Author Topic: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'  (Read 21933 times)

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Offline Josh

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2009, 01:35:06 am »
I reckon we're addicted to strong flavours from an early age..you learn to associate good taste with anything with loads of calories. A Paleo human wouldn't have been exposed to all that.

Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2009, 01:39:04 am »
If it was just of weak taste, why would I struggle to eat it? Why would it have more calories cooked also? Is it because when it's cooked and it's broken down, the calories can be more detected in the mouth, but raw they're more preserved to be digested and absorbed in the gut?

In time will I feel like eating more raw meat?
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Offline Josh

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2009, 01:54:21 am »
All I mean is you're used to associating certain foods with calories, and also used to a certain set of 'normal' foods.

Yeh, I have got a lot more used to raw meat but it might never taste as good as childhood comfort food for example.

Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2009, 01:58:07 am »
Do you feel like eating lots of raw meat in one go? I was taking the tiniest nibbles off of it and got through very little of it; I don't feel like eating more of the raw meat, and my stomach is not asking for more food.. but I do feel like I need more energy and protein. My gums are sore from too much fruit already though.. so that is no option for energy. =/
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Offline Josh

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2009, 02:04:31 am »
Maybe back off the fruit and try and eat meat and fat when you're hungry..fruit is a bit all or nothing for me. If I eat it first I just want to eat nothing else.

Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2009, 02:29:50 am »
Just on a side note about fat: Way back when I was eating cooked meat(like a few days ago) I bought some 'Beef Dripping'. I notice some people here will get 'suet' and eat it, which is just fat? But is it called dripping because it was cooked out of the meat, so that it dripped out? If so it would not be wise to eat it as I'm trying this raw stuff out.

_______________________________________

Tried some 'New Zealand Lamb's Liver', put it in the oven at 40(deg)C for about 15mins to get it to like room temp. I only managed 2 pieces and felt I would be sick after that... What change actually occurs that makes it taste ok? Is it just the body's desparation for food that makes it give up waiting for what it wants(cooked)? Or is it some sort of adaptation?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 04:31:50 am by miles »
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Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2009, 05:10:59 am »
Unless someone is able to answer my question about what makes raw meat gradually taste better, I'm planning on trying oven cooking (rather than microwaving, which I did previously before trying raw), to see what difference that makes... Although, it could be taking steps backward to some degree...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 05:31:14 am by miles »
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Offline yon yonson

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2009, 05:41:22 am »
miles, you gotta be a bit more patient. i promise, it will start tasting good after a while. now cooked stuff tastes really strange to me. not bad but i definitely don't get excited to eat it. obviously your tastes buds just havent gotten used to raw meat yet. now you can oven cook stuff if you want but you didn't really give raw any sort of a chance. one day raw and you're deciding to quit? my suggestion is give it time. good luck

Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2009, 05:45:51 am »
miles, you gotta be a bit more patient. i promise, it will start tasting good after a while. now cooked stuff tastes really strange to me. not bad but i definitely don't get excited to eat it. obviously your tastes buds just havent gotten used to raw meat yet. now you can oven cook stuff if you want but you didn't really give raw any sort of a chance. one day raw and you're deciding to quit? my suggestion is give it time. good luck

People keep saying that my taste buds will adapt.. but what IS this adaptation? What physical transformation actually occurs..? does the body just become so desperate for protein that it stops holding out for cooked meat and just makes any source of protein start to taste good(which just happens to be raw meat). OR does the body actually go through some adaptation which allows it to handle raw meat better? Because if it tastes foul now, and there is no actual physical adaptation aside from desperation, then I.. -_-

I am worried to give it too much of a chance, people talk about it taking months, and I will rapidly lose weight if I can't eat more than I am now. I haven't felt strong enough to do any exercise today, with the tiny amount of meat which I've been able to consume raw.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2009, 06:08:13 am »
t 40(deg)C for about 15mins to get it to like room temp. I only managed 2 pieces and felt I would be sick after that... What change actually occurs that makes it taste ok? Is it just the body's desparation for food that makes it give up waiting for what it wants(cooked)? Or is it some sort of adaptation?

