Author Topic: Lex's Journal  (Read 709774 times)

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Offline wetroof

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1325 on: May 27, 2011, 12:08:59 pm »
Hi Lex, I was reading the guide you wrote on making a jerky drier. I noticed you said that your brought the meat for less than 3 dollars a pound at Costco. I think Costco probably only sells grain fed.  So, you do not use grass fed meat to make the jerky?

Why not?

I ask you this, because I am placing an order with Slankers, and getting 2 "eye of round roasts". This roast is 6 dollars a pound however. expensive compared to what I could get at Costco. And I have to wonder if the diet (grass vs grain) affects the nutritional quality of the muscle meat. I hear all the time it affects the fat. I assume the same with the muscle cells, but your guide has confused me. because it says you use meat from Costco.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 12:15:19 pm by wetroof »

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1326 on: May 27, 2011, 01:07:37 pm »
Hi Lex, I was reading the guide you wrote on making a jerky drier. I noticed you said that your brought the meat for less than 3 dollars a pound at Costco. I think Costco probably only sells grain fed.  So, you do not use grass fed meat to make the jerky?
Why not?

I ask you this, because I am placing an order with Slankers, and getting 2 "eye of round roasts". This roast is 6 dollars a pound however. expensive compared to what I could get at Costco. And I have to wonder if the diet (grass vs grain) affects the nutritional quality of the muscle meat. I hear all the time it affects the fat. I assume the same with the muscle cells, but your guide has confused me. because it says you use meat from Costco.

The jerky and pemmican manuals were written for a very wide audience, not just paleo folks.  The jerky manual in particular was originally written for the Boy Scouts and I’ve done dozens of presentations for Boy Scout troops and church youth groups.  Most of these people just want good inexpensive jerky and care little about whether it is grass-fed or not.

The pemmican manual has a wide appeal to campers, hikers, and backpackers who want a nutritious dense calorie source.  It has also become popular with folks who want to take their dog backpacking as a single food serves both the hiker and dog, and the dog can often carry its own food.  Again, this audience doesn’t care if the meat is grass-fed.

When giving demos I always use the cheapest source of meat I can find and Costco usually fills the bill.  For my personal use and the samples I send out to those interested in maintaining a paleo lifestyle, I use grass-fed meat.  I’m only set up to dry a maximum of about 40 lbs of meat at a time so I prefer to purchase my lean meat when I need it as I have very little room to store fresh or frozen meat.

I always use grass-fed fat for both as I usually render 200 to 300 pounds of fat at one time because I can render it all over one weekend, and once properly rendered it is easily stored without refrigeration. This way I only have to do this once a year.  I can usually find grass fed suet locally for about the same price as grain fed fat when purchasing in bulk.  The only hitch for local fat is that I usually have to drive to the supplier to pick it up.  In California I’ve found that Marin Sun Farms in the San Francisco area is a very good supplier but it means an all day trip up and back from where I live in Los Angeles as they won’t ship. This is fine for a fat run once a year, but not reasonable for small amounts of lean meat.   I purchase almost all my lean grass-fed meat from Slankers because their prices are competitive, their meat is very high quality, and they ship to my door for a very reasonable price.

If you are only going to use jerky as an afternoon treat like you would a candy bar, or pemmican as a supplemental food a few times a year when traveling or on vacation, Costco meat will probably do you just fine.  However, if you intend to make jerky or pemmican a major part of your diet, then I'd go grass fed.  It's what you eat most of the time that matters, not the occasional deviation when your normal food is unavailable or you want a tasty treat.  A stick or two of grain fed jerky as an afternoon treat won't have much impact if your main meal was 2,500 to 3,000 calories of grass fed meat and fat. 

