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Offline Inger

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Iron overload on raw meat diet
« on: February 16, 2020, 04:24:41 pm »
Hello everyone!

I would really appreciate what your experiences are about this topic.

I got my ferritine levels checked after Christmas and they were 180. A red flag for me, not for my doctor though but I think they really have no clue about iron overload.
I started to read about it and put 1 + 1 together....... some minor issues that I had experienced this last summer and fall... that I had not really been able to figure out.
A hurtful joint and a little swollen too, on my finger, but I thought it was because I work a ton in summer as a waitress and we had those new plates that are heavy to carry. Also my fingers were kind of a little swollen? Now I am pretty sure, it was from too much iron. Also one of my knee made some issues so I could not continue running, what I had started to do as season at work ended. I thought it was a injury issue from this summer when I hurt my knee a bit... but I do not think so anymore.
Also in fall my liver started to feel stressed at times, some minor discomfort,  especially when I vacuum cleaned for a longer time(working a second job as housekeeper).. I thought maybe the magnetic/electric radiation and the iron reacted somehow. Logical, because iron works like a magnet.
The more I learned the more I am sure I had way too much iron accumulated!! I have been eating mostly raw galloway beef, very high quality pastured meat from a farmer here, they do not get any other feed that what is on the pasture. Not even parasite medication. Nothing.

My friend told me, in France, doctors tell anemic people to eat raw meat. It must be raw because that is how the iron is best absorbed.

I would never have had the slightest idea, I could accumulate too much iron!! And that is really not a good thing. It makes you age way faster.. and causes many issues in your body wit time. It can take many years before issues start to appear though.
Also if your ancestors are from Irland or Norway or other Scandinavian coutries, it is a 10% probability that you have a genetic mutation for excess iron uptake - that used to serve people well and help survival long ago, but today it does the opposite.... because of how we live and eat in the modern world.

I am now doing things differently to reverse it. This is what I do;

No more red meat. If, just liver, once in a while, as it is high in copper and that is what is neded to mobilize the iron. Also heart because it has other benefits too. But no more muscle meat for me in a while, until I have solved this issue.
Instead I eat seafood. Herring and mackerel and oysters I eat raw, and wil caught salmon and cod etc, the less fatty fishes, I eat cooked. Very gently cooked though.
Also raw eggyolks, and here and there some raw sheepsmilk cheese.
I drink peppermint tea a lot, always with meals, because it should help reduce iron uptake. Also green tea.
I do raw coconut oil for fat - seems my liver loves it right now - too much raw beef fat seems not too good at the moment. Small amounts are fine.
I also eat black sesame/sesame seeds because they are high in copper. Or some hazelnuts. Also high in copper. I try to naturally get in more copper, because how I see it is, I have too much iron and too little copper.
Oysters are high in copper and might have saved me for quite a while on the road... balanced all the excess iron out for a bit - but this fall I did not have oysters for a month and that is when my issues in the liver started. In winter it is hard for me to source oysters because it is so much water in the sea as there are plenty of storms here then.

I might do some more veggies/greens when the sun gets stronger, we are in the middle of winter right now so I want to stay mostly carnivore.

And most important, I am donating bood.
This is so important! My blood is really good quality and doctor was happy to get some of it ;).
But in Germany you can only donate 4 times /year as a woman. So I will do those 4 times and hope it is enough, in addition to all the other changes I have made.
I have to say, my liver is feeling better already, even if I have donated only once so far(funny thing is, my liver bloodwork all come back great, all my bloodwork was great - despite the discomfort I have been feeling from time to time. Also my HDL was really good, which also indicates a healthy liver...)
I feel really good about it, like I am on the right path :) :)


I am worried now that other people trying to eat raw carnivore and doing lots of raw meat, wil run into an iron overload issue....
Seems really many have some issues and trying to solve them. Please speak out about it so we can learn from you.

