Author Topic: Round 2: From addiction to recovery  (Read 73110 times)

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Offline Paleo Donk

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Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« on: December 18, 2009, 06:35:20 am »
Here’s my story- I put the cliff notes at the bottom if you want to skip down

I'm not entirely ready to start my journey again but want to get my thoughts out in the open so here I go. I recently finished a 30 day stay at a rehab for gambling and alcohol and have temporarily moved in with some relatives to get away from my old ways for the time being as a half-way house of sorts. I am not sure how long I will be here but I am committed to recovery and will likely stay until I have found a job or other suitable living conditions where I can more effectively live my life.

I was playing poker professionally which was working out well for the most part financially but unfortunately I could not handle the constant stress and the horrific gut-wrenching pain that necessarily came with losing.  I can get into more details if anyone cares and probably will in the future. For now I just want to put myself in position to feel good again.

I began changing my diet a year ago last August after I haphazardly decided to read GCBC, which turned out to be one of the best things I had ever done. Nearly every single aspect of my life changed for the better and I can't extend enough gratitude to Gary Taubes for writing the book.

Ever since I was 13-14, I began to feel tired, unmotivated and slowly more depressed. I had some good years at the end of college where I came out of my introverted self a bit and cracked my insecure shell but this seemed to vanish when I went to grad school. Grad school was one of the worst parts of my life and where my depression really got a hold of me. It seemed like I was tired every day and constantly had no energy for anything that I wanted to do. I played sports all my life and found myself gasping for air nearly every time I played well before anyone would need a break. I’ve never been overweight my entire life.
Everyone would tell me how lazy I was and I was told constantly how tired I looked. I really believed I was just lazy and had to will myself to achieve more. During grad school I went to see several doctors, none of whom impressed me and several of which gave me diagnoses that were completely opposite from the last. I did 2 sleep studies, which for the first supposedly said I had sleep apnea though I never met with the physician who diagnosed me. I went to three different ear, nose and throat doctors whom two told me I didn’t have sleep apnea and one said I did. I went to a cardiologist and did a stress test which didn’t do much and then finally to a pulmonologist who said I should see a psychiatrist. It never occurred to me that I might be depressed during this time. I had been complaining about lack of energy to doctors of years now with nothing good ever coming from it.

With my degree being in statistics I was increasing more upset at the way the medical professionals were handling me. I couldn’t understand how they could treat me or give me proper diagnoses by talking to me for at most 10 minutes and then taking a few blood tests.  At the time I thought how I would never ever treat my patients like they did to me.

Not once did a doctor tell me to give up sweets or juices or even mention diet in the first place. I had no idea that diet played a role in anything. I suppose you could argue that it should be obvious but when everyone else is eating whatever they want and have seemingly endless amounts of energy even, much more so than me, even my 80+ year old grandma then you don’t really think about these things.

The pain from being so tired during the day and not being able to sleep is truly infuriating. I found relief when a friend of mine gave me some adderall one night. I felt alive for the first time post elementary school. The euphoria and energy running through my body was unbelievably amazing. I didn’t know a human could feel so good. I didn’t want to have another day without this glorious feeling. I felt complete; my body ran extremely well on it.

The effects, of course, were temporary and I would only take it at night but I made sure not to take it to many nights in a row as to not form a tolerance or get an addiction.

I started to taking some anti-depressants as time went on which helped a bit but never stayed on them.  It wasn’t till last August 2008, 2 full years after I completed grad school that I read GCBC. The book made such an enormous impression on me that I changed my diet immediately. Steak had always been my favorite food, especially the rim fat and so I was excited that I had a chance to eat it all the time. Before changing, I also cannot remember having much if any solid stools over the past 5 years. They were also extremely painful at times and I bled often. I had also begun urinating more frequently as well. By the end of the first week of VLC, I was having solid stools again and energy was soaring. Also the multiple headaches I was getting every week completely vanished as well. Luckily, I had little to no transitional symptoms, except for a small craving for carbs which went away for the most part after the first couple weeks. I attribute this mainly to my youth being 27 when I started the diet.

I kept the diet up, though I would still drink heavily on occasion about every couple weeks. I did manage at the beginning to go out several times with my drinking friends and not buy one drink. This had never happened in the past 6 years or so since I had been hitting the bars. My confidence was soaring as well and I even managed to pick up a girl completely sober for the first time.

Unfortunately the pattern of drinking to excess on occasion turned to drinking several times during the week, which led to breaking my diet more and more and eventually to a full blown “relapse”.  I see this relapse as no different as any other drug or process addiction relapse.  I continued my drinking binge all the way until rehab last month. I was looking for an excuse to stop drinking but couldn’t stop myself from drinking. I was having too much fun and could not stop on my own.

Even though I continued to eat mainly meat my energy levels and mood began decreasing and became near unmanageable when I went to Europe for 7 weeks this past July and August when I ate lots of carbs.  The rehab facility wouldn’t allow for outside food to be brought in so I had eat their food which tasted great but was quite carby as well, but I was away from poker and alcohol so my mood improved a decent amount while I was there.

Now, I’m out and free and able to have the freedom to eat what I want and am slowly easing my way back into my diet.  I began my journey last year eating fully cooked grain-fed meats along with eggs, cheeses, occasional yogurts, home-made ice creams and a few veggies and fruits now and then. I slowly started eating more and more raw and when I found this site I tried to eat raw as much as possible.  I followed the zc forum for a while but had lots of issues with the mentality though I agreed with almost all their dietary information and am very thankful for this site which seems to have much more in-depth information on many more issues.