Liver is different.  A liver will make you feel sick regardless of whether it is cooked or raw if the animal is unhealthy or most probably not organic.  The reflex action you just experienced with your taste buts and stomach is telling you the liver you got is probably toxic.  That has happened to me with chicken livers.

Animal liver health is different from one animal to the next.

I have the luxury of going to the wet market and be able to choose from several fresh beef livers unfrozen and be able to taste it on the spot.  Since I can compare, I can see which livers are healthy.  The butchers know themselves.

Healthy raw beef liver always tastes really good even for people who are not used to raw foods... they are surprised to taste healthy raw beef liver and learn that it tastes good... they wonder why they are cooking liver.  My kids in fact will only eat raw beef liver and not cooked beef liver because cooked beef liver tastes awful... they did not need to adapt to liver.

Try my "raw" liver recipe for kids http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/omnivorous-raw-paleo/recipe-to-make-delicious-raw-beef-liver-children-will-love/

Your best bet with liver or any meat is to order from the same source as the people in your country so that you are tasting the same thing they say tastes great.


With beef I had to try several wet markets and taste which ones tasted good... it will be natural to gravitate to one that tastes great... the obvious grass fed yellow fat beef.

My transition to eating raw meat came with steaks.  I seared for 30 seconds per side.  Then down to 20, 10, 5 seconds then none.  I did it with my kids.  The kids testified that anything longer than 10 seconds makes the steak tough. 

Of course condiment free.  Try cooked meat paleo with zero condiments first.  Then less and less heat.

Here's Geoff's tips that helped me immensely http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/important-info-for-newbies/sticky-advice-for-newbies-wishing-to-slowly-ease-into-a-raw-animal-food-diet/
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 06:13:56 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2009, 06:10:51 am »
I don't know how I would be able to tell if liver is good or not... I don't have the money to afford special stuff. =/

What is the adaptation to normal muscle meat then?? Since I never ate liver before anyway..
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2009, 06:15:04 am »
Try refreshing your browser.  I did an edit above.
-----------

Organic beef has superior taste over grain fed.
The taste is so obvious.
A few days ago I was with a customer in a swanky restaurant and was forced to order seared bloody bloody bloody steak (told the waiter special orders for the cook)
The swanky restaurant beef was not organic, or the variety did not taste good, I'm spoiled by my beef source.  The butchers know what I like, first class organic batangas beef.

You save a lot of money with raw meat because you eat less raw meat than if you cook it.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 06:20:34 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2009, 08:27:17 am »
I am wondering if the reason why humans cook food is because they are omnivores. Maybe cooking does allow more macronutrient absorption, but perhaps the corruption of these macronutrients, and the loss of micronutrients means that you need to supplement strongly with fruit/veg to counter these issues. If humans couldn't eat veg/fruit then they would need to eat the meat raw to get their micronutrients. So maybe raw meat will only taste good if you do stop eating fruit/veg?

Or maybe the heat initially accelerates absorption and makes one feel like they need more, but when the food cools down, the process does too and one's left with more food than they need...

Although, like the Good Samaritan said, I think it would be good for me to try some of the raw meat that people in the UK say is good. So if anyone has suggestions, I could make a small order first to find out...

Actually though, I just oven-cooked(High temp - 250(deg)C) some beef-mince as opposed to microwaving it, and I've not given it long but I might be seeing why some people had digestion problems with cooked meat... as it's making my stomach kind of uncomfortable now.. but I'd need longer to make a judgement. The fact that it was mince though, would expose more surface area to the carcinogenic effects of cooking.

