Author Topic: Raw Paleo Since Weaning  (Read 10148 times)

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Craig

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Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« on: May 05, 2008, 01:24:55 pm »
I've wondered that if everyone were raised on a paleo diet since weaning, if we'd all be the same. That's is to say that we'd all be able to handle paleo-type carbs or go long periods without carbs and have no problems. In someone like myself, my islet cells would have never been over-worked and I could probably handle paleo carbs now. Similarly, those who don't do well without carbs would probably be able to run on fat, because whatever fat utilization hormones/glands/etc. wouldn't have been overworked or damaged. Our ancestors did it. They both ate some carbs when available and survived on meat and fat in the winter.

Craig

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2008, 05:14:36 am »
Interesting ideas. There's a lot of variables that could have come into play other than diet, general lifestyle things. Stress and environmental pollutants probably don't help digestive ability at all.

I'd be really interested to see how myself and others would LOOK if we were raised on a paleo type diet. Even with some cooked foods and non-paleo foods, just a healthy non-GMO low carb high raw type diet. I imagine our facial features would be a little different, we would probably be a little taller, what else?

xylothrill

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2008, 08:15:01 am »
We'd probably be taller, thinner (some of us), have bigger brains and broader faces with almost no one needing braces or fillings. Which reminds me - I'm sure you're familiar with Weston Price's e-book "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration"  If not, here's a link for anyone who hasn't read it:
http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html

I honestly do believe that the stress we encounter today was not a part paleo life. Back then, they lived day to day and probably only encountered the fight or flight response when they actually had to fight or flee. They might have been stressed when food was in short supply but there was something they could do about that. Go looking for food. Today, we get stressed over that which we cannot control or do anything about. We get the F or F response but we can't fight, flee nor do anything about it, leaving us in an unnaturally constant, stressed state.

Craig

Offline Justin

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2008, 01:02:44 pm »
I hear that Craig. It seems everything is meticulously controlled to benefit the upper one percent while the rest of us are gridlocked in the system they created. I'm hoping for some change, but that's only going to happen when enough good people get together and discuss the matters at hand on how to take control of our own lives and well-being.
"You can train long or you can train hard, but you can't do both." -Arthur Jones.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2008, 03:28:45 pm »
I think that that there would be a lot more stocky people, broader shoulders, thicker necks and in some ethnic groups shorter.

Does anybody here agree with me that a high carb, high protein diet can produce very intelligent people and end up in vocations such as IT/academics/scientists?

where as more Weston price type people end up more likely be gardeners and tradesman.

I'm aware of my massive over generalisations! but just going on my observations...









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Offline mors01

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2008, 02:01:08 am »
wodgina6722:

Why do you think that a high-carb, high-protein diet is better for intelligence, than a high-fat high-protein diet?
Is it because "carbs are the best fuel for the brain"?

I've always been interested in the effect of diet on mental performance. I spend a lot of time at a desk
doing physics/math research, so this is of practical use to me.

A high-fat moderate-protein diet has improved my concentration by a lot (relative to Wai diet).

-Mike

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2008, 02:52:51 am »
I was under the impression that fats are the most important macro-nutrients for the brain.

Offline Bobbie

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2008, 12:51:27 pm »
I think being raised on a paleo diet would make most people shorter - insulin is a growth hormone, and eating high GI processed food like white bread, sugary cereals, and potato fries releases much more insulin, hence people grow taller.  This is why the latest generation is taller than their parents.  Along with all the growth hormones in milk.  If you're eating a paleo diet with no milk past weaning and all low GI foods (except fruit which still can't compete with junk food in the GI charts) then you're not going to grow as tall.  Children who were small for their age on a standard diet would probably grow taller on a paleo diet due to the high level of nutrients, and curing any health problems, and so would end up average height.  However I don't think anyone would grow "tall".  Stoneage people were around 5'5" (women) and 5'9" (men).  They were taller than the early farmers (eating wholegrains so also on low gi diets, which contained far less nutrients) but they weren't tall by modern standards. 

Didn't Weston Price discover that people on traditional diets were broader and shorter, and refined grains and sugar produced people with thinner skeletons who were taller?  The former tended to be all the same height and shape, whereas the latter were all different.  Pottenger's cats also, showed uniformity in size in the healthy group, while the unhealthy group were all different and tended to have overly long back legs. 