I am interested in becoming as healthy as I can through all means not just diet even though diet probably composes >80 percent of this. Even though I like to think myself as objective and willing to be as unbiased and as open as I can, I really want this diet to work and have some serious emotional attachment to it since it pretty much saved my life. I love reading the threads here and getting as much information as I can about how I can improve myself and hopefully will be starting to implement several of these things as possible when I get more settled in. I really respect the posters here and enjoy the open discussions and look forward to participating and learning along with everyone else.

So, here I am – 28 year old male 5’11 about 188. I do enjoy lifting weights and since I plan on eventually moving down to no vegetation, I will want to test whether or not I can play high intensity sports like soccer/basketball. I ate a couple pounds of raw grain-fed beef the yesterday and will have about the same amount today. I am having trouble asserting myself to the people I am staying with about the way I feel about food and consequently have eaten a decent amount of cooked carbs the last week with horrible results. I get so tired so quickly it’s unreal.  



Cliff notes

Since 13 I have begun to feel more and more tired leading me to being very depressed and along the way accumulated numerous other smaller health problems. Last year after reading GCBC I changed my diet which completely reinvigorated me into someone that finally felt human. Unfortunately I still drank which lead to a “relapse” where I was feeling very tired again with decreasing health. Now, after spending a month in rehab I’m ready to embark on my journey again to good health.


Comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated-thanks:)

Offline phatdave

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2009, 07:09:19 am »
Hi :)

(i really enjoyed reading your story, thanks for sharing :) )
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 07:20:08 am by phatdave »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2009, 08:52:29 am »
Good luck to you on your journey to good health, PaleoDonk.

One thing I find to be beneficial for healthy living in addition to good nutrition, sunshine (when it's available) and exercise is upbeat music with positive lyrics and chatting with positive friends who smile and laugh and also like to enjoy the simple, positive things of life instead of processed carbs, excessive booze or drugs, complaining, negative gossip, etc. If our ancestors could be happy for 2.5 million years without booze and processed stimulants then I think we can manage it too.  

I could be imagining it, but it seems like as I act more and more positive, the people around me do too. It seems to be a bit contagious. Some of it is probably because a number of them have gone all or partly Paleo too.

Positive vibes,
PaleoPhil
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline wodgina

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2009, 09:33:51 am »
I enjoyed reading your story as well. It's an easy path to fall down, especially when youv've put in your all and your still sooo tired and sick.

I started at 27 also.

“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

William

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2009, 02:15:49 pm »
Some words of wisdom here that you might enjoy reading:
http://activenocarber.myfreeforum.org/Bear_s_Words_Of_Wisdom_about22.html

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2009, 06:08:48 pm »
1 thing:- I notice you haven't mentioned grassfed meat anywhere in that post. In case you have some unnatural fear of PUFAs(some cooked zero-carbers do), I should add that PUFAs/omega-3s are essential for helping rebuild the brain and eating grainfed meats, even if raw, is really not a good idea in the long run, healthwise. of course, you may just have a problem re ordering grassfed meats in your particular area for whatever reason.
"What is the point of growing up If you can't be childish sometimes..." - Tom Baker as Dr Who.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2009, 09:41:16 pm »
Thanks all for the support and kind words. I get very excited when I come here and start thinking about how my life is going to change again when I fully implement my diet - sort of like a rush - but once I step away from the computer I lose focus and have trouble implementing the diet, mainly because I am too scared to assert my self positively enough to others that this is the way that is going to work for me.

I am still quite fragile right now, at least my mind is. I've had an entire lifetime of training myself to be insecure, shy and self-depricating and have become very critical of myself with a perfectionist attitude while at the same time worrying entirely too much.

Essentially, my mind isn't clear and is jumbled and I'm having trouble focusing and staying in the present. "In the present" was one of those hot phrases in rehab that we'd hear multiple times a day.

I found this amazing post the other day in the spirituality forum that accurately describes me right now -http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/spirituality/opinions-humans-and-spirituality/msg7541/#msg7541

"When I speak of higher consciousness, I play around with ideas of consciousness vs subconsciousness.  If we were fully aware, fully awake, fully conscious individuals, there would be much less occurring subconsciously, it would rise to the level of full awareness in the now, in the present.  Instead we sacrifice the now to all forms of worry about the future, replaying of the past, lost in thought, lost in emotion, lost in everything but attentiveness to the only thing that actually exists: the present.  And since we sacrifice the present, we lose presence. "

I feel very disconnected with the presence at the time being. I'm even having trouble writing this post and have to constantly stop and rethink and then reword what I have just written. The good thing though, is that I've had great success with the diet before and felt very connected to the people around me and was the energetic, positive, creative, engaging, altruistic Teddy (thats my name) that I think is really me. I feel barely a shell of myself now.

Luckily, I have been surrounded by good people throughout my life. My mom is always looking for ways to help me improve and has gotten me several books which have greatly contributed to my recovery. The best is "The Anxiety and Phobia Workbook" - http://www.amazon.com/Anxiety-Phobia-Workbook-Fourth/dp/1572244135/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1261228912&sr=8-1

This book is basically a recipe book for beating anxiety and phobia. I really beleive in its methodologies which closely allign to my own on how to go about learning a subject matter.  It gives detailed plans on what is recommended to do every day for your particular "affliction".

