Author Topic: Vaccination  (Read 53216 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2015, 09:49:34 pm »
Eugenics for humans maybe.... might be the way to go?

It's a slippery slope, but hunose. There is a whole section in the War museum in Ottawa Canada dealing with it and it is quite mind-blowing to read about the PPL who were for it.

Years ago in the beginning of my career I used to do air ambulance. Sometimes we would fly preemies or premature babies. It was like a contest or an ego trip for Doctors to see how ridiculously premature they could keep a baby alive. The poor kid might be a vegetable, but that wasn't important. The child would not be anywhere near their mothers for a very long time.
  State-sponsored eugenics is a bad idea, overall. The tendency of any government is to constantly bring in new laws and it would be in the State's interests to only have children which were genetically inclined to obey the State's laws. Libertarian eugenics, on the other hand, means that genetic improvement is relatively random, and favours the individual.

Your mention of preemies is apt. My point re eugenics is not just that going back to our caveman past in a genetic sense might be a good idea. It is that as our technology  advances, we will make it more and more possible for people with only slight physical and mental defects to breed who would not have been able to do so before. In the short-term, this is not such an issue. But, in the long-term, our descendants in the far future might well, as a  result,  all end up with myopia at birth, for example, along with multiple more serious conditions that modern science might easily be able to alleviate to a large extent, but not completely.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #76 on: February 12, 2015, 01:18:04 am »
Let's read that quote in context:
The part that says "no mandatory federal vaccination laws exist" means that the US does not require vaccination.

Lets put that in the context of the real world.....

A woman has just gone through a exhausting experience lasting potentially many hours maybe involving surgery when suddenly someone takes the baby away and possibly asks for a signature.... maybe not. Some hospitals just say "sorry it's hospital policy" and then they haul the hapless kid off to be vaccinated for a disease that can only be transmitted through blood or sexual means. Hep B. This could be easily determined with the mother beforehand with a simple blood test without disturbing the child.

So that is what is called consent?

What about the Nuremberg trials where it was internationally decided that to be involved in medical events/trials required 'informed consent' on the part of the participant?

Informed consent means that you are advised of the possible upsides and downsides/reactions etc prior to participation.

How many times have you had your medical Miranda warnings read out to you? Maybe give some examples, not necessarily everything they told you, but just a precis would be fine...

You and everyone else have been physically assaulted and don't even know it. We could collectively sue these crooks into obscurity.

A Doctor cannot just stick her/his hand into you or a needle into you without consent. That is called assault. It is a violation of internationally agreed human rights. You cannot be even given an enama in Canada without signed consent and a trained accredited person doing it.

However these crooks are systematically trying to get around that by making it mandatory and they are very close to achieving it. That is what the big BS campaign in the media is all about. These are simply shills, who knowingly or unknowingly have been hired by big pharma to create propaganda.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2015, 01:20:02 am »
If you listen to the facts on the mumps vaccine you see what Big Pharma is up to. A mumps vaccine is practically a death sentence possibly resulting in sterility owing to the fact that vaccines only confer a short period of immunity unlike real illness which confers a lifetime and then it can be passed down through the mother.

If you have the mumps which as a child is a very simple 'no big deal illness', you are now immune for life and potentially it will be passed to the next generation. But if vaccinated, the immunity only lasts a few years and then you have to be revaccinated but that vaccination does not last at all and subsequent re-vaccination is pointless.

It's a big profit potential for big pharma because of the repeat business. Problem is that mumps in adulthood is very serious and results in sterility of males.

The way that Big Pharma slid this vaccine in through the government is an absolute atrocity, worthy of criminal prosecution, because what I described is well known by these crooks as well as lots of other slippery slope schemes.

Medicine is a business, like it or lump it. These PPL are like everyone else in business. Not every Doctor schemes this stuff up. It is the backroom boys further up the food chain that do the scheming.
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Offline raw-al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2015, 01:29:58 am »
  State-sponsored eugenics is a bad idea, overall. The tendency of any government is to constantly bring in new laws and it would be in the State's interests to only have children which were genetically inclined to obey the State's laws. Libertarian eugenics, on the other hand, means that genetic improvement is relatively random, and favours the individual.

