Author Topic: Lex's Journal  (Read 603024 times)

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #900 on: December 29, 2009, 01:07:01 pm »
What is interesting is that your criticisms of me are based on other peoples ideas and theories which you’ve chosen to accept as true. 


They are?  I thought I'd been experimenting with raw diets for a little over 9 years now.  Pardon me. LOL

I admit, I do use multiple anecdotal data from people's personal stories from forum interactions.  I've been doing that for years.  What I also do is yell, scream, and holler when my experiences differ from the group consensus.  Hence, my skewering of vegans, particularly fruitarians.  Lex, I've got to say, I think I'm a little quicker to find the truth than you, at least as far as diet goes.  To be fair, I don't think I'm as quick as Geoff, but I'm not too terribly far behind, I hope.  I'm fine with the fact that you are slogging through ZC, though.  The data you are providing is very valuable, and I wish like all get out that the cooked ZCers would do mostly-to-all-raw like you and then post their blood work and stories, too.  I'm very far from convinced that ZC is for everyone, but I do think that, short-term (weeks or months or maybe even years) it can be a true lifesaver for some people, particularly those who have overdone the carbs for years. I think for some people , particularly some who tend to diabetes, that it can/should be a permanent dietary choice.  Having said that, I think some people simply need more carbs to be at their best (and by carbs, I mean fruit, mainly).  Certainly not everyone.

I am definitely interested to see how your kidney and other stone situation pans out, long-term.  That is very useful data, and I read every word.   

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #901 on: December 30, 2009, 02:23:08 am »
They are?  I thought I'd been experimenting with raw diets for a little over 9 years now.  Pardon me. LOL

I've been experimenting with diets both raw and cooked in an attempt to solve my health issues for about 40 years and counting. I have years of data that I've collected showing how what I eat affects BG, Ketones, urine PH and Specfic Gravity, weight, body fat, and other parameters that I can measure.  I still don't feel I understand much, but I'm pleased with what progress I've made and enjoy the challenge. That you've been able to figure everything out in such a short time shows that you are way ahead of me.  Maybe we could compare the data you've collected with mine to good advantage.

Lex

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #902 on: December 31, 2009, 10:27:27 am »
I've been experimenting with diets both raw and cooked in an attempt to solve my health issues for about 40 years and counting. I have years of data that I've collected showing how what I eat affects BG, Ketones, urine PH and Specfic Gravity, weight, body fat, and other parameters that I can measure.  I still don't feel I understand much, but I'm pleased with what progress I've made and enjoy the challenge. That you've been able to figure everything out in such a short time shows that you are way ahead of me.  Maybe we could compare the data you've collected with mine to good advantage.

Lex

My path isn't that interesting, relative to yours.  You really are doing something fairly unique.  You could replace my story with Geoff's or Edwin's, pretty much, they're all fairly interchangeable.  We all eat very nearly 100% raw, we all eat raw meat, raw fish, and raw fruit.  When a topic that I have specific and/or unusual experience with pops up in discussion, I often bring up my specific knowledge then.  Otherwise, I leave the floor open for someone doing treading the path less taken, like you are. That's my basic method right now, anyway. :)

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #903 on: January 01, 2010, 01:34:35 am »
My path isn't that interesting, relative to yours.  You really are doing something fairly unique. 

All of us have chosen our path through life and have our own story to tell.  All are interesting and appear unique to other people.  It is our over familiarity with our own path that makes it seem dull and uninteresting to us.

You could replace my story with Geoff's or Edwin's, pretty much, they're all fairly interchangeable.  We all eat very nearly 100% raw, we all eat raw meat, raw fish, and raw fruit. 

There is very little new and all stories are similar including mine.  It is the minutia and detail that we reveal in telling our stories that make them interesting.  If I were to recount my story as you have yours above, leaving out the little details, mine would be even less compelling than yours.  Your story is “We all eat very nearly 100% raw, we all eat raw meat, raw fish, and raw fruit.”   Mine would be “I eat 100% raw meat”.  Certainly not a page turner.

When a topic that I have specific and/or unusual experience with pops up in discussion, I often bring up my specific knowledge then.  Otherwise, I leave the floor open for someone doing treading the path less taken, like you are.

You are always welcome to post when you feel you have something to add to the conversation.