What is recommended first and foremost is to find a method to relax. Deep abdominal breathing apparently has been clinacly shown to reduce anxiety if practiced over a certain time period. I try and do this everyday by finding a quiet place laying down flat, closing my eyes and concentrating on nothing. I think I feel calmer once I get to the 10 minute mark and usually aim for 20 minutes. They also recommend progressive muscle relaxation,vigorous exercise, yoga, meditation, etc..

Also, what I found interesting was that they have a section on nutrition with one of the opening lines saying something like "almost no anxiety books discuss nutrition...". The first thing they recommend is to cut out sugars and the like and caffeine, which really impressed me even though it shouldn't since it seems so blindingly obvious now, but still is applaudable since this one step can save people so much misery. It eventually recommends moving towards vegetarianism and believes in the alcaline/base theory (whatever that is). Apparently meat is more acidic.

Still, the book is great and the worksheets it has you do everyday are incredible in that they help you become aware of your thinking sooner and sooner. This seems to be the central idea, in that if we can recognize our thoughts and feelings as they happen we may be able to stop a particular (incorrect) belief or assumption from further infiltrating our minds and clogging it up. My personal beliefs and assumptions are so automatic now that I don't know I have actually made it. The neural pathways seem to be so deep that so well connected towards anxiety that its going to take a long time to rewire and reprogram them to healthy levels. Fortunately I have my diet which will hopefully expedite this process.

I have other books on anger and perfectionism that are great too, but will be concetrating mainly on the workbook for the time being. I haven't gone through it all yet.  I strongly believe that to recover I must treat myself everyday and work hard everyday. 30 days of rehab doing groupwork for 8 hours a day isn't enough. I know this probably sounds like I am putting pressure on myself to succeed but its something that I want to do and has worked in the past and so I want to do this in the future. This is probably why so many (perhaps 80%) of people relapse. They don't finish the program and work on themselves at home. They go from 8 hours of recovery work a day to 1 or 0.

William

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2009, 09:51:08 pm »
Some of the many benefits of eating raw zero carb are mental clarity, emotional stability and confidence.

You shall be pleasantly amazed at the difference.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2009, 10:13:33 pm »
My last post was getting uber-long and on other sites you get auto-signed out sometimes so the worrier got to me and I posted so to not lose it (though I had it copied anyway, ha).

Phil,

Thanks for the tips. I didn't think too much about the importance of sunshine until recently reading the forums here. The sun has always made me feel better and even as a child I would remember needing to go outside to "cure" my headaches. I'm rather dark (mediteranean blood) and so perhaps my sun requirement is slightly higher than normal. Its winter now but luckily I live in Houston, where there can be decent sun year round.

As for positivity, I completely agree, but still find it a challenge to be positive right now. It seems so much easier to be negative and my humor for the most part has been geared towards bringing down people, sometimes just to get a reaction. This is just another thing I need to try and catch in the moment before letting the thought spread.

Other things I plan on doing for health are walking barefoot as much as possible, defecating in the natural squat position, possibly sleeping on the floor (I've had some intense dreams when I tried this in the past) and hopefully more when I find out about them. Also will be doing my deep breathing daily as well as other realation techiniques.

Tyler,

I think grass fed meat is going to be much better in the long run than grain-fed. Its rather sad that the zc group seems to believe that the impact of grass vs grain is minimal at best. The true effects might not be seen for 20 or more years. It could easily be one of the reasons  the bear got cancer. I ordered 15 pounds of slankers ground beef in the past and will be ordering some soon again.

William,

Thanks for the link, I've actually read just about the entire bear thread as it originally was. The guy is the ultimate guru, though he never learned how to quote which was probably most surprising of all.


Also, Phil, I am going to repost here a post you made last month that should get some serious consideration for post of the year. You basically summarized my philosophy on what is taking place in modern society with respect to science. I've read "fooled by randomness" and have never agreed with someone so much and like you I don't really like it when I agree so completely but then again it was refreshing to see someone think very similarly to me, just quite a bit more elegant.

Quote
Over the years as I've investigated the derogatory claims of Moderners (among whom I don't include Tyler, though he has cited research, opinions, etc. from this school of thought--which I am grateful for, actually, because he has provided a very useful counterpoint to posit my speculations and ramblings up against without having to deal with the really harsh critics like PETA-type folks) about the Stone Agers and HGs in general I've found that most of them are based on false assumptions, fictions, and falsehoods. Manthropology is just the latest compilation of revelations about the fallacies of the Moderners, revealing that the abilities of even recent HGs were superior in multiple ways to moderners. The usual knee-jerk response is to engage in ad hominem and claim that the scientist or layman who reports these phenomena is just promoting the "noble savage myth" or longs for a primitive utopia.

What never gets mentioned is that the critics (and their claims that others cite) are sometimes influenced by a utopianism of their own, often unbenownst to them, that infected academia decades ago, which is a sort of Utopian Progressivism. It's dogma is endless progress, man as machine, and the perfectability of man. That which is new is considered "improved," and that which is old is assumed inferior unless widely publicized mountains of evidence make it impossible to ignore the obvious. The dogma of endless progress is far, far, far more common than noble savage mythology (how else explain the endless advancement of "new and improved" technologies, foods and drugs, almost without restraint?). It claims to be scientific, but much of it's original source material comes from fictional or misguided sources like Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes and it seems built on scientific reductionism and consensus. Assumptions are rarely questioned; instead, the same old fallacies (such as "the diet-acne connection is an old wives' tale") and faulty studies (such as the bogus 1960s study that claimed to refute the diet-acne connection) get cited over and over again ad nauseum and then Modernism's defenders point to the piles of rehashed articles and say "See, there is a scientific consensus backed by the weight of the evidence," when in reality it all teeters precariously on one or two bogus studies or maybe some snippets of 17th century philosophy.

