Author Topic: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater  (Read 16762 times)

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2015, 10:23:39 am »
My point is that it doesn't all boil down to pH. Chlorine kills bacteria, yeast, algae and other living tissue because it is a chemical toxin, not simply because of it's acidity. You can get a certain level of pH by dissolving arsenic acid into water, or do the same with lemon juice. They're not equally toxic.

Dario, chlorine is the 8th or 9th most common element in your body.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2015, 10:24:44 pm »
Interestingly, mainstream science shows how chlorine(or related compounds) can be harmful:-


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4351252/

My own stance re this is that Viennese water tastes fine to me so I will endure the issue of chlorine as I think they likely use smaller amounts than elsewhere. Whatever the case, Viennese tapwater tastes great while London tapwater  always tasted foul due to constant recycling.

The other issue is PH value. I find PH 7 or below mineral water to taste not very good. Plus, according to what I have read elsewhere, people in palaeo times would normally drink water with a highish PH value(well, actually  7.2 to 8.4 or so). I used to get hold of PH value 8.4 mineral water from the Welsh Hills(Brecon Beacons?) - the stuff really invigorated me and I always felt marvellous afterwards.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2015, 01:08:33 am »
That study was about the effects of BREATHING chlorine gas that is off-gassing from swimming pools. That's not the same as drinking it. At all. Of course our lungs aren't designed to handle chlorine gas. However, our stomach acid is MOSTLY ChLORINE, for pete's sake.

Offline Iguana

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2015, 01:24:20 am »
In water, chlorine reacts to form hypochlorous acid  (HOCI).
Our stomach acid is hydrochloric acid (HCL).
Different compounds, different properties (once again)!
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2015, 02:09:37 am »
In water, chlorine reacts to form hypochlorous acid  (HOCI).
Our stomach acid is hydrochloric acid (HCL).
Different compounds, different properties (once again)!


So what harm can you prove, or even show any suggestion of? Because it looks like you have absolutely no proof of any harm, or anything that even resembles proof.

Offline Iguana

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2015, 02:34:21 am »
I don't have to prove anything, HOCI is a strong disinfectant and YOU have to prove it's not harmful, since you pretend it's not. 

The charge of such proof should belong to the ones who introduce new chemicals into our food and water. If this rule were respected, there wouldn't be so many pesticides, food additives and so on.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2015, 04:16:25 am »
I don't have to prove anything, HOCI is a strong disinfectant and YOU have to prove it's not harmful, since you pretend it's not. 

The charge of such proof should belong to the ones who introduce new chemicals into our food and water. If this rule were respected, there wouldn't be so many pesticides, food additives and so on.

ROFL ok then. You clearly Googled it, found no proof, and are hoping I'll somehow be stupid enough to not see that. LOL

Come on, Francois. You know me better than that.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2015, 04:28:41 am »
Actually, upon googling it, it looks like chlorine reacting with organic material in water produces trihalomethanes, which appear to at least be associated with slightly increased risk of bladder and rectal cancer. It may also help to cause arteriosclerosis.

I'm now concerned. Although cancer doesn't run in my family at ALL, strokes and heart disease so badly do. I've even had a number of small strokes.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2015, 04:52:46 am »
Upon looking further, while the cancer links are clear, the heart disease and stroke connection does not appear to have any actual support beyond one book 50 years ago. It appears to be a correlation only.

But it still predisposes people to  bladder and rectal cancer. People with family histories of those cancers should stop drinking it, even on this diet.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2015, 06:21:19 am »
Most of us here are just as concerned with embracing what is optimal, as in avoiding what is potentially harmful. There are plenty of anecdotal cases of people living in caner belt communities where the water is heavily chlorinated, as well as contaminated with a myriad of other kinds of industrial and agricultural waste....... while at the same time there is a much lower incidence of such conditions in places such as the Netherlands where the water is free of such contamination.