Your mention of preemies is apt. My point re eugenics is not just that going back to our caveman past in a genetic sense might be a good idea. It is that as our technology  advances, we will make it more and more possible for people with only slight physical and mental defects to breed who would not have been able to do so before. In the short-term, this is not such an issue. But, in the long-term, our descendants in the far future might well, as a  result,  all end up with myopia at birth, for example, along with multiple more serious conditions that modern science might easily be able to alleviate to a large extent, but not completely.
TD,
I hear you and that would be as I and you suggested, a slippery slope, but the devil is in the details...

Where do you draw the line? Who decides where and when the decision to cut the proverbial cord, to decide who will stay alive and so forth? These questions are questions of ethics and finances.

I heard a prediction back in the 1990's by one famous psychic that one of the great dilemmas in the new century would be deciding where to cut the cord. Whether you like psychics or not, is irrelevant because that dilemma is upon us now.
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Al

Offline raw-al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #79 on: February 12, 2015, 01:37:16 am »
Right now you can check into a facility with unbelievable crap running through your veins from years of Rotten Ronny food, have a three week treatment (or more depending on how bad you are 'full of crap') and emerge a 'born again garbage eater.'

Basically a basket case with terminal heart disease, AIDS etc, have a series of treatments with ozone etc and come out, not quite shiny and new but not that far off. Obviously at some point you have inflicted too much systemic damage or the sins of your father/mother have visited you.

This is not science fiction. A friend of mine has treated PPL with a device that took a person with a gangrenous damage from cold exposure and brought them back to perfect condition, out running again after a few weeks. This device is FDA approved BTW, but I am not sure if all of his tricks are so 'blessed'.

I and my wife had arthritis (mild) and completely eliminated it.
Cheers
Al

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2015, 02:38:40 am »
If you work in a hospital or old folks home or certain businesses you are obligated to get vaccinated.

My Girlfriend was a massage therapist who worked on cancer patients in a hospital, and she ended up quitting after mandatory vaccination for hep b went into effect.
Fuck natural die-offs. The bubonic plague was a natural die-off.  You want to bring that back? ROFL
Who would of thought there would be such a disagreement in the raw paleo world regarding vaccines? I think its baffling that people who claim to believe that cooked toxins in food are so horrible, while at the same time supporting the injection of cooked genetically engendered bio toxins into  small children( the cognitive dissonance is astounding)

There are people on this forum who are hard core in their distrust of many things in modern life that are taken for "Manna".
For crying out loud, you are debating the safety of vaccines with someone who believes that synthetic vitamins are potentially harmful, that the anti bacterial agents in soaps poison us, that the fluoride in the water is put there to retard and pacify the population, HIV was man made, and 911 was an inside job. Many of the same scientist who are telling us to get vaccinated also suggest that we should be eating a pound of whole grains each day, so how can we trust in the authorities when it comes to vaccination when they are wrong about so many other areas regarding what makes for optimal human health. There is just so much that we do not know to be absolute certain either way, I am doing my best to figure it out and put forth points of view that are not being included within the narrow parameters of the mainstreams so called discussion

Many of my questions regarding the trans generational blowback effects of mass vaccination remain to be unanswered by the pro vaccination camp, nor will they acknowledge the proven vaccine frauds that I have mentioned in previous post. I feel like my main concerns and objections are being ignored. There are many questions being raised that the pro vaccine camp refuses to answer.  There are a few here, that seems to understand what I am attempting to communicate, but it seems that others are not objectively considering the counterpoints being raised.