Hope this makes sense,

Lex  
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 01:26:03 pm by lex_rooker »

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1327 on: May 27, 2011, 02:42:09 pm »
Nothing significant that I've noticed.  Sometimes if there is a large amount of connective tissue in the fat some of the raw fat won't get fully digested, but if it is well ground and/or chewed then everything seems to digest well - cooked or raw.  Can't say that stool diameter changes much with cooked or raw either, however, if I eat very high fat meals (80% of calories or above) then stools are soft and mushy, lower fat meals (60%-70% of calories) and stools are firm and well formed.

Thank you, Lex.

I hope to see some videos from you soon!
People can learn a lot from your amazing "health food" history.

Have you got rid of the rest of your kidney stones?

Best wishes

Löwenherz

Offline wetroof

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1328 on: May 28, 2011, 01:55:50 am »
Hi Lex thank you for the response. I just felt like I needed confirmation that you think grass fed muscle meat is superior to grain fed. But I believe this myself so I'm not sure why I had to ask you. I guess to confirm--and now I understand your guide is for a wide audience, not people eating a "paleo" diet necessarily.

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In California I’ve found that Marin Sun Farms in the San Francisco area is a very good supplier but it means an all day trip up and back from where I live in Los Angeles as they won’t ship. This is fine for a fat run once a year, but not reasonable for small amounts of lean meat
I was wondering what your SF source for the grass fed fat was, because I live in San Francisco, and now you have told me. Thanks.







Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1329 on: May 28, 2011, 03:54:40 am »
Have you got rid of the rest of your kidney stones?

I really don't know.  My doctor hesitates to do unnecessary x-rays so don't know if there are stones lying in wait to make my life miserable, or if the extra water I drink has solved the problem.  I think January of 2010 was the last incident.  I suppose time will tell.  I can tell you that I'm not looking forward to another bout.  They are very painful - to the point of causing muscle spasms and involuntary vomiting.  Wouldn't wish kidney stones on anyone.

Lex

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1330 on: May 28, 2011, 04:08:23 am »
I was wondering what your SF source for the grass fed fat was, because I live in San Francisco, and now you have told me.

Really good people at Marin Sun Farms.  Their main store is out on the peninsula at Point Reyes Station on Highway 1.

10905 Highway 1
Point Reyes Station, CA 94956
(415) 663-8997

I usually take Sir Francis Drake Blvd from San Rafael out to where it dead ends into Hwy 1.  Turn right and its about 3 miles or so to the store.  It is an unbelievably beautiful drive.  Since I want a large amount of fat, I call several days ahead and tell them how much I want and they have it ready when I get there.  They also have rendered fat but I prefer to render my own as this way I have control of the process.

Lex

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1331 on: May 30, 2011, 07:51:14 am »
Lex, I have a thin, 2-inch thick, mattress now. My fitted sheets don't work well with it. What do you use for the underlayer sheet on your mattress?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1332 on: May 30, 2011, 12:22:34 pm »
Lex, I have a thin, 2-inch thick, mattress now. My fitted sheets don't work well with it. What do you use for the underlayer sheet on your mattress?

Sounds like my Japanese tatami mat days in my mid teens.  I dumped all my bedroom furnishings, stripped up the carpet and put down tatami mats.  Sat on traditional pillows and slept on a thin bed roll which I rolled up every morning and stowed in a plain wooden chest (like a small trunk) which was the only permanent fixture in my room. In the winter I added extra blankets, both under and on top, as my room often fell below freezing during the night. All my clothes were either hanging or on open shelves in my small closet.  A rather austere existence, but I thought I was cool.  My parents thought I was nuts.