Loren Cordain encourages his children to eat potatoes, dried fruit and yams, so as not to disadvantage them heightwise in our modern society, even though he says high glyceamic diets in childhood also increase risk of heart disease in adulthood.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2008, 04:40:00 pm »
I think being raised on a paleo diet would make most people shorter - insulin is a growth hormone, and eating high GI processed food like white bread, sugary cereals, and potato fries releases much more insulin, hence people grow taller.  This is why the latest generation is taller than their parents.  Along with all the growth hormones in milk.  If you're eating a paleo diet with no milk past weaning and all low GI foods (except fruit which still can't compete with junk food in the GI charts) then you're not going to grow as tall.  Children who were small for their age on a standard diet would probably grow taller on a paleo diet due to the high level of nutrients, and curing any health problems, and so would end up average height.  However I don't think anyone would grow "tall".  Stoneage people were around 5'5" (women) and 5'9" (men).  They were taller than the early farmers (eating wholegrains so also on low gi diets, which contained far less nutrients) but they weren't tall by modern standards. 

Didn't Weston Price discover that people on traditional diets were broader and shorter, and refined grains and sugar produced people with thinner skeletons who were taller?  The former tended to be all the same height and shape, whereas the latter were all different.  Pottenger's cats also, showed uniformity in size in the healthy group, while the unhealthy group were all different and tended to have overly long back legs. 

Loren Cordain encourages his children to eat potatoes, dried fruit and yams, so as not to disadvantage them heightwise in our modern society, even though he says high glyceamic diets in childhood also increase risk of heart disease in adulthood.

I don't know where you got this information but it's dead wrong! Here's a link showing that we've only recently regained most of the height we lost in the Neolithic, and, even then our average height is less than that of our Palaeolithic ancestors. According to this standard chart:-
http://www.beyondveg.com/nicholson-w/angel-1984/angel-1984-1a.shtml
http://tinyurl.com/2u3xhs


modern humans' average height for males is 5ft 8.6 inches, with modern women averaging 5ft 4.3 inches, with our Palaeo male ancestors averaging 5 ft 9.7 inches, and Palaeolithic women averaging 5ft 5.6 inches. This is even more impressive when you consider that the above statistics for "modern humans" refers only to the average height of US Whites in the 80s - if the average figures for modern humans also included the heights of Chinese and other shorter-than-average peoples, then the difference in height between Palaeo humans and the shorter modern humans becomes far  more impressive.

As for why we are not as short as in the Neolithic, I think that's primarily due to stuffing ourselves with nutrients, thus making it much less likely that we end up with stunted growth due to malnutrition. Now, our Palaeolithic ancestors had to constantly contend with famine conditions whenever their food-supply temporarily ran out, so, IMO, it's extremely likely that our Palaeolithic ancestors would have had an even taller average height if they had had a plentiful food-supply.

Re Weston-Price:- Quite a number of the groups he studied were actually pretty tall(eg:- the Masai). I think the only ones who were short were grain-eaters, and the like.




« Last Edit: May 27, 2008, 04:42:07 pm by TylerDurden »
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xylothrill

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2008, 06:45:43 pm »
I think that that there would be a lot more stocky people, broader shoulders, thicker necks and in some ethnic groups shorter.

Does anybody here agree with me that a high carb, high protein diet can produce very intelligent people and end up in vocations such as IT/academics/scientists?

where as more Weston price type people end up more likely be gardeners and tradesman.

I'm aware of my massive over generalisations! but just going on my observations...

It can and does happen but I believe that it's the personality traits that lead them to their various diets and vocations rather than their diets being responsible for their career choice. Most people practicing Weston Price type diets choose their diets after they've grown and developed so I don't think it would be as much of a factor in intelligence. The same could be said for vegetarians becoming gardeners and tradesmen, don't you think?

Craig











Offline wodgina

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2008, 08:07:19 pm »
I don't think really articulated thoughts well in the second half of that post.

Andrew















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Offline Bobbie

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2008, 09:31:19 pm »
The average heights for modern humans include the elderly and middleaged generations - who were not raised on extremely high GI diets plus milk pumped full of artificial growth hormones (which as well as increasing height are causing girls to start puberty at 8 or 9).  I've no doubt that a paleo diet would make people taller than the diet my grandparents were raised on.  But I don't believe they would grow as tall as generation X.

The Masai and Neurs were really tall but they consumed masses of raw milk every day.  Their cows weren't injected with growth hormones but natural milk still contains growth factors, and studies have shown children who drink milk grow taller than those who don't.  Another studie showed that raw milk increased height 50 -70% more than pasteurised milk.  Paleo diets don't contain milk past weaning. 
Weston Price considered the Dinkas, an African tribe who ate a balanced diet with no extremes and who were shorter than the Masai, to be the healthiest group. 

The average height in Holland is now six feet one for men and five feet eight for women, and it's always said to be because of their high dairy intake. 

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2008, 09:52:35 pm »
The average heights for modern humans include the elderly and middleaged generations - who were not raised on extremely high GI diets plus milk pumped full of artificial growth hormones (which as well as increasing height are causing girls to start puberty at 8 or 9).  I've no doubt that a paleo diet would make people taller than the diet my grandparents were raised on.  But I don't believe they would grow as tall as generation X.


