Author Topic: Fat ratio experiment  (Read 23618 times)

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Offline Nicola

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2008, 09:32:07 pm »
Lex, I just read that one needs to drink more on a high fat diet; can or do you need to drink more?

I have also read the opposite; high fat less/no water!

Why do some diet gurus

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2003/11/21/dr_jan_kwasniewskis_diet_is_not_atkin_dietupdate.htm

or Peter

http://www.high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/

stay out of keto?

Nicola

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2008, 01:12:33 am »
Nicola/Craig

Craig, redistribution of body composition is a good thing! - especially when it appears that lean is replacing fat!

Nicola, I take all the gurus with a grain of salt.  They talk about what's going on in the liver, kidneys, heart, brain etc and the truth is, they really don't know.  There are general things that have been proven in the lab, like your body doesn't store fat easily unless insulin is present, or that many types of cancer are glucose dependent, however, exactly where and how the body does what it does is just speculation - we just don't know.  This allows gurus to say whatever they want without fear because there is no way to easily prove them wrong.

I have the greastest respect for Mary because she clearly states that what she says is her current opinion, and is her best guess based on her research and personal experience, but in truth there is really no way to know for sure.  This is why Mary, Kata, and others worth listening too encourage you to think things through for yourself, do your own experiments, and come to your own conclusions, as they are just as valid as anything put forth by the popular gurus of the day.

lex

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2008, 01:22:41 am »
Nicola,
I just noticed that I got so carried away with my rant on gurus that I forgot to answer your question about my fluid intake.  I haven't made any conscious effort to increase it.  I just drink when I'm thirsty.  I'd say I consume between 1 and 2 litres of water per day and this amount has been consistent for some time.

Lex

Offline Nicola

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2008, 04:21:53 am »
Lex, that about the drinking came from Mary. The body is going to react - like your leg cramps; supplements are now answer like you said.

I had a few nights with cramps, tryed salt for 2 days - because some gurus told me I should and others told me should not - but I don't "think" salt was the supplement needed? I had more cramps eating vegetarian with lots of salt; most of them when swimming! Perhaps this happens when the body is over acid?

Perhaps if you did some stretching before going to bed and make shore to have fresh air (open window)...and a good walk every day?

Nicola

I bet that I will have a leg cramp tonight... >:(


Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2008, 08:29:19 am »
Drinking more water is certainly something worth trying.  I almost always drink at least 16 oz upon arising in the morning and then again before going to bed at night.  Then I only drink during the day if I'm thirsty - usually a couple more 16 oz glasses.  No harm in trying a bit more water however.  Good idea.

lex

Satya

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2008, 09:30:40 am »
Drinking more water is certainly something worth trying.  I almost always drink at least 16 oz upon arising in the morning and then again before going to bed at night.  Then I only drink during the day if I'm thirsty - usually a couple more 16 oz glasses.  No harm in trying a bit more water however.  Good idea.

lex
 

If you have good, hard water or get the fancy mineral variety, you will get those minerals (obviously). 

Offline wodgina

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2008, 09:59:29 am »
Have you ever had electroshock therapy? I haven't but you get these brain zaps, especially when you're so drained and about to fall asleep. I imagine that's what electroshock would feel like. It sucked! Thank God I didn't die! You have to titrate yourself off so as not to put yourself into complete shock.

I've experienced these brain zaps (plus many other things)  on Zoloft many years ago, I quit it after only 5 days. The only reason why I took was because the uni counselor said he would not see people with anxiety unless they were on anti depressants. What a bizarre and ridiculous concept.

Incidentally I got struck by lightning 2 weeks ago, the lightning hit a wire fence I was jogging next to I got electrocuted and knocked to the ground. The experience wasn't dissimilar :)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 10:02:30 am by wodgina6722 »
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #32 on: June 18, 2008, 12:05:03 pm »
Incidentally I got struck by lightning 2 weeks ago, the lightning hit a wire fence I was jogging next to I got electrocuted and knocked to the ground. The experience wasn't dissimilar :)

I had a SHOCKING experience when I was about 14.  I was building a science fair project that required a 12,000 volt neon sign transformer.  12,000 volts will make an arc well over an inch under certain conditions.  I touched something I shouldn't have and the arc went in my right index finger and came out under my thumb on my left palm.  My armpits met in the middle and I passed out on the floor.  It's a wonder my heart didn't stop.  My chest and arms were sore for days from the super muscle contractions.  I still have the scars on my finger and palm to remind me of my foolishness.

I guess I shouldn't be so concerned about diet and other health related issues - I've been living on barrowed time since I was a kid.

Lex

xylothrill

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2008, 12:24:24 pm »
I've experienced these brain zaps (plus many other things)  on Zoloft many years ago, I quit it after only 5 days. The only reason why I took was because the uni counselor said he would not see people with anxiety unless they were on anti depressants. What a bizarre and ridiculous concept.

