Author Topic: Lex's Journal  (Read 825077 times)

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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1400 on: October 12, 2011, 05:37:54 pm »
... My own experience shows that when I'm away from home and not able to eat my normal daily mix for an extended period of time, I start seeing signs of problems brewing. When I return to my mix everything goes back to normal.
...
When I stop eating this mix and just eat a normal zero carb diet of fresh muscle meats I soon begin to notice little things cropping up, so I return to my tried and true mix and all is well again.

Hi Lex,

could you please describe these problems you get on a muscle meat + fat only zc diet?

I would like to find out which key elements are missing in muscle meat and fat.

Löwenherz

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1401 on: October 13, 2011, 12:55:28 am »
Nothing major, just small things that I used to consider normal but have found dissappear if I eat my normal food.  Things like cold sores, small patches of eczema, edema in hands and/or feet.

These things don't happen over night or by eating one or two odd meals.  They start to occur if I eat improperly over a couple of weeks or longer.  I don't get all of them at once.  Edema (swelling of feet and ankles, or puffy fingers) is usually the first thing to show up, followed by itchy patches of skin, and finally the occasionall cold sore though these don't always happen.  I've had this happen several times when I've been traveling for an extended period and my normal food is not available.  During these times I just eat the best choice of food available to me at the time which is usually grain fed meats, eggs and the like.  The fat I eat when traveling is butter as it is the only acceptable fat that is always available when eating out.  Also most of this stuff is cooked, though if I have the opportunity I ask for it rare.

Hope this helps,

Lex
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 05:17:26 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline Sully

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1402 on: October 13, 2011, 04:31:32 pm »
Yeah definitely Lex, a few days ago I went out to eat with a friend I haven't seen in a while. Was a Chinese buffet we chose. He knows how I eat hah. They had some salmon and other fish in butter and oysters, and crayfish ( I lucked out haha) I don't mind a rare steak or salmon in butter, to eat with some friends/family once in a while.

I would imagine you bring rendered fat or pemmican with you on trips. I guess eating out is another story though.

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1403 on: October 14, 2011, 03:55:20 am »
Nothing major, just small things that I used to consider normal but have found dissappear if I eat my normal food.  Things like cold sores, small patches of eczema, edema in hands and/or feet.
..

Thanks Lex!

During my last zero carb muscle meat experiment (fatty lamb only) I got small skin eczemas on the left side of my face. From my personal experience (without any proof from lab tests) I would say that a raw low carb diet consisting of some fruit plus fatty muscle meats plus some seafood every now and then is nutrient sufficient. I have done this in the last years for many months non-stop without any problems. Recently I lost the taste for nearly all organs. Today I got some raw grass-fed beef liver that tasted really toxic to me. Beef tongue is ok, but all other.. Muscle meat tastes fantastic every single day. Organ meats are usually dirt cheap, for me that makes sense.

There are some reports in the paleo sphere about folic acid deficiencies on zc muscle meat diets. Maybe this is the key factor? In this case liver would be a must on all zc diets.

Löwenherz
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 04:19:33 am by Löwenherz »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1404 on: October 14, 2011, 08:45:26 am »
Yes, I do think liver and other organs are a must on an all-meat diet, though technically this would mean that it's not truly zero carb, which is one reason why Zero Carbers tend to claim that liver is not important, as it doesn't fit with their dogma, plus liver is not generally popular with Americans.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1405 on: October 14, 2011, 11:00:41 am »
My guess is that if you don't eat organ meats on a regular basis then some fruit and/or green plant food is necessary to good health.  All carnivores that I'm aware of eat the entire animal.  If we choose to be carnivorous, then we must do likewise.

This also supports my contention that when the Cree Natives put dried berries in their pemmican it wasn't to please the whiteman's pallet.  They did it because pemmican is made from muscle meats and muscle meats alone will not support good health.  Of course this is pure speculation on my part, but if you've ever added the small amount of fruit (5%-10% by weight) to pemmican you'd know that there is very little taste difference between pemmican with fruit and pemmican without.  No one would choose to add fruit to pemmican for the taste as the fat and dehydrated meat just overpower it.  It's not at all like adding dry fruit to a bland grain based bar.  Native Americans were also very efficient.  Their traditions evolved over many centuries and the work was so time consuming that I doubt that they would add an extra step or ingredient to a process unless it was necessary.   Why would they spend the time to harvest, dry, and grind berries to be added to pemmican if it wasn't critical to the process.  I've made pemmican both ways and I can assure you that adding 5%-10% dry strawberry or blueberry powder to pemmican doesn't transform it into a fruity tasting Pop-Tart. 