As far as I can tell there is no sufficient evidence that will prove one way or another, the totality of the effect of mass vaccination, and the  systematically study of the trans generational effects of genetic engineering of the human immune system, which may shine some light on the subject, is not being done, and any evidence that even remotely ties vaccines to harm are being spun by the powers that be. The data released to the public is insufficient for people to make a truly well informed decision, and there is a huge discrepancy between the aggregation of Pharmaceutical company funded medical research data, which is peer reviewed by the sorcerers, up in the ivory towers of the establishment and the Raw Truth of those who live in the real world, and are forced to reap the whirlwind that has been sewn for us. The life of a man in the trenches perspective is much different, than those who claim authority from among high. Who is right and who is wrong is often a value judgment, that is subjective and depends greatly upon ones perspective and perceptions.

It is my view that our perspectives and perceptions are askew, so the data parameters that are sought out, by the pro vaccine medical science establishment ,to prove preconceived hypotheses regarding the pseudoscience of immunology, may be inherently incorrect. I do not trust any of the numbers or studies that suggest that vaccines have somehow cured the world of dread disease( disease is not dispelled by magic concoctions, it merely changes form) Though only those with the right eyes to see will be able to recognize the slight of hand trick that is being perpetrated. The Data which is touted as evidence is cooked, and the raw truth is burned at the stake for heresy!

Let us take into account how exactly the measure of vaccine success is measured, there is a claim that since small pox has been eradicated, vaccines are unanimously considered successful, and whatever risk they pose is outweighed by the benefit of having a small pox free world... but then you talk to people like my uncle who had the small pox vaccine in the military, and years later his doctor told him that it could have been responsible for his development of a Parkinson's tremor, as well as leaving him prone to debilitating shingles outbreaks. The true scope of the side effects are lost. The chronic health problems in those who have received mass inoculation, are very difficult to pin point a single cause, but to compltly deny the potential of vaccines to do harm, and may contribute to iatrogenic illness, is arrogant.

There may not be a person in my family born to my generation who hasn't had an adverse reaction.... my cousin who developed a seizure disorder two weeks after a chicken pox shot, my brother who developed ITP(a serious auto immune disorder) days after the MMR, my uncle Scott who was permanently damaged by the diphtheria vaccine, or my sister who lost her hair and developed behavior disorders around the time of her two year shots. My own records show that I had gotten pneumonia two weeks after my second MMR shot, I suffered with asthma and allergy's and a number of other immune dysfunctions through my childhood. Yet none of the instances,(even that of my brother who almost died) were ever reported.

This huge discrepancy and willful ignorance of the reality is what really going on, and no one on the pro vaccine side in the debate seems acknowledge those who have been harmed. The cognitive dissonance is thick! I am also a bit peeved at those, who don't have" cubs in the Malay", spouting off about how they support vaccination. The flesh of my flesh and blood of my blood are going to have to deal with the consequences if mandatory vaccine laws are in place. Those without offspring can hyperbolically manifest ideals about how vaccines will deliver future generations from disease, while not having to personally take a single one of the next generation of shots being engineered right now,. My grandchildren are going to be the ones potentially subjected to a massive increase in the number of inoculation that are being proposed.

We all sight studies from time to time( which I try and take with a grain of sea salt), but does anyone really trust the data coming out of the medical establishment in regards to many of the concerns I bring up. Do you think that when a child dies of some illness that the coroner will put onto the report. Child died of an infections that was caused by immune dysfunction that resulted from adverse vaccine reaction. Could you imagine what would happen if coroners actually looked for the underlying causes of death from a holistic level, then the actual causes of premature death in many of these heartbreaking cases would be fully disclosed. If this were to happen, we may begin to see those who would be so weak as to die from a flu( or some other common viral illness) usually had some other underlying condition which weakend them to a point where it was only a matter of time before something else did them in. Knowing this, people could make informed decisions about their own health, and chose to focus their efforts and the medical dollars to find other ways to boast health and immunity which are much more beneficial than whatever shot has been approved by the FDA for that particular year. For crying out loud 40,000 people die of the flu in America every year, but even if this years flu was killed by vaccines then some other cold bug would emerge and a similar number of people would die of some other condition.  ( If I was coroner, with a well funded lab of my own I would run full spectrum analysis's on people who died of infectious illnesses and write up detailed reports that would reflect the environmental factors that where responsible for the death.
 
