Author Topic: Lex's Journal  (Read 607876 times)

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Offline Michael

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #800 on: November 24, 2009, 07:20:09 am »
Lex, another article you may find interesting and relevant regarding your kidney stones can be found here:
http://www.greenpasture.org/community/?q=node/135

An extract of which includes:
Quote
It may be, then, that an extreme imbalance between vitamins A and D leads to the synthesis of abnormally high amounts of MGP. If there is enough vitamin K to activate all of the MGP, it will help protect the soft tissues from calcification. If, instead, the vitamin K cannot keep up with the level of MGP being produced and the pool of vitamin K becomes depleted, soft tissue calcification ensues.

I just came across this browsing the Green Pastures website and thought of you.
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline van

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #801 on: November 24, 2009, 08:02:37 am »
He talks about eating a piece of protein the size of your palm.  I usually eat twice a day the amount that fills an eight oz cup, plus fat, and several tablespoons of ground bone.   Ron's book is available.  but you have to get past all the supplements he reccomends. 

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #802 on: November 24, 2009, 09:01:27 am »
Lex, another article you may find interesting and relevant regarding your kidney stones can be found here:
http://www.greenpasture.org/community/?q=node/135

An extract of which includes:
I just came across this browsing the Green Pastures website and thought of you.

Interesting article, but since I don't take supplements, not sure what to do with the information.  I've been trying to get about 1 hour's sun exposure per day to raise vitamin D levels.  I eat grass-fed meats which should have good vitamin A levels.  I'm clueless on vitamin K so will have to look into that a bit more.

MGP and the rest of the alphabet soup mentioned in the article is pretty meaningless to me as well.  Without significant lab support and researchers that know what they are doing, I see little meaningful action that I could take.

Lex

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #803 on: November 24, 2009, 09:54:39 am »


Do you have any recommended links to other works by Rosedale?

http://www.drrosedale.com/

Offline ys

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #804 on: November 24, 2009, 11:09:30 am »
Here is very detailed information about K2 as well as food sources.
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition/vitamin-k2.html  from good old weston price

It does talk about how K2 reverses calcification.  But only in arteries.  I do not remember if it applies to kidneys.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #805 on: November 24, 2009, 11:56:02 am »
I'm still not convinced we should be drinking these vast quantities of water.  I've been trying to up my intake but it doesn't feel right if I'm really having to force myself to do it! 
It's been difficult for me to increase it much further than I was already doing too. Anything over 2.5 liters seems to result in an overload on my bladder, though if I spaced it out more evenly over the day it might not--but that's difficult to manage on workdays.

Quote
I'm still currently using salt, gs, on my vlc regime. 
Interestingly, an Inuit study population had the lowest levels of chlorides ever measured, the lowest dietary intakes of sodium chloride ever measured, and the highest sensitivity to tasting salt ever measured among any population. The scientists couldn't find any negative effects from the low chloride levels in their bodily fluids or the extremely low dietary intakes of salt. They had unusually high magnesium levels.

Quote
I seem to recall reading that much of the sweating was done in their igloos with the internal temperatures becoming sufficiently hot.  Likewise, I'm really struggling to up my intake and am still only managing to drink 1-1.5 ltrs per day.
Interesting. I wonder if they did a sweat-lodge sort of thing and if that enabled them to drink more water and thus keep their uric and oxalic acid levels low despite heavy consumption of meat? I should probably do more reading on the Inuit--not for re-enactment, but because they followed a near-ZC/carnivore WOE for much longer than I have, and thus I might learn some more from their experience.

Quote
Lex, I'm sure you've already considered this but perhaps the development of your stones took place during previous inappropriate diets and are only being shifted now by the body as it's given the nutrients and conditions to repair itself?  The water factor could be a total red herring?!  I think the above discussion (particularly when read in context of the whole article) gives a clue to what the root cause of the stone development may have been initially.