"But wait a minute," you say. "Hobbes was a Monarchist, not a Progressive." True, but some of his concepts made an impression on the masses and were misinterpreted and reshaped over time (such as the "nasty, brutish, and short" quip, which Hobbes used to describe agrarian Englishmen, but which was transformed into an archetype of the HG) eventually infecting academia and the Progressives, deep into their psyches like an invasive cancer, probably setting science back several centuries. Plus, some Progressives replaced the despotism of monarchy with a new form of despotism: an all-knowing Mother Culture led by a cultural elite that sought to "help" the "savages" and "underclasses" by "civilizing" them.

Luckily, there have been and are reformers amongst the Progressives and the academics who have recognized where things went wrong and have been shedding light on this, such as Margaret Meade, Richard Leakey, Daniel Quinn, Jared Diamond, Art De Vany, Boyd Eaton, Loren Cordain, Michael and Mary Eades, and Nicholas Taleb. These and other academics, intellectuals and Progressives put various pieces of the puzzle back together that make up the ancient storehouse of knowledge and experience: man is not perfectible, everything new is not necessarily improved, many of the assumptions on which current scientific consensus is based are faulty, and beginning around 10 thousands years ago there was a "Great Forgetting," as Quinn called it, about ancient knowledge that we have only begun to re-learn within the past century or so.

Assumptions are being questioned, studies re-examined, paradigms shifted, and we are witnessing the dawn of a scientific revolution. I call it The Great Remembering.

"But hold on!" you say. "You did what you criticized others for doing--engaged in ad hominem about Progressives." Not all Progressives. Many would call me one, actually (others might claim I'm a Positivist or Libertarian--I don't think I fit neatly into any philosophical or political slot at present). Notice also that I didn't single any one out and was careful to explain that I'm not including Tyler in my critique. It was more of a general critique of the basic school of thought that seems to underlie the source materials that critics of RPD and HGs have relied upon, based on an impression I've garnered from years of watching Paleo dieters and advocates get attacked. Notice that I instead singled out some Progressives and likeminded academics for praise. I hope that I've managed to critique the message and its underlying underpinnings more than the messengers.

One thing I also try to remember is that all variations of Paleo diets, raw diets, and low carb diets are regarded as heresy worthy of ridicule by the powers that be. Based on their criticisms, they apparently regard us all as idiots or devils to be straightened out or silenced. So I try to remember not to criticize too harshly folks from similar ways of eating, but like a dumb, dumb I sometimes forget. So I apologize to any such I have offended in the past, and proactively apologize to the folks in the future I will likely also offend when I let my words get ahead of my brain.

For ten thousand years we have been blinded by The Great Forgetting. The Great Remembering has only just begun. Imagine what amazing revelations await.

Good luck and good eating.

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/hot-topics/are-we-meat-eaters-or-vegetarians/msg19668/#msg19668

Offline djr_81

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2009, 10:28:40 pm »
I'm not sure if I've welcomed you to the forum before but welcome none-the-less.  :)
It sounds like you've dealt with a lot but your intended course of action should help you heal immensely. Good luck with it.

I think grass fed meat is going to be much better in the long run than grain-fed. Its rather sad that the zc group seems to believe that the impact of grass vs grain is minimal at best. The true effects might not be seen for 20 or more years. It could easily be one of the reasons  the bear got cancer. I ordered 15 pounds of slankers ground beef in the past and will be ordering some soon again.

I definitely agree with you there. There are going to be a lot of ZCers having problems down the line due to it IMO. And it's a double whammy; the 3:6 ratio of fats as well as the concentrated toxins (antibiotics, etc.) in the fat of grainfed.
Luckily you're so close to Slankers that you'll be getting a great deal with the minimal shipping. :)
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2009, 04:26:51 am »


I feel very disconnected with the presence at the time being. I'm even having trouble writing this post and have to constantly stop and rethink and then reword what I have just written.

I have noticed that a high-fat diet, particularly high - Omega 3s, is very good for calming the mind.  Mineral supplements like bone meal and magnesium-rich healing clays are also very good for calming and focusing your attention.  Carbs and fruits are generally not good for calming your brain down, in my experience.

Offline jessica

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2009, 06:45:05 am »
. I am having trouble asserting myself to the people I am staying with about the way I feel about food and consequently have eaten a decent amount of cooked carbs the last week with horrible results. I get so tired so quickly it’s unreal. 

I am still quite fragile right now, at least my mind is. I've had an entire lifetime of training myself to be insecure, shy and self-depricating and have become very critical of myself with a perfectionist attitude while at the same time worrying entirely too much.

hey i am glad to here that you are starting to take care of yourself, but these two quotes really stuck out to me.
i think you need to explain to the people you are living with that what you are doing (raw paleo) is in the best interest for your mental and physical health right now, if it is easier to think about it as having a cold or "the flu" and increasing ones intake of chicken soup, it may be only temporary but it is ideal to assist the bodies healing functions.
i too have dealt with these thoughts as well as severe anxiety and phobia, raw meat and low carbs is the most calming diet i have found.  i have also spent a lot of time really LISTENING to my body and noticed whenever anxiety or panic came about if i went out and RAN or did jumping jacks til the anxiety passed that helped a lot, and once i started getting into the spiritual aspects of why we have these emotions i read that budhists, shaman etc...will call those emotions just misplaced energy.  so really you have to be truthful and caring with yourself and who you really are and what you really want to do, and those emotions will have no opportunity to sneak into your life...this book helped me a lot to get past that and my perfectionist tendencies http://www.radicalhonesty.com/

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2009, 09:48:18 pm »
ck and others,

I know very little of bone meal and healing clays and don't recall much discussion on them here, but I am willing to look at pretty much anything to help me out so thanks. Right now, I am going to focus on simply changing my diet and working my anxiety book daily. I have a type of perfectionist attitude that is constantly worrying about employing enough methods the right way for anything to work. This usually stops me from even attempting to get involved or even started on a project as it seems so overwhelming and so focusing on just doing a couple things right a day is my main goal right now.