Incidentally I got struck by lightning 2 weeks ago, the lightning hit a wire fence I was jogging next to I got electrocuted and knocked to the ground. The experience wasn't dissimilar :)

I've never actually been stricken by lightning. I feel for you though and I'm glad you're here to tell the tale! I was on Paxil and Xanax for months and I didn't care about anything. I got tired of being a zombie and the brain zaps came while withdrawing. Just moving my head would bring on a slight zap with a humming noise.

I would advise against anything that messes with brain chemicals. I was on Zyban once, to quit smoking. Zyban is the same as Welbutrin, an antidepressant. While on it, I had the urge to physically attack anyone who looked at me the wrong way. Oh, I'd snap at people and the thoughts would never leave my mind! One day, I angrily said something completely insensitive and uncalled for to someone who was expressing grief. I'd offended her but in my mind she was attacking me. I had to make myself sit down and force myself to think logically about what I'd said. That was the end of the Zyban! It was pretty scary.

The Zyban made me a psychopath while on it. The Paxil and Xanax gave me homicidal thoughts while withdrawing from it. I'd fantasize about bludgeoning to death a co-worker who made me angry for something trivial.That is NOT my nature.

Going zero carb has been the best thing that's happened to me regarding my mental well-being. I can "feel" again and am not quick to anger. Little things don't bother me but I still have a touch of OCD. OCD might not be the right word. I don't wash my hands over and over again and I don't have to close a door seven times but when I get focused on something I'm interested in, it consumes my time until I can get it figured out.

Mental disorders run in my family and I believe that carbs - especially neolithic carbs play a large role in them.

xylothrill

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2008, 12:31:09 pm »
I had a SHOCKING experience when I was about 14.  I was building a science fair project that required a 12,000 volt neon sign transformer.  12,000 volts will make an arc well over an inch under certain conditions.  I touched something I shouldn't have and the arc went in my right index finger and came out under my thumb on my left palm.  My armpits met in the middle and I passed out on the floor.  It's a wonder my heart didn't stop.  My chest and arms were sore for days from the super muscle contractions.  I still have the scars on my finger and palm to remind me of my foolishness.

I guess I shouldn't be so concerned about diet and other health related issues - I've been living on barrowed time since I was a kid.

Lex

Yes you have and you'll prevail! You've overcome so much already! What are the chances that two people have been electrocuted in this very thread? I'm thinking of splitting this topic since it's gone off on a tangent unless it's okay with you to leave these in your thread.

Craig

Satya

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2008, 11:04:45 pm »
Incidentally I got struck by lightning 2 weeks ago, the lightning hit a wire fence I was jogging next to I got electrocuted and knocked to the ground. The experience wasn't dissimilar :)

Wow, Andrew!  I am glad you are okay.  Did you need any help getting home after that?  Or did you just get up and start jogging again?  Did you get burned at all?  Stay well!

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2008, 09:31:44 am »
I'm thinking of splitting this topic since it's gone off on a tangent unless it's okay with you to leave these in your thread.

Just leave them in the thread Craig.  The electrocution thing has probably run it's course and I doubt a new thread would attract much additional comment.

Lex

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #37 on: June 22, 2008, 10:31:38 pm »
New Journal entry posted for 3rd week update.

Lex

Offline TheWayCreatesTheWarrior

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #38 on: July 02, 2008, 10:02:02 pm »
I've never actually been stricken by lightning. I feel for you though and I'm glad you're here to tell the tale! I was on Paxil and Xanax for months and I didn't care about anything. I got tired of being a zombie and the brain zaps came while withdrawing. Just moving my head would bring on a slight zap with a humming noise.

I would advise against anything that messes with brain chemicals. I was on Zyban once, to quit smoking. Zyban is the same as Welbutrin, an antidepressant. While on it, I had the urge to physically attack anyone who looked at me the wrong way. Oh, I'd snap at people and the thoughts would never leave my mind! One day, I angrily said something completely insensitive and uncalled for to someone who was expressing grief. I'd offended her but in my mind she was attacking me. I had to make myself sit down and force myself to think logically about what I'd said. That was the end of the Zyban! It was pretty scary.

The Zyban made me a psychopath while on it. The Paxil and Xanax gave me homicidal thoughts while withdrawing from it. I'd fantasize about bludgeoning to death a co-worker who made me angry for something trivial.That is NOT my nature.

Going zero carb has been the best thing that's happened to me regarding my mental well-being. I can "feel" again and am not quick to anger. Little things don't bother me but I still have a touch of OCD. OCD might not be the right word. I don't wash my hands over and over again and I don't have to close a door seven times but when I get focused on something I'm interested in, it consumes my time until I can get it figured out.

Mental disorders run in my family and I believe that carbs - especially neolithic carbs play a large role in them.

whenever i ate carbs, especially junk food carbs i would always feel angry, and extremely agitated with anything anyone one would do, like someone could just walk by me and i would be offended and would get the urge to physically attack them, it was pretty crazy. i would also drive really fast and angrily, like i just wanted to get there quick, i think it was actually just me trying to get away from myself.
eating paleo makes me very calm and much more accepting of things happening around me without needing to react negartively to them.
There can be no mercy in the heart, of the heart, of the Wolf.

xylothrill

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2008, 10:32:24 am »
whenever i ate carbs, especially junk food carbs i would always feel angry, and extremely agitated with anything anyone one would do, like someone could just walk by me and i would be offended and would get the urge to physically attack them, it was pretty crazy. i would also drive really fast and angrily, like i just wanted to get there quick, i think it was actually just me trying to get away from myself.
eating paleo makes me very calm and much more accepting of things happening around me without needing to react negartively to them.