Records indicate that pemmican was used as a base and eaten with other foods and also eaten alone.  My guess is that the pemmican without fruit was probably used when other foods were available to supplement, and the pemmican with fruit was used when it was the only food eaten.

Danny Roddy tried eating a pemmican-only diet for over a year, but his results were disappointing over the long term.  It might be interesting to re-run the experiment only this time add a small amount of dehydrated fruit to the pemmican.  The fruit would need to be a high nutrition low sugar fruit like strawberries, saskatoon berries, blue berries, etc.  Might even be able to use commercial super food supplements like Super Reds Formula from Purity Products.  It's worth thinking about.

Lex
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 12:58:54 pm by lex_rooker »

Offline Sully

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1406 on: October 14, 2011, 11:30:14 am »
Wow interesting insight Lex. I agree completely.

 It seems some semi sweet fruit like berries actually helps me when I only have muscle meat over long periods. It seems, just cause you don't need much of a certain nutrient, doesn't mean you don't need it at all.

Offline raw

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1407 on: October 15, 2011, 01:14:48 pm »
I get the prove  on only eating the whole animal. Basically, you don't need to consume anything extra, like fruits or veggies... no need of them. My four yrs old cries for to eat raw meat. It likes he almost forgets about the other fruits to eat, even I grow them in my garden. He eats fruits sometimes once a week or every two three days, depends on his mood. But he absolutely likes meat organs, bone marrows, brain and tongue...etc. Now I am feeding my husband also enough organs with muscle meat and he is also behaving almost like my son.  Of course, one meal 7 am in the morning, gives him the energy for entire day for almost 24 hrs. His co-workers think that he is very cheap to buy lunch or probably he is starving himself to save money.  One raw vegan guy (by birth he is raw vegan), he carries entire kitchen with him everyday in his office while my husband works with him and eats nothing...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 01:42:31 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline Sully

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1408 on: October 15, 2011, 03:31:55 pm »
One raw vegan guy (by birth he is raw vegan), he carries entire kitchen with him everyday in his office while my husband works with him and eats nothing...
That's how I am. I don't eat frequently at all. If I work at night I eat on my break. But even then I go without until I get home. It's easy for me to fast as long as I had enough meat the day prior. I am working 9am to 4pm, I go without and still I am not hungry sometimes even when I get home. And my job is very physical.

Offline zeno

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1409 on: December 13, 2011, 12:34:47 am »
Dear Lex,

Pardon the redundancy, but I have two simple questions: as of now are you still mainly relying on Slanker'spet food product as your meat source?

In the past you've made it clear that you don't believe in cooking your food but I remember that you claimed to rendering your fat. Do you still eat rendered fat?


Offline Dorothy

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1410 on: December 13, 2011, 06:11:39 am »
Hello Lex and friends. When I first joined this forum I read your entire journal Lex - every last word - even the ones that had to be repeated.  ;)  It took me weeks some days reading all day non-stop. More recently when you spoke to the issue of not expecting the same results if people didn't do exactly what you do, I appreciated that a great deal. I thank you for making your journey and sharing it with us in your journal in such a down to earth common-sense manner. It's so refreshing to come across someone who comments on what they do that works for them without pontificating about how everyone else ought to be doing it.   

In an attempt to add some value to your journal I thought that I would add some information I learned about Slankers that might be of interest.

Their Primal Ground Beef mix is different from their Pet Food in more ways than is apparent. The primal is so fine-ground that it is almost buttery - but that is the superficial part. The fact that it is inspected and ground at the same facility as all their human-grade meats whereas the pet food is not inspected and ground at a different facility might also be only superficial -- but what is not superficial is the content of the mix. The primal ground beef is around 60% organ and 40% beef trim whereas the pet food is only 10% organ and the high organ pet food is only 20% organ. Also, there are only 4 organs used in the primal mix whereas the pet food has those organs, but occasionally - more diversity. The primal food stays more stable, it is usually pretty much the same from batch to batch whereas the Pet food changes every batch depending on what's available for it.