I may not be experiencing quite the same downer I usually do after microwave meat, I'm not sure yet, but the feeling of fullness is something I wouldn't experience with the microwaving.. It's the feeling of fullness similar to that one gets when eating grains with this oven-cooked meat. After microwave meat, I feel like I COULD run around and jump if I wanted to and wouldn't feel sick.. but that I don't actually have any energy to do so and would send myself in to some deficit and would rather just sit around. However, now I feel like I couldn't run around, but if I did I would have the energy to do so. o_O It's very soon to make judgements ofc, but I am wondering if raw meat would have the best of both.. None of the digestive upset of the oven-cooked, and none of the fatigue of the microwave cooked. =/

Come to think of it... the other method of cooking meat which gave me huge downtimes was frying ZOMG... Frying and Microwaving both have something in common; they both target fats with the most intense heat... So the damaged fat is what gives the downtimes perhaps? hm... then the slightly 'bloated' feeling if that's the right term. It'll be something to do with the burning of the meat. Although it's not black, it's a hell of a lot darker than red, which is how it started out... However I'd need time to see that the burnt aspect wasn't actually acting like fibre and speeding the food's journey thus making me feel like I have more energy. o_O With apologies for the rudeness.. in the name of science I must add that this consumption WAS followed by faecal excretion; which follows the 'burnt meat is like fibre' path. I hate to think of the damage I would cause to be digestive tract if I were to consume such intensely cooked meat in the long term; I expect it would be somewhat similar to the effect of grains, judging by the short-term effects.

I may see what happens with gradually decreasing the oven temperature and keeping the same duration... Judging by what some people have said, it seems as though it could be risky to eat heavily cooked meat and raw meat in conjunction, however, gradually easing towards raw should be OK. This time though, I plan to stop at the lowest temperature which I can comfortably eat, and not push myself(unless I actually decide that I am actually happy with my newly discovered, intensely oven-cooked meat). That is, until I can get hold of some HQ Pasture-fed meat for a fair raw-trial.

Goodnight Fellows. I shall continue to update on my situation tomorrow...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 09:27:51 am by miles »
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2009, 05:01:40 pm »
There are 2 paths if you don't want to go cold turkey. Either you gradually reduce the cooking temperature every so often until you're eventually used to raw meat at room-temperature and/or you can go in for blending raw foods in food-mixers/blenders with various processed sauces, then switching to raw sauces over time.

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Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2009, 08:19:22 pm »
I already went straight to raw for a day, but none of it tasted good; I thought it was because it was poor quality meat?
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2009, 09:10:20 pm »
Poor quality meat tastes bad, even today that I'm adapted to raw.  In fact, now that I'm used to raw, my taste buds are more sensitive.

Plus when you eat raw meat, you must be very hungry.

I think there is also the brain wiring / mental block, the zero condiments, the socializing aspect, the temperature of the meat (has to be room temperature, not straight from the ref).  Also the chewing is different.  Raw meat is more like chew less then swallow.  Especially raw fats.

Maybe my kids will make you smile.  If they think raw beef is delicious, it must be delicious:

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Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2009, 02:08:43 am »
The kids did make me smile =)

I had oven meat today and it was no better than microwaved energy wise... Initially I started off by living off of Corned beef, Tinned Pork, Tinned Sardines, tinned tuna, tinned salmon etc.. I remember now and again I would have some fried mince or something and it would make me feel really out of energy(like all cooked meat still does, but I assumed it must be better; it had less salt and that allowed me to eat more of it...). I got to a point where I decided that I was having far too much salt(what I was consuming had loads of it), so I started cooking my meat myself(also thought it could reduce cost and seemed to allow me to eat more of it too). While I was getting my meat from tins, I would get to a point where I felt low on energy; then I would eat the tinned meat and feel energised... I would purposefully have a tin before I went to do some exercise so I would be able to keep going. I genuinely don't know what it is... When I eat cooked chicken breast which has virtually no fat in, that makes me feel tired too.

