Author Topic: Dairy indecision  (Read 10167 times)

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Offline sabertooth

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Dairy indecision
« on: October 11, 2015, 07:36:20 am »
I've been a long time skeptic of Dairy being a food that is right for everyone, yet i reconize that under certain surcumstances certain individuals can do well with it.

Early on into my paleo transition I eliminated dairy from my diet. I use to eat processed yogurt and pasteurized milk with cereal for years and looking back it seems like dairy was causing me issues. I did drink raw milk and ate raw cheese intermittently early into the paleo diet transition, but I noticed negative effects if I used more than just a small amount, so I would limit it. I would get mucus stools and a bloated feeling.

More recently Ive been interested in finding ways to mitigate dairy intolerance, and followed Vitalis by using colostrum. The first case of it tasted wonderful and I had no issues with it. After a couple of weeks I ordered a bulk container of it and for some reason it didn't taste as good as the first batch. Not sure why?

A farmer friend had actually saved some raw sheep colostrum, I had the opportunity to drink some, and it was some awesome stuff. Tasted like a sweet creamy custard. She also had milking goats so I would get a little goats milk when i would get my sheep. I feel like Ive lost my intolerance to milk and started drinking it more often.

My dilemma right now is that I do not seem to have the negative digestive side effects and feel good when drinking milk, but there seems to be a kind of withdraw effect after a day without any? I recently run out and decided to take a break from it and am debating on if I should get any more or wait. I got a headache and fatigued depressed feeling, I feel a little better today, but still have a strong urge to go out and buy some more. I'm not sure exactly if its a withdraw from the opioids, or the milk sugars, or some combination of factors.

It seems my normally well attuned instinctual mechanisms are a bit confused on what to do next?   
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 07:41:38 am by sabertooth »
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2015, 07:49:44 am »
3 weeks of raw milk fasting helped fix my son's damaged intestines some 3 years ago.

Dairy is tasty.  Keep experimenting.

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2015, 07:52:57 am »
Milk is designed by Nature to be addictive. It is designed to not have much of an instinctive stop, so baby mammals will drink a lot of it and grow quickly.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2015, 08:38:01 am »
In nature the mother will know when to ween its young, but for a 32 year old man with a life long history of dairy addiction, exercising moderation is difficult. It seems like the only options which have worked in the past have been complete abstinence or to binge drink with reckless abandon, until negative effects curb my hunger for it.

Perhaps being a binge drinker of milk isn't so bad, so long as I know when its time to dry out for a while.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2015, 09:47:39 am »
My concern is that the excess calcium is bad for cardiovascular health. Also, don't studies show it lowers bone mass, or some such?

All that to say, I do use it from time to time, but I'll go months without it, and I usually only have curdled cream or butter, never just fresh milk.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2015, 09:54:37 am »
Binge drinking means the raw dairy is too readily available.

I restrict my children's dairy by only getting some raw milk to whenever we go up the mountain 2 hours away.  Probably 2x a month or less. Subject to the availability of the cow.
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Offline eveheart

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2015, 01:25:57 pm »
I had some issues with low potassium intake when I was eating a very low carb diet. That got me thinking about your situation. If you need more potassium, maybe that explains why you are attracted to milk, for the potassium in it. Why not try getting a load of potassium from juices or something that your girlfriend suggests and see if that satisfies you when you don't drink milk.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2015, 01:55:09 pm »
The big trouble with foods one is allergic to is that they commonly have an addictive effect on the brain, causing further cravings for the very food one is allergic to.This applies especially to dairy, grains and cooked foods as all 3 contain additional addictive opioids directly affecting the brain.

I recently also thought I had lost my allergenicity towards raw dairy but it turned out to be a false diagnosis.I also got the cravings so it was fortunate that my local store only had 6 litres of raw milk a week on offer. I would strongly advise anyone who has even the slightest negative effect from raw dairy to give it up completely. Yes, I know that some people will insist that they do fine on raw butter etc. or whatever than other types of raw dairy, but it is a very bad sign, imo. At the very least, those who have not recovered their health yet should be much stricter re this rule.

If you cannot avoid it, I would suggest fermenting the raw dairy at the very least.
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2015, 01:08:58 am »
I had some issues with low potassium intake when I was eating a very low carb diet. That got me thinking about your situation. If you need more potassium, maybe that explains why you are attracted to milk, for the potassium in it. Why not try getting a load of potassium from juices or something that your girlfriend suggests and see if that satisfies you when you don't drink milk.

I also believe there may be a mineral imbalance aspect which originally got me thinking about dairy on a subconscious level. I also have been craving  shellfish, and recently found a place where I can get good oysters. I also should mention that like the maassai, I have been drinking much of my milk with blood, and find that there is a certain synergy with those to foods which may help to mitigate some of the adverse gut symptoms of dairy I have had in the past.

I would also mention that the strange combination of milk, blood, and oysters have seemed to reactivated parts of my mind that have been dormant for sometime. The opiates, minerals, milk sugars and fatty acids have bombarded my brain, and are affecting it in interesting ways. My main concern is that this could be simply an early stage of dependency in which the benefits quickly diminish and then one becomes burned out.

The hangover effect when the milk runs out is something that concerns me, but today I woke up feeling good, and seem to have readjusted to my regular routine without any dairy for three days. Though I will be still drinking blood and am about to go get a dozen oysters.
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Offline Satya

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2015, 05:15:05 am »
The hangover effect when the milk runs out is something that concerns me, but today I woke up feeling good, and seem to have readjusted to my regular routine without any dairy for three days. Though I will be still drinking blood and am about to go get a dozen oysters.

Love me some oysters!  Best food ever, if you ask me.