In my late teens the water bed was all the rage so I dumped the tatami mats and bed roll and got a king sized water bed.  Took up most of my room.  Learned the hard way that it had to be heated.  The first night it was very warm, probably 90F, which was not unusual for the San Joaquin Valley in summer.  I filled my new bed with slightly warm water and laid down on the bed.  It was wonderful and felt slightly cool.  I drifted off to sleep thinking I'd found heaven.  At 3am I awoke with teeth chattering and shivering.  I'd never been so cold.  The water bed had sucked all the heat out of my body.  I ran down stairs and turned on the floor furnace and stood over it for about an hour trying to warm up.  My dad heard me and came down and saw me shaking and shivering, standing over the heater on a 90F night and just shook his head and went back up to bed.  Needless to say, I installed a heater for my water bed the next day.  My dad was not amused when he got the next electric bill.  He called the local electric company and them install a meter on my water bed heater and made me pay for the cost of keeping my bed warm enough to sleep in.

Alas, when I got married I sold out to the establishment and more traditional bedding.  Today I sleep in relative luxury on a latex foam mattress with regular fitted sheets, and a prime goose down comforter in the cooler months. Probably the antithesis of Paleo, but one must make sacrifices to maintain domestic bliss - not to mention that I sleep like a baby in such warmth and comfort.

Lex

Offline wodgina

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1333 on: May 30, 2011, 12:54:52 pm »
That was hilarious!
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1334 on: May 30, 2011, 09:39:46 pm »
A rather austere existence, but I thought I was cool.  My parents thought I was nuts.
Just a matter of social context. In Japan you would probably have fit right in, except that with their futons they apparently tend to use luxurious comforters, which you are now using.

I've noticed that Western mattresses have been getting thicker and thicker over the years. What was a normal mattress in my youth would now be largely regarded as unacceptably thin.

Somehow I had gotten the idea that your latex mattress was much thinner than the usual. I remember the water bed craze and was briefly tempted by it myself until I tested them out in the store and saw the prices. Thanks for the funny story.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 09:45:41 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1335 on: May 31, 2011, 12:26:54 am »
Yes, my mattress is about 15 inches thick.  I have no idea why. I'd guess I only sink down an inch or two at most.  The other 13 inches are pretty much wasted.  I guess like the fashion industry, the bedding industry has found that by making unnecessary changes chic, they can create demand.  After all, if you can no longer purchase sheets to fit your old bed you'll have to purchase new ones - unless you use plain flat sheets, and few have a clue how to do that anymore.  Come to think of it, I doubt that a common flat sheet would be large enough to wrap around one of these new behemoths.  As it is, I have trouble tucking in one of my old a blankets at the foot of the bed and still have it reach above my waist when lying down.  I think it is a conspiracy foisted on us by big business. I'm sure that one of the big conglomerate's figured out that if their bedding group made the mattress thicker, their linen group would benefit by supplying sheets and blankets, and their ladder group would benefit by making step stools so dogs and people could climb into bed. Clearly we need more government regulation in the bedding industry.  This would raise the cost so no one could afford a mattress and we'd all be back to tatami mats and bed rolls.

Lex

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1336 on: May 31, 2011, 11:22:03 am »
LOL I think you may be right Lex, because I don't understand what the extra thickness is supposed to do either. They sometimes even add another mini mattress on top of the already enormously thick mattresses now--basically a built-in mattress topper. My sister has one like that. If the topper is more comfortable than the mattress, it also raises the question of why don't they just make the mattress out of the topper material? They could make it thick enough that there wouldn't be an issue with sinking to the springs. In spite of having the topper, the mattress below it is still hugely thick. I think it may be a way of creating mattress envy--"The neighbor's mattress is thicker than mine and has a topper thing too, while mine is thinner and simpler...how humiliating!"

Quote
we'd all be back to tatami mats and bed rolls.
That would be cool, and a way for them to sell still more bedding and then start the whole cycle over again. :) As you may know, when tatami mats were first developed they were luxury beds. Most folks slept on some straw thrown on the dirt floor at the time.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Alan

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1337 on: June 01, 2011, 01:33:51 pm »
No one admires you more than I do, Lex, and a large part of the reason is because you stick with a program that works for you rather than follow new fads.