To have a metal accumulate in your body is not at all fun because today there is so much nnEMF everywhere. Imagine, it is like you are walking around as a big antenna....  >D
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 04:45:48 pm by Inger »

Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2020, 04:37:34 pm »
Excess iron in the body can cause significant damage, and can lead to the following:

    Diabetes
    Arthritis
    Infertility
    Osteoporosis and joint pain
    Neurodegenerative disorders (Multiple Sclerosis, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s, epilepsy and Huntington’s disease)
    Irregular heartbeat or heart attacks
    Cirrhosis of the liver
    Depression
    Gallbladder disease
    Hypothyroidism (The risk of hypothyroidism is 80 times greater than normal for men with hemochromatosis)

For men, symptoms can begin in their 20’s and 30’s, while for women, they can arise 10-15 years after menopause. Symptoms can occur for up to ten years before a diagnosis of hemochromatosis. Men have a 24-fold increased rate of iron-overload disease compared with women.


https://nutritiongenome.com/the-connection-to-irish-heritage-and-the-hemochromatosis-genes/

PS. I forgot to tell, I am in perimenopause and having my period way less frequently now, which makes me not loose much blood anymore... and also I never had heavy periods either, very normal and easy, but of course a heavy period would have been better to get rid of excess iron ;)

I wonder if this is the real downside to raw carnivore, and why some many give up on it feeling issues arising.. because they eat so much red meat. And also too much fish is not suitable for everybodys genetics.
Genetics (and also where you live on the earth) play a big role what foods you do best on or not I guess....

Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2020, 04:51:11 pm »
Uh.. thinking about it all makes me a little sad what I have been doing to my poor body :(....
It is so easy to hurt yourself being ignorant!! But I really try not to be, but some things we just do not know... so we will get hurt at times. We all are partly ignorant, and on a learning journey.

Main thing is, we learn and grow and are able to reverse the damage - and I am very confident I can do that.

And for all, it is so important to share it all with the community so no one else needs to do the same mistake!!
So please guys, if you have been eating lots of raw meat, go and do some bloodwork, just to be sure you are not accumulating too much iron. Also if you have some of the symptoms above, sometimes iron does not show up on the bloodwork too much, but still organs can have accumulated it!  Imagine that.
There is a new kind of EMR that can diagnose iron accumulation in the liver, but it is very expensive procedure. I guess sometimes we can know just by judging our symptoms and how our body feels. The body always tries to tells us what it needs, if we only listen :)

Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2020, 06:28:06 pm »
This was an interesting read;
 
http://www.hepatitiscfree.com/messages/2003/aug8b-info2003.htm

Dietary Iron Control

Various dietary practices can help control iron levels. In a relatively short period of time, dietary changes can result in anemia, iron overload or an ideal state of iron control. Anemia can be induced in about 120 days, while symptoms of iron overload can come on in just 60 days.

Humans absorb only a fraction of the iron they consume, but there are many controlling factors.20 Iron absorption rates from food vary widely, from less than 1 percent to nearly 100 percent.21 Cooks who use iron or stainless steel pots increase the amount of iron they consume.22 Generally, iron in plant foods is not as well absorbed as iron from meat: Only 5 percent of iron in plant foods is available, vs. 30 to 50 percent of iron from meat.23 Olive oil and spices such as anise, caraway, cumin, licorice and mint promote iron absorption,24 while antacids, eggs and soy reduce availability.25 Since dairy products contain lactoferrin, milk also inhibits the absorption of iron.26 Moderate alcohol consumption is unlikely to pose a problem with iron absorption, but excessive amounts of alcohol is associated with iron overload, particularly in adult males.27

Vitamin C also increases iron absorption.28 However, there is no evidence that vitamin C leads to iron overload. Thus vitamin C should not be avoided by meat-eaters for this reason, since studies show high-dose vitamin C supplements are associated with a decreased risk for heart disease, cancer, cataracts and other disorders.29 A vegetarian diet does not generally cause iron-deficiency anemia because there is more vitamin C in plant-food diets, which enhances absorption.30

A 1982 human study was conducted to assess the effect of various drinks on iron absorption. A subject ate a standard meal of a hamburger, string beans, mashed potatoes and water. When green tea was drunk instead of water, iron absorption was reduced by 62 percent. Coffee reduced iron absorption by 35 percent, whereas orange juice (as a source of vitamin C) increased absorption by 85 percent. Contrary to other studies, milk and beer had no significant effect.31

Bioflavonoids (found in berries, coffee, green tea, pine bark, quercetin and the rind of citrus fruits, particularly blueberry, cranberry, elderberry and grape seed) and phytic acid (a component of whole grains and seeds such as sesame) bind to iron and other minerals in the gastric tract and help to limit iron availability. If bioflavonoids and phytic acid haven't bound to minerals in the digestive tract they will get into the bloodstream, where they can bind to free iron, acting as blood-cleansing iron chelators. Therefore, maximum iron chelation in the blood circulation is achieved when these iron binders are consumed apart from meals.