That hangover effect reminds me of how I feel on wheat.  Could well be opioids.  Dairy indecision could be the title to the story of my life.  :o

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2015, 05:33:50 am »
This reminds me. I have virtually given up dairy, however raw, but I sometimes eat sandwiches with raw  or smoked stuff in them. No more gluten either!
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline svrn

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2015, 10:31:59 am »
Mucus and symptoms like that from raw dairy are just detox. Dont listen to loiuse pasteurs theories of symptoms being the problem. Bechamp was right in saying that colds and flu and the like are caused by toxins in the body and are your bodies way of cleansing it out. It is not fun but is necaessary, embrace it.

I had a lot of symptoms when starting raw dairy but they quickly subsided and i felt better than ever after drinking it constantly.

I cant live without it. When i dont get it i have insatiable hunger that refuses to go away no matter how much I eat of anything else. I feel terrible without it. I feel incredibly storng with it.

Some like to say it is addictions but as someone currently addicted to nicotine it is such a joke to me. I crave tobacco throughout the day but when I dont smoke i feel better and stronger and as soon as i have it again after a while i feel a bit dirty, that is what I call addiction. When I dont drink milk i feel intense hunger that never goes away and i feel weaker with less energy the whole time. As soon as I drink some milk wafter not having it a while I feel invigorated.

Theres a big difference.
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Offline svrn

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2015, 10:34:07 am »
im not sure if excess calcium is really that harmful.
If you are then make sure to drink your raw vegetable juice daily, celery parsley and cilantro, tons of magnesium...you should be drinking that anyway.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2015, 10:40:24 am »
When I dont drink milk i feel intense hunger that never goes away and i feel weaker with less energy the whole time. As soon as I drink some milk wafter not having it a while I feel invigorated.


I had the exact same symptoms re massive cravings and would feel delightfully invigorated too after drinking raw milk, but in the end I found I was allergic to the stuff.Cravings for the same food one is allergic to are very common.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2015, 11:04:17 am »
im not sure if excess calcium is really that harmful.
If you are then make sure to drink your raw vegetable juice daily, celery parsley and cilantro, tons of magnesium...you should be drinking that anyway.

Milk has cal to mag in a 12:1 ratio. We need more like 1:1 or 1:2. That's an extreme imbalance.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2015, 08:13:04 am »
I wonder what is the optimal calcium to magnesium ratio in blood? Perhaps drinking blood with milk could be a way to more optimally balance out the minerals?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 12:48:34 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline van

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2015, 08:32:46 am »
my experience with baby goats is that after a few days they are already nibbling on springs young grasses,, full of mg.  Hence that is where they get their balance of ca. to mg.  I bet you're right about blood having a better balance, but if you find it lacking, you might eat more good tasting greens and seaweed.  I still count on low sodium concentrated sea water from Australia for much my mg.  along with greens that taste good and seaweed. 

Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2015, 05:16:01 am »
I see ZERO reason to drink milk, unless you had no other means of survival... and you should think twice about drinking milk and blood... unless your trying to become a sumo wrestler...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZf7DESlAEU

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2015, 04:25:14 am »
One must not always jump to the extremes when forming the rules...

I believe that there may indeed be some merit in mixing blood with milk and consuming it regularly. Perhaps not in such excess as the Fat Men of Ethiopia....But from the stand point of naturalistic nutrition there are a number of people whom may have great benefits from adding raw milk and blood.

We have a large number of Geriatric people whom are emaciated and malnourished, and its standard practice to give them mixed processed meal supplement shakes such as "Ensure", to keep them from wasting away. I dare say that these people whom are wilting away, due to a number of conditions, which are not well treated by modern medicine, could be more optimally nourished by such a practice, followed up with additional dietary and lifestyle support.

Sadly since blood and milk shakes cant be patented and sold for criminal sums of money, such treatments will likely never even be investigated.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2015, 04:31:02 am by sabertooth »
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Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2015, 05:54:10 am »
That sounds like an extreme case of malnurishment, and zero evidence to suggest milk and blood is the best fix, or even a fix at all. Your statement is a logical fallacy... This group of people X, are malnuurished... Therefore they should drink blood and milk...

Offline van

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2015, 07:04:31 am »
That sounds like an extreme case of malnurishment, and zero evidence to suggest milk and blood is the best fix, or even a fix at all. Your statement is a logical fallacy... This group of people X, are malnuurished... Therefore they should drink blood and milk...
   are you trying to be antagonistic  here?   Seems like you're trying to find opposition for some reason?

Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2015, 07:57:24 am »
   are you trying to be antagonistic  here?   Seems like you're trying to find opposition for some reason?

No nothing is said should be considered antagonistic... how is holding people accountable for their theories and claims antagonistic...

Person A: What color is the sky?

Person B: Purple.

Person A: Can you provide any proof?

Person B: Hey! Stop antagonizing me!

Offline eveheart

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2015, 09:00:56 am »
No nothing is said should be considered antagonistic... how is holding people accountable for their theories and claims antagonistic...

This is a forum, a place where people can exchange ideas about various topics. There is no moral obligation involved when it comes to exchanging ideas. Some of our ideas come from our own experiences. How can someone be held "accountable" for his own experience? The ideas themselves are sufficient.
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Offline A_Tribe_Called_Paleo

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #23 on: October 21, 2015, 09:03:13 am »
fair enough. no sense in arguing anymore.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Dairy indecision
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2015, 10:06:38 am »
fair enough. no sense in arguing anymore.

Damn straight, boss. We are light years ahead of you on nutrition, and always will be. Go argue with people on a forum about a topic you really care about, and leave this to the diehard mad scientists around here.

 

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