison to other groups) - no idea how tall they are.

General Discussion / Re: what are you reading?
« on: May 29, 2008, 12:06:43 am »
I bought War of the Worlds yesterday and another Niven book.  Thanks for the suggestion.  Do you ever read Issac Asimov?  I used his biography of science book (forget the title offhand) for a history of science course this year.  I have heard good things about his work.  I have a collection of his short stories, but haven't read them yet.

Isaac Asimov is OK, but I should mention that most of his SF work is more oriented towards children, rather than adults. A lot of his plots are a bit repetitive as well. Still, as a mere intro to SF, they are certainly far better than Arthur C Clarke's stories and books.

General Discussion / Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« on: May 28, 2008, 09:52:35 pm »
The average heights for modern humans include the elderly and middleaged generations - who were not raised on extremely high GI diets plus milk pumped full of artificial growth hormones (which as well as increasing height are causing girls to start puberty at 8 or 9).  I've no doubt that a paleo diet would make people taller than the diet my grandparents were raised on.  But I don't believe they would grow as tall as generation X.

You're  forgetting that the elderly were , indeed, raised on high-GI diets(especially during the war(eg:- potatoes/rice) years and for some years afterwards, due to rationing etc.)Plus, many of my immediate ancestors were raised on diets high in dairy(much of it  raw in rural areas), but did not  gain  vast increases in height as a result(by comparison to their immediate ancestors).

As for girls increasing in height, that is usually linked to pesticides and other substances similiar in chemical form to human hormones, not to dairy, raw or otherwise.

So, IMO, the supposed link between dairy and height, still doesn't explain why Palaeo peoples are much taller than modern humans.'s been pointed out that the only reason why the US average height has decreased, vis-a-vis the Dutch, is because of increased immigration of shorter-than-average immigrants.

Another major point to consider is that Neolithic peoples dramatically shrunk in terms of average height as soon as they went in for fermented grains and raw dairy instead of meats/organ-meats, thus indicating very  strongly that raw dairy could not possibly be responsible for an ncrease in height - if it were, one would expect the raw dairy to negate the negative effects of the fermented grains to a large extent, which is clearly not the case.

Instincto / Anopsology / Instincto Books
« on: May 28, 2008, 08:38:08 pm »
For those interested, here's a couple of books("Raw Food Nutrition" and "Maximize Immunity") both by Bruno Comby, who advocates an Instincto-type  Raw Diet. This man usually advocates a diet richer in raw animal foods than most Instincto practitioners. Here is a link to both books:-


Primal Diet / Re: Aajonus' views on meat
« on: May 28, 2008, 05:30:37 pm »
i havent read the "primal books" in a few years but i think i remember Aajonus making no distinctions between conventional supermarket meat and organic grass-fed meat. i did , and still do disagree and find it kinda weird that he would hold factory farmed meat to the same quality standard as grass-fed free-range meat.
does anyone know if hes changed his opinion on this?

He has made this claim elsewhere, but not in his books. Aajonus is of the view, that superior nutrion of meats is less important than the issue of cooking - so, given the choice between the two, he would be against lightly-cooked grassfed meat but in favour of raw, grainfed meat. Also, he may just be being practical as some Primal Dieters might not have access to grassfed meats or feel they couldn't afford it. Anyway, my experience is that Aajonus is dead wrong to minimise the issue of high-quality nutrients in meats, plus, even though grassfed meats are more expensive, I've found that I do better, healthwise  with smaller amounts of high-quality grassfed meats, than lots of grainfed meats - as longas I don't overeat, then I can usually reduce my food-budget considerably.

I have a standing order from a butcher, all the organs and suet for $30. Its for my dog ;) I have way too much for one person but I'm not saying anything because I'm so happy to have such a great deal.

I didn't know what suet was when I started the diet, I originally thought it was some sort of organ! then I thought it was just the fat around the muscle and ordered some of that, I couldn't swallow it and nearly choked. I gave up on suet really and Jeff (tylerdurden) had mentioned it wasn't very nice anyway.

I have since perservered because marrow was such a pain, all those massive bones for a tiny bit of fat. I worked out the marrow was costing me around $60 a kilo.