Phytic acid--also called inositol hexaphosphate, or IP6--is comprised of six phosphorus molecules and one molecule of inositol. It has been mistakenly described for decades as an "anti-nutrient" because it impairs mineral absorption. However, in the 1980s food biochemist Ernst Graf, Ph.D., began to tout phytic acid for its beneficial antioxidant properties achieved through mineral chelation.32

Phytic acid in foods or bran should be distinguished from supplemental phytic acid, which is derived from rice bran extract. In foods, phytic acid binds to iron and other minerals in the digestive tract and may interfere with mineral absorption. As a purified extract of rice bran, taken between meals so it will not bind to minerals in the digestive tract, phytic acid is readily absorbed into the bloodstream, where it acts as a potent mineral chelator.33 Phytic acid binds to any free iron or other minerals (even heavy metals such as mercury, lead and cadmium) in the blood, which are then eliminated through the kidneys. Phytic acid removes only excess or unbound minerals, not mineral ions already attached to proteins.

Phytic acid is such a potent--but safe--iron and mineral chelator that it may someday replace intravenous chelation therapy such as the mineral-chelator EDTA or iron-binding drugs such as desferrioxamine (Desferal). Because of its ability to bind to iron and block iron-driven hydroxyl radical generation (water-based) as well as suppress lipid peroxidation (fat-based), phytic acid has been used successfully as an antioxidant food preservative.34

Phytic acid supplements should not be taken during pregnancy since the developing fetus requires minerals for proper development. Because aspirin causes a small loss of blood and consequently helps to control iron levels, the simultaneous use of phytic acid with a daily aspirin tablet is not advised. A three-month course of phytic acid should achieve adequate iron chelation, and prolonged daily supplementation may lead to iron-deficiency anemia. Anemic individuals who take phytic acid as a food supplement are likely to feel weak shortly after consumption, whereas iron-overloaded individuals are likely to feel increased energy.

For those at risk for iron overload, it may be wise to avoid iron in multivitamins and shun fortified foods that provide more than 25 percent of the recommended daily intake for iron. No doctor should prescribe iron tablets for patients who complain of fatigue without blood tests and a thorough health history. Iron-rich foods such as red meat and molasses may prevent anemia and build strength during the growing years but in adulthood may lead to iron overload among men and postmenopausal women. Those individuals who learn how to achieve iron balance will maintain the most desirable state of health throughout life.

Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2020, 09:46:35 pm »
"Testosterone replacement therapy supresses a hormone called hepcidin responsible for regulating iron absorption. So you are absorbing more iron..."

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/threads/my-experiment-with-ip6-iron-chelator.17623/

Found this as I googled IP6.
Holy moly... more pieces coming on their place!! I was drinking lots of sheep ball smoothies a 2-3 years ago.......OMG
I stopped, because I realized it gave me too much testosterone - I got body signs of it.
But still it might have added to the iron issue...

errr.... biohacking gone wrong  ???

I did buy me some IP6, seems to be a great way to lower iron. I am going to do it in addition to the donating blood every 2-3 months. That should bring my iron levels pretty fast to a good level :)
 

Offline Eric

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2020, 06:16:27 am »
All very fascinating. I eat a very diverse diet, not just animal-derived foods, so have never seen any symptoms of iron overload (or deficiency).

Offline littleElefant

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2020, 11:39:11 pm »
Hi Inger,

thats interresting, me as well I suspect having an Iron overload now. I went carnivore for a while, mostly galloway meat, no veggies any more and not a lot of fat, supplementing with Vitamin C with increases iron absorbtion, and started feeling more and more sick. Tomorrow i m going to the doktor for bloodtests. I feel a bit at a lost in what to eat now, so I eat very littel animal protein but lots of fibrous vegetables, nuts and seeds but I m very tired now. I found out about the IP6 as well, already ordered it. How much are you going to take?

Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2020, 03:09:12 am »
Hi Inger,

thats interresting, me as well I suspect having an Iron overload now. I went carnivore for a while, mostly galloway meat, no veggies any more and not a lot of fat, supplementing with Vitamin C with increases iron absorbtion, and started feeling more and more sick. Tomorrow i m going to the doktor for bloodtests. I feel a bit at a lost in what to eat now, so I eat very littel animal protein but lots of fibrous vegetables, nuts and seeds but I m very tired now. I found out about the IP6 as well, already ordered it. How much are you going to take?