You're  forgetting that the elderly were , indeed, raised on high-GI diets(especially during the war(eg:- potatoes/rice) years and for some years afterwards, due to rationing etc.)Plus, many of my immediate ancestors were raised on diets high in dairy(much of it  raw in rural areas), but did not  gain  vast increases in height as a result(by comparison to their immediate ancestors).

As for girls increasing in height, that is usually linked to pesticides and other substances similiar in chemical form to human hormones, not to dairy, raw or otherwise.

So, IMO, the supposed link between dairy and height, still doesn't explain why Palaeo peoples are much taller than modern humans.

Plus.it's been pointed out that the only reason why the US average height has decreased, vis-a-vis the Dutch, is because of increased immigration of shorter-than-average immigrants.

Another major point to consider is that Neolithic peoples dramatically shrunk in terms of average height as soon as they went in for fermented grains and raw dairy instead of meats/organ-meats, thus indicating very  strongly that raw dairy could not possibly be responsible for an ncrease in height - if it were, one would expect the raw dairy to negate the negative effects of the fermented grains to a large extent, which is clearly not the case.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2008, 12:08:30 am by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Satya

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2008, 10:43:35 pm »
I think that that there would be a lot more stocky people, broader shoulders, thicker necks and in some ethnic groups shorter.

Stocky, shorter people are better cold adapted.  At least that is what I have read.  It does make sense and may be why I am short and stocky as my ancestors all come from Northern Europe (like above 57 degrees N).  My bones are extremely dense and thick, and even my ears have more cartilage thickness than my taller, lankier spouse. 

Norwegians are tall though, aren't they?  I suppose with migration these traits are blended more.  So I would agree that away from the tropics and/or with any ice age this would be the trend to varying degrees.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/121630/climatic-adaptation
"Cold adaptation is of three types: adaptation to extreme cold, moderate cold, and night cold. Extreme cold favours short, round persons with short arms and legs, flat faces with fat pads over the sinuses, narrow noses, and a heavier-than-average layer of body fat. These adaptations provide minimum surface area in relation to body mass for minimum heat loss, minimum heat loss in the extremities (which allows manual dexterity during exposure to cold and guards against frostbite), and protection of the lungs and base of the brain against cold air in the nasal passages. Moderate cold favours the tall, stockily built individual with moderate body fat and a narrow nose, for similar reasons. Night cold—often part of a desert environment, where inhabitants must be able to withstand hot, dry daytime conditions as well as cold at night—favours increased metabolic activity to warm the body during sleep."
« Last Edit: May 28, 2008, 10:54:16 pm by Satya »

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2008, 12:10:18 am »
Scandinavians are all generally tall -the only exception would be the (non-ethnic-Swedish) peoples living in Finland, as they only recently emigrated to Scandinavia(by comparison to other groups) - no idea how tall they are.
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Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2008, 04:51:37 am »
Scandinavians are tall and thick, not tall and thin. So half cold adapted, half adapted to killing the faces of other Europeans with axes for centuries  ;)

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2008, 05:28:29 am »
Finns consume a lot of dairy, more so than most other European countries, so it would be interesting to see if they are as tall as other Scandinavians.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
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Offline Saku

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2008, 12:44:46 am »
I am a Finn and I live in Finland and thats true, the Finns consume huge amounts of milk, uncredible amounts.
But the Finns are not taller als other Scandinavian people maybe the contrary. The osteoporosis in Finland is very common  by feminines but by men as well. All in all finnish population and health status is more than poor.Too much milk ( all pasteurised) and too much bread, too little fat nor meat nor  organs, in other words
people have no energy to thrive. So sorry.

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2008, 01:19:06 am »
That's what i figured. I mean the Swedish minority in Finland would presumably be tall like other Scandinavians, but the main Finns are Ugric peoples who are not usually that tall(eg:- Hungarians).
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2008, 10:12:34 am »
Although I not well traveled!
The shortest people I've ever come across are immigrant vietenamese mainly the ones who can't speak english well. They are tiny! I've also notice that even though they are tiny they almost always have the widest faces, wide palates with amazing teeth.
The tallest are definatley the Danes.
The Maori are the biggest, tall and broad.

Andrew
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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2009, 01:37:58 am »
    I wonder what exact effect raw blood drinking since weaning has on them, or would have on anyone else.


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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2009, 04:47:26 pm »
We'd be better looking. Younger looking skin, no need for glasses, no bumps in nose bridges, straight teeth, proportioned limbs, thick hair, less body fat, no acne.

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Re: Raw Paleo Since Weaning
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2009, 06:13:45 pm »
Very nice video.  ;D
Do you have any recommendations on drinking cow blood?
How much, how often?
I get muscle blood and liver blood.
Maybe I can get some fresh blood at the slaughter house.
How long does cow blood keep in the refrigerator?

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