Author Topic: New methods designed to give raw and pasteurised milk much longer shelf-life  (Read 3880 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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"What is the point of growing up If you can't be childish sometimes..." - Tom Baker as Dr Who.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Brilliant

Offline TylerDurden

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The catch re the raw milk gimmick is that the bacteria that would eventually get into the raw, cold-pressured  milk would not be the type of bacteria that raw milk usually already has in it.
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Offline dariorpl

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"Whatever does survive is at such a low level that it takes much longer for it to multiply"

That says it all.

Drink this if you want dead milk that offers you very little or no benefits.

We need bacteria. Everybody knows this. And then they sell you dead yoghurt which has bacteria added to it as a "pro biotic", and people pay lots of money for very little amounts.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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"Whatever does survive is at such a low level that it takes much longer for it to multiply"

That says it all.

Drink this if you want dead milk that offers you very little or no benefits.

We need bacteria. Everybody knows this. And then they sell you dead yoghurt which has bacteria added to it as a "pro biotic", and people pay lots of money for very little amounts.

We're not drinking milk for the bacteria, and you can re-culture it after you buy it.

Offline eveheart

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"Whatever does survive is at such a low level that it takes much longer for it to multiply"

That says it all.

Drink this if you want dead milk that offers you very little or no benefits.

I see two points here that you missed, Dario:

(1) High-heat pasteurization denatures the protein molecules a lot, clumping them to become bigger and harder to digest. Low-heat pasteurization might possibly create a milk that more people can digest well.

-and-

(2) Short of having your own cow (if it's cow's milk you want), milk distribution is tricky business because of spoilage. Spoilage costs money. Milk, in many places the cheapest complete protein, is often the go-to food for people with less money. Less spoilage will help maintain milk's price point without requiring as much government subsidies. Like chlorination of water, getting a safe product to the consumer is the main point. Dead milk is better than starvation. If you want the bacteria and don't want to buy it apart from your milk, go get your own cow and graze her in your tenement apartment.
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Offline dariorpl

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eveheart:

re 1), some people can be tricked into thinking they're having raw milk when they're not

re 2), like AV said, raw milk never spoils, it just becomes a variety of yoghurts and cheeses. Now pasteurized milk, that's another matter. I agree that getting fresh unsour milk from the farm to the city requires quick distribution, but if refrigerated, raw milk should stay unsour for 3 or 4 days if not more.
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Offline eveheart

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eveheart:

re 1), some people can be tricked into thinking they're having raw milk when they're not

re 2), like AV said, raw milk never spoils, it just becomes a variety of yoghurts and cheeses. Now pasteurized milk, that's another matter. I agree that getting fresh unsour milk from the farm to the city requires quick distribution, but if refrigerated, raw milk should stay unsour for 3 or 4 days if not more.

Dario, what you said is true, but it has nothing to do with the dairy industry.

re re 1): "Some people" don't even know what pasteurization and homogenization are, and they don't care as long as the milk is cold. If they ever drank milk that was just gotten out of the cow, they would gag.

Plus, you are not the deliverer of people who don't care if they drink raw milk or not and don't mind being tricked. If we are talking about most people, they don't care...

re re 2): ... and when they do start caring, they will keep asking their market corporation to stock raw milk until raw milk supply meets the demand.

I see quicker, cooler milk stabilization as an improvement over high-heat pasteurization. I don't drink milk (AV told me not to), so I don't care about raw-milk availability.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Quote
"AV told me not to"
    ??? :o When I  e-mailed AV, many years ago,  about my concerns re raw dairy he told me, flat-out, that it was absolutely impossible to be allergic to raw dairy. He also told me that my rawpalaeo interpretation of his diet meant that I was not doing his Primal Diet at all(ie not the one he recommended with lots of pseud foods like raw coconut cream, raw dairy, raw nuts, raw veggie juice etc.).

As regards raw milk/dairy preservation, farmers and shops have  already found ways round this issue. They usually just freeze the milk prior to it being bought.
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Offline eveheart

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... he told me, flat-out, that it was absolutely impossible to be allergic to raw dairy.

WWTL was the first raw-meat book I ever read. Upon reading it, I tried raw cow's milk, then raw goat's milk. I do not have milk allergies, but I do get a clear auto-immune response to milk. Not to worry, in WWTL, there was some mention of an alternate approach that involved juicing more and forgoing the milk. If I have the details wrong, forgive me, but I found this forum about 3 days later and raw meat (etc.) solved all my symptoms almost overnight, so I didn't follow AV's advice long enough to remember it exactly.
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Offline RogueFarmer

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Simply refrigerating raw milk diminishes its health giving qualities.

Offline Brad462

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I live near Louisville, Ky...  Just curious if anyone here knows where I can buy some raw milk.
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Offline TylerDurden

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I live near Louisville, Ky...  Just curious if anyone here knows where I can buy some raw milk.
http://www.realmilk.com/real-milk-finder/kentucky/#ky
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Offline TylerDurden

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Simply refrigerating raw milk diminishes its health giving qualities.
What I am curious about is exactly how freezing harms food. AV gave a vague, highly unscientific claim of 25% damage. I once came across a detailed scientific page which claimed, with evidence, that freezing denatures enzymes to a slight extent. Then again, one of our members, thetasigma, claimed that the enzymes in frozen food starte deteriorating soon after being frozen and eventually get destroyed completely after c.10 weeks. Also, on a more scientific level,  freezing does disrupt the cell-walls/cell-membranes of food so that thawing the food causes quicker deterioration re lowering of nutrients etc. Even so, since freezing does not create any toxins it cannot be viewed as being as bad as cooking.
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Offline RogueFarmer

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I think there is basically a bio mechanical failure of some kind. Like. Basically everything is made of happy protons and electrons and neutrons bouncing around. Cooling them lowers their atomic speed if you will and probably diminishes the level of sunlight energy contained within.

Offline eveheart

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In addition to what RF explained about damage at the micro level in both the fridge and the freezer, there is freezing damage at the cellular level, too. It's hard to compare subtle freezer damage to the opposite, heat damage, because the changes in heating are quite pronounced, while freezing damage is subtle. I mean, if you look at the lump of it, frozen = hard and thawed = soft, no biggie.... 

To visualize freezer damage, think about putting living larvae into a freezer... they die; thaw them... they don't revive. The loss of life-process is due to the damage in the freezer. The majority of this kind of damage comes from membranes rupturing as water expands to ice. Even already-dead tissues get damaged by rupturing membranes. That accounts for the wateriness of thawed food.

It's hard to quantify the implications when it comes to eating previously-frozen food. Let's not turn this discussion into Stefansson and the Inuit. What will we do with our vast freezers if frozen food is no good?
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Offline dariorpl

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What I am curious about is exactly how freezing harms food. AV gave a vague, highly unscientific claim of 25% damage.

Well foods taste worse when frozen and thawed so that's a start.

Also, he mentioned different % damage to nutrition for different foods. For meats he said it's the worst at 75%, but within meats I think he also said that red meats are the worst, and white meats are not as bad to freeze.

For berries he recommended buying them frozen for convenience, even though they lost nutrition, because you wouldn't use them for nutrition anyway, but to pull toxins, and apparently their detoxifying abilities stayed undamaged or almost undamaged through freezing.

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