Hi Little Elefant :)
wow that is interesting. Please let me know what your bloodtest shows!
I am not sure yet how much to take, i read someone with iron overload was taking 2000 mg/day, a male though. I might go with 1000 mg and maybe every other day? I need to research a little more about it. Will recieve my IP6 at wendmesday I think. I am so curious how it will work out... :)

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2020, 03:13:09 am »
All very fascinating. I eat a very diverse diet, not just animal-derived foods, so have never seen any symptoms of iron overload (or deficiency).

Eric, would you share with me what your diet consist of, mostly? And how are you doing so far?
Do you do some cooked stuff too? I do... I cook wild caught salmon, or cod.. and mussles.. and shrimp. I do eat a lot raw though. But not everything.
I might have to start cooking my meat a little when I start eating it again, because it makes the iron less absorbable. I do not want it though, because I really love the taste of raw meat. Lets see how fast I get my iron to drop ;) :) Or I will take some natural phytates with raw meat, like sesame seeds, or maybe some raw dairy with it, dairy also prevent some of the iron absorption, as do certain herbs.

Offline norawnofun

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2020, 03:25:41 am »
Morley robins suggested in his podcast on extreamhealthradio 3 things to get rid of excess iron.

1. blood donation. He mentioned that fasting before donating blood can release more iron during donation. He also mentioned that retinol helps autophagy.

2. Then there is a list of supplements that he recommends to get rid of it

3. and the most interesting one was recommended for people that, for whatever reason, cannot do blood donations. He said to soak a flanel in castor oil, wrap that in plastic foil and then put a healing pad over that, then place it on the liver. It´s supposed to heal eczema too. The castor oil method was apparently used in the older days as well.

He also said that the best source for copper is bee pollen, followed by calf liver (beef would have too much iron) and oranges on 3rd place, allthough I don´t understand why he would mention oranges, as it seems to be pretty low. I´d also be careful with too much liver, you don´t want to run into more issues when it comes to vitamin a toxicity. Dr. Garrett Smith has some good knowledge on this topic. Other sources of copper are oysters and hazelnut as you mentioned, but also pumpkin seeds. I think it would be better to go for the oil rather than the nuts itself, might be easier to digest and more bioavailable. 100 percent dark chocolate that has a high amount of cocoa butter, since the end product would be lower in oxalates (rather than only cocoa powder) would also be a good copper source. Mollusks also have good amounts of copper. Might even be better. Shiitake have good amounts too, also goji berries and capers are not too bad either.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 03:39:47 am by norawnofun »

Offline Eric

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2020, 04:08:54 am »
Eric, would you share with me what your diet consist of, mostly? And how are you doing so far?
Do you do some cooked stuff too? I do... I cook wild caught salmon, or cod.. and mussles.. and shrimp. I do eat a lot raw though. But not everything.

My diet changes with the seasons (I live in Vermont, USA). Summers I eat more foraged plants and some purchased organic veg, including berries. Winters I am nearly carnivore, but do eat some root vegetables and sometimes rice and mushrooms. I am not totally raw, and do not try to be. I do eat a lot of raw foods, but also see value in eating certain cooked foods. I work out a lot, so worry I would have trouble getting enough calories if I only ate raw, which I find very filling. I struggle to eat more than 2,000 kcal per day when eating only raw foods, and ideally need to eat 2,500 kcal+ on workout days to meet my needs.

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2020, 05:35:25 pm »
Hi norawnofun, the castor pack is inerresting, what supplements did Robins recomend? I can not donate blood because to donate blood you have to weight at least 50 kg

Offline kelpguy

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2020, 06:48:30 pm »
All very fascinating. I eat a very diverse diet, not just animal-derived foods, so have never seen any symptoms of iron overload (or deficiency).

by the looks of our teeth, i reckon that humans are designed to eat a variety of foods RAW.

nice to have some more of the group pioneers posting; i often wonder what happened to all the members that were so active around 2009/2013. 



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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2020, 08:13:41 pm »
i often wonder what happened to all the members that were so active around 2009/2013.

People come and go. Most of the moderators here have long since stopped posting, but the forum owner never bothered to replace them. Facebook has pilfered much of people's time. It is easier to use than a clunky forum like this, and offers one-stop social media engagement, so to speak.