My husband and I like the primal mix a great deal because of the fine grind and the taste.  But, if you are planning on trying to do an all meat diet with more variety to get closer to the experience of eating a whole animal - then you would need to eat the pet food - according to my understanding. The pet food is very chunky and (especially when it ferments like you do with it Lex) it indeed might not be to some people's taste. My husband even tried cooking it rare as soon as it defrosted and I smothered it with egg yolks and sauces and still could not tolerate it. We're just can't seem to tolerate real whole natural foods like you can Lex! ;D The pet food we reserve for our little doggie carnivores. There is supposed to be no bone in either the primal or the pet mix.

If you are looking to get more fat without rendering -- the chili meat does have chunks of fat in it but they also have a high fat ground beef mix that is 30% fat (they achieve this by adding back fat to the mix - they rarely have any back fat to sell on its own). They also have marrow bones - but they are cut in such a way that is not easy to get the raw marrow out raw. You have to dig it out with a long, thin knife. It takes effort - but is worth it as it is delicious - but if you have a source that will cut it shorter - I would stick with that. The "soft" bones for your dogs are not actually soft btw. My dogs do not have good teeth so that was a waste. They are not very useful for broth either. You're better off with the marrow bones for that.

Here are some other hints. The meat comes in very bad bags that leak from all parts (what a mess our first defrost was!)  I have to put the bags flat in a large glass container or standing propped up with paper towels in a smaller bowl to defrost it. Also, even though I live in Texas (and it's the coldest part of the year here) the meat was partially defrosted when it arrived (probably from being on the UPS truck where heat can build). You have to be ready to defrost it all right away or be ok with re-freezing it. The suet is in a massive chunk so the only way to deal with it is to defrost and re-freeze or render it or share it with lots of others (maybe the birds?). They seem to have times where things are not available or shipping will take awhile. My first order took a week to get to me because of Thanksgiving and my last order they were out of Pet food because of Deer season - so you have to think ahead with them it seems (or at least I do). If you live in Texas or places close to Slankers it is cheaper to order over the phone for shipping than the internet prices. You might want to compare the two before you order. They also have discounts if you buy larger quantity - which is easy for us with the dogs which makes them quite reasonably priced. The bad side could be all the packaging - but I'm saving all the insulation to insulate a place for our feral cats to stay warm. If you can recycle it into a new use then there's no downside to that.

The Primal mix is a good find if you cannot tolerate organs on their own and don't want to have to try to grind and mix (like me). Granted, Slankers is not organic, but on a relative basis they are pretty into doing things in more of a more natural way than you will find most places.

I am going to try to find an even more local source for a farmer and processing plant to grind up an entire animal for us in the spring. Even grinding up an old ewe and having to pick it up far away I found was going to be a couple of dollars a pound more than Slankers. I will keep on searching for more local sources of whole ground animal - but I'm very happy to have found this source thanks to Lex here.

Hope that's of use to someone.
Thanks again Lex!

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1411 on: December 13, 2011, 10:43:15 am »
Also, there are only 4 organs used in the primal mix whereas the pet food has those organs, but occasionally - more diversity.

Hi Dorothy,

thanks for your report!
Which organ meats do they use in the primal mix?

Löwenherz

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1412 on: December 13, 2011, 11:32:04 am »
Hi Dorothy,

thanks for your report!
Which organ meats do they use in the primal mix?

Löwenherz


You're welcome. :D

The organs in the primal ground are liver, heart, spleen and kidneys.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1413 on: December 24, 2011, 11:19:42 am »
Pardon the redundancy, but I have two simple questions: as of now are you still mainly relying on Slanker'spet food product as your meat source?

Yes, I still use Slankers pet food as my main ORGAN meat source.  I mix it with a good bit of Slankers regular ground beef.  I tried their primal mix, but missed the chewy bits and occasional bone chips that are in the pet food.  The primal mix also tastes rather bland whereas the pet food is a bit more robust and each batch is different depending on what went into the mix.

In the past you've made it clear that you don't believe in cooking your food but I remember that you claimed to rendering your fat. Do you still eat rendered fat?

I'm not sure I said that I don't believe in cooking my food.  I think what I said was that no other animal cooks its food and therefore, it seems reasonable that we shouldn't cook ours either.  That said, yes I do render my fat for two reasons:
1) it is much easier to store as once rendered it doesn't require refrigeration, and 2) I make a good bit of pemmican to send as samples as well as for demonstrations to Scout Troops, Church Youth Groups, Hiking Clubs, and the like.  At the demos I render a couple of pounds so that people can see what to do, but supply pre-rendered fat for making the bulk of the pemmican.  I render about 150 lbs of fat a year, and do it all over one weekend in June or July.