J,

I am also trying to listen to my mind as much as possible so that I can break down the thoughts and feelings that have convoluted my actions so much so in the past. Removing poker and alcohol have brought on a great deal of clarity and I'm more easily able to detect the channels of thought developing and thus am starting to develop strategies (thanks to the book) to counter the negative and illogical conclusions with more reasoned and realistic ones. The socratic method of questioning goes a long way here.

I'm glad you brought that radical honesty website up. In rehab, we called it "rigorous honesty", where it was vitally important to the group's progress to speak up when you saw something go astray. For me this is especially true and where lots of my anger comes from. I withold my true feelings quite a bit and get worried about what people think of me and this consequently has me thinking in my head about the past much more than I would like. Drugs like adderal remove the bariers in my mind quite rapidly and I'm able to function as well as I would like. Going zc last year did just about the same thing which was fantastic. I love the feeling of being able to speak freely and not worry about what I have to say. I'm slowly getting better and yesterday I had a great convesation over the phone where I was in good form connecting very well throughout. This is hopefully going to be a central theme in my journal, being rigorously honest with myself and to this forum.

Offline jessica

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2009, 06:37:26 am »
I love the feeling of being able to speak freely and not worry about what I have to say. I'm slowly getting better and yesterday I had a great convesation over the phone where I was in good form connecting very well throughout. This is hopefully going to be a central theme in my journal, being rigorously honest with myself and to this forum.

that is awesome! i hope you continue to improve in this area.  for me it was a huge step to accept myself for who i really am, with all of my "faults", and to realize i didnt really want to live up to anyone else's standards because those were ridiculous anyway and that my own were pretty righteous.  if something was going to be detrimental to my well being just to "save face" or be "normal" it definitely wasn't worth it, you know?  kind of a fuck you guys im just trying to be healthy/happy attitude, at first i felt really bizarre/selfish but as my mental and physical health improved i knew it was due in large part to honesty!  it has lead to MUCH happiness and peace and even though that 'tude seems pretty self-righteous/off-putting it has put me in better grace with the universe :)  i still have to try everyday to remind myself of these lessons but it definitely gets easier, i hope it does for you as well:)

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2009, 01:04:36 am »
My fragile mind is still working hard to keep its defenses up. I've attempted to describe how my inner workings but have yet to delve into many specifics. Yesterday, I was involved in a thread that put me in a rather excited emotional state which I will describe below and hopefully show how quickly I can disconnect from reality. These are my feelings and thoughts as they are. My mood swings are still rather vicious and I can go range from over-inflated self-confidence to wild insecurity in a short time frame.  

This also goes well with being rigorously honest as I've posted above. I will try very hard to focus on my thoughts and my feelings and avoid verbal abuse. The comment was made my William but the comments I make below are solely for me not for him.



Ha! You became temporarily sane.


This one remark infurtiated me instantaneously. The pain from being outright told that I am wrong and this case implied that I had insane thinking deeply hurt. I don't acutally exaggerate my feelings (or at least I try hard not to) but do use other methods such as filtering out the positive remarks to focus on the sole negative ones to ensure that the critic/perfectionist in me has been fed.

I also feel quite worthless when I'm put down like this. It feels like everything I wrote is completely wrong and useless.  Ever since reading through my anger book last year I try and not directly put people on the defensive, which is how I felt this comment to be about. It seemed like a jab for nonthing else but to make me feel bad about what I've said. I try hard to never make an argument like this and if I disagree with someone I at least like to point out parts of the post I agree with first before making my point. And when making a point I would like to think that I am not attacking either but simply asserting myself properly.  If you guys have noticed, PPhil makes his arguments like this, which I greatly respect him for. I've never seen him outright put down anyone down even after hes been personally attacked.

My insecure mind wants to fight back so badly and make a vicious, brutal, mostly ad-hominen attack saying how much better I am at everything. Yes, that will show'em. Message boards have generally been a source of anger for me. They are night and day compared to real life and something I have yet to come to terms with. My friends and I jab each other all the time but it seems so different here. The posts are so permanent.

I love reading threads, spend countless hours rumaging through them, but rarely post. It seems like the few times I post I get offended quickly. I expect people to be nicer and I expect people to enjoy what I post. In the past I've mulled over things on different message boards for days, sometimes weeks at a time after the posts have been made. I couldn't get over how defeated I felt. It felt like it was just a game to see who could make me feel the worst. I hope the reason we post is to uplift the community to a better and brighter understanding of the world around us not to get pleasure from belittling others.

So, those are kind of my rambling thoughts that spur out of control quickly when I feel a perceived threat. Now to break them down. Since I automatically filter out good comments, I did so immediately because the poster below stated that he agreed with what I said. This should give me evidence that not everyone will think I am insane. I also stated that this was a "crack-pot" theory so expecting not to have everyone agree is very unreasonable.