Offline dariorpl

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2020, 11:16:14 pm »
Inger,

First of all, I think you are a very experienced and knowledgeable individual in the raw paleo lifestyle. I admire your courage in not being swayed by popular belief and in openly sharing a lifestyle that most think is dangerous to yourself and, to an extent, to those around you. Watching your videos and reading your posts always inspires me to continue pursuing this lifestyle, and your cheerful attitude often brings me joy on sad days.

However, I think here you may have been getting all worked up over something which may not even be an issue.

There are many reasons why a blood iron test can come up high, the main reason being if your diet is high in available iron, which it is. The question is not just about how much you absorb though, but how much your body stores and how much it eliminates, and why. It could be that your body has issues eliminating iron, but so far you seem to have little or no evidence that this is the case, other than a suspicion based not on real experience but on a lab test that could mean many things - and which even the doctors have no concerns about.

Some of your solutions to the problem seem fine and well - more seafood, less red meat could certainly be what's best for you.

I'm skeptical of the green tea being of help - this in effect works by impairing your digestion. Even if it works for the intended purpose, there are many side-effects of impairing digestion like that. Now if you enjoy green tea with your meals, and don't want to give it up, or perhaps you need the caffeine boost or want something warm to drink, that's another matter altogether, and I'm sure you can be healthy while including it. But to include it for health reasons seems counter-intuitive.

About blood donations, if you are doing this for humanitarian issues, that's fine and well. But to do this as a health practice seems bizarre to me. When you are injured and blood comes out, it hurts. Blood is designed to clot on contact with air so as to close the wound as soon as possible. Can you imagine paleo people willingly bleeding themselves on purpose and for enjoyment or as a form of medical practice? Bloodletting only came about in an age where most people were eating a very unnatural diet, based on grains, which would actually promote anemia. Even if bloodletting was an effective method for reducing iron in the blood, this would only be necessary if your body has a problem eliminating iron, since elimination is what you're doing. However, it seems to me that creating new blood, with the great nutritional and building requirements it has, simply for the sake of eliminating iron, puts a big strain on your body, and I believe it could in fact be much more likely to age you quickly. We know that things that destroy blood cells (as well as other cells), such as alcohol consumption, age us faster. Here you are technically destroying (or rather, eliminating) blood cells on purpose. While you don't have to deal with the cleanup of dead cells that would result from heavy alcohol consumption, you do have to deal with the big task of constantly replenishing your blood supply. Finally, all of that new blood requires iron to make. So when you do that, your body is more likely to hold on to iron. I would worry that continually doing this would set your body up for iron retention.

You said that you might have a genetic mutation for increased iron intake. When do you suppose this mutation came about? Scandinavian people aren't particularly known for a heavy grain dependence, since little grain can be grown there. If anything we would expect to find this mutation in people who relied heavily on grains and thus needed such increased iron absorption - therefore it would be most likely present mainly in people from northeast asia, and to a lesser extent india, the middle east and europe and central and south america.

About the vaccuum cleaning, it could simply be the EMF like you mentioned, or more likely still, the air you are breathing. House dust is not the same as dirt in nature. House dust is full of toxic elements that come off the walls, off all kinds of plastic and treated wood and paper; particles from all sorts of aerosol sprays including deodorant and even poison (bug spray), soaps and detergents and other chemicals used in cleaning, etc. When you vaccuum a house, many of those chemical toxins end up in your lungs, nostrils and general respiratory tract, as well as on your skin and your eyes. They are then absorbed to your bloodstream and your liver and kidneys have to process many of them. Perhaps you could wear a cottonmask for blocking some of the dust you breathe in while doing this task, and see if it improves the issue. If it does, you could also add protective goggles and clothes that expose as little skin as possible, and avoiding makeup (which can make the dust stick to your skin more easily)