Other than that, I eat out several times per month and usually eat lightly cooked food on these occasions.  It is my custom to order ribeye steaks extra rare when available, but will settle for whatever is the most paleo friendly thing on the menu if necessary.  On occasion I'm stuck with Caesar Salmon Salad or other such fare and in that case I order 3 servings of the salmon on the salad, a 1/2 cup melted butter to get some fat, and leave the green stuff in the bowl for the dishwasher.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 03:50:51 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1414 on: December 24, 2011, 11:48:29 am »
Thanks for such a wonderful post Dorothy.  I'm so glad you found my journal of value.  I do try to accurately report my experiences and then it is up to others to decide for themselves what they wish to do.

I've tried Slankers Primal Mix and found it to pasty and bland for my taste.  I'm so used to the pet food with the chewy chunks and occasional bone chips that the finely ground stuff they make for humans seems boring.

I used to order the chili meat on a regular basis but for the past couple of years have just settled on the regular ground beef for convenience.  I'm much more about working in my shop or doing other things I enjoy than spending hours agonizing over food, so I keep things very simple and consistent.  I doubt if I spend more than 30 - 45 minutes per day total on food including prep time and time to eat.

You are certainly right about the cheap bags they pack the meat in.  I usually set my meat out over night in 9x13x2 glass baking dishes and let it defrost.  When I mix everything I just poor the liquid back into the mix.

I wish you all the best on your dietary adventure.  If I can help in any way don't hesitate to ask.  I try to check my journal every few days and respond to posts, but often times I'm away from home for several days at a time teaching antique clock repair classes or giving Jerky / pemmican demos and I'm probably the only person left on earth that doesn't carry internet access around in their pocket whereever they go.

Lex

Offline zeno

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1415 on: December 25, 2011, 08:33:02 am »
Yes, I still use Slankers pet food as my main ORGAN meat source.  I mix it with a good bit of Slankers regular ground beef.

I'm surprised you enjoy the pre-frozen meat. It just doesn't do me any good and doesn't taste all that good either in my opinion...

I think what I said was that no other animal cooks its food and therefore, it seems reasonable that we shouldn't cook ours either. 

Ha-ha--I beg your pardon. Now that I recall, I believe you said that exact statement.

Lex, perhaps you can help me to understand fat to lean meat ratios in a low-carbohydrate diet. When people are asked how much they eat of fat relative to lean meat, they often answer somewhere around 80%. Does this mean that one would be eating 80% fat by weight or caloric content? This is something I've never understood.

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1416 on: December 25, 2011, 02:24:02 pm »
I'm surprised you enjoy the pre-frozen meat. It just doesn't do me any good and doesn't taste all that good either in my opinion...

To be honest, none of this food tastes like chocolate chip cookies no matter where it comes from, but it should be pretty clear that I don't spend much time on taste or fancy presentation.  I eat to satisfy my hunger and nutritional needs and that's about it.  It's sort of the barefoot approach to eating - basic in the extreme.

Lex, perhaps you can help me to understand fat to lean meat ratios in a low-carbohydrate diet. When people are asked how much they eat of fat relative to lean meat, they often answer somewhere around 80%. Does this mean that one would be eating 80% fat by weight or caloric content? This is something I've never understood. 

We usually mean 80% of calories from fat.  This equates to about 30% fat by weight.  I personally stay in the region of 70% to 75% of calories from fat (about 20% to 25% of fat by weight)most of the time.  When I get upwards of 80% of calories from fat or above, I find that a lot of the fat is not digested and it is eliminated as soft pasty stools that float.  With too much fat in the diet, a bowel movement is akin to squeezing a tube of toothpaste.  Since the fat is not digested, it is calories wasted so why eat it.

Remember that I'm eating ALL the fat in my meat because I eat it raw.  Most people purchase ground beef with 30% fat (and therefore 80% of calories from fat) because it is the cheapest, but then they cook it until much of the fat is rendered out and they eat the cooked meat and throw the fat away.  Meat cooked medium to well done can lose 75%-95% of its fat content.  If you throw the fat away, the cooked meat might only contain between 15% to 35% of calories from fat.

Lex
« Last Edit: December 25, 2011, 02:28:28 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline zeno

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1417 on: December 27, 2011, 01:52:08 am »
We usually mean 80% of calories from fat.  This equates to about 30% fat by weight. 

Wow. So your diet doesn't require as much fat as I originally thought it would. I thought the ratio of fat to lean meat was determined by weight so that if you were to eat a pound of meat it would be 80% fat and 20% lean (approximately).