Its also a reasonable expectation to know that on message boards people will not have the same philosophy about how and why to post as mine.  The detection of tone is not easily apparent and the entire meaning of the post could change because of a lack of this. This is an online message board after all and perhaps I am taking things too serious.

Even if I continue to have my posts put down in the future, I am by no means irrevocably damaged. Virtually no one treats me like they do on message boards in real life. Its also helpful for me to examine what I wrote to see if I can get my points across in a way which promotes more healthy discussion rather than inviting anger which I was probably good at in the past.

I am confidnt that I would more appropriately handle my emotions if a discussion similar to this were to take place in real life where I could look the person in the eye and have a much better perception on the situation. The unknown factors and the distant feel of the communication make it hard for me to contain my anxiety for now.

So these are my immediate thoughts. After I left the computer I started feeling better quickly but while sitting in front reading, the waterfall of emotions hit me hard rendering me trapped in my emotions.

I'd appreciate any constructive criticism.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 01:11:13 am by Paleo Donk »

William

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2009, 03:08:43 am »

This one remark infuriated me instantaneously. The pain from being outright told that I am wrong and this case implied that I had insane thinking deeply hurt.

Please accept my heartfelt apology, and my admiration for daring to respond honestly.

My comment was intended as a humorous comment on the state of Man, after reading the opinion of the wise to the effect that we live in a sick society. No exceptions, as all of us are born into a wold of lies, and absorb them willy nilly. Not our fault either. I had thought that this was well known, and evidently I erred.
(note how I sneakily avoided writing that I was wrong - saving face while telling the truth). I am also fond of whimsy, and think it possible while still telling the truth.

Maybe not, after reading the radical honesty website, which I think is a scam. Honesty can get us jailed (Ernst Zundel) or killed (Karen Silkwood, Rachel Corrie, Jesus Christ), so those common little white lies make social life safer.

I could write much more, like that no man is an island, we are hormone-driven and necessarily women command some of the resulting controls of our emotions, few ever really become masters our ourselves blah blah. But I hope you get the point from the foregoing, that this is how I see the world, and not a reflection on you.


I see this website as something approaching an island of sanity in an unsane world.



Offline MrBBQ

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2009, 07:36:29 am »
Having a mental position to defend (that of the ego) arises from a false sense of self (as divided from everything else) - namely, the ego's perpetuation either from pleasure or pain. The ego as a pathological entity in evolving consciousness feeds either on pleasure or pain - ultimately division/conflict. Transcend the ego and realise that it's not you - the true self is the quieter voice, which you can allow to arise simply by observing the ego's monologues/dialogues/trialogues in a non-judgemental manner (that way, you're observing as a separate consciousness to the ego modality).

The ego dies when there is no conflict/division, so as soon as there is no mental position to defend, the true consciousness has become manifest (transcending the ego, or the "little me").

Where ego consciousness takes offence (seeks further conflict), the transcended consciousness merely laughs (of course, there could be no other reaction).

With this kind of evolved consciousness, actions like "taking offence" become completely futile and ultimately constitute a resistance of reality as it unfolds/manifests. Better to be the playful consciousness, like most children up to a certain age ('til the point of becoming jaded)...
When hungry eat, when tired sleep - this is the essence of Zen...

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2009, 08:17:06 am »
... I am also fond of whimsy, and think it possible while still telling the truth.
...
Yes, I can attest to William's style, which is different from the ordinary. I recommend patiently giving yourself time to get used to his style, for like a fine wine, the results will be worth the investment. I'm quite sure that he didn't mean any harm.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2009, 10:05:12 am »
William,

I very much appreciate the apology and subsequent further details of your character. I have read a lot of what you posted previously and have admired your intellect, reasoning and humor as an observer. Unfortunately I am still sensitive to percieved threats and put up my walls very quick. When the walls are up, I become vulnerable and have a hard time managing my emotions.

I had some sort of breakthrough today that I think can help explain my thinking. I am back at home in Texas now, spending time at my parents house before heading off to Florida to help work at my aunt's school. Since giving up poker, I have resumed my research into paleo dieting taking up quite a bit of the time that I had invested in poker. My dad came up to me in the middle of some blog reading to remind me about needing to go to a gambling anonymous meeting tonight. I immediately flipped out and told him no several times while trying to remain concious to the screen.  I got angry very fast, panicking as well and assuring him I would take no part of it.

Luckily, a good friend of mine called, which gave me a chance to talk things through. At first I didn't even want to talk to her and was getting annoyed but then I somehow realized that I needed to get away from the computer for there to be a fair conversation between us. As soon as I left the hot seat I felt my body start to calm down. I was still very angry but having the opportunity to concentrate solely on my feelings instead of both them and the blog made them much easier to deal with

I surmised that the research I was doing was very similar to that of the poker playing. I was almost addicted to feeding my brain with more and more research. The computer was mine and my dad was intruding my space. I was attached to my research, much like a dog is to his bone, I had no intentions of letting go. When my dad lectured me on needing to go to the GA meeting(which I atually ended up going to) I percieved this as a threat to my existence and countered with what I have always done, and that is to get angry.

Through my reading and rehab experience, it seems that there are certain channels in my brain that will automatically move my thoughts to final outcomes. Its as if I am preprogrammed to move down a conveyer belt without any chance of being able to turn around.  The rational part of my brain is shut off from getting involved and so I continually get shuttled down the same path. There was no inbetween for me. I've conditioned myself to remain quiet, not speaking up for myself until its too late and then I respond with anger. I never spoke up as a child, rarely being assertive, holding back my true opinions even if that meant I was being hurt. I didn't let myself have much rights as a human. I don't have another outlet or option right now.