Having said that, I wonder if you still follow the action in other paleo-centric boards.  Three in particular, which seem highly devoted to following the evidence-trail  no matter what the cost in shattered  comfortable-armchairs-in-fashionable-echo-chambers, are:

    donmatesz.blogspot.com
    wholehealthsource.blogspot.com
    carbsanity.blogspot.com

At these three, there are recent iconoclastic discussions.

« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 03:49:54 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1338 on: June 02, 2011, 01:33:35 am »
Hi Alan,
No, I seldom follow blogs or spend much time on line at all.  I'm far to busy doing the things I love to do.  I do check my journal every couple of days so respond to comments, and I do follow up on articles and blog postings that others point out to me, but I spend no time at all reading blogs or searching for information.  Life is way to short to waste it staring at a computer.  I'd rather be in my shop building things, teaching clock repair classes, giving presentations to youth groups, having dinner with friends or a whole host of other activities.

For me, the point of eating well is to maintain the best health I can, for as long as I can, so that I can continue to do the things I want to do.  I'm at peace with myself and the dietary choices I've made, so have no reason to spend time searching for other alternatives.  There is no perfect lifestyle or diet, and to spend time searching for a some dietary Holy Grail is a waste of precious time, that once gone, can never be retrieved.

I am now 60 years old.  If all goes well, I may make it into my 80's as no male member of my family has lived past 85, (my dad died at 79 and the autopsy showed no clear cause of death - he just died).  Rather than spend my time trying to see if I can extend my life an additional few years, I prefer to live the life I have to the fullest right now.  In any case, regardless of how long I live, the first 10 years of the rest of my life (60 - 70) will be a whole lot better than then following 10 years (70-80), and I refuse to waste them trying to live a few scant years longer as each succeeding year will be of ever lower quality.  For me it is quality over quantity.  If I die tomorrow it is OK with me because I'm physically able to do everything I want to do today.  Regardless of what we eat or the lifestyle we live, our lives are limited and I want to make the most of what little time I have left.  

I did look at the blogs you listed and they seem about the norm of what's going on in the field.  All are expressing opinions, often stated as fact, about things they know little or nothing about.  What isn't opinion is useless speculation on the meaning of things no one (including the researchers) really understands.  I have no better knowledge or insight than these well meaning bloggers so my comments or participation would add no value, and spending time reading these opinions and speculations doesn't add to my quality of life.

Hope this helps,

Lex
« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 01:56:29 am by lex_rooker »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1339 on: June 23, 2011, 05:02:16 am »
Hi Lex,

Someone who developed a high PSA on a cooked Paleo-type diet (with some modern foods) relatively high in meats (it was the only negative symptom--all his other results were positive) asked me for suggestions. High PSA is about the only thing that didn't resolve for you, as I understand it. Don Matesz said that a low-fat, plant-rich diet lowers PSA and I did read that somewhere else before. What are your thoughts on this?

Also, I'll understand if you don't want to get into the theoretical, yet given the relatively rare perspective you have from eating nearly the same thing every day, as I understand it, your input would be interesting on Art De Vany's views on randomly varying intakes of types of foods and quantities (such as via intermittent fasting) to take advantage of hypothetical advantages from employing power laws and living in tune with the fractal character of nature (including that of human bodies). Are you familiar with it and do you have any thoughts on it?  
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1340 on: June 25, 2011, 12:31:14 am »
Someone who developed a high PSA on a cooked Paleo-type diet (with some modern foods) relatively high in meats (it was the only negative symptom--all his other results were positive) asked me for suggestions. High PSA is about the only thing that didn't resolve for you, as I understand it. Don Matesz said that a low-fat, plant-rich diet lowers PSA and I did read that somewhere else before. What are your thoughts on this?

