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Messages - cliff

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26
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Glycogen in muscles/short bursts of energy on zero carb
« on: April 15, 2011, 06:13:05 am »
Quote from: pioneer on April 15, 2011, 04:03:03 am
Are there really any studies or food tests showing the damage done to cooking meat at low temps besides the fact that it produces carcinogens at higher temps?

Cooking denatures proteins making the meat more tough and less digestible, it inactivates certain nutrients, creates toxic compounds etc.  Cooking at low temps or just lightly searing might mitigate some of these effects but it still has consequences.

27
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Glycogen in muscles/short bursts of energy on zero carb
« on: April 15, 2011, 01:55:29 am »
Quote from: Löwenherz on April 14, 2011, 06:46:35 pm
Cliff,

could you please show me where I can find "ALWAYS available carbs" in Germany, France, Spain, Portugal, Canada, New Zealand or Argentina?

Löwenherz


Underground storage organs, cattails and probably many more I don't even know about.  Just because you think they don't exist doesn't mean anything.  Hg's utilize thousands of plants in there local environment, you would have to do the research for yourself.  A lot of Carb sources can also be stored for prolonged periods without detriment(even fruits like the baobab can be stored for very long time)

28
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Glycogen in muscles/short bursts of energy on zero carb
« on: April 14, 2011, 04:57:31 am »
Obliviously no one here is advocating veganism.  We have tons of examples of people procreating generation after generation on largely plant based diets.  We are tropical creatures for the most part and even if we aren't, like I said carbs are always available in almost every temperate climate, maybe if you have some inuit fantasy that you feel like living out I guess you can copy them but I don't know who would want to do that.


We already know that people that actually live in jungles and what they eat and what they don't eat

Enlighten us please.

From what I remember that so-called undiscovered amazon tribe(not really undiscovered) had plantains, papaya and cassava.  Who cares what they eat though?

I find you guys really fall for the if its wild its good fallacy which is absolutely false imo.


HG's exploited hundred if not thousands of plants, they had a vast knowledge of the ecosystem.  I can hardly take a westerner serious who claims there is not one sustainable wild plant that could sustain people(I'm not talking about just eating that one plant either because that's stupid).  Its an absolutely idiotic claim especially coming from some random on the internet.

I'm not attacking you either I'm just stating my thoughts, you can take them however you want.

29
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Glycogen in muscles/short bursts of energy on zero carb
« on: April 13, 2011, 08:18:43 pm »
Quote from: KD on April 13, 2011, 07:02:09 am
there isn't sustainable wild uncultivated food anywhere for even the smallest populations.

I'm sure you've searched every inch of earth and have found this to be true...  l)

Are you just talking about fruit?  Because there are plenty of sustainable plant foods that could sustain the whole world, cattails being the biggest example.

It seems you have a major bias against plant foods and fruits because you think they fucked you up?  You speak as if you have authority but in reality you have no idea what you're talking about and how could you when no one really knows.

30
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Glycogen in muscles/short bursts of energy on zero carb
« on: April 13, 2011, 05:08:51 am »
Quote from: KD on April 13, 2011, 04:37:50 am
Aajonus, Kurt Harris, Mark Sisson, Gabriel Cousens, Brian Clement, Fred Bisci, all the ZC 'gurus', conventional medicine, a large section of athletes and strength trainers etc

All these people eat fruit though and none eat processed carbs.  There is no scientific evidence or real life evidence that processed carbs>fruit.  Robert Lustig the authority on fructose thinks there is nothing wrong with eating very large quantities of fruit.  Unless your a total fructose phobe I don't get how anyone could ever claim that processed carbs are better then fruit.  I guarantee you that if 811ers did processed carbs instead of fruit they would be majorly fcked.

31
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Glycogen in muscles/short bursts of energy on zero carb
« on: April 13, 2011, 04:09:13 am »
Quote from: KD on April 12, 2011, 11:15:24 pm
whatever seasonal carbs might be available.

Carbs are always available in the tropics and even most temperate climates and they can be stored for prolonged periods. I.E. underground ground storage organs and certain fruits like baobab

Quote from: KD on April 12, 2011, 11:15:24 pm
long term raw vegan practitioners to Primal Diet to cooked paleo/primal camps will agree that even processed starches can be less damaging than fresh fruits.

Who says this and what is it based on?  Are they claiming white flour is better then fruit because it has no simple sugars?? 


Quote from: KD on April 12, 2011, 11:15:24 pm
Basically this idea that one is going to avoid 'toxic' food and both their performance and health will increase is just as wrong.

Carbs aren't toxic...  -d

32
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Glycogen in muscles/short bursts of energy on zero carb
« on: April 12, 2011, 08:22:00 pm »
Oats are a horrible food, loaded with PUFAs and not raw(I assume you eat the rolled oats? which are steamed).  If your gonna eat cooked carbs Underground storage organs are by far the best option.