Lex

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #904 on: January 01, 2010, 07:40:25 am »
Lex, do you avoid seafood to minimize the variables in your experiment?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #905 on: January 01, 2010, 09:42:28 am »
Lex, do you avoid seafood to minimize the variables in your experiment?

No, I just don't think there is a lot of evidence that paleo man ate a lot of sea food.  In fact there seems to be evidence to the contrary.  I also find that fish and poultry don't satisfy my hunger as well as red meat and fat.  Sort of like Chineese food.  I eat fish until I'm stuffed to the gills and 2 hours later I'm starving.  Not nearly enough fat.  In

Our paleo ancestors evolved on the African Savanna with herds of grass eating animals not sea food.  North American Natives depended on elk, deer, and bison and not sea food.  We seem to think that because one small group, the Inuits, have a diet heavy in fish, that this indicates that this should be our primary food.  To me, the Inuits have little choice.  Their environmnet doesn't support grass fed animals.  This is humans adapting to their local environments and doesn't make sea food an optimum choice - for the Inuits it's the only choice.  They also depend heavily on blubber and seal fat, without which I doubt they would be as successful as they are.  Last I checked blubber and seal fat were in short supply at the local supermarket.

I'm heavily bisased towards red meat and fat.  I don't do well on the non-red meats.

Lex

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #906 on: January 01, 2010, 06:19:52 pm »
We seem to think that because one small group, the Inuits, have a diet heavy in fish, that this indicates that this should be our primary food.  To me, the Inuits have little choice.  Their environmnet doesn't support grass fed animals.  This is humans adapting to their local environments and doesn't make sea food an optimum choice - for the Inuits it's the only choice.  They also depend heavily on blubber and seal fat, without which I doubt they would be as successful as they are.  Last I checked blubber and seal fat were in short supply at the local supermarket.

I'm heavily bisased towards red meat and fat.  I don't do well on the non-red meats.

Lex

I think that the first year of Stefanssons acquaintance with the Inuit was anomalous, in that normally they would be feasting on caribou, but were starving because the caribou did not come.
There were caribou there in my time, and fish would have been dog food in a good year.

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #907 on: January 01, 2010, 06:42:41 pm »
I think that the first year of Stefanssons acquaintance with the Inuit was anomalous, in that normally they would be feasting on caribou, but were starving because the caribou did not come.
There were caribou there in my time, and fish would have been dog food in a good year.

For the Inupiat people, fish was/is a very important food : http://www.westonaprice.org/The-Fish-That-We-Eat-by-Anore-Jones.html

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #908 on: January 01, 2010, 06:49:30 pm »
I also find that fish and poultry don't satisfy my hunger as well as red meat and fat.  Sort of like Chineese food.  I eat fish until I'm stuffed to the gills and 2 hours later I'm starving.  Not nearly enough fat. 

Did you try fatty fish (herring, mackerel, sardines, etc.), roe and fatty seafood like crabs ?
I find them very satisfying...

Offline Nicola

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #909 on: January 01, 2010, 10:04:37 pm »
Lex, thank's for giving Danny a lift - it's interesting to have others eating your mix!

http://www.carnivorehealth.com/main/2009/12/21/a-gift-from-lex.html

Nicola

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #910 on: January 01, 2010, 11:24:02 pm »
No, I just don't think there is a lot of evidence that paleo man ate a lot of sea food.  In fact there seems to be evidence to the contrary. 

We have found fish vertebra from fresh and salt water in many prehistoric sites.

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #911 on: January 01, 2010, 11:39:21 pm »
I think that the first year of Stefanssons acquaintance with the Inuit was anomalous, in that normally they would be feasting on caribou, but were starving because the caribou did not come.
There were caribou there in my time, and fish would have been dog food in a good year.

The high level of the nitrogen-15 isotope in the bones of the inuits clearly indicate their high consumption of marine mammals.

Offline bleeding

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #912 on: January 04, 2010, 12:04:16 am »
Hey Lex - here's a theory about your HBA1c

When a regular diet-eater eats, their liver gets the bulk of the insulin spike and processes the bulk of the incoming glucose.     Most of their body is not exposed to a high glucose level OR to as high an insulin level as the liver is.

BUT the rest of the body does get the insulin later, after the liver's mopped up most of (or a large fraction of) the glucose.

Your muscles, from the palmitic acid & ketones, are highly insulin resistant (a good thing in your case - the muscle doesn't WANT to be insulin sensitive).  The "normal-dieter" 's muscles are  nowhere near as insulin resistant as yours, so glucose that does make it into their blood is reduced quickly by the insulin's effects on muscle and adipose tissue.  