Hopefully, I can train myself from here to be better able to observe these channels of thought and respond to them more positively. I had a great, eloquent conversation with my friend and was proud of my logical connections that I made and feel more confident about the future. I know I will catch myself with my reptilian brain taking over leading me to anger but I should be able to deal with it easier.

BBQ,

Great post, and this exactly what I am trying to do - observe/transcend my ego and observe it with the more logical, rational parts of my brain. And yes I feel my concious evolving and improving, especially tonight.

Also, I have began to more stringely implement a diet. I've only had one piece of kiwi today to go with a large strip steak, a couple eggs and some cheese. Not sure how close I will go to 0 carbs but it should average under 50g day and most likely will go to 0. I will move to grass-fed beef at the beginning of the new year.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 10:12:18 am by Paleo Donk »

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2009, 04:19:18 am »
I mentioned in my opening post that I enjoyed lifting weights. One of my goals is to become as functionally strong as possible. This definitely isn't necessary or even recommended for good health but it's something I can see myself working at to get better all the time and I have lots of fun doing it. I do not lift like bodybuilders and think their programs are mostly a waste of time.

I lift mainly according to the methods found in Starting Strength written by Mark Rippetoe. The easiest way to describe this book is to compare it to GCBC. Though far from perfect, it lays down a great foundation for forming usable, functional strengthm just as GCBC can lead you down a path to try low-carb. The workout program is simple - only about 5-6 barbell exercises (the author does not endorse machines at all) done 3 times a week, doing just 3 of the exercises each workout. Almost no one at commercial gyms works out like this, though there is a mountain of evidence in favor of it. Somewhat similar to how most people have no clue about paleo type eating.

This is what I did today

12/24


Overhead standing dumbbell press

40x6 (80 pounds total)
50x6
60x6
65x6 - this is a personal best, I didn't train dbs much for the press in the past

heres a decent vid here- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmUf5-eseWo



Front squat

some bar work
5x95
5x135
5x155

good vid here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkK9-mnDAy4

Standing Dumbbell rows

6x30
6x45
6x25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkb_YA8U4r0

I did the starting strength program from September to January last year when I was VLC and gained quite a bit a strength with my final numbers being

Bench db - 5x110
Bench bb - 5x255
Olympic back Squat - 5x295
Deadlift - 1x415
Overhead press - 5x150

In february started training the olympic lifts, the snatch and clean and jerk with a coach. I thought this was the ultimate test of strength and had the best carryover to conventional sports which I also wanted to excel at.  I had hoped to compete in the Texas weighlifting championship which is held every January. My progress had been very steady from starting strength (SS) and I assumed this would carry over to the olympic lifts. I lifted three times a week with my coach and while progress seemed decent at first it came to a grinding halt within a couple months. During SS I only worked out once every 3 days at my own pace for only 30-40 minutes with lots of rest.

With my coach the intensity was turned up several notches. My body wasn't used to the volume. I also couldn't preform my own SS workouts because I was so sore from Oly lifting. I was also not lifting properly - oly lifts are hard to execute properly- and my shoulders seemed overworked and overstressed. After a while it started being painful lifting everyday items such as gallon of milk.

I started drinking heavily during this time and eating more and more carbs, though I still ate tons of meat. I surmised that I couldn't get nearly enough rest with this new workout regimen. Unfortunately it took me 4 months to realize this. I also hypothesized that my very low carb diet could be the culprit for me not being able to recover by replenishing glycogen stores as necessary. I think other folks have reported a slower recovery pattern when lifting weights. Thus from here on out I will mainly adhere to my 2 day a week workout. I will still train the olympic lifts but perhaps only once every couple weeks. My SS routine started up again last month and the gains have come nicely and I will continue to update my progress here.

Also, Day 2 of very low cooked carb is going well. No real cravings as of yet and good energy.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2009, 04:26:28 am by Paleo Donk »

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2009, 03:42:30 am »
Its now Day 5 of Round 2 and thus far I am not experiencing much if any noticeable symptoms of ketosis. I did crave sweets a bit yestserday and made some of the bears zc ice cream which was excellent to alleviate the craving. I've had less than 20g of carbs the last few days eating only small amounts of olives and pomergranite. I don't plan on having that much dairy but as I'm transitioning I will continue to be fairly lax. I want to stay as close to carnivorous as possible for now - possibly add significant fruit/veg in the spring.

I bought several pounds of grass-fed beef at a local farmers market yesterday and just seared the outside for a couple minutes. I still enjoy cooked meat more right now, though I expect my tastes to change over time. Right now I just crushed about a pound of raw supermarket chuck. Its rather flavorless but something about it feels so good to eat. I also bought some liver and will be eating it tonight.

I went to the gym and had a great workout, this despite being right in the middle of the transitional period where energy is supposed to be at its lowest. Going VLC last year along with continually eating lots of meat the rest of the year surely must have helped me re-transition much smoother.

Bench BB
135x10
185x8
205x6
225x6
225x6


Deadlift

5x135
5x205
4x275 - I was going to stop here but I had a huge surge of energy and these felt really easy so added some more
4x325

325 felt great as well and I couldn't be more pleased. My grip had failed me a couple weeks ago at 285 but I was working with a different bar and made sure to get a very solid grip and went at it and nailed it.