I believe you stated that you are eating 2,000 calories worth of food per day. Is that true? How much does 2,000 calories of meat weigh?                                                                                                                   

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1418 on: December 27, 2011, 05:53:51 am »
I believe you stated that you are eating 2,000 calories worth of food per day. Is that true? How much does 2,000 calories of meat weigh? 

Assuming that my meat contains about 25% fat by weight (about 76% of calories from fat), I usually eat between 1 1/2 to 2 lbs per day.  This would have the following breakdown:
                                                         
                                                          1 1/2 lbs               1 3/4 lbs                  2lbs
Total Calories                                1,995                     2,325                     2,658
Grams Protein                                  107                       125                          143
Grams Fat                                          170                       198                          227

My guess is that I average somewhere between 1 1/2 and 1 3/4 lbs per day unless I'm doing a lot of physical labor and then I'll eat 2 lbs or maybe even a bit more.  95% of the time I only eat one meal per day at around 2pm and I eat until I'm satisfied.  When digging trenches for sprinkler systems or other physical work I'll often eat a second meal around 6pm because I am hungry again, and again I eat until I'm satified, but this time it only takes about 1/2 - 3/4 lb of food to satify me.

When eating out I always order 2 ribeye steaks (usually 1 lb each) extra rare.  Since these don't have as much fat I can eat more.   

Lex


Offline Dorothy

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1419 on: December 28, 2011, 09:45:50 am »
So Lex - do you have a sense on a typical day how many of your calories (the percentage of your diet) come from your rendered fat?

Lex - I love how you keep your food in proper perspective to your overall life and goals. It sounds like you have a greater mission and occupation with your rendering that serves others.  :D  For those not so inclined (and doing this just for themselves like my husband and I are) it is quite easy to keep a Slankers order very high in fat and have it all raw if someone wishes to.

Slankers sells big hunks of suet that arrive frozen. These are probably what you use for your rendering right Lex? If you take this hunk and break it apart while still frozen you can take a section and with a very sharp knife slice it on the edges to make crumbled suet or slice it very thin for mincing into tiny bits. I was surprised at how easy it was. I mistakenly thought it had to be defrosted - but it's much easier to handle when still frozen. You can mix this with your chunky pet meat so that you have all raw fat with your meal as it gets soft and mixes in as it defrosts or you can take slices, put them in a glass container, put them in the freezer and just take out a slice and put it in your mouth to chew on (which I think is delicious and I prefer to do). If you have cats or dogs or certain species of birds as pets - they would love it if you share! I'm much more popular in the animal kingdom when I have suet.  ;)

Slankers also sells marrow bones - but it's not nearly as simple and is certainly is not as economical. I have to admit though that my favorite way to add fat to ground meat is still with egg yolks from my chickens. yum.

The primal mix is also much higher in fat content because it is so high in organ meat. Also, their regular ground comes in a high fat version and a low fat version. I think the high fat is about 30% fat and the low fat is 10% if I remember right. That I'd imagine would have to be taken into consideration. Which one do you order Lex? If I remember you used to order the chili meat. That one was way too chunky for our initiated and untrained tastes. It is much like the pet food in it's chunkiness. It did have big chunks of fat in it so I bet it was pretty high fat. I don't know what percentage fat the chili mix is compared to the other mixes... do you know Lex? Figuring out the percentages and calories can't be easy... at least for someone mathematically challenged like me!  ;)


Offline RawZi

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1420 on: December 28, 2011, 04:00:20 pm »
  If you have cats or dogs or certain species of birds as pets - they would love it if you share!

    Do you have a cat that likes suet? I haven't tried it on mine. One of my cats seems to dislike all fats, except liver.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1421 on: December 29, 2011, 02:10:47 pm »
So Lex - do you have a sense on a typical day how many of your calories (the percentage of your diet) come from your rendered fat?

Probably 45% of calories comes from rendered fat.

Slankers sells big hunks of suet that arrive frozen. These are probably what you use for your rendering right Lex?

When I render fat I do about 150 lbs of fat at a time.  Slankers can't provide that amount of fat.  Our forum and others like it have created a large demand for fat and Slankers has a tough time keeping up.  For rendered fat I purchase locally from Marin Sun Farms in the San Francisco area.  They have very good grass fed beef and can also supply large amounts of fat.  The problem is that they don't ship - you have to pick it up at one of their retail locations.  Since I reneder only once a year, it pays me to drive 300 miles to get the fat.  For day to day meat, I perfer to order from Slankers, because they will ship.  Driving 300 miles to get a month or two worth of meat is not cost effective, and I don't have storage space for more.  This is one reason that I render fat.  I can store it without refrigeration. 

