Author Topic: Round 2: From addiction to recovery  (Read 77457 times)

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Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #75 on: January 24, 2010, 01:22:22 am »
Thanks for the thoughts lvl. I'm not sure I can keep my diet to myself. I'm not even sure I know what that means. I've been keeping so many of my thoughts to myself over the course of my life and feeling guilty later about not speaking up that I'm tired of doing that. I feel so free when I calmly and assertively tell people who I am and what I'm doing or what I feel like or just whats on my mind. I feel like I've been extraordinarily weak in this regard in the past and its really kept me anxious and fearful. I can't simply just live keeping my thoughts hidden.

I'm simply not going to lie and give someone an excuse for not eating. This to me is torture. I have the right to be healthier than they are. I really hate hiding information and feel this is one reason so many people are so sick right now. It'd be so easy if were all just honest and upfront with the truth.

I realize there are going to be some boundaries and those I will not cross. I am not going to go into any great detail on how my diet works for certain people. Actually, most people I found are willing to listen and hear me out which is great. I've gotten several people to try raw meat and most of them have really enjoyed it. It didn't really take much persuasion either.  It's just I can't see myself going up to a 75 year old grandfather who is in his 45th year of being a cardiologist and tell him the advice he's been dispenising over the entirety of his career is misguided. And then there's the slight possibilty that I am wrong but of course I would put loads of money that I'm right something no low fat doctor would probably ever do.

There are multiple genuine ways of communicating to people about what I eat that won't be infalmatory in any way and will be of the betterment for society. I am working on doing so. Last night was a special case where I was directly facing someone who has decades worth of work done in a field where no doubt she believes she has the right answer. Even then, I can explain myself, as I did last night, in a manner that provokes no further inquisition.

I could have said nothing and eaten my rare steak but I proceeded to let the truth out (not all of it) and feel so much better for it. As long as I won't completely destroy someone I will keep doing so. Steps 8 and 9 of alcoholics anonymous describe this situation well.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make
amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do
so would injure them or others.

That last bit is imporant, except when to do so would injure others. Say you've cheated on your ex-wife who is married with kids you probably wouldn't go interupt her life just to own up to your cheating if she never knew about it. Thats how I feel now. I will own up to my diet unless it is likely to cause harm to others.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 01:27:31 am by Paleo Donk »

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #76 on: January 24, 2010, 01:27:02 am »
And yoga went well. The hour session is a bit much for now and I found myself not being able to complete all the movements towards the end. This is fine for me. A couple years ago I'd probably be putting myself through a lot of torture to finish everything perfectly and to impress all the people in the class. Today, I just gave in to my body and rested when I felt too strained and knew that I'd be stronger for it. Letting go of the ego is a very hard thing to do.


Actually last year I did do Bikrahm's yoga 3-4 times, where you melt in a 105F room for 90 minutes. I pushed myself very hard through the exercises even though I think I had a slightly fractured foot. As a result it took longer to heal.

Offline livingthelife

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #77 on: January 24, 2010, 01:46:19 am »
There's a difference between "hiding" and integrity (interpersonal wholeness), which is what I meant to convey

The boundaries I meant are a matter of *allowing* yourself to be and thereby *allowing* others to be, not *holding in* information. Simply not disclosing because it's not necessary or relevant.

Ordering the same food, but not feeling that you have to justify or explain it... Doesn't mean anything except that you eat what you prefer, as others do...

Having a particular diet can be self-definition and social posturing in one extreme, or it can be a sacrament in the other extreme

These personal decisions usually fall somewhere in between for most people

Just food for thought...

Glad you enjoyed the yoga. An hour can be a long session. I've done Bikram yoga and enjoyed it, the climate enables metabolism and respiration to permit an uncommon depth (for those of us who do not practice in a jungle!)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 01:52:56 am by livingthelife »

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #78 on: January 24, 2010, 03:42:46 am »
I still don't get what you are trying to get at. Please use specific examples. You didn't say anything about what I was talking about.

For instance, when someone invites me to dinner I can simply say that I eat raw meat and can sit and chat with them which is a simple, reasonable and perfectly acceptable answer for most people. Or I can lie, evade the truth and have "integrity" and do what? Seriously what? This isn't a rhetorical question. What if I really don't want to eat anything they have to offer?