One thing that certainly doesn't make me feel tired, but energises me is salami(which is expensive and high in salt). Again though, that's cold o_O

It doesn't seem that anyone's experienced the same.. I feel that this could be because of the rancid-fat clogging my arteries and would thus take time to change, but.. hmm.. =/
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 02:14:10 am by miles »
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Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2009, 02:42:31 am »
I have been thinking that I need to sort my diet out before I return to my sport(which I was off to sort an injury) but it's possible, I suppose, that due to reduced exercise(apart from weights), that my capacity for ketosis has actually reduced. Maybe my diet isn't so bad after all and I've just got bad at using the fat. I am aware that after exercise [relating to another topic I've posted], that I actually smell less of ketones. Maybe sitting more, the fat is going rancid and clogging up my blood-stream and making me feel tired, but I'm eating just as much of it as I would before, because I'm so used to 2hr/day 7 day/week sports training(in addition to extra-exercise). Without my sport training, I've still tried to apply as much focus to my sport as I can so I've looked at my diet in detail for example(my sport is what matters to me so I can't bare to waste time even in injury). So perhaps I've been over-working problems which aren't really bad. I actually consciously tried to continue eating lots aswell, so that I would have plenty of energy to spend on recovery. It seems this could very well be my issue after all; and maybe I've been suffering hyper-chondriac like issues =) However, I've still learned a lot in the process if that is the case. I have still made certain improvements for SURE, much of which I can apply to good effect. I am actually returning to sport tomorrow. hm... =S

It's incredible, with something like diet, that the answers are not available. When we've been to the moon, fly super-fast aeroplanes, can contact people on the other side of the world and reach deep into the ocean, how poor the understanding of our own diet is. To find things out it takes pioneers though, like the people on this website. GL... I continue on my own quest for ultimate diet...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2009, 02:48:02 am by miles »
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2009, 03:03:37 am »
I already went straight to raw for a day, but none of it tasted good; I thought it was because it was poor quality meat?

MOST raw meat tastes bad to a cooked-dieter. It takes c.8-12 months for the taste-change to occur if you go cold-turkey.(longer if you keep on eating lots of cooked foods with the raw). The reason is simply that most people are used to cooked foods which actually have less taste than raw foods, so require lots of extra spices to enhance the taste. So, it takes time to get used to the richer taste of raw animal food. Of course, some raw foods are usually easier for people to get used to(like raw seafood) and , generally speaking, then richer the taste(such as raw organ-meats), the longer it will take for you to become accustomed to the taste of it.
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Offline miles

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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2009, 03:16:11 am »
I don't add anything to my cooked meats.. no flavourings or spices. Maybe the steak I had just tasted bland because I was taking such small bites?
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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2009, 10:34:40 am »
Raw venison sausage tasted OK to me the first time I tried it, even though I was still eating cooked meats. The second time I tried it I thought it was pretty good (though the farmer added too much sage). The third time I thought it was quite good. Then I found raw ground venison and loved it the first time I tried it. I buy whatever my local store carries and gobble it up quickly. I wish they carried more. It costs a bit more than pasture-fed beef, though.

The following are not RPD-approved foods, but I love beef jerky, suet and pemmican heated below 40 degrees celsius and it only took me a couple months to love jerky, 4 tries to love pemmican and about 6 or 7 tries to love melted suet. Maybe I was lucky. I still don't love raw grassfed ground beef though. I sometimes have to cheat a little to get it down--lightly cooking what's left when I can't eat any more, then I can eat that (which suggests to me that it's easier to eat more cooked food than raw, which may explain why many people, myself included, report losing weight on an all-raw diet--which most people see as a good thing, of course). By doing a bit more of the low-heat meats and fats I was able to get my weight moving back up again, and I'm more slowly weaning off of the heated stuff so I don't lose too much weight too quickly, like Lex did.
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Re: 'Cooked Meat Paleo' to 'Raw Meat Paleo'
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2009, 12:23:15 pm »
just eat the damn stuff man

 

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