Pullups
BW(body weight)x5x2

Was a bit tired after deadlifting and so took it easy here

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2009, 11:19:13 am »
Its day 8, with the last three days being carnivorous except for a couple pieces of cheese. I feel pretty decent, though do not have the same euphoria that I remembered getting around this time like I did the first time through. Perhaps it was a bit later. I have some moderate cravings for fruit, but I really want to give an all raw animal diet a go for a few months first. I absolutely love fruit and could eat all day long if it was around me .

Today, I've had only one meal around 1.5 pounds of raw grass-fed "stew" meat about 8 hour after I woke up. It was precut and fairly easy to get down. It was fairly lean so I might need to get a hold of some fattier cuts soon. The meat was bought from Georgias Texas grassfed beef. Its about 25% more expensive than slankers and found here - http://www.txgrassfedbeef.com/

I've learned to deal with my hunger and can fight through the minor cravings pretty well now. When I was backpacking through Italy this summer, I would routinely go 15-20 hours without eating, even on a high-carb diet.

I also got in a decent workout. My plan right now is to go every third day. I've gotten the best results in the past going at this pace.

Overhead standing press
6x95
6x115
6x135
5x135

Hang Power Cleans
bar work
3x95
3x135
2x155
1x175
1x185
1x195
1x205

pull ups
8xbw
4xbw+20
3xbw+35

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2010, 05:19:27 am »
It's been a little over 2 weeks now of mainly zero-carb and for the most part its been a rather up and down experience the last week. The main thing I want is energy. The last several years of my life have left me completely lethargic to the point where nothing really matters. I am very slow to thought and speak. It takes forever for me to get a point across and I get lost in my sentences all the time.

This stuff cleared up quite a bit in 2008 when I went VLC and completed an anger management book several times at the same time. As of now, it seems the that the best way to having the energy I want is to read my and work out of my anxiety book every day. I still feel heavy brain fog and was hoping this would all vanish rather quickly once I changed my diet. Its only been 16 days but for some reason I remember feeling better much quicker the last time I was on my diet.

I've had moments of what I feel my true self to be but still have hours of emptiness where my mind feels so rigid and unable to work as it was intended. These posts seem to take me ages to write. I am still confident though that training myself with my books will work very well as I have yet to implement the program like it was designed.

The last 4 days I have eaten almost no cooked foods, mainly eating around 1.5 pounds of super market beef a day. Today I had a huge t-bone, with the smaller side being one of my favorites. I find the rim fat very hard to eat and had a huge disgusting glob (size of a plum) of it in my mouth for at least 45 minutes. It didn't actually taste bad, just was annoying to have to spend that much time chewing it. The only way to eat was to tear very small chunks of it off at a time so I wouldn't choke. I've had other pieces of fairly large raw unchewed fat that went down very quickly. Perhaps I got too much of it together at once and it all coagulated.

This is probably not enough considering my weight and lifting goals but I don't feel like eating more. I do feel like eating some carbs though, but I am going to hold off for now, though a salad with feta cheese sounds mighty good.

I ordered about 20 pounds of beef and lamb from slankers that should be getting here on monday. I've tried raw ground beef from slankers before but did not like the taste that much and so got several different cuts. I am a little worried that since Slankers is 20-50% cheaper than the other grass-fed meats online that its really not grass-fed. I suppose I could take a road trip up there some time.


Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2010, 05:28:26 am »
I also lifted a couple times

1/2/2010

Bench db
100x6 (200 lbs total)
100x4

Olympic squat - bar position on deltoids, hamstrings touch calves
135x5
185x2
225x5x2

My left knee has been giving me problems in the past so I'm taking it a little easy here

1/6/2010

Overhead db press
40x5
50x3
60x2
70x5 PR!
70x2

PR= personal record  These went well though I had the least amount of energy at the gym so far.

Deadlift
5x135
3x225
1x275
3x345

Last week I felt very strong when I did 325 so I thought 345 would be doable. This was a mistake, and I should followed with my plan on increasing weights minamally especially now. I got greedy and went for it. Even though I was 1 rep shy, my form was trrible and my grip was slipping badly.

Power Cleans
worked up to
1 x 215

PR here is 225 although there is no need to go heavy here as form is very critical.

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2010, 09:03:36 am »
I am feeling a bit better today but still have significant mood swings.  It appears that my mood is heavily influenced by whether or not I actively work on myself to get over my depression and anxiety. The diet alone, at this stage, is not really giving me clarity of mind or extra energy like it did last year. I find myself quickly falling into my insecure thinking over and over. I still experience heavy brain fog and slow thinking. This more or less goes away if I use my workbook and meditate. From the outside, the solution to feeling better seems pretty easy but it isn't. I rarely have a drive to start my workbook or my meditations.  Its a real struggle to get started but once I do in about 10 minutes the initial sluggishness wears off and I can work for a good amount of time and I always feel better after. Its just that it seems that I must do something everyday or my struggles continue.

I went to the gym today adhering to my once every third day routine and had a great workout with good energy.

1/09

Bench bb
135x8
185x4
205x3
225x2
235x5
240x5

Two months ago I was benching 205 so I've moved up 35 pounds here, still 15 pounds away from my pr.

Hang Power Snatches

lots of bar work
65x3
95x2
115x1
125x1
135x1
140x1  PR

These are fairly fun to do since you get to throw weights up violently over your head.

Front Squat
45x10x2
135x3
45x25

My left knee has been bothering me for quite some time when I squat and I didn't feel quite right at 135 so I backed off. I read somewhere that doing very high reps with light weights can help rehabilitate injuries so thats why the absurd volume is in there.

 

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