Wish I had a solution.  Unfortunately my BPH symptoms haven’t gone away, even when eating totally raw so I doubt that cooking would have any effect one way or the other.  I can say that the progression has slowed way down, and that’s a good thing. But it hasn’t gone away.  My guess is that prostate growth is a normal thing. Possibly eating inappropriate foods will speed the process and that is why modern males seem to start having problems earlier in life. Eating a more natural diet may slow the process such that if we’d eaten properly all our lives, few of us would live long enough to experience a problem.  If this idea is anywhere near the truth, then once you are experiencing a problem, just changing diet will not cure or stop it, but just slow it down significantly.  This is what my experience has been.
Same goes for baldness, cancer, and several other issues.  Once these things have occurred their progression might be slowed but they seldom can be totally reversed by diet alone.

Also, I'll understand if you don't want to get into the theoretical, yet given the relatively rare perspective you have from eating nearly the same thing every day, as I understand it, your input would be interesting on Art De Vany's views on randomly varying intakes of types of foods and quantities (such as via intermittent fasting) to take advantage of hypothetical advantages from employing power laws and living in tune with the fractal character of nature (including that of human bodies). Are you familiar with it and do you have any thoughts on it? 

I have seen no evidence, either in my own experience or in peer reviewed studies, that there is any significant advantage to this.  I think it is clear that the body will become accustomed to and adapt to whatever becomes habitual, however, I’m not sure that there is any evidence that this is a problem.  I know Art and many years ago spent time at the gym with him.  His premise of randomizing his workouts is probably a good one if continued progress in body building is the goal.  Once the body becomes accustomed to a specific set of exercises in a specific order, it will adapt to the point where it can perform these exercises efficiently and then “progress”, (from the body builders standpoint), will slow.  Also, Lyle McDonald has done a lot of work in the area of ketogenic diets for body builders.  He found that cycling in and out of ketosis, more or less simulating the chaotic natural environment of intermittent food availability without sacrificing caloric intake, worked better at promoting muscle growth in body builders than did a consistent normal diet or consistent ketogenic diet. 

What is seldom discussed is the fact that body building for the sake of muscle growth is unnatural and therefore the body must be tricked into making it happen.   I’ve seen nothing showing any significant advantage to the chaotic approach in diet or exercise for the average person that is not interested in promoting excess muscle growth.  The body is designed to adapt to a person’s normal environment with some spare reserve for fight or flight in case of danger.  It takes much continued and constant effort to exceed this, and once the effort is stopped, the body quickly reverts back to a more normal state.

Just my two cents, others my see it differently,

Lex

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1341 on: June 25, 2011, 05:14:23 am »
Thanks Lex. BTW, do you have any Native American ancestry that you're aware of, and if you don't mind my asking, what is your basic ancestry?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1342 on: June 25, 2011, 09:23:07 am »
Thanks Lex. BTW, do you have any Native American ancestry that you're aware of, and if you don't mind my asking, what is your basic ancestry?

No Native American that I'm aware of.  I think my family hails mostly from Europe with the most direct links being Welsh and Scottish.  My maternal grandmother was a Hughes (of the Howard Hughes lineage) and her mother was a Melton.  My aunt on my fathers side has some ancestry information going back to 1603 but I've never seen it.  I think she once told me that there's an Italian in the mix somewhere but it's all rather sketchy.

Lex


Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1343 on: June 27, 2011, 06:18:50 am »
Interesting coincidence--according to one Web source the name Hughes is an Irish name that originated in county Roscommon and most of my Irish ancestors were from Cavan county, not far from Roscommon http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/geography/counties.html and like you I fare well on a diet that's low in carbs and high in animal foods. It could be nothing more than coincidence, of course.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Max

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1344 on: July 05, 2011, 12:21:02 pm »
Hey Lex,

First off you are an inspiration to us all!  I am hoping I will heal myself the way you have on the RPD. I've been eating raw for a few months really solid. I've seen many benefits. But I always intended to try RZC.  I started RZC two days ago.  I feel OK. Energy down a little.  I think organs will be important on RZC but I find them mostly unpalatable.  I ate 1/3 pound of raw beef kidney yesterday and I couldn't stomach more than a few bites today.  I put in an order to slankers of mostly pet food to get the nutrients from organs in a hopefully more acceptable form (taste wise).