I don't think people will mind me sitting around without a plate of food. It might be awkward at first for them but its not like I'm causing them any undue harm. If I was eating cooked grain-fed meat then yea I probably get away with not saying as much but thats not the case.

My diet does define a certain aspect of me. Its so very simple if people know what it is. It makes life easier if people know. I only tell people to make life easier and if they want more info then I'll go into it.

I don't get when you think I should speak up and when I shouldn't. I was very specific above and you have given me nothing. I feel attached to my opinion that what I did was right. If you want to constructively criticize what I did then do so and stopbeing so vague. Sorry, I am a bit peturbed and its come out in this post but thats how I feel.

Offline djr_81

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #79 on: January 24, 2010, 04:07:17 am »
I believe that LTL meant is that in a case like that to just get the steak and not feel the need to explain why you're only getting a rare steak. If you don't offer an explanation most people could care less why you're eating what you're eating. If you are forthcoming with an explanation when one is not asked for it could possibly lead to conflict (not likely with the company you had at that dinner but it's a possibility with anyone).
You should feel no obligation to explain your actions to others unless they ask.
Your diet is a part of your whole but should not wholly define you; this is all LTL was trying to convey. :)

For the record I see no problem with explaining your food choices at the dinner table. Just be aware some people will be overzealous in their convictions that the way you eat is bad & unhealthy. It's your decision if the possibility of heated discussions and/or arguments is worth it. I'm very forthcoming with my diet but I have the backing of "food allergies" so even if people think I'm nuts for eating this way they "cut me slack" since it's all I can eat.
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As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler; solitude will not be solitude, poverty will not be poverty, nor weakness weakness.
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Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #80 on: January 24, 2010, 04:44:20 am »
I suppose I see that point but you both missed what I initially stated which was that before I thought about ordering anything I told them up front that I would not be able to eat at the restaurant. I'm sure I wasn't clear so heres a bit more.  My original plan was to make sure they knew I was on a specific diet and to asure them that I could sit comfortably and chit chat amongst them without anything but water in front of me. I never planned on ordering a steak. Even if I did, I think its still fine to tell people what your specific diet is so that next time, if they do invite you to dinner they will know what to expect and prepare accordingly. The invitation was rather haphazardly thrown together last minute so I didn't have a chance to speak up then.

There were a point that I was pretty sure everything was going to be ok as they settled on the fact that I wasn't ordering anything. It was an issue that I wasn't eating at first but it calmed down right until it came time to order and then I do what I normally do and try and please others and so got the rare small steak.

Im angry. I really liked my explanation and I think I handled it quite well and proud of myself for speaking up. I suppose I want appraisal from others now, feeling a bit weak minded at the moment. I want others to see that I am right. I realize I don't always explain myself fully. I hope this doesn't put offpeople from making comments in the future.

Offline RawZi

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #81 on: January 24, 2010, 04:49:56 am »
    It didn't put me off.

    I think you're handling things great.  I had to tell my husband today to stop taking me to restaurants; because it's like taking a diabetic to some kind of sit down candy store to hang out with you while you eat, expecting them to eat also.  I think he didn't like what I said for a second, but then he said "thank you" nicely.  He daily seems so interested in however the newest restaurant around is serving its pasta.  It's hard setting boundaries when the people around have no conception of them.  It can be "regular" work you have to do maybe even every day.  Hopefully it's not waring.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2010, 04:54:01 am »
   It didn't put me off.

I think you're handling things great.

**** yes  :P. Thank you.

Also thought of another minor point. I am going to be seeing these people quite a bit in the future so its better that I just get it over with now than keep avoiding it. This is why I visualized the scenario in my head before I went into it.  I knew it was necessary and tough at the same time. If I eat with strangers that I won't see again then sure why would I bring anything up.

In fact this visualization method is something straight out of my anxiety book. Its good to prepare for things that you know will lead you to anxiety. I knew this day was coming and I practiced for it and for the most part went through it smoothly.

Offline djr_81

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2010, 05:03:12 am »
Im angry. I really liked my explanation and I think I handled it quite well and proud of myself for speaking up. I suppose I want appraisal from others now, feeling a bit weak minded at the moment. I want others to see that I am right. I realize I don't always explain myself fully. I hope this doesn't put off people from making comments in the future.