As a side issue, I'm curious as to where you are sourcing your raw coconut oil, since almost all coconut oils are actually cooked, even if they say they're not.
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Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2020, 01:06:54 am »
My diet changes with the seasons (I live in Vermont, USA). Summers I eat more foraged plants and some purchased organic veg, including berries. Winters I am nearly carnivore, but do eat some root vegetables and sometimes rice and mushrooms. I am not totally raw, and do not try to be. I do eat a lot of raw foods, but also see value in eating certain cooked foods. I work out a lot, so worry I would have trouble getting enough calories if I only ate raw, which I find very filling. I struggle to eat more than 2,000 kcal per day when eating only raw foods, and ideally need to eat 2,500 kcal+ on workout days to meet my needs.
This is about exactly as I eat too, Eric! I too eat seasonal carbs in summer :) but I could do better with that.... Next summer I am going to add in a little more of them. Carnivore is just so easy for me to do, that is.
I can easily eat 3000 calories as raw carnivore. And I weigh only 55 kg. I can digest it just fine. But it might make me gain some weight. If I do around 2000 calories I keep the same weight. Me cooking is not the issue because I cant get in enough food raw, but rather because I cant always source fresh fish that I like raw. If I do not have osyters, that is. And in winter I have way less oysters because of the harsh weather.

How much red meat have you been eating, about, the last years? I have had at least a pound of raw beef or lamb every day. Often even more.

I think there is the issue.
Plus the sheep balls.
Plus not having my period much often anymore.

Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2020, 01:14:42 am »
Inger,

First of all, I think you are a very experienced and knowledgeable individual in the raw paleo lifestyle. I admire your courage in not being swayed by popular belief and in openly sharing a lifestyle that most think is dangerous to yourself and, to an extent, to those around you. Watching your videos and reading your posts always inspires me to continue pursuing this lifestyle, and your cheerful attitude often brings me joy on sad days.

However, I think here you may have been getting all worked up over something which may not even be an issue.

There are many reasons why a blood iron test can come up high, the main reason being if your diet is high in available iron, which it is. The question is not just about how much you absorb though, but how much your body stores and how much it eliminates, and why. It could be that your body has issues eliminating iron, but so far you seem to have little or no evidence that this is the case, other than a suspicion based not on real experience but on a lab test that could mean many things - and which even the doctors have no concerns about.

Some of your solutions to the problem seem fine and well - more seafood, less red meat could certainly be what's best for you.

I'm skeptical of the green tea being of help - this in effect works by impairing your digestion. Even if it works for the intended purpose, there are many side-effects of impairing digestion like that. Now if you enjoy green tea with your meals, and don't want to give it up, or perhaps you need the caffeine boost or want something warm to drink, that's another matter altogether, and I'm sure you can be healthy while including it. But to include it for health reasons seems counter-intuitive.

About blood donations, if you are doing this for humanitarian issues, that's fine and well. But to do this as a health practice seems bizarre to me. When you are injured and blood comes out, it hurts. Blood is designed to clot on contact with air so as to close the wound as soon as possible. Can you imagine paleo people willingly bleeding themselves on purpose and for enjoyment or as a form of medical practice? Bloodletting only came about in an age where most people were eating a very unnatural diet, based on grains, which would actually promote anemia. Even if bloodletting was an effective method for reducing iron in the blood, this would only be necessary if your body has a problem eliminating iron, since elimination is what you're doing. However, it seems to me that creating new blood, with the great nutritional and building requirements it has, simply for the sake of eliminating iron, puts a big strain on your body, and I believe it could in fact be much more likely to age you quickly. We know that things that destroy blood cells (as well as other cells), such as alcohol consumption, age us faster. Here you are technically destroying (or rather, eliminating) blood cells on purpose. While you don't have to deal with the cleanup of dead cells that would result from heavy alcohol consumption, you do have to deal with the big task of constantly replenishing your blood supply. Finally, all of that new blood requires iron to make. So when you do that, your body is more likely to hold on to iron. I would worry that continually doing this would set your body up for iron retention.

You said that you might have a genetic mutation for increased iron intake. When do you suppose this mutation came about? Scandinavian people aren't particularly known for a heavy grain dependence, since little grain can be grown there. If anything we would expect to find this mutation in people who relied heavily on grains and thus needed such increased iron absorption - therefore it would be most likely present mainly in people from northeast asia, and to a lesser extent india, the middle east and europe and central and south america.

About the vaccuum cleaning, it could simply be the EMF like you mentioned, or more likely still, the air you are breathing. House dust is not the same as dirt in nature. House dust is full of toxic elements that come off the walls, off all kinds of plastic and treated wood and paper; particles from all sorts of aerosol sprays including deodorant and even poison (bug spray), soaps and detergents and other chemicals used in cleaning, etc. When you vaccuum a house, many of those chemical toxins end up in your lungs, nostrils and general respiratory tract, as well as on your skin and your eyes. They are then absorbed to your bloodstream and your liver and kidneys have to process many of them. Perhaps you could wear a cottonmask for blocking some of the dust you breathe in while doing this task, and see if it improves the issue. If it does, you could also add protective goggles and clothes that expose as little skin as possible, and avoiding makeup (which can make the dust stick to your skin more easily)

As a side issue, I'm curious as to where you are sourcing your raw coconut oil, since almost all coconut oils are actually cooked, even if they say they're not.