I was wondering are you still eating the slankers pet food?

If so what is your current mix? And how much do you eat?

How long did it take you to like the taste?

Thanks,
-Max
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 12:29:29 pm by Max »
"The strong white teeth sank into the raw and dripping flesh in apparent relish of the meal, but Clayton could not bring himself to share the uncooked meat with his strange host; instead he watched him, and presently there dawned upon him the conviction that this was Tarzan of the Apes....." - Edgar Rice Burroughs, 'Tarzan of the Apes'

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1345 on: July 18, 2011, 09:52:21 am »
First off you are an inspiration to us all!  I am hoping I will heal myself the way you have on the RPD. I've been eating raw for a few months really solid. I've seen many benefits. But I always intended to try RZC.  I started RZC two days ago.  I feel OK. Energy down a little.

I’m always amused when someone does something for a few days and then says their energy is down or up or whatever.  My energy follows my mood.  If I’m bored my energy is down, if I’m excited, my energy is up.  Energy is almost always due to my mental state and has little or nothing to do with what I just ate – unless I hated the food and then we're back to a mental condition.

 
I think organs will be important on RZC but I find them mostly unpalatable.  I ate 1/3 pound of raw beef kidney yesterday and I couldn't stomach more than a few bites today. 

I don’t care much for organ meats plain either.  I expect that if that was all there was to eat I’d soon learn to love them, but I’m spoiled and choose to camouflage my organ meats behind some plain ground muscle meat.  I still get some flavor of the organ meats but I’m never faced with a lump of something that makes me want to gag.

I put in an order to slankers of mostly pet food to get the nutrients from organs in a hopefully more acceptable form (taste wise).

In the beginning I tried eating slankers pet food plain but that was too much for me to handle so I started mixing it with muscle meat.  First I mixed 6 to 1, then 4 to 1 and now somewhere between 2 and 3 to 1.  I now find plain ground meat has no flavor and is very boring so I’ve come to enjoy the flavor of the organ meats, but I still prefer them well diluted.

I was wondering are you still eating the slankers pet food?

Yes, I still eat slanker pet food but they now have a “Primal Ground Meat” mix that has some organ meats added and it has been properly inspected and sold for human consumption.  I may give this a try and see how I like it on my next order. 

If so what is your current mix? And how much do you eat?

I use a 2 or 3 to 1 mix as explained above(the larger number being plain ground meat), but I also add enough fat (either fresh or rendered) to bring the fat content up to about 70% of calories from fat.  I eat between 1 ½ and 2 lbs a day on most days.  Some days a little less, and if I’m working hard maybe half again more.  Remember, I’m 60 and my energy needs are small in comparison to someone, say in their 20s or 30s.  Someone who is very active and in their 20s may need double what I eat.  I remember reading the Journals of the Lewis and Clark expedition.  It was a real revelation to find that the crew members that were rowing the boat upstream often ate 9 lbs of fresh meat per day.

How long did it take you to like the taste?

On some things I still don’t like the taste or the consistency, and I imagine that has a lot to do with how I was brought up.  It took a couple of years before I actually preferred the taste of my organ mix to plain ground meat.  I still don’t like the pet food plain.  I much prefer it diluted with some muscle meat.
I do what I have to do to be able to stick to this way of eating.  If I were forced to eat raw kidneys, liver, spleen or tripe by themselves, I’d be eating Big Macs today as I just wouldn’t have been able to stick with it.  Nothing is more difficult than going well out of your way to eat something you intensely dislike every day when there is such wonderful and tasty junk food more easily available.