For the record I see no problem with explaining your food choices at the dinner table. Just be aware some people will be overzealous in their convictions that the way you eat is bad & unhealthy. It's your decision if the possibility of heated discussions and/or arguments is worth it. I'm very forthcoming with my diet but I have the backing of "food allergies" so even if people think I'm nuts for eating this way they "cut me slack" since it's all I can eat.

As mentioned in my last post I saw nothing wrong with it. ;)
You did handle it well and that's a commendable thing.
I just wanted to agree with LTL that there will be times where not saying a thing can make life easier than offering up an explanation, that's all.
I don't think you have to fear about people holding their tongues. We're all strong-willed people around here so unless you specifically ask someone to not comment people will comment. :)
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As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler; solitude will not be solitude, poverty will not be poverty, nor weakness weakness.
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Offline livingthelife

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2010, 05:53:54 am »
I really liked my explanation and I think I handled it quite well and proud of myself for speaking up. I suppose I want appraisal from others now, feeling a bit weak minded at the moment. I want others to see that I am right.

You don't have to have others to validate that you are right, that's what I meant. You can be right within yourself without needing to divulge anything - to anyone.

From my own experience, which may or may not be useful to you (I thought that it may be, which is why I offered it), it seems that you are leaning on others for help and it's great that you can and great that others help. However, I found that eventually it was time to "get on with life" and I wasn't ready for it; I didn't recognize any qualities of my own to build on. I had constructed my self-definition on others' validation/help. When I started making improvements in my life I would be shattered if others didn't really care or disagreed. Sometimes they were even harmful to me due to the power and information I had given them. I found that I needed to start keeping some things personal - not hidden, but precious. That's the "sacrament" aspect of eating for me. There are other areas of my life that are precious as well, also "sacred." Private.

So sometimes dinner should just be dinner. Sometimes everyone would appreciate some simplicity. Maybe this was not the case in the event you described. I wasn't commenting only on that incident, but in general. And generally beyond diet as well.

I'm not trying to provoke or be vague. I hope you have ease and health.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2010, 06:18:32 am »
You avoided my question again. I appreciate your thoughts though I would have liked my question answered.

Offline livingthelife

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #86 on: January 24, 2010, 07:37:28 am »
You avoided my question again. I appreciate your thoughts though I would have liked my question answered.

I didn't avoid your question, that requires intent  :) I missed your question, I'm sorry...

Is this your question?

For instance, when someone invites me to dinner I can simply say that I eat raw meat and can sit and chat with them which is a simple, reasonable and perfectly acceptable answer for most people. Or I can lie, evade the truth and have "integrity" and do what? Seriously what? This isn't a rhetorical question. What if I really don't want to eat anything they have to offer?

By integrity I don't mean "telling the truth," I mean "being true to yourself," which doesn't always mean saying aloud how you feel

As in "integrated"

Anyway, some specific examples I've used are (more or less):

At a party at someone's home:

I'm fine for now, thank you. What a great selection!

      (followed by some appreciative conversation about the food)

At a restaurant:

I'm just going to have a cup of tea, but do order what you like. I'm just not very hungry!

      (because I ate my raw meal at home before the occasion)

At a buffet:

      (I selected a small variety of foods and nibbled on vegetables, no comment necessary)

I also don't eat with others often because the eating together is a bonding event and if I don't participate it could be misunderstood. I suggest alternative activities, such as hiking or a visit to the park, or a visit between mealtimes. Sometimes I choose not to attend an food-oriented event at all with no hard feelings to anyone.

I'm not terribly social and don't have to deal with this often, so perhaps others could provide suggestions?

I hope this is the question that you meant, if not, please clarify


Offline livingthelife

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #87 on: January 24, 2010, 08:01:57 am »
I didn't mean to derail you

You're moving through difficult times, admirably, looking after your health, that's what counts!

 :)

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #88 on: January 24, 2010, 10:35:34 am »
You seriously missed my question when I said, "Seriously, what?This isn't a rhetorical question"   ?

I'm currently exploring mistaken beliefs in my anxiety book. Mistaken beliefs are deeper-lying beliefs or assumptions about myself and life in general that I take for granted and assume to reflect reality. I feel personally threatened when I am criticized and you would notice this if you read through my journal.