In my life I am exposed to 100 fold more harmful substances than in most tap water on a regular basis, but I also realize that being made up of mostly water and drinking nearly a gallon a day, that its important that it is pure.

One must also consider that much of the produce and even the meat we consume whither it be from a family farm or a factory farm is often produced with fluoridated, chlorinated and who knows what else in the water. These things build up in the soil as well as the bodies of the animals and plants we consume. At the same time it is already proven that trace elements and vital minerals are being depleted, so there is reason to believe that there is a great ecological imbalance upon many fronts, though its been so gradual and is confounded by so many other factors....

I liken what is occurring in many parts of the world with subtle contamination.... to the tadpole raised in chlorinated, roundup runoff, fluoride laced, BPA fish bowl water, that has grown into the retarded frog which calmly allows itself to be boiled alive.

Industry science is not engaged in determining what is optimal for the well being of the individual human so these imbalances go largely undocumented.... the writing is on the wall when it comes to the harm being done... and anyone with an IQ higher than a fluoridated frog should know that drinking chlorine laced water is not an optimal health practice.

Thinking about frogs soaking in water reminds me that we also bath in the stuff...... chlorine and fluoride does indeed soak in through the skin... I use shower filters, and am in the process of setting up an oak barrel rain water collection tank to do some cold soaking in....I wire up swimming pools for a living and the companies around here have been doing a mass exodus from using traditional chlorine treatments....and are switching to salt systems, which generate pure chlorine from salt, in much lower amounts than in traditional chlorine treatments, while burning out many of the chemical impurities which are actually more harmful than the chlorine. I can vouch that the water in salt treated pools has no chlorine smell nor does it bleach the skin or burn the eyes. There are even more expensive colloidal copper generators for pools, but because of the cost we don't install them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_water_chlorination
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 06:45:11 am by sabertooth »
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2015, 07:48:16 am »
Swimming in chlorine is a different issue. It is unquestionably bad for the lungs.

On another note, I'm surprised that there even needs to be a colloidal copper generator. Wouldn't the copper saturate after a while? It's not like it evaporates. Maybe it deposits on surfaces and stays there.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2015, 08:12:32 am »
I assume that in colloidal systems the water still must run through a main filtration system which screens out some of the colloidal elements, and also when the colloids combine with a microbe they become bound up and thus need to be regularly replaced.

The technology for producing clean water on a large scale without chemical disinfectants has been around for quite some time, only there is a huge resistance against implementing and funding the necessary changes. Basically most People are cheap and would rather pay 30 dollars a month for chlorinated water than to pay 60 dollars a month for water treated with colloidal elements, ozone and ionization.

Where water is run by the unholy alliance of government and big business there is little incentive to put up the initial cost to change these outdated systems...with this world wide depression thing and endless war against everything going on......

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2015, 08:31:55 am »
"Endless war against everything". I like it.

As far as people being too damn cheap to even protect their health, I hear you.

Offline dariorpl

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2015, 06:13:34 pm »
What's paleo about colloidal systems? Metals that kill bacteria are causing metal poisoning. Why assume that you need to kill the bacteria in the first place? Just replace the water frequently to get rid of the toxins people discharge through their skin when they go in the pool. And then using any kind of untreated, uncontaminated water such as underground well water, rain water (though not in cities where it picks up all the toxins in the air), or spring water if you happen to live next to one. Unless you're swimming in the ocean, you should ideally be able to safely drink from the same water you bathe in.

If something is toxic to your intestines, don't feed it to your skin. And vice-versa.

If you can only access chlorinated tap water, what you can do is add clay or epsom salts to bind with the toxic chemicals.
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2015, 01:16:58 am »
There is nothing paleo about any municipal water treatment system, I am simply making the point that if you are going to live in a city and use tap water then there are much better ways of keeping it safe than using chemical disinfectants

Colloidal copper and silver systems are proven to be non toxic to multicelluar organisms in the low concentrations used in water purification systems, while at the same time very effective against single cell organisms which swamp up municipal water lines. Colloidal elements are at such microscopic concentrations and the particle sizes are so small that they do not cause the kind of metal poisoning you are imagining..... especially when compared to sodium aluminum fluoride, and the multitude of chlorine compounds which are now in much of the modern worlds tap.