There is no perfect diet, or if there is, no one knows what it is. There is also no magic in Zero Carb. I'm not even convinced that light cooking is all that bad.  I choose to eat raw on principal rather than on any hard evidence that all cooking is bad.  No other animal cooks its food so I decided there was no reason that the human animal needed to cook its food.  People eat cooked food all the time and live well into their 90s - often in relatively good health.  I'm more convinced that there are foods we should avoid that we never evolved to eat and this is more important to me than the cooking vs raw debate, or the full zero carb debate.  To me it is much better to eat lightly cooked meat rather than raw grains.

I do believe that there are better choices when it comes to our health than today’s SAD or especially junk food.  If you eat mostly red meat and fat, even if it is lightly cooked, and maybe a small green salad and/or a small serving of fruit each day, and cut out the beans, grains, dairy, and refined carbs you’d probably get 95% of the benefit of what I’m doing and maybe even 100%.  One thing’s for sure, you’d be way ahead of the folks eating Big Macs, Fries, and guzzling soft drinks by the gallon.

What I'm trying to say is that you don't have to be a zealot when it comes to your diet.  You'll benefit much if you just stop eating manufactured foods and foods that humans are not designed to eat at all.  Unless you are suffering from some major disease, I doubt that lightly cooking the good foods you do eat would be much of a problem.  You'll also find it much easier to get along socially which can be very important if you are young.

What I did when I first went paleo (the lightly cooked version) 7 or 8 years ago, I just told people that I was diabetic and allergic to grains and dairy and so my diet was pretty much limited to meat, green vegetables, and some fruit.  Rather than get funny looks, everyone sympathized and went out of their way to accomodate my unfortunate health conditions.

Had I told them that grains and dairy were evil and that I must eat only raw meat, the respone would be that I'm a total nut case (which is probably true, but I'm a nice nut).  Yes, I did choose raw ZC but then I did that because I had severe health conditions that drove me to give this a try.  To be honest, I have no idea if raw ZC has had any significant benefit over what I would have gotten had I just stuck to my orginial lightly cooked paleo version.  I do know that I got some improvement, but it was very minor and it might have been just time that did the trick and not the conversion to Raw ZC.  I only stick with it because it has been fairly successful for me and now I find it simple and convenient. Also, at my age I don't have to fit in socially, though when on the rare occasions I must eat at someone else's house, I eat small amounts of whatever they serve (even if it is pasta) and never complain or lecture them.

Hope this helps, and sorry I didn't answer sooner.  I've been so busy with other things in my life that I just forgot to check my journal.  For me diet is about feeling good enough to do the things I want to do, not obsessing over things that probably don't matter anyway.

Lex
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 02:02:52 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1346 on: July 18, 2011, 10:34:13 am »
... There is no perfect diet, or if there is, no one knows what it is. There is also no magic in Zero Carb. I'm not even convinced that light cooking is all that bad.  I choose to eat raw on principal rather than on any hard evidence that all cooking is bad.  No other animal cooks its food so I decided there was no reason that the human animal needed to cook its food.  People eat cooked food all the time and live well into their 90s - often in relatively good health.  I'm more convinced that there are foods we should avoid that we never evovled to eat and this is more important to me than the cooking vs raw debate, or the full zero carb debate.  To me it is much better to eat lightly cooked meat rather than raw grains. ...
I agree. Not everyone here is a 100% raw purist, despite what our critics sometimes claim, and when critics ask why this should be called a raw forum if less than 100% raw is considered OK, my response would be that no other Paleo-type forum that I'm aware of covers raw foods, particularly raw animal foods, in any depth, so there's really no other forum to go to for that information. Plus there are incredibly valuable contributors here like Lex. Lex's journal alone is reason enough to spend time here and it is what initially drew me here, not 100% raw purism and one doesn't need to become a 100% raw purist to benefit from raw foods and a raw food forum. The notion that one must divide everything into discrete absolute binary categories of 100% this vs. 100% that never appealed to me.