Well,
do not ask me how that mutation happened, but it did. And it was in Ireland. Exactly where my ancestors come from.
This mutation also helped people survive when the black death came along. Because iron was hidden from the blood into the organs, people survived it. Because that bacteria or was it a virus(?) was feeding on iron!
So even if the blood does not have too much iron, it gets accumulated into the organs and bones(arthritis), and that is why it is hard to detect. There are many different degrees of it. And the mineral balance is so important too.

Donating blood is not dangerous as long as you follow up your blood values and eat nutrient rich food, which I do. So I am not at all worried. I have lots of energy. I feel like I have lots of "blood", enough to share... ;) :)
And it is mostly iron that is present in the blood, not other minerals. So it is the iron mostly that gets depleted, which I want.
I am confident that I am doing something good for me, and if it is not, I am not doing anything risky, I am under the doctors supervision, I can only give blood 4 times/year. Also I continue eating lots of animal foods raw, just not red meat, and if, very limited amounts.

I will do frequent blood testing too, to check where I am going. :)

PS. Bleeding is not a dangerous thing at all. People have always got injuries, and bleed, also women bleed through their period, and childbirth etc etc. Of course excess bleeding can kill you, but I am doing it very moderately - not doing phlebotomies on myself or anything like that ;)


Offline Eric

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2020, 01:38:20 am »
How much red meat have you been eating, about, the last years? I have had at least a pound of raw beef or lamb every day. Often even more.

Most of the meat I eat is red meat, mostly wild game (whitetail deer) mixed with pork back fat. I do not eat much actual meat, maybe a pound each day or a bit less. Most of my calories come from fat, or from acorns (I process acorns into flour and make a delicious, high-fat, high-fiber porridge from them).

Offline norawnofun

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2020, 05:12:50 am »
@littleelefant I don´t know which supplements he recommends. You might find that info on his website https://therootcauseprotocol.com/about/morley-robbins/ There is his facebook group as well called https://www.facebook.com/groups/MagnesiumAdvocacy/ for sure they would know it. But he also mentioned the castor pack precisely for people that can´t donate due to their weight limitation. Another way to circumvent this would be to do the blood donation in a non public environment, privately or even at home.

Then of course you always have to be careful of any supplemental recommendations of any of these health advocates. There is no "guru" that knows it all. For example..he recommends cod liver oil, something that can be very dangerous. There is no health advocate I know of that seems to be right in everything they say. Be it Aajonus, GCB, Garrett Smith, Morley, Shawn Baker, Sally K. Norton, Dr. Berg... Always use ur own brain before taking any kind of supplements. I do believe that nature can provide us with most if not all of what we need, if our senses are working well and if you are able to connect with nature and yourself.

@dario I would recommend listening to these 2 podcasts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nofRzKj0UgA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urk-i6RmSEI they give you a pretty good insight why iron is causing problems, why blood donation is good and how minerals such as copper first surfaced on planet earth.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 05:28:18 am by norawnofun »

Offline littleElefant

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2020, 06:19:38 am »
Well, many thanks norawnofun, now I have a lot to study.
i did my blood tests today and I asked the nurse to take a bit more blood then needed she was very gentle and to my surprise she drawed the double amount of blood, so I released 50 ml today and I feel a lot better already. it is not as much as the  500 Inger could give but it is a start. i recognised that the blood was thick and dark red at the beginning and lighter at the end of the donation. It is like the aderlass donation from the holly Hildegard von Bingen, it is still practiced here in in germany and i m considering doing it. It is a bit pricy though. There they let the blood flow out until it turns light in color . Normaly they take between 50 and 150ml
Friday I m getting my test results and I will get the ip6 tomorrow
I m courious 

Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2020, 09:51:40 pm »
Most of the meat I eat is red meat, mostly wild game (whitetail deer) mixed with pork back fat. I do not eat much actual meat, maybe a pound each day or a bit less. Most of my calories come from fat, or from acorns (I process acorns into flour and make a delicious, high-fat, high-fiber porridge from them).