Most of their body "sees"  on average less glucose than yours does - it's their liver that's getting kicked in their shorts.  

In your body the liver's being spared the huge glucose, fructose and insulin spikes, BUT more proteins are being exposed to a higher average level of glucose for longer periods than the "normal" - diet eater.

If you have any science geek friends they could probably run a simulation that will show this; your whole-body "area under the curve" is a little bit higher.

For the average person, "area under curve" for the liver is disproportionately high, but whole-body "area under the curve" is lower.  
« Last Edit: January 04, 2010, 12:11:35 am by bleeding »

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #913 on: January 06, 2010, 01:03:47 am »
bleeding,
Interesting ideas about HbA1c.  Not sure what the practical implications are howerver.  If HbA1c is a true indication of total glycation products, and we want to keep these products low, then maybe the effects of eating ZC is counter productive.  It seems to be sort of a catch-22.  If we eat a normal high carb diet then over time we get pathological insulin resistance and HbA1c rises.  If we eat ZC then we get physiolgical insulin resistance and HbA1c rises.  Wonder if this supports the idea that LC or VLC is the better approach?

Thoughts?

Lex

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #914 on: January 06, 2010, 01:19:13 am »
Kidney Stone update:

Over the weekend I had significant blood in my urine to the point that on occasion it was quite dark red.  There wasn’t any pain so I figured that I could wait and see my doctor on Monday which I did.  He took X-rays and found the following:

The original kidney stone on the left side has moved all the way into the bladder and is happily mucking about causing minor discomfort and bleeding.  It seems to be biding its time (the doctor calls it the ‘honeymoon period’), waiting for just the right moment to cause maximum misery as it makes its final exit.   I can hardly wait.

The stone on the right side has only moved about 1/3 of the distance from its original position on its way to the bladder.  This explains the shortened time frame of only about 12 hours of pain in mid December when it made its initial move.  It has a long way to go on its way to the bladder so there is much more fun in store. Again, I can hardly wait.

It seems that this could go on for months as these little imps work their way out.  The annoying part is that intense pain could strike at any moment with no warning and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  The bleeding also sets the stage for infections so whenever there is obvious blood in the urine my doctor recommends that I come in and get an anti-biotic so the situation is not compounded by a bladder and/or kidney infection.

More on this as it develops,

Lex



Offline van

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #915 on: January 06, 2010, 04:15:59 am »
  Lex, sorry to hear that.  Isn't there an ultrasonic something or other that can 'blast' apart the stones.  I think I heard of someone using that technique once?  Best of luck

Offline bleeding

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #916 on: January 06, 2010, 04:18:26 am »
I would think zero carb is better.   Like Moshe Feldenkrais used to say (in a completely different context) - it gets better when you use your whole body.    Just as a general principle, spreading the "damage" out over the whole body instead of limiting it to the liver.    We don't see the glycation effects on the liver because the standard tests don't measure that.  

I thought your guess that you're eating some of this material (HBA1c) was right on the money.  

The whole thing reminds me of a hyperlipid post a little while ago where Peter wrote that when you eat a high fat meal you absorb your dead gut bacteria's gram negative proteins.  If you eat a high carb meal you absorb none of the gram negative dead residue.  

Well, the residue is "bad" for you - not as bad as if you had a gram negative bacterial infection, but still bad.

Turns out your immune system uses the digested gram negative material to gauge what's happening in your gut.  On high carb the immune system is denied this information.  


bleeding,
Interesting ideas about HbA1c.  Not sure what the practical implications are howerver.  If HbA1c is a true indication of total glycation products, and we want to keep these products low, then maybe the effects of eating ZC is counter productive.  It seems to be sort of a catch-22.  If we eat a normal high carb diet then over time we get pathological insulin resistance and HbA1c rises.  If we eat ZC then we get physiolgical insulin resistance and HbA1c rises.  Wonder if this supports the idea that LC or VLC is the better approach?

Thoughts?

Lex

I bet in the end it's just like ketosis - if you're diabetic it's something to watch closely.  If you're not diabetic it's interesting information, but nothing to fuss over.  

One reason high-carb eaters are insulin resistant is the constant high levels of insulin make the muscles reduce the number of insulin receptors.  The opposite is likely true for you.

