Author Topic: Engaging the Scientific Establishment  (Read 4420 times)

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Offline sabertooth

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Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« on: December 28, 2016, 08:49:18 am »
For Far Too Long I've been witness to the Ethos which prohibits outsiders from engaging in scientific endeavors. From what Ive Gleaned there hasn't been any viable route, for the study of Raw Paleo Nutrition, to enter the mainstream scientific establishment apparatus.

Despite the seemingly slow progress, the "alternative health movement" has been making inroads and "integrative medicine" is a burgeoning phenomenon; I feel the time is ripe to begin some Raw Paleo Mission work...its nothing Overly Grandiose or Unrealistic.... all I have in mind as of now is to look up researchers, Doctors, and scientist in the field and personally engage them in discourse or correspondence, regarding my own personal experiences with the Raw Paleo Diet.

Today I Left Messages for Low Carb researcher Dr. Mark Hyman, sent emails to Jeff Volek and Steve Phinney. I also had a remarkable conversation with  Dr. Robert Lustig. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM  I politely told him what I have been doing and inquired about wishing to participate in scientific research, while he told me that it was very unlikely that any institution he knew of would be willing to conduct such research, though he believes my testimony and commended me for my efforts.

This may be a good hobby for me, bugging the ears of luminaries in the alternative and establishment, and I would be happy for anyone to suggest worthy targets for the Inquisition? Who knows what may come of it, but I think its worth while to reach out to these crusaders who have already taken a strong stance against Drugs and Processed foods, and encourage them to look into the Benefits of Raw.


 
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Offline Iguana

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2016, 05:30:07 pm »
...look into the Benefits of Raw.

You can try and I wish you good luck. It's been done in Europe with no or negative results. Anyway I think it would be more correct to formulate it the other way around and instead of talking of the benefits of raw (raw nutrition should be considered the normality, aka the reference state) focus on the damages done by heating and processing food, not especially the destruction of nutrients, but the generation of billions of different kinds of abnormal molecules and new chemical compounds.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2016, 05:44:20 pm »
I would suggest to a RVAF-diet-friendly type  like Dr Mercola to set up a RVAF diet study. The trouble is that, while there are plenty of RVAFers in the LA area, I have found that whenever one undertakes a project, that there has to be at least 1 person doing 99% of the work in terms of effort/getting people together etc., with 2 or 3 others doing it part-time, and the rest trying as hard as possible to skive off any work while muttering vague encouragements. I would suggest a very small, very well-constructed, unbiased study at first, and, if possible, including more people in later studies.

The trouble is that american institutions would be worried about litigation so would avoid doing such a study. But, surely, if all participants signed various legal waivers, there should be no problem with it. Err, as a last resort, why not set up a crowdfunding entry or three  for money to set up such a groundbreaking raw, palaeolithic diet study?  Perhaps there are forum-boards for science-geeks  where you could advertise such a study, where you could You could mention the terrible bias against such a study etc......Oh, and, perhaps, rawpalaeo not RVAF. We don't want to include some of the primal dieters who regularly report deeply unpleasant symptoms from consuming raw dairy while always claiming it is just detox.

Oh, and don't mention rawpaleodietforum. After all, any expert who jumps on the bandwagon will want to become the next RVAF diet guru or whatever, and set up his own forums etc.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2016, 05:46:52 pm »
You can try and I wish you good luck. It's been done in Europe with no or negative results. Anyway I think it would be more correct to formulate it the other way around and instead of talking of the benefits of raw (raw nutrition should be considered the normality, aka the reference state) focus on the damages done by heating and processing food, not especially the destruction of nutrients, but the generation of billions of different kinds of abnormal molecules and new chemical compounds.
The latter has been done very extensively so far, with 10s of 1000s of studies done on cooking-derived advanced glycation end products alone. So much so, that so-called "diet-experts" are now routinely recommending that foods should be cooked as lightly as possible and to avoid processed foods(yet they ignore that cooking is a type of processing!).
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Eric

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2016, 10:14:46 pm »
As someone who works in the academic realm, I wish you the best of luck Derek but it's a tough nut to crack. Research is largely driven by the potential to commercialize a patentable therapy or drug. A researcher can't very well patent some aspect of a raw diet, or even commercialize it. Without the promise of a profitable product down the road, it's hard to get a company (or a government) to invest in research trials, and they are quite expensive. Even relatively simple trials with a few research subjects might cost a quarter million dollars.

