Author Topic: Am I fat adapted?  (Read 18509 times)

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Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2009, 05:32:02 am »
The stupid caveman idea gets tiring. The could have been more intelligent, must have had forsight and may have been capable of all we do. How much work does it take to throw olives in a tidal pool and cover them?

I'm not arguing that they couldn't do it, I'm asking why would they? They didn't have any salads to need olive oil and vinegar dressing.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2009, 07:01:35 am »
I've come across several cases. Those were to cooked meat, though. You've got to bear in mind that even though red-meat-allergy isn't one of the top 5 food-allergies, it's a fact that allergy-rates have been rising inexorably in the last few decades.



Food allergies are on the increase for so many reasons but the main reason for food allergies is that we are eating foods which are not really human foods in th first place. Things such as milk, peanuts, seafoods, eggs.
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William

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2009, 10:09:47 am »
I'm not arguing that they couldn't do it, I'm asking why would they? They didn't have any salads to need olive oil and vinegar dressing.

Guessing, IIRC classical Greeks used the oil instead of soap, and scraped it off with a special tool; maybe lamps? There are probably a lot more uses than I can think of.

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2009, 12:37:46 am »
Classical Greeks are well within the Neolithic. I believe I could think of many uses for olive oil as well, but none of those seem to me to be appropriate for paleolithic people given the amount of work vs. benefit picking olives, soaking them, and then pressing the oil would give them. I'm also sure that rubbing animal fat on your skin would work better than olive oil, and it's a lot easier to acquire in a paleolithic environment.

Satya

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2009, 12:42:07 am »
I have really enjoyed learning about olives.  I had no idea!

William

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #30 on: April 29, 2009, 06:00:36 am »
I believe I could think of many uses for olive oil as well, but none of those seem to me to be appropriate for paleolithic people given the amount of work vs. benefit picking olives, soaking them, and then pressing the oil would give them. .

Work? What work? The ladies would have done it. 

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2009, 08:57:27 am »
I don't know how to make an oil press even with free access to technology and materials. I don't think I could make a press and container for oil with naturally occurring materials in the wild. And if I could, I would assume it would take a lot of work and that I wouldn't bother in that kind of survival situation.

Also weren't paleolithic people usually nomadic to an extent? Sure they could still go back to the place they put the olives and all, but carrying around all kinds of things to make it and containers when they move somewhere else, it just adds to my mind the unlikeliness of this happening.

William

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #32 on: April 29, 2009, 11:44:00 am »
A lever and two flat rocks, sit on it. It's not like they were into commercial production, and small quantities might have been OK.

If they did it, and I don't know that they did, they would have done it for some reason that seemed good to them. Trying to imagine the thought of those who lived in a world so alien to us can be interesting but it comes down to "garbage in garbage out" as the geek wrote.

Offline Josh

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #33 on: April 29, 2009, 08:49:24 pm »
I agree that paleo living is the best guidline to what our bodies need. But it is conceivable that some aspects of modern life have equalled or improved over the paleo. I wouldn't necessarily rule something out because it's not strictly paleo.

I'm not saying that olive oil is or isn't such a case.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2009, 12:24:19 am »
I agree that paleo living is the best guideline to what our bodies need. But it is conceivable that some aspects of modern life have equalled or improved over the paleo. I wouldn't necessarily rule something out because it's not strictly paleo.

I usually put it in a little different way but say essentially the same thing.  We have to live and function in the modern world and this requires compromises.  Though there are no Woolly Mammoths or Saber Toothed Tigers, we can still do our best to adhere to the basic principals that got our species to where it is today.  The best evidence we have is that our paleo ancestors were top level carnivores and ate a diet predominantly of meat.  Whether there were any significant plant materials in the diet we will really never know for sure.  What little evidence is available seems to point to a very minor role of fruits and vegetables, and these would have been highly seasonal - especially in the northern and southern latitudes outside of the tropics.  Evidence also seems to suggest that we come from the African Savanna which is an immense grassland area with little in the way of fruits and other edible plants, but teeming with large grass eating animals.

Based on this, I've set my own personal dietary guidelines such that I try to make the best choice possible in any situation.  I first choose any kind of meat over fruits and vegetables, but if starving would eat whatever is available. I then will choose red meat over pork, pork over fowl, and fowl over fish (in that order).  Next, raw is preferable to cooked, rare is preferable to medium, medium is preferable to well done.  Finally, I want the animal who's meat I'm consuming to have eaten it's natural diet - usually grass - but will eat grain fed if that is all that is available.

Following the above guidelines I've seldom found a situation where I couldn't make do.  If the choices are really poor, I just eat as little as possible, often to be polite, and then eat my normal food when I get home.  When attending a party situation, I usually eat just before I go, and then it is easy to not eat the junk as I'm not hungry.

I spend zero time trying to come up with convoluted ways that our early ancestors could have been able to create a modern 'processed' food requiring a good bit of technology when there is no evidence of the necessary technology existing at the time.  Especially when there would seemingly have been no need for the processed food in the first place.  Processing olives to extract the oil or even make them edible is an order of magnitude removed from hunting animals and/or the simple gathering of edible fruits.
 
Lex

Offline Raw Rob

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2009, 02:37:29 am »
All I know is, olive oil kinda burns and makes me belch. Suet does not.

Don't get me wrong though, if I could eat some garlic bread soaked in olive oil with no negative effects, I totally would. I used to love that stuff.


Offline Josh

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2009, 02:38:17 am »
Thanks...that's a really good summary of your position.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2009, 02:48:31 am »
I have no problem with raw olives and consider them palaeo, but olive-oil just doesn't count as a Palaeo food given the preparation required etc.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2009, 05:01:45 pm by TylerDurden »
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William

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2009, 06:48:29 am »
I have no problem with raw olives and consider them palaeo, but oliv-oil just doesn't count as a Palaeo food given the preparation required etc.

This started as a note that raw olives are inedible; I agree.
Soaking in seawater seems a simple thing if someone wanted edible olives for whatever reason - bait for the frumious bandersnatch for instance.

I too don't see the point of oil.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the nasty taste of modern olive oil is because the seed is also crushed in the press.

Offline phatdave

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2009, 08:49:32 am »
A bit of a stretch if you ask me.  My tools are sharp sticks and rock shards and I'm going to carry handfuls of little bitter olives to a tide pool that washes things away with every high tide, so I can let them soak for 6 months to wash out the taninns to make them edible - yup that's the ticket.   

Personally I don't think olives OR coffee beans are a paleo food, but hey, each can decide for themselves.

Lex

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carnivore

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2009, 04:04:58 pm »
Ripe olives (black), after a few weeks in a fresh place, are delicious. No work (except gathering and storing them).
Instictos eat them in huge amount.

William

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Re: Am I fat adapted?
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2009, 06:36:21 pm »
Ripe olives (black), after a few weeks in a fresh place, are delicious. No work (except gathering and storing them).
Instictos eat them in huge amount.

Interesting! I'd always thought they must be soaked in brine/seawater. What does this mean "a fresh place"?

 

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