I do not like getting criticized at all. I can get very down on myself for long periods of time afterwards and not be able focus on much else. This mainly happens when I argue over the internet on forums  such as these.  I've had really bad episodes where I've wanted to destroy people and physically hurt them because of their critical nature. I've not really that aggressive online or ever used these type of fighting words but I will often think them to myself after being criticized.

The past couple weeks have been much better in this regard and I haven't  been bothered as much and have simply shrugged some things off. Perhaps I haven't been tested as much or there have been less disagreements but in general I have felt more positive.

But when someone rudely points out a flaw in my arguments that I think are right I want to attack. I want to bring them down. I want to make sure they know they are wrong and they admit it. It feels great to have the upper hand in an argument. My ego is uplifted if I can get the other person to feel bad. I absolutely hate thinking that I am incapable of not figuring something out or out thinking someone.

I rarely post inflamatory statements because I am behind a keyboard and can't type as fast as I think. I get time to try and say things that keep the situation somewhat calm.

I see that LVL's posts are here for my well being and that is all and that there is no reason for me to get upset. I can discuss them without  trying to bring her down. I can manuever my way around the situation as to not bring anything threatening up.

But my emotional reaction is to attack. And that feels good to do so but also is a variable strategy in that if my logic is incorrect I will feel far worse and even if I do come out on top I will eventually feel silly for purposely being malicious. I don't really disagree with much of what she has written as its just a slight miscommunication.

However with this said I'm not sold that lvl's words are not inflamatory. Throughout this little ordeal she has not commented once on my approach to the situation. Instead of saying how she would have handled my specific situation she gave examples that I had already explained how I would handle. She gives me the impression that I handled my dinner situation incorrectly without telling me what I should have done. Perhaps she purposefully is not trying to validate my experience so that I do not have to rely on validation from others for support as is her contention that I get too much validation from others. Maybe shes trying to validate her own methodology of living by judging me.

In my opinion, when attempting to critique someones approach you mention the parts they did well first and then mention the areas that need improvement.

Again with this family, I am going to see them again. There is a good chance they invite me over for dinner. I am not going to continue to make excuses each and every time we eat. How bizarre would that be? Now they know what to feed me. We even talked about eating at a grass-fed beef place which is a step up.

It looks like you haven't read much of my journal which is fine since its so long and probably a bit boring.

Also I am fine with being wrong. I do not like the feeling of being wrong and dread it but I do have the ability to admit where I went wrong and will readily admit it always in the future as it makes life so much easier to live. I don't think I handled the advice from lvl that well and felt much better when I wrote my thoughts down this afternoon.

I do understand having boundaries and thats a great point to bring up though I don't particularly care that much for the examples you brought up. If I'm at a buffet I'm not going to pay for it and then eat vegetables. Is your sacrament worth the price of  the buffet? I'll just sit there and drink my water for free. I can do some deep breathing while the others wait in line for food. You also purposefully skip social events just because of the food? This doesn't seem to be inline with how I want to live.

I like exploring my thoughts, I hope you guys like listening to mine even they do seem to ramble on endlessly about seemingly forgetable things.

Offline Guittarman03

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #89 on: January 24, 2010, 03:05:10 pm »
After sharing this diet with MANY people, 300, 400? I've come to the conclusion that 75-100% of what someone thingks of it (right off the bat) is already decided by their own peronality or open/close mindeness no matter what you say or how you present it.     

I also tend to think that there's not necessarily a 'best' way to handle it, just a number of good ways (and a number of bad ways).  As long as you keep it pretty light-hearted and don't get to serious, people will of course respond much better.  Keep in mind you become an easy target for jokes, so do your best to roll with it, not take offense, and just laugh them off (or at least smile).

What makes the real statment to people is when they see you do this day in day out, and see that you're doing just fine.  They may have all kinds of "logical" things to say against you and/or your diet, but there's nothing they can do when you slap them in the face with reality - that is, keeping this up and being healthier and stronger than the rest.  It sort of forces most people to re-evaluate their views somewhat.