 In the past, in the instances when a young child died from measles or was crippled by polio, do you think that we had the ability to discern other contributing factors, I mean, 99 percent of the population previous to polio vaccine had antibodies to the virus , but only a small fraction of the population ever showed any symptoms whatsoever. There must be other factors that are being ignored, and unless those factors are identified and addressed then the disease will simply manifest in some other form. We may not have polio outbreaks, but there are an alarming increase in the number of neurological disorders such as cerebral palsy that the medical establishment is unable to address, not to mention a myriad of other conditions that stem from immunological dysfunction.

Live measles virus is being found in the guts of inoculated people who suffer from autoimmune related digestive disorders, as well as in the brains of autistic people, the belief is that in some people the live virus vaccines does not stimulate a sufficient immune response to fully clear the viral DNA and that it imbeds itself deep within the tissues of the body, which possibly contributes to the epidemic of chronic autoimmune dysfunction we see today.

Much of these concerns I am attempting to communicate are not being addressed, or properly investigated by the authorities, and most people I talk to are not even aware of the multitude of deception and lies that surround this issue!


« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 02:55:47 am by sabertooth »
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Offline Inger

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2015, 03:28:44 am »
I do not get either how so many are pro vaccines here......

it is kinda funny

I am saying no to vaccines personally. I got every vaccine that was pushed upon you as a kid and that was enough.
I remember freshly the swine flu vaccine a few years back.... and many got seriously ill after that - in Finland it was really pushed upon you from the health care system (similar to Canada)
I just do not trust our health care system.

I have a sister that has 7 kids, all un-vaccinated. They are all doing fine......

Maybe it is better we try to vaccinate ourselves all the time to all kind of germs and stuff in the nature and from humans around us :)
That is what I do..... no idea if it works but so far I am doing great :)

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2015, 05:09:20 am »
The point of vaccinations is to wipe out specific infectious diseases. If enough people get the vaccine for any given disease, then it has no one left to infect and gets wiped out. Then what? Nobody has to get that vaccine ever again. That's what happened with smallpox.  Vaccine denialists are taking advantage of everyone else's herd immunity. When there are too many vaccine denialists, then herd immunity fails, and diseases can easily spread.

There's no conspiracy. Vaccination predates the current era of Big Pharma by decades. The basic science supporting it is untainted.

Isn't the whole point of eating a super-healthy diet and doing all this research to be able to live our lives freely? We give up the pleasure of unhealthy foods in order to gain the freedom to have good enough health to do what we want in life.

Well, what I want in life is to contribute to herd immunity. I take a small risk with my own health in order to reduce the risk of disease epidemics. It's my choice, and it's the smarter one. I respect everyone's right to choose.

Offline JeuneKoq

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2015, 06:13:17 am »
That's what happened with smallpox.
Wrong! Found the magazine I was telling you about (NéoSanté n°37), and this what they have to say about the disappearance of Smallpox (summarized and translated from French):

"In the book "Dissolving Illusions", chapter "the rebel experiment", the authors describe a great anti-Smallpox vaccination demonstration which took place in 1885 in Leicester, England. In this country, smallpox vaccination was mandatory for three month old babies since 1853. Children suffered greatly from this vaccination policy, and ill-effects were now impossible to hide. This led the parents of Leicester to rise in mass against the vaccination policy, which meant numerous families were now prosecuted by the State for refusing mandatory vaccination protocol. Following this event, the town of Leicester had a change of politics and opted for an alternative against widespread of diseases called "surveillance-containment". The method proved to be extremely efficient, as Leicester later suffered much lower mortality rates for epidemics that otherwise decimated the vaccinated population of the rest of England. The myth of the eradication of Smallpox by vaccine, still claimed by our experts, was highly shaded by the WHO itself. In some countries the idea is officially accepted that "surveillance-containment" is to thank for the end of Smallpox, rather than mass vaccination, as reminded by the "Final report of world communication for the certification of eradication of smallpox" published in 1979"

"Surveillance-containment" basically describes the process of putting new and current cases of a designated disease in isolation, so as to prevent transmission to the rest of the population.