Acorns? Wow.. that is interesting! I had no idea one could eat that :) Awesome :) How does it makes you feel, how does it digest?

Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2020, 10:00:01 pm »
@littleelefant I don´t know which supplements he recommends. You might find that info on his website https://therootcauseprotocol.com/about/morley-robbins/ There is his facebook group as well called https://www.facebook.com/groups/MagnesiumAdvocacy/ for sure they would know it. But he also mentioned the castor pack precisely for people that can´t donate due to their weight limitation. Another way to circumvent this would be to do the blood donation in a non public environment, privately or even at home.

Then of course you always have to be careful of any supplemental recommendations of any of these health advocates. There is no "guru" that knows it all. For example..he recommends cod liver oil, something that can be very dangerous. There is no health advocate I know of that seems to be right in everything they say. Be it Aajonus, GCB, Garrett Smith, Morley, Shawn Baker, Sally K. Norton, Dr. Berg... Always use ur own brain before taking any kind of supplements. I do believe that nature can provide us with most if not all of what we need, if our senses are working well and if you are able to connect with nature and yourself.

@dario I would recommend listening to these 2 podcasts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nofRzKj0UgA and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urk-i6RmSEI they give you a pretty good insight why iron is causing problems, why blood donation is good and how minerals such as copper first surfaced on planet earth.

I so agree on this! No one has everything right. We always need to think for our selves and try stuff out and use our intelligent amd listen to our bodies. We are all so different anyways, genetically, different climates, environments etc.

I have been looking into copper bioavailability and found some interesting stuff


https://www.rainbow.coop/library/copper-absorption-and-bioavailability/

https://paperity.org/p/95898724/copper-absorption-and-bioavailability

The article above said that rats got copper deficiency when fed raw meat. That was interesting.
And that cooking meat increases copper absorption. Okay we are not rats but it might be the same for humans. Who knows. Anyways it is very clear to me now that seafood is meant to be a large part of my diet :)
Also that ascorbic acid inhibits copper absorbtion. Wow... and there was a time I added ascorbic acid to my diet as a supplement because I thought it was a nice thing.. I did not notice anything though so I stopped it pretty fast. man that was not a great idea at all. Because it also helps iron absorption, thus increasing the mineral imbalance between copper and iron that I already had, and that anyone on a mainly muscle meat diet wil  eventually suffer from I think....

I am looking into naturally increasing copper because I am not going to supplement it. It is way too risky for me. I do not like supplements anyways, when it is possible to get it naturally. If I eat lots of seafood and oysters, I have a beautiful and great amount of copper in my diet, nicely balanced with other minerals  and bioavailable :) :)
I have been eating pretty much only seafood these last weeks for my protein, and I have to say it feels very right :)

« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 10:14:33 pm by Inger »

Offline Eric

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2020, 10:28:09 pm »
Acorns? Wow.. that is interesting! I had no idea one could eat that :) Awesome :) How does it makes you feel, how does it digest?

There is some processing involved. I have to leach out the tannins in the acorns. I have figured a way to do it pretty easily though. There are a lot of oak trees here, so it is a huge source of essentially free food that is high fiber, nutrient dense and calorie dense. The flour I make has about 500 kcal per 100 grams, which is much higher than the 340 kcal/100g in wheat flour. Most of acorns calories are from fat, especially monounsaturated fat.

I find acorns digest well and it makes me feel good. It is a wild, locally-derived food, so leaves me feeling connected to my local landscape. I am a man of the oaks. They sustain me.

Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2020, 12:45:40 am »
Wow.. Eric, I love that! We have tons of acorns here too... can you please share how you do it step by step so I can try it too?
I love local wild foods... they are just my favorite!

Offline Inger

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Re: Iron overload on raw meat diet
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2020, 11:02:09 pm »
I took my first dosis of IP6 yesterday, and today again. Fasted, in the morning, 1 hour before breakfast.
2 pills, as iot says on the package. That is about 1000 mg/day.
I think it was too much, it made me a litte dizzy. I will take only one pill tomorrow and see how it goes. After all I donated blood recently and I might need to go slow because it does not happen over night that my body pulls the excess iron from the organs into the blood. It is a slow process... takes weeks or up to 2 months until the iron is back in the blood, that is why you have to keep 2 months between donations.

 

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