Of course, some people are just stubborn assholes who will refuse to change anything they believe no matter how much logic or evidence presented.  Others will always try to act like they're better than you b/c it's a sort of easy self validation "at least I'm not as dumb as that guy," and thus will never change either.  These f---ers piss me off too, but there's not much I can do about it, and they're generally in the minority (1 out of 10?).

For the majority, if you don't act like it's a big deal, they will generally not make too much of it either.  I would try a few different methods and see what works best, just keep these few ideas in mind and I'm sure you'll get comfortable with it eventually, which will inevitably help others to be (more) comfortable with it too.

On a side note I felt better in the gym today and made some gains over my last UB routine.  I feel like I'm rounding the corner in what has felt like a secondary adjustment period. 

 
When you consume an organism it loses individuality, but its biological life never ends.  Digestion is merely a transfer of its life to mine.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2010, 08:37:20 pm »
I just woke up and had a slight change of opinion and come here to post only to see GM posting my thoughts for me. I completely agree that there clearly is a range of responses that are available for rpds to dispense out, not just one. I will sort of experiment, well I am forced to since I haven't had too much practice in the past.

All my friends knew I was zero carb before and for the most part all accepted me right away. I got lots of questions but I never felt judged. I never got the heart attack line just lots of honest questions. I didn't really enjoy the attention but now looking back I think I'm lucky I've had friends who never really passed judgment and who even tried pieces of raw meat.

Even before I learned anything about diet - I knew nothing before reading GCBC - I was very critical of my brother who went zc to win a weightloss bet from me. I remember telling my friends how ridiculous it was because she thought HFCS was bad. I was one of those buffoons who made judgments based on nothing but sketchy tv blurbs on diet. I was blind just like the rest of them.

Thats kind of where my name on this site comes from. In the poker world a donkey is someone who is terrible and will be an easy target for anyone with basic poker skills.  Donk is the shortened version and thus in essence I'm calling myself an ill-trained person intrested in paleo nutrition.

Also, as for keeping my diet hidden most of the time, I'll have to disagree even further. I found this diet by pure luck. There was no skill. I was a brainless automaton unable to question anything around me content getting drunk multiple times per week and bench pressing twice. I don't deserve feeling better because of this diet anymore than anyone else. I'm not going to keep something thats been so good to me just because someone might not like to hear it. I will  pick my spots  of course and not unleash my diet on everyone. I will also wait so that my progress is a bit more visible. I'm still less than two months off rehab and only one month on this  diet.

But, there will be a time where I will be looking to help those out who might benefit greatly. I will go out of my way to offer advice. The worst that can happen is that they disagree and get momentarily flustered before forgetting about it. One of my dad's best friends died recently alone in his house because of complications from diabetes. I've spent quite a bit of time with him, knew he was diabetic and nearly gave him some simple ideas on diet but I didn't. The last time I saw him was a couple months before his death and I can remember being on the verge of giving him my advice that might have turned his life around. Like most he probably wouldn't have listened but theres still that possibility.  Don't worry, I don't blame myself but I don't want to see these opportunities fly by again. I could have simply offered Dr. Bernstein's book, something so simple.

This diet could be the best gift I've ever given myself. I'm not going to be selfish and keep it to myself. I got so incredibly lucky and read one fucking book. What if I read the china study instead?  I could be wrong on all this mess but I know there is a way to reach people and I will be doing so in the future.


And GM - good to hear your lifts progressed. I assume you'll keep your experiment going a bit longer now.

Offline livingthelife

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2010, 11:13:59 pm »
However with this said I'm not sold that lvl's words are not inflamatory. Throughout this little ordeal she has not commented once on my approach to the situation. Instead of saying how she would have handled my specific situation she gave examples that I had already explained how I would handle. She gives me the impression that I handled my dinner situation incorrectly without telling me what I should have done. Perhaps she purposefully is not trying to validate my experience so that I do not have to rely on validation from others for support as is her contention that I get too much validation from others. Maybe shes trying to validate her own methodology of living by judging me.

If I had been in the situation I would not have said anything about the diet to these people

because of my personality

I'm not you

You did what you wanted to do and that's fine

I was suggesting another tactic, one that I'm more comfortable with and I explained why I prefer that

It's not up to me to validate or not validate you, which is why my comments are open-ended - take them or leave them. I deliberately avoid telling others what I think they should do or should have done.   