I believe if you ate carbs again you would have about a week of hardship because some of your digestive and other carbohydrate-handling enzymes have down-regulated.   After a week your insulin resistance would disappear quickly (doesn't take long for the palmitic acid and ketones to get flushed out of the blood)   and you would be extremely insulin sensitive.   Your pancreas has probably had a great vacation too, having to put out a small fraction of the "normal" output.  

The low-fat dieter is insulin resistant for a long time to come.  
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 06:22:25 am by bleeding »

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #917 on: January 06, 2010, 07:29:24 am »
Really sorry to hear about the impending pain. Maybe you can have some painkillers on hand this time to make it better??

Also, I have some other questions. Do you ever get tired of eating ground beef? I ask this because I am particularly not fond of the texture and enjoy the non-ground muscle meats much better.

What cuts did you eat before going ground beef? How did you transition to ground beef? What percentage of the time do you eat your gb + animal food mix?

Why do you eat ground beef over non-ground? Is there any advantage over non-ground?

Do you ever eat bison, lamb, or other game?

How much do you trust slankers? Their prices seem to be 20-50% below the other grass-fed places I've seen which makes me a bit nervous. How much meat do you buy at one time? And lastly, how much are you worried about freezing meat for an extended amount of time?  Thanks for the time as always.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #918 on: January 06, 2010, 08:18:43 am »
Lex, Did they give you any idea how much calcification you have in your kidneys? It sounds like they first thought there were just two stones, but now see that there are more. Have you seen your kidney image to see if you can see how calcified it is? The hospital gave me an xray image film when I had some small kidney stones years ago, to give to my urologist.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #919 on: January 06, 2010, 11:12:07 am »
Lex, Did they give you any idea how much calcification you have in your kidneys? It sounds like they first thought there were just two stones, but now see that there are more. Have you seen your kidney image to see if you can see how calcified it is? The hospital gave me an xray image film when I had some small kidney stones years ago, to give to my urologist.  

Just two stones. They said nothing about additional calcification of the kidneys.

 Lex, sorry to hear that.  Isn't there an ultrasonic something or other that can 'blast' apart the stones.  I think I heard of someone using that technique once?  Best of luck

Apparently there is an ultrasonic intervention that can be taken if the stones are of sufficient size.  Mine are in the 3mm range (1/8") and are far to small for ultrasonic to have any effect.  There is an option where they can insert an catheter and manually crush the stones in the bladder, but they only do this as a last resort as the procedure is expensive and rather invasive.

Lex
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 11:46:44 am by lex_rooker »

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #920 on: January 06, 2010, 11:44:56 am »
Really sorry to hear about the impending pain. Maybe you can have some painkillers on hand this time to make it better??

Nothing but morphine will even touch the pain and I have to go to a hospital to get that.  I do have Vicodin, but don’t bother taking it as it does nothing.  Pretty much I’m forced to tough it out unless I want to go to the emergency room.

Also, I have some other questions. Do you ever get tired of eating ground beef? I ask this because I am particularly not fond of the texture and enjoy the non-ground muscle meats much better.

Initially I found ground beef rather boring, but once I actually got hungry, ground beef tasted wonderful.  Most of us eat by the clock, not because we are hungry.  How often do you ask yourself “hmmm, what do I feel for for lunch”.  If you ask yourself this type of question then you are not hungry.

What cuts did you eat before going ground beef? How did you transition to ground beef? What percentage of the time do you eat your gb + animal food mix?

I pretty much chose ground beef at the start.  It was inexpensive and just as nutritious as the more pricy cuts of steaks and roasts.  Why pay $12 to $20 per pound of food when you can get the exact same nutrition for $5/lb?  I do often order the course Chili ground meat for a little more texture, but at this point it really doesn’t matter as I’m not choosey when I get hungry.

I eat my ground meat and pet food mix almost everyday.  In other words I eat just like you would feed your dog or cat – the same thing every day.  This only changes on the 2 or 3 days per month when I eat out and then I order a ribeye steak blu.

Why do you eat ground beef over non-ground? Is there any advantage over non-ground?

Just price and I’m cheap.  My total food cost for a month is about $300 USD


Do you ever eat bison, lamb, or other game?

On occasion I’ll eat bison, deer, or elk.  I’m not a fan of lamb, I just don’t like it as well.  I also don’t really like chicken or fish as they just don’t satisfy my hunger.  Beef is least expensive so that is what I eat about 90% of the time.