If you take this hunk and break it apart while still frozen you can take a section and with a very sharp knife slice it on the edges to make crumbled suet or slice it very thin for mincing into tiny bits. I was surprised at how easy it was. I mistakenly thought it had to be defrosted - but it's much easier to handle when still frozen.

I used to do this but I just don't have the storage room.  Space is limited and I have a very small freezer (7cu.ft.) that I use for my food.   Storing frozen fat takes up a good amount of space.  Messing with frozen fat also takes up a lot of time when preparing meals.  I prefer to spend my time doing the things I love to do like working in my shop or playing with my grand daughter. 

Slankers also sells marrow bones - but it's not nearly as simple and is certainly is not as economical. I have to admit though that my favorite way to add fat to ground meat is still with egg yolks from my chickens. yum.

I don't use marrow bones except on special occasions because they take too much time away from my other interests.  I spend very little time in food preparation - maybe 45 minutes every 10 days or so when I prepare my mix and divide it into daily portions.  I eat very few eggs.  Maybe 3 or 4 times a year when traveling and sausage and eggs are the only thing that even remotely resembles paleo on the menu. Eggs would be very seasonal in our natural environment and even then finding eggs with yolks would be difficult.  Most eggs in the wild would be well on their way to becoming birds, and they would only be available about 6 to 8 weeks out of the year.  Therefore I don't make them a significant part of my diet.

The primal mix is also much higher in fat content because it is so high in organ meat.

I've tried the primal mix but prefer the pet food.  The primal mix is ground too fine and is like paste to me.  I like the chewy chunks,  bits of bone, and other textures in the pet food.  It is also very bland tasting compared to the pet food.

Also, their regular ground comes in a high fat version and a low fat version. I think the high fat is about 30% fat and the low fat is 10% if I remember right. That I'd imagine would have to be taken into consideration. Which one do you order Lex? If I remember you used to order the chili meat.

I order all of the above as the mood suits me and depending on what Slankers has in stock when I order.  Sometimes they are out of one thing or another and I have to substitue something else.  My normal order is the regular ground beef as I prefer to pay the high price for lean meat and add my own less expensive local fat (usually rendered but sometimes fresh).  Second is the chili meat and last is the high fat stuff.  I don't want to pay $5+/lb for fat just because they mixed it into the ground meat.  I pay a little over $1 per lb for my local fat.

I don't know what percentage fat the chili mix is compared to the other mixes... do you know Lex?

Everytime I've tested the chili meat it comes in with about the same fat content as the regular ground beef which is between 10% and 12% by weight.

Lex

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1422 on: January 07, 2012, 01:58:38 am »
Thanks so much for responding Lex... and Happy New Year to you.

Ah - the beauty of diversity! My husband and I only like the primal meat from Slankers because instead of "pasty" we think it's "buttery". ;) The other meats have the consistency to us of, well, dog food! lol  I'm sure the chunkier food is more natural and that our taste buds have been adulterated from a lifetime of pastiness.  ;D  I think it's great that we have the choice. Again, though, for doing what you do Lex eating the whole animal in the pet food might be necessary anyway -  so primal is probably not even an alternative choice. You sometimes get brains and adrenals and all the other parts - whereas with the primal I never get those. It also seems that my relationship with food is quite different than yours Lex. I have a lovely kitchen in which I greatly enjoy being creative and spending time and sitting down to an attractive meal prepared with love is one of my great joys in life. I have other interests and hobbies too - but I consider food to be one of my hobbies. I don't feel like it detracts, but adds to my life. I also delight in sharing food with others that I love. That's one of the reason why I enjoy sharing food with my pets so much now that we are getting deliveries from Slankers. Sitting outside with the dogs, cats and chickens all around eating the same thing I eat in a circle tickles me silly. And yes RawZi - the cats go NUTS for the raw suet! So do the chickens and the dogs. We all sit around chewing on it together. I don't eat anywhere near the amounts that you do Lex of the suet and especially with all the sharing you do with the scouts and groups and how generous you are with other paleos. One package of suet only takes 5 minutes to prepare with an extremely sharp knife and lasts a very, very long time for me even sharing it with my pets so it takes little room in the freezer. 