Conventional Paleo forums like http://www.cavemanforum.com/ tend to focus heavily on cooked foods, including modern cooking techniques (such as frying bacon to a crisp and frying foods in butter, lard, tallow and oils and claiming that it's healthy), and tend to treat discussion of raw animal foods with some derision, though GoodSamaritan shares rawist info there and puts up a fight when challenged or attacked. I'm not into fighting the coctivores myself. I find it a generally futile exercise. People generally believe what they want to believe and seek confirmation for eating their favorite yummy foods. If they can find a single study or guru saying that crispy bacon is OK, that seems to be enough and they don't seem to care if it's not really Paleo or traditional, nor do they seem to care how many studies show contrary results or how many people here report poor results from heavily cooked foods or how much scientific explanation there is about potential damage to the metabolism or other biological systems.

There are the exceptions, of course, so people who tried cooked Paleo gradually filter in here and even some of the "experts" in the Paleo/ancestral field are moving in the direction of acknowledging the benefits of low-cooked and raw foods, such as Stephan Guyenet, PhD, Dr. William Davis, and Dr. Michael Eades with his low-slow Sous Vide cooker. When Stephan discussed his increasing interest in low-slow-cooked and raw foods on The Healthy Skeptic show, one of the hosts even joked that "Aajonus [Vonderplanitz] was right all along." When the responses to eating most or all animal foods raw start to change from ridicule and even anger to lighthearted joking and partial acknowledgement, you know the atmosphere is changing.

Curiously, there seems to be something of a double standard. No one seems to ask why a conventional cooked Paleo forum like http://www.cavemanforum.com should be considered Paleo when it accepts less than 100% adherence to Paleo within its tent. Even all the raw vegan forums I've seen accept what they call "high raw" within their approaches and the definition of "high raw" varies from as little as 70% of foods consumed raw. Fundamentally, people go where they are made welcome and where they get something out of the experience.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 10:49:47 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1347 on: July 18, 2011, 12:12:34 pm »
Well said Phil

Lex

Offline Max

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1348 on: July 19, 2011, 02:02:15 am »
Thank you Lex,

Thank you for your well thought out, comprehensive answers to my questions.  And thank you PaleoPhil as well, for your interesting observations about what it means to be paleo.

It is a difficult WOE to stick to for me socially and taste wise, but I feel I want to give this diet a chance, and myself a chance to heal.  I have come very far already and feel that I need to take this WOE all the way.  For me that means trying 100% Raw ZC, with organs, for a time and seeing how my body feels.  I read a good quote, "No discipline solves no problems.  Some discipline solves some problems.  Total discipline solves all problems."  I have lived, for most of my life, in a quite undisciplined manner.  That way of living has gotten me nowhere.  I dropped out of school, was in great debt and also managed to injure myself and end up in chronic pain.  Step by painstaking step, I am getting better.  Raw Paleo is key for my health and key for developing the discipline that I need to not only get my life back on track, but to also thrive and succeed.

It is a difficult daily struggle for me.  Eating raw foods.  Doing rehab exercises for my injury.  Some days getting out of bed is a struggle.  I don't know any secret to make any of this easier, all I can do is try my hardest.

-Max
"The strong white teeth sank into the raw and dripping flesh in apparent relish of the meal, but Clayton could not bring himself to share the uncooked meat with his strange host; instead he watched him, and presently there dawned upon him the conviction that this was Tarzan of the Apes....." - Edgar Rice Burroughs, 'Tarzan of the Apes'

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1349 on: July 19, 2011, 02:30:57 am »
I want to add a note of caution. Most RPDers find that they (usually, not always) recover from some or most of their symptoms within several months, but it usually takes c. 2-3 years for serious conditions to become completely cured in all respects. So don't expect instant miracles. Plus, most RVAFers find that they need to make substantial changes to their diet in order to become truly healthy, such as removing all raw dairy/raw veggie juice from their diet, or going RZC or raw omnivore, or some other rarer method such as never eating ground meats, however raw etc.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

 

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