Have you ever considered doing a podcast, either an audio podcast hosted by iTunes or a video podcast on YouTube? Seems to me that would be the best platform to talk about your lifestyle, uninhibited. I'm gearing up to start my own podcast come early 2017, though it won't focus exclusively on diet.

Offline ys

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2016, 11:57:21 pm »
People will start seriously paying attention to raw paleo when there is enough evidence such as consistent life span of 120 years.

And even then chances people will switch are close to zero.

Everyone knows soft drinks are garbage and yet everyone keeps drinking it.  If people one day voluntarily abandon soft drinks that would be the greatest victory ever.


Offline sabertooth

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2016, 02:51:07 am »
You can try and I wish you good luck. It's been done in Europe with no or negative results. Anyway I think it would be more correct to formulate it the other way around and instead of talking of the benefits of raw (raw nutrition should be considered the normality, aka the reference state) focus on the damages done by heating and processing food, not especially the destruction of nutrients, but the generation of billions of different kinds of abnormal molecules and new chemical compounds.

I spoke with Dr. Robert Lustig. Regarding the dangers of AGEs and how cooked fats and proteins break down into toxic substances and he agreed with me... I went on to say that it seems no researcher is willing to touch the subject of studying Raw meat consumption with a 30 ft pole, which he also agreed with...

This interaction encouraged me to start this thread and, made me think that there must be many people of good continence out there, who are able to initiate the type of systematic changes needed to bring balance to the force...if only they could be empowered and encourage to do so by some means.

My goals are to reach the luminaries and ignite curiosity among those who are in the know and on the cutting edge.... perhaps from there I could begin to participate in other peoples Pod Cast and reach broader audiences. Pessimist out there be assured that I am well aware that the vast majority of the world couldn't give a Dung Heap about much of this, so I would like to focus attention on a select few individuals who may be able to engage in constructive public discussion forums which would be able to inform the minority of people who are actually open to the Message.

Though my mind is full of Raw and untapped experiences that need to be shared, I am inexperienced with verbal forums, and need more practice with directly communicating a cohesive message with the public at large, in smaller venues before feeling comfortable setting up my own Pod Cast. I have very little experience with being a host or preforming monologues, and would at first look to have a side kick or experienced interviewer to prompt thought provoking discussions.

As someone who works in the academic realm, I wish you the best of luck Derek but it's a tough nut to crack. Research is largely driven by the potential to commercialize a patentable therapy or drug. A researcher can't very well patent some aspect of a raw diet, or even commercialize it. Without the promise of a profitable product down the road, it's hard to get a company (or a government) to invest in research trials, and they are quite expensive. Even relatively simple trials with a few research subjects might cost a quarter million dollars.

Have you ever considered doing a podcast, either an audio podcast hosted by iTunes or a video podcast on YouTube? Seems to me that would be the best platform to talk about your lifestyle, uninhibited. I'm gearing up to start my own podcast come early 2017, though it won't focus exclusively on diet.

The Spread of Information is no longer restricted to establishment dominated channels....Inspiration is fractal, viral, and virtually unstoppable once it has been unleashed...there are no longer impenetrable barriers....the ivory towers of academia are crashing down....

It may be very well true that real world trials and scientifically accredited research in the field of Raw Paleo Diets is beyond the grasp of such lofty headed dreamers as myself....but the game is changing and we are now being aided by a growing and monumental shift in consciousnesses of Millions of human beings who are now beginning to question the validity of that very foundation of the scientific establishment.

What is needed is for catalystic voices to rise up and with passionate pleas to higher levels of reason, and emphatically decry the inequity built within the structural hierarchies, and economic interest that have hijacked the human enterprise.  Let me face the scientific establishment with a spirit of defiance and make the claim that if I were to have the same access to resources as the Big Pharma Giants....millions of dollars, the highest tech facilities, and a legion of skilled technicians, devoted to non drug based nutritional, and holistic life therapies; then the results would be miraculous.

Though Critics and cynics could scoff at such hyperbole as having no proof, the very fact that the current establishment would be totally unable and unwilling to disprove such assertions, would only give credence to those whom believe that the current systems are failing us....This may not be any consolation for those who seek "absolute" results on some observable level, but its a more realistic place for those with broader vision to begin.   

I would suggest to a RVAF-diet-friendly type  like Dr Mercola to set up a RVAF diet study. The trouble is that, while there are plenty of RVAFers in the LA area, I have found that whenever one undertakes a project, that there has to be at least 1 person doing 99% of the work in terms of effort/getting people together etc., with 2 or 3 others doing it part-time, and the rest trying as hard as possible to skive off any work while muttering vague encouragements. I would suggest a very small, very well-constructed, unbiased study at first, and, if possible, including more people in later studies.