Offline JeuneKoq

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2015, 06:19:38 am »
The point of vaccinations is to wipe out specific infectious diseases. If enough people get the vaccine for any given disease, then it has no one left to infect and gets wiped out. Then what? Nobody has to get that vaccine ever again. That's what happened with smallpox.  Vaccine denialists are taking advantage of everyone else's herd immunity. When there are too many vaccine denialists, then herd immunity fails, and diseases can easily spread.
I don't get it. So people that are vaccinated against a disease are supposed to become immune to it. So how do non-vaccinated individuals still pose a threat to these people? Shouldn't non-vaccinated be the only ones getting sick and dying, in that case? I've got tons of unread info on vaccines, so I'll be doing my homework and doing exactly what you claim to be doing: killing the bullshit.

There's no conspiracy. Vaccination predates the current era of Big Pharma by decades. The basic science supporting it is untainted.
You couldn't be more wrong. If you think Pasteur was a Saint dedicated to the well-being of the people, or an original, inventive mind, you're in for a big surprise. "Pasteur exposed", coming up soon...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 06:27:33 am by JeuneKoq »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2015, 06:26:17 am »
I don't get it. So people that are vaccinated against a disease are supposed to become immune to it. So how do non-vaccinated individuals still pose a threat to these people? Shouldn't non-vaccinated be the only ones getting sick and dying, in that case? I've got tons of unread info on vaccines, so I'll be doing my homework and doing exactly what you claim to be doing: getting rid of the bullshit.

Non-vaccinated people make it impossible for a disease to be eradicated completely. You're right, quarantine is an effective way to get rid of disease. However, it can be extremely difficult to coordinate such a program internationally, which is what would have to happen for it to be effective.

How do you think polio became so rare? You're wrong about smallpox vaccination not working, and your reference is full of shit. LOL


Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #86 on: February 12, 2015, 06:29:39 am »
Jeune,  I am familiar with the Pasteur controversy. We were having that discussion years before you showed up here, and there is no ultimate winner. Healthy wild animals die of epidemic disease, but a good diet and lifestyle does help with disease resistance. That's the answer. All good evidence leads to that conclusion, and you, I promise, have nothing new to add to the discussion.

Offline JeuneKoq

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #87 on: February 12, 2015, 06:39:39 am »

How do you think polio became so rare? You're wrong about smallpox vaccination not working, and your reference is full of shit. LOL


Grow up, man. Unless you have a PhD in whatever is qualified to genuinely talk about this matter (and Medicine probably isn't even the one), your arguments and references are worth as much as mine.

Jeune,  I am familiar with the Pasteur controversy. We were having that discussion years before you showed up here, and there is no ultimate winner. Healthy wild animals die of epidemic disease, but a good diet and lifestyle does help with disease resistance. That's the answer. All good evidence leads to that conclusion, and you, I promise, have nothing new to add to the discussion.
Then why would you still talk about vaccine science being untainted as if it was valid info?

So I guess we can agree that vaccines is just a matter of belief, in the end. I just hope you never experience loosing a child to it...Or maybe they'll be better off with it, heh?
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 07:31:52 am by JeuneKoq »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #88 on: February 12, 2015, 08:34:12 am »
If there's herd immunity, then an individual is better off avoiding the risk of the vaccine, sure. However, at least 90% or so of the population has to be vaccinated in order for herd immunity to work. Since I'm so healthy from my raw paleo diet, I volunteer to be part of the herd immunity. I don't know about the rest of you.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #89 on: February 12, 2015, 08:41:16 am »

Then why would you still talk about vaccine science being untainted as if it was valid info?