All suet is not the same, some is quite revolting and makes me feel ill, I can tell now by looking at it and the suet I get now is 95% tasty and healthy!

Suet is the fat around the kidneys, softer than muscle fat harder than marrow.


(Just for the record, my name is spelt "Geoff"! "Jeff" is a horrible americanisation of my name).

Re marrow:- I had problems in the past re getting all the bones and too little marrow. This was because they assumed that it was meant as dog-food, and they figured that dogs don't complain. I solved that by asking specifically for only those bones with the most marrow in them, and insisting that they cut up the marrow-bones into chunks less than 6 inches long(I pay roughly  1.50 UK pounds a kilo of marrow(including the weight of the bone )

Health / Re: Testimonial
« on: May 28, 2008, 05:19:36 pm »
I'll look into doing more photos of myself this summer, as well.

General Discussion / Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« on: May 27, 2008, 04:40:00 pm »
I think being raised on a paleo diet would make most people shorter - insulin is a growth hormone, and eating high GI processed food like white bread, sugary cereals, and potato fries releases much more insulin, hence people grow taller.  This is why the latest generation is taller than their parents.  Along with all the growth hormones in milk.  If you're eating a paleo diet with no milk past weaning and all low GI foods (except fruit which still can't compete with junk food in the GI charts) then you're not going to grow as tall.  Children who were small for their age on a standard diet would probably grow taller on a paleo diet due to the high level of nutrients, and curing any health problems, and so would end up average height.  However I don't think anyone would grow "tall".  Stoneage people were around 5'5" (women) and 5'9" (men).  They were taller than the early farmers (eating wholegrains so also on low gi diets, which contained far less nutrients) but they weren't tall by modern standards. 

Didn't Weston Price discover that people on traditional diets were broader and shorter, and refined grains and sugar produced people with thinner skeletons who were taller?  The former tended to be all the same height and shape, whereas the latter were all different.  Pottenger's cats also, showed uniformity in size in the healthy group, while the unhealthy group were all different and tended to have overly long back legs. 

Loren Cordain encourages his children to eat potatoes, dried fruit and yams, so as not to disadvantage them heightwise in our modern society, even though he says high glyceamic diets in childhood also increase risk of heart disease in adulthood.

I don't know where you got this information but it's dead wrong! Here's a link showing that we've only recently regained most of the height we lost in the Neolithic, and, even then our average height is less than that of our Palaeolithic ancestors. According to this standard chart:-

modern humans' average height for males is 5ft 8.6 inches, with modern women averaging 5ft 4.3 inches, with our Palaeo male ancestors averaging 5 ft 9.7 inches, and Palaeolithic women averaging 5ft 5.6 inches. This is even more impressive when you consider that the above statistics for "modern humans" refers only to the average height of US Whites in the 80s - if the average figures for modern humans also included the heights of Chinese and other shorter-than-average peoples, then the difference in height between Palaeo humans and the shorter modern humans becomes far  more impressive.

As for why we are not as short as in the Neolithic, I think that's primarily due to stuffing ourselves with nutrients, thus making it much less likely that we end up with stunted growth due to malnutrition. Now, our Palaeolithic ancestors had to constantly contend with famine conditions whenever their food-supply temporarily ran out, so, IMO, it's extremely likely that our Palaeolithic ancestors would have had an even taller average height if they had had a plentiful food-supply.

Re Weston-Price:- Quite a number of the groups he studied were actually pretty tall(eg:- the Masai). I think the only ones who were short were grain-eaters, and the like.

General Discussion / Re: Salt and water retention
« on: May 27, 2008, 04:25:51 pm »
It's almost certainly due to water-retention, if it's that fast a gain.

General Discussion / Re: what are you reading?
« on: May 25, 2008, 09:08:11 pm »
I seem to recall reading the ringworld series  as a child. I've also read his stories re organ-transplant etc.

My own suggestion is usually to read H G Wells' SF stories and books as he, along with Jules Verne, basically invented the whole genre of science-fiction. The only genuinely new theme in SF that H G Wells didn't invent was that of robots. Wells invented virtually every other idea in SF.