Possible, and I am open-minded as usual, but then there's also Yuri's experience with uric acid stones on ZC and the deepening color and increased bubbling of my urine since going carnivore. On the other hand, I did find a report that the urine of the Inuits in one study was apparently notably yellow in color--apparently more so than avg. So I'm also not convinced that clear urine is a necessary sign of good health, as I've seen some vegans claim, and a somewhat deeper-than-avg color is probably OK. But I try to be a bit more careful than the avg person, given my history of chronic UTI's and kidney stones. I don't want to experience the pain of stones again if I can avoid it.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #806 on: November 24, 2009, 05:51:23 pm »
Hi Lex,

How about variety in your diet?  I remember that you are on a pure grass fed raw beef diet.

How about adding variety?  Other raw animals?

I just believe in the need for variety at times.
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Offline Michael

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #807 on: November 24, 2009, 07:26:38 pm »
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline Michael

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #808 on: November 24, 2009, 07:34:24 pm »
Interesting article, but since I don't take supplements, not sure what to do with the information.  I've been trying to get about 1 hour's sun exposure per day to raise vitamin D levels.  I eat grass-fed meats which should have good vitamin A levels.  I'm clueless on vitamin K so will have to look into that a bit more.

MGP and the rest of the alphabet soup mentioned in the article is pretty meaningless to me as well.  Without significant lab support and researchers that know what they are doing, I see little meaningful action that I could take.

Lex

I suppose I meant it as a point of information for you Lex to, perhaps, help further realise that deficiencies and/or inbalances in A,D,K may have been a factor in the development of your stones at some point pre- or post- paleo.  In addition, this could act to remind you to bolster your efforts in ensuring you're obtaining these elements in whatever natural form you choose (organs, sun exposure, etc).  I think Phil has linked to some useful Vit K information elsewhere.  The WAPF nourished magazine also has some detailed information on this along with natural food sources.  I certainly wouldn't advocate supplements beyond Blue Ice FCLO or drowning in the world of alphabet soup.  Like any information, take from it what is useful to you.

Good luck on your journey Lex!
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #809 on: November 25, 2009, 03:28:40 am »
I just got the results of my recent 25(OH)D3 test.

VITAMIN D, 1,25(OH)2, TOTAL     64 pg/mL      Reference Range:  18-72


According to a couple of entries in PubMed, the mean average for 1,25(OH)2 is 41.2 +/-12.1.  Looks like I'm at the upper end of the range which is probably a good thing.

Lex
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 03:44:54 am by lex_rooker »

Offline van

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #810 on: November 25, 2009, 04:41:22 am »
  I forget Lex,  do you supplement with D3, besides your new sun tan regime?

Offline sam

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #811 on: November 25, 2009, 08:12:58 am »
Lex, I think your doctor ordered the wrong test. It looks like it was a 1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin D test instead of the 25(OH)D test.

See http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health/deficiency/am-i-vitamin-d-deficient.shtml for more information on the different tests.

Your units should be ng/ml, not pg/ml.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #812 on: November 25, 2009, 08:35:58 am »
  I forget Lex,  do you supplement with D3, besides your new sun tan regime?

No just 1 hour of sunlight exposure an average of 5 days per week.

Lex

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #813 on: November 25, 2009, 08:45:47 am »
Lex, I think your doctor ordered the wrong test. It looks like it was a 1,25-dihydroxy-vitamin D test instead of the 25(OH)D test.

See http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/health/deficiency/am-i-vitamin-d-deficient.shtml for more information on the different tests.

Your units should be ng/ml, not pg/ml.

The results I got back were for 1,25 (OH)2 TOTAL.  The test was ordered from a pulldown menu on the medical group's computer system.  I watched as he selected the 25(OH)D test and there was only one shown on the list.  I'm scheduled to go back for a recheck on the kidney stone in a couple of weeks.  Will investigate futher.

Lex

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #814 on: November 25, 2009, 09:00:00 am »
I just got the results of my recent 25(OH)D3 test.

VITAMIN D, 1,25(OH)2, TOTAL     64 pg/mL      Reference Range:  18-72


According to a couple of entries in PubMed, the mean average for 1,25(OH)2 is 41.2 +/-12.1.  Looks like I'm at the upper end of the range which is probably a good thing.

Lex
Ooooo, very nice! Congrats.