Without any kind of treatment only the purest water would not need any treatment to keep algae and other scum from building up in the pipes, but in most areas water needs to be recycled and cleaned, after being inundated with all sorts of waste, in cesspool sewage plants.

None of this indoor plumbing stuff is paleo or ideal but it is reality for the majority of people here, so for those who do use tap water it is wise to be educated about the alternatives.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 01:30:30 am by sabertooth »
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Offline dariorpl

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2015, 02:27:20 am »
Colloidal copper and silver systems are proven to be non toxic to multicelluar organisms in the low concentrations used in water purification systems, while at the same time very effective against single cell organisms which swamp up municipal water lines.

Proven by who? The same people who say that raw meat will kill you? This came out today: http://www.who.int/foodsafety/publications/foodborne_disease/fergreport/en/ - they say 420,000 people die every year due to foodborne illnesses, and they blame most of them on bacteria and parasites from raw meat, eggs and the like.

We depend on microorganisms to survive. If this metal is killing them then, at the very least it's acting like an antibiotic.

To this day doctors are still saying that mercury in amalgams and in vaccines is safe, and in the past they've said the same about high dose mercury injections, cooking in lead pots, you name it.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 02:34:11 am by dariorpl »
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2015, 03:55:04 am »
My mind is open to any and all evidence...... from my research there isn't any known issue with using colloidal silver or copper as an anti microbial agent, and if you combine it with ozone, ionization and high tech filtration the amount of colloids that would need be be used would be absolutely minimal.

If you can come across any evidence to the contrary please post it here....

In extreme cases of overuse of colloidal silver the only side effect was turning a little blue, but you would have to take hundreds of thousands of times the levels that would be used in these advanced water treatment systems. Try taking a hundred thousand times the amount of chlorine in your typically treated tap water and Id bet you would be much worse off than the Blue man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq8C0GknwAM

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2015, 04:09:11 am »
Apparently, the combination of a little copper and chlorine in the water causes blond hair to turn green.... Not sure if this is a toxic effect per se.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2015, 12:21:50 am »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3339996/Top-scientist-warns-health-timebomb-caused-prescription-drugs-washed-drains.html

We often go on about what foods to eat on this diet, but what we drink is often not mentioned. This is a mistake. For example, tapwater in London quickly tasted so disgusting once I went rawpalaeo that I was forced to drink water from high-alkaline/high-PH-value mineral water from then on or end up losing my appetite for raw animal foods as well. London tapwater is notorious for having passed through an average of 8 human bladders prior to reaching you. Here in Vienna, we get PH 7.8 tapwater which comes from Alpine streams so tastes fine, and I drink it all the time as Austrian mineral-water in bottles is  too neutral in taste and PH value.

Good reminder.
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Offline NuclearKnight

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2016, 11:20:23 am »
If my tap water (west coast of Florida) doesn't affect the bacteria and yeast in fermented food and drink, is it safe to assume the water can't be that bad?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2016, 06:16:07 pm »
Depends where you live. I googled Vienna's water quality quite easily. Hmm, if by west coast of Florida, you mean Pensacola, you would best consider avoiding all tapwater!

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/41354370/ns/business-going_green/t/us-cities-worst-drinking-water/#.VxdkdVT3O9U

http://srwqis.tamu.edu/florida/program-information/florida-target-themes/drinking-water-and-human-health/
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Offline NuclearKnight

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Re: RPDers urged not to drink from tapwater
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2016, 10:05:28 pm »
I'm from Pasco County, Florida.

Sometimes I wonder if water rich foods are better sources of hydration than "pure" water. Melon fruits (full of electrolytes) are so watery they feel more like beverages than meals to me.

 

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