When on SAD, Chinese food would do that to me. I'd crave the stuff even though it'd make me feel angry. It was probably the carbs and/or the MSG.

I used to get road rage too but now I just jam to my music and reach my destination sometimes without even remembering significant landmarks I've crossed, such as a large bridge. I'm so calm that I'm on autopilot much of the time. I think high carbs puts us in a perpetual state of awareness and maybe even some anxiety. You become focused on your surroundings seeing everything as a potential threat. This creates stress, anger and a desire to retaliate at the bozo who nearly clipped your front bumper. On raw paleo, my reaction is more likely to be "Whoah! that was close!" The threat was brief and no harm done and go back into my mind.  Before, there'd be the desire to catch up to the threat and give him the finger or honk and shake fist at him. Stress, anxiety, and the perception of danger seems to be exaggerated on a standard diet.

Craig

Craig

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2008, 04:16:32 am »
Hey Lex I know you listed the amount in grams of food you eat but maybe you could take a picture of it next to a standard object like a deck of cards or some other way describe how much food it is?

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2008, 12:18:47 pm »
Kyle,
Here is a picture of what I eat everyday.  It is a mixture of 2 lbs Slankers Chili Beef, 1.5 lbs Slankers Dog & Cat, and 300 grams of ground suet.  I let the chubs of beef and pet food thaw in a bowl to catch any juices.  I keep the suet frozen until just before I'm ready to mix everything as it is easier to grind when cold - not so sticky.  When the beef and pet food are thawed I weigh out the fat, slice it into chunks to fit my small Chop-Rite #5 hand grinder with 1/2" plate and grind away.  Then I mix everything together kneeding it like bread dough.  Once thoroughly mixed I divide it equally by weight into three 3 1/4 cup Glad plastic containers with lids and pop into the refrigerator until I'm ready to eat.  The whole grinding and mixing process takes 15-20 minutes and I have 3 days worth of food.

Each portion weighs between 620 and 650 grams which is an ounce or two shy of 1 1/2 lbs.  The fat is 30% by weight and the Fat/Protein ratio by calories is 80/20.  Total calories are between 2000 and 2100.

lex
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 12:24:14 pm by lex_rooker »

Offline wodgina

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2008, 03:49:41 pm »
Its late afternoon and that's making me hungry believe it or not!
Mine looks similiar but less dark bits, oh and I don't use a place mat... :D
I use a food processor to smash up the suet then chuck in the ground beef to mix it through. Very similiar fat protein amounts, I don't always finish mine.


“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #43 on: July 17, 2008, 12:32:39 am »
The dark chunks are from the Chili Beef.  It is has rather large chunks which I like.  It gives me something to chew.  I started off using regular ground beef but the consistency was like eating thick oatmeal. I much prefer having something to chew.

Lex

Offline Raw Kyle

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #44 on: July 17, 2008, 02:38:59 am »
I can't see the picture. You know come to think of it sometimes I can't see peoples links on this site and sometimes I can. I remember Satya having trouble seeing one of your links too, and I couldn't see that one. But sometimes I can see them. I'll have to get Craig on this.

xylothrill

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #45 on: July 17, 2008, 03:27:21 am »
I thought that was Tyler who couldn't see Lex's pdf. I don't know what the problem could be. Here's a link to Lex's pic: http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/fat-ratio-experiment/?action=dlattach;attach=108

Can you see that?

Craig

Satya

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #46 on: July 17, 2008, 03:46:10 am »
I thought that was Tyler who couldn't see Lex's pdf. I don't know what the problem could be. Here's a link to Lex's pic: http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/general-discussion/fat-ratio-experiment/?action=dlattach;attach=108

Can you see that?

Craig

No, I haven't been able to see Lex's last 2 pics.  They don't show up for me.  And your link gives me an error, fyi.

xylothrill

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #47 on: July 17, 2008, 03:49:40 am »
Well that would suck if we all had to use photobucket! I wonder why this is happening. Only guests should be restricted from viewing attachments. If you're logged in, you're supposed to be able to see them.

Craig

Satya

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #48 on: July 17, 2008, 04:00:47 am »
You know, I always upload images to the server and then use an image tag on this forum.

Offline Nicola

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Re: Fat ratio experiment
« Reply #49 on: July 17, 2008, 04:22:43 am »
Hi Lex,

do you notice any difference when you don't eat the dog&cat - just beef and suet, like you did on holiday? Organs could not have been a big part of paleo diet; one hart, liver...per kill for x people is my thought...

have you noticed a difference on digestion eating high fat (stools; remember what your sister noticed with feeding dogs raw meat and fat) and what about drinking -some drink very little, the more fat they eat?

Nicola

 

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