FYI soaking oats doesn't do anything, especially if you using rolled oats as oats are very low in the Phytase enzyme.

33
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Glycogen in muscles/short bursts of energy on zero carb
« on: April 11, 2011, 10:22:32 pm »
Quote from: pioneer on April 11, 2011, 09:07:26 pm
A great way to easily disprove this is looking at the American diet for the past 30 years. As the carbohydrate % keeps raising, Americans keep getting sicker and sicker.

Detailed dietary assessments have been conducted in the UK since the turn of the century. Carbohydrate intake represented over 60% energy in the 1920's, and apart from a plateau and even a rise, due to rationing during and after the Second World War, carbohydrate intake continued to decrease in the UK, reaching a low of 45-46% energy in the 1950's, 60's and 70's (21,22). With interest in dietary fibre in the 1970's and more recently a renewed interest in starch, intakes of carbohydrate in the UK in the late 1980's, early 1990's have risen to about 48% energy (21,22)


Carbohydrate consumption has decreased but refined carbohydrate consumption has increased i.e. Carbs that actually have nutrition have been replaced with nutritionally devoid products.

Another interesting trend is that Grain consumption has increased since 1960 but has never reached the amount that was eaten in the early 1900s.  THe grain of choice was white flour at that time yet no obesity epidemic.

Carbs don't cause problems its the refined seed oils and combinations they are put in that cause problems.



34
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: Glycogen in muscles/short bursts of energy on zero carb
« on: April 11, 2011, 10:14:09 pm »
The carbophopia some of you have is pretty hilarious.  

@pioneer- What are the symptoms of carb intolerance and have you ever contemplated it's you and not the carbs that is the problem?

Every hunter gatherer society has always eaten carbs, even the inuit (which are an extreme example) ate some carbs.  For the people who think carbs are evol where are these magical zero carb HGs?  HG's typically eat the liver fresh after a hunt, liver is the richest animal source of carbs as far as I know.

If you feel you have explosive strength on zero carb that's fine but if you feel lacking don't be afraid of carbs.  I personally don't get why you would want to put extra stress on your body to convert protien and lactate versus just eating some carbs which happen to provide nutrients lacking in a pure carnivore diet.

Just my 2 cents.

35
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: The BEST work-out!!!
« on: April 07, 2011, 08:36:37 pm »
Quote from: proteus on April 07, 2011, 07:28:05 pm
that's not paleo.  no chase ( whether you are the hunter or the hunted ) lasts this long.  a chase lasts up to about a minute and in that time either the prey is caught or the predator gives up.


Classic...
http://www.youtube.com/v/9wI-9RJi0Qo?fs

Persistence hunting is a hunting technique in which hunters use a combination of running and tracking to pursue prey to the point of exhaustion.

Persistence hunting requires endurance running – running many miles for extended periods of time. Among primates, endurance running is only seen in humans, and persistence hunting is thought to have been one of the earliest forms of human hunting, having evolved 2 million years ago.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

36
General Discussion / Re: Not hitting mineral targets
« on: April 07, 2011, 04:51:18 am »
You could add plant foods, fruits probably being the best option as far as magnesium and potassium go. 

37
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: The BEST work-out!!!
« on: April 05, 2011, 09:39:08 pm »
How is stretching not paleo???  Every other animal stretches and I can only assume wild humans stretch.

I try to stretch on a daily basis usually in the evening for about 10-15 mins

38
General Discussion / Re: NADH enzymes in raw foods help prevent age-related decline
« on: April 02, 2011, 10:33:16 pm »
Thanks for clarifying phil, looks like were both on the same page.  And yes I do know the importance of NADH production in the body, just not sure on the importance of dietary NADH  ;)

39
General Discussion / Re: NADH enzymes in raw foods help prevent age-related decline
« on: April 02, 2011, 09:29:20 pm »
Quote from: PaleoPhil on April 02, 2011, 06:02:58 am
It isn't an official essential nutrient, but I consider most of the reductionist scientific consensus views on what "nutrients" are "essential" to be bogus anyway.

Healthy people(i.e. Hunter gatherers) break down NADH so its not essential, if it was essential it would be digested whole and not denatured.

Quote from: PaleoPhil on April 02, 2011, 06:02:58 am
Yes, I know. This is a raw forum, so cooking is presumably pretty irrelevant here and Tyler's original post already covered this anyway.

My point was that it doesn't matter if you cook, broil or fry the food, if your healthy the NADH going to end up denatured.

Quote from: PaleoPhil on April 02, 2011, 06:02:58 am
The important thing is maintaining a healthy level of NADH in the body. Consuming foods that are rich in the precursors (mainly meats and fish--probably preferably raw) appears to be the most effective way to achieve that.