The trouble is that american institutions would be worried about litigation so would avoid doing such a study. But, surely, if all participants signed various legal waivers, there should be no problem with it. Err, as a last resort, why not set up a crowdfunding entry or three  for money to set up such a groundbreaking raw, palaeolithic diet study?  Perhaps there are forum-boards for science-geeks  where you could advertise such a study, where you could You could mention the terrible bias against such a study etc......Oh, and, perhaps, rawpalaeo not RVAF. We don't want to include some of the primal dieters who regularly report deeply unpleasant symptoms from consuming raw dairy while always claiming it is just detox.

Oh, and don't mention rawpaleodietforum. After all, any expert who jumps on the bandwagon will want to become the next RVAF diet guru or whatever, and set up his own forums etc.

I am in agreement with this,

Dr. Mercola would be an Ideal person to reach out to for starters....unfortunately the higher profile luminaries in the alternative health world are often difficult to contact directly... if anyone knows of better channels to reach out to people of means who may be receptive to our cause please let me know.

 
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline ys

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2016, 03:42:42 am »
Mercola became a typical magnate with his supplement empire and lives in a typical mansion not far from me in Barrington IL and has no time for anything else.

What you need is a celebrity.  Have you seen what Oprah has done for Weightwatchers?

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2016, 04:19:12 am »
Perhaps Mercola wouldn't want to hear what I had to say, which would be against the use of supplements that have made him wealthy....but even if that is the case he could still benefit by being confronted with the Raw Truth...

Oprah; though her wealth and media empire be vast, is a corporate creation and I doubt very few in her caste would give open forum to an epitome of the anti corporate zeitgiest, such as myself.

Im also thinking about contacting people like Joe Rogan who are more or less independent from profit driven content?
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Offline van

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2016, 11:04:04 am »
If you want to open your own eyes to the vast world of scientific studies re. aging, check out in depth Peter Attia's work.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2016, 12:11:12 pm »
I liked Peter Attia's Ted Talk, and would be interested in contacting the Eating Academy.....you would think that those working with Peter Attia would be curious about Raw Paleo....

I always am keen on assimilating new info, but in many ways I am growing disinterested in solitary scholarly study, and crave open discourse. To discuss with enthusiasm the Raw Paleo Experience with intelligent people would be rewarding. This may greatly help me figure out my own blind spots, and would overall motivate me to enter back into more advanced study with renewed gusto.   

I have wondered Van? Considering your own experience and connections, would you ever be willing to reach out to the Scientific Establishment??? 

« Last Edit: December 29, 2016, 01:48:32 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2016, 01:16:45 pm »
Just had an idea. I note that raw, palaeolithic diets do indeed have some  possibilities re wealth-creation for gurus. I mean, Aajonus had his workshops/seminars, his books. And RPD supplements are now common-place. In the hiking shops, I see all these beef jerky products all over the place, for example. Fermented foods in jars could be another option.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2016, 02:11:22 pm »
The scientific establishment does seem to more behind the notion that cooking is more harmful than first thought:-

http://ndnr.com/oncology/advanced-glycation-end-products-death-by-cooked-food/
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline van

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2016, 10:32:55 pm »
I liked Peter Attia's Ted Talk, and would be interested in contacting the Eating Academy.....you would think that those working with Peter Attia would be curious about Raw Paleo....

I always am keen on assimilating new info, but in many ways I am growing disinterested in solitary scholarly study, and crave open discourse. To discuss with enthusiasm the Raw Paleo Experience with intelligent people would be rewarding. This may greatly help me figure out my own blind spots, and would overall motivate me to enter back into more advanced study with renewed gusto.   

I have wondered Van? Considering your own experience and connections, would you ever be willing to reach out to the Scientific Establishment??? 



Offline van

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Re: Engaging the Scientific Establishment
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2016, 10:37:29 pm »
Derek, check out Rhonda Patrick phd.   She does lots of interviews of all sorts of topics relating to optimal health ( I found her from a Peter Attia interview ).   Can very well imagine she'd do one with you and would stimulate a lot of interest at least on her part.  Her interview of the Vegan ultra marathon guy does make one wonder.... She's very science based. Please let me know what she says if you do contact her.  Apparently she does travel to do interviews.
   I really don't have any connections in this field. Sorry.

 

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