How much do you trust slankers? Their prices seem to be 20-50% below the other grass-fed places I've seen which makes me a bit nervous.

Yes, I trust Slankers.  Everything Ted has ever told me I was able to verify from other sources.  This is not the case with some of the other suppliers I’ve dealt with.  Ted is a bit course around the edges, but he is honest as the day is long and will tell you what he believes to be the truth even if he knows it will loose a sale.

How much meat do you buy at one time?

I always purchase a full box which is 60 – 65 lbs.  This lasts me about 1 month.  It takes 4 days to ship to me so in the summer they have to add more dry ice to the package so there is a little less meat.  In the winter I get the full 65 lbs.

And lastly, how much are you worried about freezing meat for an extended amount of time? 

I don’t worry about my meat being frozen at all.  I prefer it frozen.  It allows me to have several months worth of food on hand.  Life is always a trade-off.  My guess is that meat that was frozen a few hours after slaughter is no more deteriorated than “fresh” meat that has been rotting and breaking down at warmer temperatures for several days.  Frozen meat makes my life simpler and I can spend my time on other things of interest like fixing antique clocks.

If I missed something don’t hesitate to follow up with more questions,

Lex

Offline bleeding

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #921 on: January 06, 2010, 12:06:05 pm »
I donate blood, and every time I take the swab off to watch the blood flowing out ... just my morbid curiosity.

So I have no problem with bleeding, but ...  I cannot imagine red urine.  Makes me shudder.  I would NOT have waited "because there was no pain".   You're a tough nut, Lex.

"stone" conjures up something with smooth surfaces.  Is this a bad assumption on my part?   do these actually have sharp edges  and needles?

"stone" would never make me think of  of bleeding ... not like the way they describe gout,  "crystal in your joint"

Just two stones. They said nothing about additional calcification of the kidneys.

Apparently there is an ultrasonic intervention that can be taken if the stones are of sufficient size.  Mine are in the 3mm range (1/8") and are far to small for ultrasonic to have any effect.  There is an option where they can insert an catheter and manually crush the stones in the bladder, but they only do this as a last resort as the procedure is expensive and rather invasive.

Lex

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #922 on: January 06, 2010, 01:30:49 pm »
   You're a tough nut, Lex.


That was my thought, too.  I think a lot of the really serious raw Paleo folks are pretty tough.  You have to kind of be tough to have the guts to try raw meat if you didn't grow up eating it.  You also have to be pretty tough to endure all the verbal abuse and rejection that people heap on us for eating this way.

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #923 on: January 06, 2010, 03:59:01 pm »
Kidney Stone update:

Over the weekend I had significant blood in my urine to the point that on occasion it was quite dark red.  There wasn’t any pain so I figured that I could wait and see my doctor on Monday which I did.  He took X-rays and found the following:

The original kidney stone on the left side has moved all the way into the bladder and is happily mucking about causing minor discomfort and bleeding.  It seems to be biding its time (the doctor calls it the ‘honeymoon period’), waiting for just the right moment to cause maximum misery as it makes its final exit.   I can hardly wait.

The stone on the right side has only moved about 1/3 of the distance from its original position on its way to the bladder.  This explains the shortened time frame of only about 12 hours of pain in mid December when it made its initial move.  It has a long way to go on its way to the bladder so there is much more fun in store. Again, I can hardly wait.

It seems that this could go on for months as these little imps work their way out.  The annoying part is that intense pain could strike at any moment with no warning and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  The bleeding also sets the stage for infections so whenever there is obvious blood in the urine my doctor recommends that I come in and get an anti-biotic so the situation is not compounded by a bladder and/or kidney infection.

More on this as it develops,

Lex




Lex, I know you are aware of the "alternative" ways of getting rid of these little buggers immediately like the lemon cure, etc.  Why not get rid of these stones pronto?
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Offline majormark

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #924 on: January 06, 2010, 05:25:35 pm »
goodsamaritan,

What is the best alternative way to get read of them? Chanca Piedra, lemon ?

I also experienced very small stones some time ago but I took some pills to make me urinate a lot (I did not know that alternatives existed). Not sure if they actually helped but since I did not feel the slight pain after a while I assumed it cleared out and did not bother to actually check for it. I'm asking in case I get those again.

Thanks.

 

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