I agree that vaccines are semi-pointless for the common childhood diseases, especially if people are eating an ideal diet. However, smallpox killed off over 90% of Native Americans. It's no joke. There are diseases that could erupt into plagues and kill billions, and letting people believe ALL vaccines are useless or mostly harmful would weaken public support for finding and using a vaccine for such a plague, if it happens.

Also, young infants are especially vulnerable if they get sick. They rely on herd immunity.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2015, 08:44:47 am »
Jeune, when I said the basic foundational vaccine science is untainted, I meant "untainted by greed", not "untainted by nutritional ignorance".  It obviously isn't the whole truth. 

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #91 on: February 12, 2015, 09:00:44 am »
The point of vaccinations is to wipe out specific infectious diseases. If enough people get the vaccine for any given disease, then it has no one left to infect and gets wiped out. Then what? Nobody has to get that vaccine ever again. That's what happened with smallpox.  Vaccine denialists are taking advantage of everyone else's herd immunity. When there are too many vaccine denialists, then herd immunity fails, and diseases can easily spread.


Well, what I want in life is to contribute to herd immunity. I take a small risk with my own health in order to reduce the risk of disease epidemics. It's my choice, and it's the smarter one. I respect everyone's right to choose.



Much of it boils down to personal belief, and the power of the human mind to believe may in fact be enough to make those beliefs true, especially if you can get 90 percent of the population to believe as you do. Perception is reality after all.

Much of the believes we hold regarding this discussion cannot be differentiated from religiosity. There is a divide between those who believe that Man must attempt to control and alter nature so that it doesn't destroy our ego, and others who are more TAO and believe that we should learn to flow with the natural rhythms of life and death, and accept impermanence as a part of life. It is really rather foolish in my opinion to believe that we humans are anywhere close to being able to master the inner workings of biology, to the point where we can scientifically engineer the immune system of a human being that is capable of fully integrating into the world of nature. There is so much more than meets the eye, and I feel that the power of human potential is not dependent upon the machinations of the applied medical industrial sciences. We were well on our way to a higher evolutionary level well before the industrial medical model came along to save us from natures furry.



 Within the human mind there is the power to direct conscious thought onto the body in a way that will illicit biological responses, far more in tune with what is needed to adapt to and evolve than what is being done in a Lab. This ability is tied directly to our immune system and the vital essence that is manifest in the very code of our DNA. I have a strong conviction that by artificially interfering with the functioning of these natural processes inoculation with genetically modified viral DNA could be interfering with the process of our evolution to the next level, and it may be stifling the attempts of nature to bring us back into accord with the natural order. The attempt to stifle the sickness of civilization through vaccination are in reality an affront to the natural order of things. It is mans attempt to protect the weak from the strong, and this endeavor though in the eyes of some may seem just and compassionate, is still contrary to the process of life, and there will be serious negative consequences in the long run.

In part CK is right there are disease microbes that will use the unvaccinated as vessels that harbor the mercenary assassins of Gaia. Those with particularly powerful immune systems will not even be aware that they carry organisms that are capable of completely wiping out the weaker portion of the population. Another possibility is perhaps some of the diseases like small pox and syphilis where actually bio weapons that evolved in order for certain subspecies of human to be able to invade and dominate the others around them. Much in the same way that plants have evolved certain poisons in their root systems that edge out competitors. After generation of living in crowded and squalid conditions and being exposed to heavily mutagenic environments the small pox virus was created in the heart of Middle earth in order to purge the population of accumulated waste and genetic malfunctions, many people indeed developed an immunity to even the most virulent strains of the virus, and they were responsible for inoculating the others, the strong lived and the weak died, and life went on. 

Feeling powerless against the wrath and furry of natures mysterious processes deeply affected the mind of Man, to the point that it became obsessed with finding ways to save everyone from having to go through the mutilations of mutagenic adaptation. So modern science has decided that in order to protect the biologically weak from the biologically strong they must bring everyone down to the same level through mass inoculation and the suppression of viral realignments, and call it herd immunity. The methods employed so far have been crude, to say the least and though from a limited germ theory based perspective they can claim a few small victories, for the most part the war against nature isn't going very well.