FYI: Wikipedia says ng/mL too... "Serum levels of calcidiol (25-hydroxy-vitamin D) are typically used to diagnose vitamin D overdose. In healthy individuals, calcidiol levels are normally between 32 to 70 ng/mL (80 to 175 nmol/L)...."
« Last Edit: November 25, 2009, 09:06:39 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Dextery

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #815 on: November 25, 2009, 09:37:25 am »
www.grassrootshealth.net has a $40 blood spot mail in test.  To get the $40 test, have to sign up to have 8 done over 4 years...every six months.  If your copay is close to the $40...might be worth it.  Mail in the spot of blood and get the results online.  And it is the D3 test...the correct one.

Offline Michael

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #816 on: November 25, 2009, 08:23:06 pm »
I just got the results of my recent 25(OH)D3 test.
VITAMIN D, 1,25(OH)2, TOTAL     64 pg/mL      Reference Range:  18-72
According to a couple of entries in PubMed, the mean average for 1,25(OH)2 is 41.2 +/-12.1.  Looks like I'm at the upper end of the range which is probably a good thing.
Lex

Seemingly further superb results Lex!  Well done.  We're all extremely lucky to have you here providing this critical information.  I, for one, am most grateful.  Thanks.  Do you have any other tests in the pipeline?
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #817 on: November 26, 2009, 01:25:48 am »
www.grassrootshealth.net has a $40 blood spot mail in test.  To get the $40 test, have to sign up to have 8 done over 4 years...every six months.  If your copay is close to the $40...might be worth it.  Mail in the spot of blood and get the results online.  And it is the D3 test...the correct one.

I'd gladly pay to have the tests done but unfortuantely it is illegal in California for any lab to perform a test for an individual without a medical doctor's prescription.  Most doctors here will not write such a prescription as they and their clinic won't profiit from it.  I've looked into several of the out of state labs and all require authorization from my doctor to perform the test.

Lex

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #818 on: November 26, 2009, 05:00:25 am »
I'd gladly pay to have the tests done but unfortuantely it is illegal in California for any lab to perform a test for an individual without a medical doctor's prescription.  Most doctors here will not write such a prescription as they and their clinic won't profiit from it.  I've looked into several of the out of state labs and all require authorization from my doctor to perform the test.

Lex

That piece of news about California is just so Orwellian. How about giving your blood samples to other countries labs?  Mexico is near.

In my country labs don't care as long as you are paying. And independent labs are cheaper than hospital labs by 50%.
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Offline raw

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #819 on: November 26, 2009, 07:23:43 am »
lex, you are my motivation. i'm convincing my mom into paleo diet and your journal is my tool. you are my nutrition guru. 
bugs or country chickens

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #820 on: November 26, 2009, 01:30:28 pm »
lex, you are my motivation. i'm convincing my mom into paleo diet and your journal is my tool. you are my nutrition guru. 

Raw,
Please don't look at me as a guru as that is the last thing I want to be. Gurus have all the answers, but if you've read this journal it creates far more questions than answers.  The best I can hope to do is provide inspiration and give an accurate account of both the good and the bad issues I've faced during this dietary adventure.  My goal is to give people the best information possible so that they can make their own decisions and not need a guru.

The best advice I can give is don't blindly accept what someone says (guru or not).  Learn everything you can, make your own tests when possible, and come to your own conclusions.

Lex

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #821 on: November 26, 2009, 01:54:06 pm »
Something that I've been meaning to post about for a while is the positive effect that the daily sun exposure seems to have had on my dental health.

For many years I've had to go to the dentist 3 or 4 times per year to remove the heavy tartar and calculus build up - especially on the back of my lower front teeth. It was like cement and built up very quickly. Over the last few months the build up has dropped virtually to zero.  Where I used to be able to use a dental tool and pull chunks of calcified tartar off the backs of my lower teeth every few days, I now have almost none at all. (Maybe it all went to my kidneys.  ??? ) It is true that I increased dietary fat over the past few months as well, but I don't think that accounts for the reductions in calculus build up as I did the high fat thing for many months in the recent past and it had no effect on the build up of tartar on my teeth.  The only new change is the added sun exposure.

I have no idea if this could be an effect of increased vitamin D levels, but it is a very noticable (and welcome) change and the only thing I've done differently in in the last 3 months (that I haven't done before) is work on my tan for an hour every day.