I can totally understand Lex how food is not for others what it is for me and I can deeply appreciate how you have made it work so well for you within your set of priorities. What you've done is a thing of beauty - making your food fit into and support your life the way you have. I've wondered something through your journal though ........ I have wondered how your wife eats...... and if she shares your attitudes towards your food and if she shares your food with you. I have wondered if having seen the difference in you that your diet has made if she has joined you? What does she think about how you eat?

I'm not sure where I am that eggs would be so restricted in access. The last couple of months I haven't had eggs because no one is laying in winter (which only lasts a couple of months - but most of the year besides my chickens there are lots of animals laying eggs and they are easy to get. But besides that, I'm nowhere near as pristine an eater as you are Lex. I have learned a great deal from you that has changed the way I eat, but me eating as you do is not in the cards because I don't think it's best for me as an individual and my lifestyle and I'm not fighting any of the problems that you have so miraculously conquered through your all meat/organ/fat diet. You have come from a place of great infirmity and found health through extremity. I don't have your motivations -- but your example is important -- especially for those with similar motivations -- and I bet there are many!

Here's a thought - if you are eating 30% fat Lex - wouldn't eating the dog food mixed with the high fat meat be all that is necessary (albeit more expensive)? If one were to eat say one package of the high fat meat a day (which would seem more than sufficient for most people I would think - wouldn't it?) that would only be about a dollar a day more and then there would be no need for the buying of and rendering or slicing and mixing of suet or other fat. If someone has different priorities, considering the amount one will save with such a change of diet cutting out all other expensive foods, still, one could eat quite easily, all raw, for comparatively very little money.  One wouldn't even need to do much of anything except once a day defrost one package of high fat meat and less often a package of pet food. That would be the easiest way to eat using the least time and effort that I can think of - and I think it would meet your requirements of 30% fat right? Basically, for about a dollar a day you would be paying Slankers to get the back fat and mix it in your meals for you and have literally no driving expenses or time needed for preparation. To make sure I'm understood here - Lex - I know what you are doing is working great for you and those you help - this is just an idea for someone who might have even more time and ease restriction/desires and who wants their food to be 100% raw. It's just an idea that I'm putting out there just in case it is of interest to anyone. I'm not saying that I think it's imperative in general to eat everything all raw or anything like that. I just know for me that fat in particular is best raw for my own body. Maybe my liver isn't quite as strong or something? So for me, it's worth the extra work or extra expense to get my fats raw and so maybe others have the same concern....... hence the shared thoughts. It's nice that there is an easy alternative that fits your regime if someone wants to experiment with it.   

Offline lex_rooker

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1423 on: January 07, 2012, 11:54:00 am »
Dorothy,
First, no, my wife doesn't eat as I do.  She is Greek (born and raised in Greece in the mid 1940's) so food as a social thing is very important to her.  She suffers from diabetes, gall stones, very high triglycerides, cholesterol off the charts, blocked bile ducts (requiring medical intervention every couple of years), and rheumatoid arthritis that is slowly disfiguring the joints in her fingers.  She knows that she can control much of this with diet, but in her words "I eat what Greeks eat", and that's the end of that.  It is her life and she makes her choices just as I make my choices and we both must live with the consequences of our decisions.

We have a very high tech kitchen.  We cook on two $3,000 Gaggenau induction hobs.  We have a $7,000 Dacor convection oven and other nice toys.  We have a second full Bosh Stove in the garage (the "Dream Kitchen") as well as a second refrigerator and my freezer, which competes for space with my table saws, metal lathes, mills, and workbench etc.  Why all the kitchen stuff?  Well I'm famous for my Chocolate Chip, Coconut Macadamia Nut, and Oatmeal cookies and killer apple pies.  I've often baked 150 dozen cookies, and 30 apple pies over a weekend for charitable events.  I've also done dozens of wedding cakes, and my wife bakes bread regularly.  We host family gatherings several times per year and it is not unusual to have 50 people or more attend.  If we aren't hosting then another member of the family is (my wife has four sisters within a 30 minute drive or so, and yes, they have many of the same health problems as my wife), and all share cooking duties.  In short, even though I don't cook anything I eat, or eat anything I bake, our kitchen gets lots of use.  I'll be making a Pistachio Chocolate Swirl cake for my daughter's mother-in-law's birthday on Sunday. 