Agree'd

Quote from: RawZi
Some people have little stomach acid (like aajonus) or produce less stomach acid because they are eating raw.

What is this based on?  Raw meat needs less stomach acid to be digested?  Is this just anecdotal or do these people actually have test that show this?

40
General Discussion / Re: NADH enzymes in raw foods help prevent age-related decline
« on: April 01, 2011, 09:41:28 pm »
Quote from: PaleoPhil on April 01, 2011, 09:49:42 am
However, that didn't make sense to me, given that the info that Dorothy at the Giveittomeraw forum provided indicated that NADH is essential to humans in numerous ways and given that supplement pills are a recent invention. If it's true that NADH is essential, then our ancestors would not have survived if there wasn't a way for them to obtain enough of it from natural foods

NADH isn't an essential nutrient...

The precursors are the only thing that matters.

Cooking destroys NADH because it denatures the protein its connected too, just like your stomach acid will.  Healthy people have no need for NADH and its main use seems to be to combat Alzheimers in people who are already screwed up(i.e. deficient in nutrients), the precursors would probably help these people just as much as the NADH maybe more?

41
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: The BEST work-out!!!
« on: March 30, 2011, 09:08:03 pm »
Swimming in cold water or better yet surfing in cold water :)

42
Omnivorous Raw Paleo Diet / Re: Raw Yam?
« on: March 28, 2011, 09:14:44 pm »
Quote from: jessica on March 28, 2011, 08:16:19 pm

it is believed that peanuts and other legumes contain toxins, antinutrients and allergens.  i think that this is true but the reaction that occurs in each individual is differs, as well as with each food in particular. 


All plant foods contain toxins and antinutrients to some extent.  Peanuts do seem to have there problems, high pufa and lectin content being the biggest two but we have hunter gatherers such as the !kung who heavily eat mongongo nuts which are also a very rich source of PUFAs and other toxins/antinutrients no doubt.  Hunter gatherers would not eat these foods raw imo though as they all know the value of proper processing.

43
General Discussion / Re: Is it possible to leave civilization forever and return to the wild?
« on: March 28, 2011, 07:26:16 am »
Quote from: CitrusHigh on March 28, 2011, 05:08:00 am

cliff, think about this statement, are there any contradictions here?

No.

agriculturists can grow surpluses.  They are not immune to the problem of starvation though like I stated.

Where is the contradiction?

44
General Discussion / Re: Is it possible to leave civilization forever and return to the wild?
« on: March 27, 2011, 10:41:30 pm »
Quote from: CitrusHigh on March 27, 2011, 10:05:46 pm
What kind of hare brained scheme was it to settle down and start busting our asses doing menial labor all day every day for the rest of our lives?

I assume they thought that being able to survive past food shortages was worth the extra labor?  Not very fun to die of starvation due to local food scarcity.  Although agriculturist are not immune to this problem, Irish potato famine comes to mind.

45
General Discussion / Re: Is it possible to leave civilization forever and return to the wild?
« on: March 27, 2011, 08:40:35 pm »
No you probably couldn't, at least at this point if your asking this question.

You need either serious knowledge(of the land and basic primitive skills) to live wild style or a tribe that has the knowledge.  You'll fail pretty fast if you don't have either of these.

46
Personals / Re: California
« on: March 27, 2011, 12:51:25 am »
Quote from: actup90 on March 27, 2011, 12:34:38 am
Interesting... is it tax free and/or cheaper?

I think shes talking about rawesome?  If that is the case they are overpriced and shady imo

47
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: MCT and LCT metabolism and transit time
« on: March 22, 2011, 08:50:27 am »
Quote from: achillezzz on March 21, 2011, 08:54:36 pm
Where can I learn all this stuff I never heard about that?
Provide a link or anything I want to study this!

Just google short chain triglycerides, medium chain triglycerides etc.  Lots of info.

48
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: MCT and LCT metabolism and transit time
« on: March 21, 2011, 08:17:08 pm »
It doesn't really matter, if your trying to lose weight or fuel up before a workout go for the SCT/MCT.  If your trying to gain or want long burning fuel go for the LCT

49
Exercise / Bodybuilding / Re: MCT and LCT metabolism and transit time
« on: March 18, 2011, 09:00:25 pm »
MCTs and SCTs are digested by active diffusion and require no bile so I'm ubder the assumption they digest a decent amount faster.  How fast tho I do not know, it should be noted though that you can't really store MCTs or SCTs which could be a good or bad thing depending on your goals.

50
Personals / Re: California
« on: March 18, 2011, 08:58:10 pm »
Norcal is cold and shitty from what my experience, socal is where its at if you can afford it.  I would probably rather live somewhere else if I didn't surf though.  No matter where you go in cali you will probably have good access to raw animal foods but don't forget its extremely expensive out here(it averages around $7-10/lb for legit grass fed meats, half that for organs)

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