The whole view of modern immunology science is false, and that instead of viewing the biological organisms as vicious demons that will devoured you as soon as they have the chance, we must learn to accept that their presents is just as necessary as ours. The pain and suffering that we call disease is a condition of the environment, and that in order to truly thrive we must focus our efforts on maintaining an intuitive harmony with all the living organisms that share our world with.

There was a star trek episode called unnatural selection, in which an outpost was being used to genetically engineer children with superhuman abilities. These children had incredible abilities both mentally and physiologically. Their immune systems where capable of detecting pathogens in the people who visited and their own immune systems created viruses in order to kill the host of the pathogens that were a perceived threat.

 Perhaps if there is a spit between vaccinated and non vaccinated populations then there would be some kind of biological war between the viral DNA of the altered and unaltered populations. In such a case those who have never been allowed to run the course of a major viral episode, never spiking a high temperature for days and developing powerful immune responses naturally, would be completely helpless against the organisms harbored by those with naturally built immunity.

Then again if things continue as they are and 90% of the population continues to be genetically altered through inoculation, then perhaps a Franken bug will immerge ( or be released)that would be harmful to the unvaccinated.

These are crazy times, and some serious issues the following generations will have to face, to be sure..........

« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 10:55:23 am by sabertooth »
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #92 on: February 12, 2015, 10:41:25 am »
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Vaccination - Discuss Mumps Vaccine
« Reply #93 on: February 12, 2015, 01:25:39 pm »
I would like to get back on discussing vaccines on a 1 by 1 basis.

I did this way back on 2003 and I still do it from time to time because new kids keep popping out.

MUMPS

we call it affectionately "beke" in my country.

As a childhood disease, nobody and nobody is ever SCARED of having mumps (as a child).

In fact, I remember my mom and my aunts excitedly calling up one another once one of the cousins was found to have MUMPS... they gathered us all for sleep overs and infected everyone else so all of us had mumps.

I did the same for my 2 boys but they did not acquire mumps or maybe the infected person did not really have mumps.

So why did people used to have MUMPS parties?  Because grown ups wanted their children to have mumps because they had a warm fuzzy feeling that if their children had mumps at pre-adolescent ages, they can avoid the complication of MUMPS in the future as adults... which is INFERTILITY.

My best friend male had MUMPS when he was 20.

His mom freaked out and brought him to many doctors for various treatments to have an assurance his testicles would not get inflamed and cause him to become INFERTILE.  This was the most feared side effect of MUMPS. Luckily he did not become infertile because today he has 2 sons.

I was surprised when I had my own children that they were now vaccinating for MUMPS in the combo vaccine MMR.

I asked what for?

I think a mumps vaccine is bullshit.

What's your take on MUMPS?
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Offline eveheart

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #94 on: February 12, 2015, 02:06:29 pm »
GS, since the acquired immunity from a case of the mumps and acquired immunity from a mumps vaccine are the same, then why would you try to expose your own boys to mumps but not to the mumps vaccine - a mild dose of the pathogen you wanted to expose them to?
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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #95 on: February 12, 2015, 02:16:06 pm »
GS, since the acquired immunity from a case of the mumps and acquired immunity from a mumps vaccine are the same, then why would you try to expose your own boys to mumps but not to the mumps vaccine - a mild dose of the pathogen you wanted to expose them to?
Eve,
immunity from a vaccination is only good for a brief period of a couple of years. After that you are once again a sitting duck and as you get older you get into the periodicity that GS referred to, so now you have to be revaccinated and the revaccination is not as effective. Each successive revaccination is less useful. Of course the vaccination I believe has a risk of causing the actual illness.

However immunity from the actual disease is sufficiently powerful that it lasts the lifetime.