Lex

Offline Michael

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #822 on: November 27, 2009, 01:57:48 am »
I'd gladly pay to have the tests done but unfortuantely it is illegal in California for any lab to perform a test for an individual without a medical doctor's prescription.  Most doctors here will not write such a prescription as they and their clinic won't profiit from it.  I've looked into several of the out of state labs and all require authorization from my doctor to perform the test.

Lex

My God?!  That's amazing!  Whatever happened to the 'Land of the Free'?!  How can they possibly justify that in respect of human rights law?

Over the last few months the build up has dropped virtually to zero...I have no idea if this could be an effect of increased vitamin D levels, but it is a very noticable (and welcome) change and the only thing I've done differently in in the last 3 months (that I haven't done before) is work on my tan for an hour every day.

Lex

Potentially another trailblazing discovery, Lex, which could prove pivotal in discovering more about the cause of calculus, the systems involved in it's development and the tools for avoidance.  This just highlights further how important it is to introduce and remove foods/practices singularly and slowly for the determination of causality as you always take great care in doing.  I do believe that your adherence to this approach and your testing & documenting of everything is proving highly valuable in the present and will prove even more critical in the longer term.

What are your own reflections on this latest development?
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #823 on: November 27, 2009, 02:38:18 am »
My God?!  That's amazing!  Whatever happened to the 'Land of the Free'?!  How can they possibly justify that in respect of human rights law?

Just wait until the Federal Government takes over health care here in the US.  There is a good chance that they will make any and all private lab work illegal just as it is in some other countries where there is socialized medicine.

Potentially another trailblazing discovery, Lex, which could prove pivotal in discovering more about the cause of calculus, the systems involved in it's development and the tools for avoidance.

What are your own reflections on this latest development?

I wish I had something useful to add but I don't.  The best I can offer is the observation that calculus has been significanly reduced, along with the speculation that it must have something to do with the sun exposure as that is the only change I've made.  I can draw a further conclusion that if it is the sun exposure then it must be related to vitamin D in some way as that is the only thing that would be affected by the sun.  Other than that I'm cluleless.

Lex

Offline Michael

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #824 on: November 27, 2009, 04:32:02 am »
Just wait until the Federal Government takes over health care here in the US.  There is a good chance that they will make any and all private lab work illegal just as it is in some other countries where there is socialized medicine.

I don't really follow US politics closely.  Is that on the agenda?!  Is the existing privatised system being replaced?  That's big news if so which I somehow missed?!  :o  As I'm sure you know, we have a National Health Service here in the UK which was setup by the socialist labour government in the post-WW2 welfare-state reforms.  It's not without it's major flaws but, in theory at least, provides free medical care to all.  As far as I'm aware, private lab work is not illegal here in the UK as a consequence of this.  Have the US proposed such a development as part of their healthcare reforms?

I wish I had something useful to add but I don't.  The best I can offer is the observation that calculus has been significanly reduced, along with the speculation that it must have something to do with the sun exposure as that is the only change I've made.  I can draw a further conclusion that if it is the sun exposure then it must be related to vitamin D in some way as that is the only thing that would be affected by the sun.  Other than that I'm cluleless.

I hope I'm not doing a Paleo Phil number on you here Lex  ;) but I'm just interested in how these various component factors fit together.  I've just googled Calculus.  One study abstract from the Journal of Dental Research shows:
Quote
The crystalline components of human dental calculus were investigated using microbeam x-ray diffraction analysis. Hydroxyapatite and octacalcium phosphate were most frequently found in that portion having porous and zonal structure. In the portion of the homogeneous illustration showing high calcification, whitlockite is a main component. Brushite was unexpectedly rare, and no calcite was detected in any portion of human dental calculus. The mechanism of the formation of dental calculus being considered in this paper is that octacalcium phosphate or brushite is formed during the initial stage of calcification of dental plaque, and is gradually hydrolyzed and transformed into hydroxyapatite and/or whitlockite.

I wonder if there is a link between i) the calcium build-up on your teeth  ii) the kidney stones (calcium deposits?)  iii) night cramps (Ca/Mg deficiency or inbalance) ?

It seems to me that there may have been a historical root problem related to Vitamin D deficiency as this is involved in the metabolism of these minerals.  Your observations following your sun exposure would strengthen this hypothesis I believe.
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

 

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