I don't recommend that anyone be as strict as I am.  I do so because of my age, my previous vegan lifestyle, and the health problems I created for myself.  For most people I recommend that they eat mostly red meat and fat, drink mainly water, and choose one or two of the following each day:  a small serving of vegetable, small salad, piece of fruit, or a small serving of a starchy root vegetable.  There is certainly no magic in Zero Carb and I'm not even sure Zero Carb is desirable or necessary for most people, and that includes me.  I just continue with it because it is working well for me at this time and it is simple and convenient.  I assure you that if I start to see problems of any kind I'll take my own advice and add in a few veggies, small salad, bit of fruit or the occasional starchy root.  If/when this occurs, I'll dutifully report it here.

As for Slankers high fat ground beef, I order it on occasion and find that it consistently measures out at about 18% fat which is still a little low.  Yes, I know that they say it is 22% but they don't actually test it.  They just add about 20 lbs of fat to every 100 lbs of lean meat and assume it will come in around 22%.  This is very simple to do at the packing house as it requires no skill or fancy measurements.  Here's how the numbers work out:

100 lbs of lean meat containing about 2% fat which is 2 lbs of actual fat.
add in 20 lbs of fat and your total weight is now 120 lbs.

Take the 22 lbs of fat (20 lbs you added and 2 lbs that were in the lean meat) and divide it by the total weight of 120 lbs and you end up with 18.3% fat by weight.  Surprise! this is almost exactly what I measure when I test it.

With the pet food coming it at 16-17% fat,  it is clear that I still have to add a good bit of fat to get to my normal average of about 25%.  If I'm going to have to add fat any way, why pay $5/lb for some of it just because they add it to the ground meat at the packing plant.  I may as well just purchase cheaper fat and add all the fat myself.  By saving that $1 per day, at the end of the month I have $30.  I can purchase about 30 lbs of local fat with $30 which, when combined with Slankers normal ground beef and pet food, is enough fat to meet my dietary needs for about 3 months.  This means that by April, my savings have paid for all the fat I will need for the entire year.

Lex
« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 12:00:42 pm by lex_rooker »

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Lex's Journal
« Reply #1424 on: January 07, 2012, 02:05:19 pm »
Well - isn't it just sad that when they say 30% fat it doesn't mean 30% fat at all? So much for that idea!  l)  If you have to add fat then of course why bother paying extra? How do you measure the fat content Lex? It sounded so easy that it could be worth it - but so much for truth in advertising.  ;) I guess if someone is going to imitate you they must either render fat or add raw suet because there are no options with enough fat added to the ground meat and there's not enough in the pet food. I bet there is more fat in the primal though because of it's extremely high organ meat content. Did you measure the fat content of the primal blend by any chance?

That's some story about your kitchens and all your cooking Lex! I don't think I could do what you do. My kitchen is much more simple and geared towards my raw food tendencies. I had a counter put lower so that it would be easier to use my juicers and food processors and such and I have a warming drawer instead of a microwave. It still has all the basic cooking abilities - but I also have an adjacent room for my dehydrators, ferments,  tinctures and all that raw jazz. I do quite well with a very high percentage of vegetable, fruit and seed matter and can make some pretty yummy desert things - but I don't think I could do what you do making regular cookies and cakes for people. That takes some serious will power! Raw halvah, pies, raw healthy cookies etc. fine .. but those work for me so they are easy to share. It never ceases to amaze me how people can choose eating habits over being free of serious diseases.... but I've seen it so many times that I don't doubt what you say about your wife. We certainly do have to make our own choices and let others make their own choices and even when we decide to do the right thing for ourselves we have to figure out what that is! Kudos to you for figuring it out.  I have to admit that it's hard for me to witness people blowing up though. I still get sad when I watch family member suffer and die because they refuse to change even when the information is so close to them. At this age - it's happening way too often for comfort. Sigh. You do what you can right? Your journal reaches the WILLING.... and that's the first step..... willingness to try. Social and family pressures along with taboos is the first hurdle. Many equate food with culture. I eat like a Greek. I guess one could replace that with I eat like an American or I eat like whatever my family or friends eat like. Your maverick nature and example Lex might not have been able to break through to your wife's sense of self as connected to food, but sure seems to have influenced many others to try to help themselves. Your example of having the will to turn from those cookies even though they taste good to you and are right there and your family is eating them makes you into a model for others to attempt to emulate. I will imagine you in my mind's eye in your workshop with the smell of fresh cookies and you sticking to your guns the next time I have a tough food temptation in front of me.


 

 

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