This is explained by Peter Wakefield in the interview with Mercola that I posted.
Cheers
Al

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #96 on: February 12, 2015, 02:18:59 pm »
Cheers
Al

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Vaccination - Let's Discuss Rubella or German Measles / "Tigdas Hangin"
« Reply #97 on: February 12, 2015, 04:39:07 pm »
MUMPS

GS, since the acquired immunity from a case of the mumps and acquired immunity from a mumps vaccine are the same, then why would you try to expose your own boys to mumps but not to the mumps vaccine - a mild dose of the pathogen you wanted to expose them to?

My grand parents and their entire generation did not get a mumps vaccine and welcomed mumps.
My parents and their entire generation did not get a mumps vaccine and welcomed mumps.
I and my siblings and our entire generation did not get a mumps vaccine and welcomed mumps.

If in all 3 generations above we welcomed mumps...

... why should I believe in company claims that this mumps vaccine works when it was so NEW then?  And no one was demanding to have a mumps vaccine in the first place!

... why would I introduce a wild card that could POSSIBLY harm my children?

Based on pure logic of probabilities I rejected MUMPS vaccines after deducing this information.

I can see NO BENEFIT from a MUMPS vaccine.


-----------

RUBELLA

As part of the 1 by 1 investigations of childhood disease vaccines...

Let's Discuss Rubella or German Measles / "Tigdas Hangin"

A baby of mine had Rubella at less than 1 year old.  She looked horrible for a day or two.  But then it went away.

At first there was some concern.  Mom took her to the MD. 

The MD said it was "Tigdas Hangin" / German Measles / Rubella... and that there was NOTHING to worry about... it will go away.

Nannie  said it was nothing.

Grandma said it was nothing.

Elder sister who has 3 kids living with them and all 3 had Rubella themselves said it was nothing.

Neighbours and best friend said it was nothing.

So since almost everyone said Tigdas Hangin was nothing serious... I stopped worrying myself.

So why would I vaccinate for Rubella when it is supposed to be a nothing? 

Why RISK injecting a liquid concoction made by a factory from a far away land with weird formulations in them?

In 2014 / 2015 this Rubella vaccine is just part of MMR... a cocktail of 3 drugs...

In my logic of probabilities... the MMR vaccine is a wild card... which has probabilities and reports of side effects... could be major side effects... so by virtue of PURE LOGIC... a Rubella vaccine for my future babies is to be REJECTED.

I can see NO BENEFIT from a Rubella vaccine.


What is your take on Rubella?
 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 04:57:37 pm by goodsamaritan »
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2015, 12:06:06 am »
To Answer G.S. and anyone else who may what to debate the merits of certain vaccines, here is a what I think about mumps and rubella

Everyone had gotten the mumps back in the hills where my people came from, nobody ever had any complications from it. My great grandmother was taking care of my mother and her siblings when they had gotten it, and she was in her 40s at the time when she contracted it from them. She was a tough old bird, recovered just fine and didn't have any issues from it at all, ended up living to age 86, and was vibrant and energetic before she was murdered by a stupid doctor who decided to remove a benign lump on her breast and poison her to death with chemo and radiation.

Rubella is something else that is rather harmless in the vast majority of people, and the vaccine was introduced primarily on a whim of its creator who cultured the virus from his daughter and took it back to the lab to create a vaccine, for his own motives. Its been sold under the threat that new borns who get it are at high risk of complications. The mother of my children has had multiple rubella vaccines, because whenever they test her antibodies for it, it shows she lacks immunity. She has autoimmune issues as well, that could explain why her body rejects the antibodies from the vaccine. When our first child was born the doctors cornered her when I wasn't around and practically forced her to get inoculated right after labor. A week later both her and the baby developed the rubella rash on their cheeks, and she developed inflammation of the hip, which lasted for two months. Arthritis( especially of the hip), and autoimmune issues are a common side effect of rubella vaccination.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 12:14:44 am by sabertooth »
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Offline ciervo-chaman

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Re: Vaccination
« Reply #99 on: February 13, 2015, 02:33:38 am »
if you believe that the cause of disease are bacteria/virus/microorganisms, so, all this thing of vaccination makes sense, if you don't believe that, does it makes sense?

 

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