General Discussion / Re: what are you reading?
« on: May 25, 2008, 05:40:47 pm »
I am rereading the Dune Series of 6 novels by Frank Herbert this summer.  I watched the Dune movie recently and I love this quote, which I don't remember from the 1st book:

"Without change, something sleeps inside us and seldom awakens.  The sleeper must awaken."
Duke Leto Atreides

Dune is one of my favourite books. I'm an SF genre fan, myself, with a near-encyclopaedic knowledge of SF short stories, and to a lesser extent, SF books, from 1900-1980.

Primal Diet / Re: Raw Dairy
« on: May 25, 2008, 02:11:14 am »
In Florida, you can by raw milk for pets only and it is marked "not for human consumption."


Yes, but anyone with brains can still pretend to buy it " just for their pets", if they want to. In the UK, it's different, I gather that Northern Ireland, and definitely Scotland, forbid the sale of raw dairy but  England and Wales allow it(the trouble is that the raw-dairy-industry is unregulated so that a number of unscrupulous farmers deliberately sel lightly-pasteurised dary asbeing supposedly "raw".

Journals / Re: Craig's Lab Results
« on: May 24, 2008, 10:33:17 pm »
First test at five weeks Raw Paleo zero carb
Second test at 19 weeks.
Where are these tests? - there's no link, AFAIK.  Also, title of topic should be "results" not "rusults" - thank god for a forum that finally allows one to correct spelling mistakes, after posting.

General Discussion / Re: Were you sick when you started?
« on: May 24, 2008, 10:28:38 pm »
Yeah, I also came to a raw-animal-food diet due to ill-health incurred from cooked-food diets. There was no way I could even have contemplated this diet if I'd been in OK health. It was only when I started getting very painful stomach-aches and increasingly found cooked-food to be tasteless that I realised that there was no other option but a raw-omnivore(mostly carnivore) diet  once raw veganism/fruitarianism had been tried and discarded. I might, otherwise, have gone in for a raw-animal-food diet as I entered middle-age, but that's about it.

General Discussion / Re: raw shellfish
« on: May 24, 2008, 05:42:31 pm »
Here's a US website offering exotic meats:-

(Don't buy the kobe beef, as it's grainfed - the cows are raised in cages, forbidden to exercise, and are also fed alcohol).

Re lobsters/crabs:- I've eaten raw lobster and raw crab, before. I have to buy them live, as the fishmonger(from my local farmer's market) refuses to sell them raw and dead, only raw and live or dead and cooked.  I take them home(the claws are already held within rubber-bands), and then I stuff them into the freezer for a few hours which puts them into a state of torpor/suspended animation. I then take them out, put a meat-knife on the notch above the lobsters' head(or lengthways down the middle of the crab's shell) and then use a hammer on the knife to cut it up -  I then do the same with the claws etc.

The raw lobster and raw crab taste very good indeed - the crab I rarely get these days, as the fishmonger is reluctant to sell them live instead of cooked, but it's so cheap(c. 3 UK pounds sterlin= c.6 US dollars per crab) that it's worth it - food is more expensive in the UK than the US, so this really is a good deal, from my point of view. The lobster is worth 17 pounds.

I also buy bags of raw oysters and raw mussels, among other shellfish. I use an oyster-knife to pry open the oysters, and use a metal walnut-cracker to crack open the mussels. The raw mussels are very acidic in taste, but I rather like them, and they cost only 4 pounds(=8 US dollars) per bag of c.200 mussels, so that's well worth it.

General Discussion / Re: Were you sick when you started?
« on: May 24, 2008, 05:23:33 pm »
I think about 2/3 start this diet out of necessity due to health-problems from having been on cooked-diets, and a 1/3 do it out of a desire for an alternative way of living. It's no surprise that the RAF-movement is biggest in California which seems to have a high proportion of people interested in alternative-health etc.

Off Topic / Re: how do you guys feel about global future?
« on: May 24, 2008, 05:16:20 pm »
Your comments sound a bit like anarcho-primitivism to me:-

Primal Diet / Re: Raw Dairy
« on: May 24, 2008, 04:06:53 am »
AFAIK, many (though not all) US States forbid even cow-sharing agreements between customers and farmers, so just owning a cow and consuming its milk can be made illegal.

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