No harm intended.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2010, 02:35:09 am »
Your tactic makes does not seem to make sense in my situation and you failed to explain why it would work or how it would keep working. I was trying to get you to explain how your method would work in my exact situation. You still have yet to give a legitimate answer. You would continue to tell people that you are likely to be involved in private dinners multiple times per year that you are not hungry? I really want to know how you would handle seeing the same people over the course of years and not ever telling them once about your diet. This is a bit too much don't you think?

Is there ever a situation where you do think its right to tell people about your diet?

Its rather funny thinking about how things would turn out if I were to keep in touch with these people over the course of the next ten years and not ever eat in front of them once or ever explain to them what I was doing.

 I understand where you are coming from but perhaps you are looking at the range of possibilities a bit too narrow. It seems like you have a one-size fits all answer.

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2010, 07:46:21 am »
I am extremely open about Zero Carb. It helps that I look the way I do, I figure. But I only state my diet if it comes up in a social situation. I am often asked about my diet at the gym, and I explain how ZC gives me energy to lift, makes me strong and slims me down.  I am very adament about eating this way, and let someone know if they are incorrect, as they often are, about saturated fat, carbohydrate requirements, etc. I am civil and enthusiastic, but I don't take crap from anyone. I am very dismissive of carbohydrates in general, and I need only to look at the bloated masses eating fruit and vegetables and low fat to know I'm on the right path. I haven't seen fat carnivores except in zoos.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #94 on: January 26, 2010, 08:44:34 pm »
After having moderate signs of improved energy and strength during the day I had a disastorous day yesterday with sickengly low levels of energy. I barely felt alive and was very weak in the morning. I thought to myself that I'd easily trade a lifetime of yesterdays for 3 years of perfect health, maybe less. Things actually improved when I had half a cup of coffee early evening. Since I've never really drank coffee, the effects were immediate and wonderful. I felt human again and began connecting with the world around me. I remained human until I went to bed past 11, well after the affects of the coffee would have worn off. I was hesistant to try coffee but the pain was just  too much and so I gave in. I don't want to make this a habit, but now will try coffee or tea if I start feeling as low as I did yesterday.


Late last night I had a couple pounds of lamb that I had accidentally left out all day (14 hours or so). I wasn't that hungry but went for one slice. It tasted great and I couldn't stop myself from eating the other 3. I probably would have eaten even more if it was around. I've decided to try and age the meat a little before eating. I do this when I bring my meat to school and have to keep it out in the open in my car until lunch time. Its warm and beginning to brown, has more flavor and is even easier to eat. I don't really care as much for the stuff that is barely defrosted.

I ate a bit over 3 pounds of meat yesterday, the most so far and feel better this morning. Perhaps I just wasn't eating enough. I also can't tell if I'm drinking enough water. I hardly ever get thirsty and rarely drink much at all. Perhaps I'll start drinking a bit more water as well.

On sunday at the huge free brunch that I'm invited to, I passed completely on the food which was a first. I also ate a nice size chunk of raw marrow. It tasted like wax. I actually started feeling the tiniest bit queasy with an uneasy gut sunday afternoon. I defecated two straight days in a row after having gone 80 hours without one. Perhaps there was something going on digestion wise this weekend that lead to my attrocious day yesterday. I have relatively poor sensitivity when it comes to noticing symptoms of ill-health with myself.

I tested my ketone levels last night reading low and moderate again this morning. I'm down a couple more pounds to 177 as well. I feel pretty good right now about to head to school.

Offline jessica

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #95 on: January 26, 2010, 10:02:59 pm »
hey paleo, i struggled with high energy then really depressed low days for a while, now my energy is much more stable but i must warn you to trust your body on days like this and allow it to rest.  if you do have any adrenal/glandular issues they do require some rest.  it took me a while to honor this as i am the kind of person that wants to go %200 each day! but this just drains them and also using coffee as a panacea isnt the best idea as it can be draining to the glands as well as stressing them into action when they would rather just have a restful/restorative day.  but if you need a little kick perhaps mate' or some other kind of green tea is a nicer alternative?  just some ideas. glad you are getting into aged meat, its really delicious!

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #96 on: January 28, 2010, 05:39:29 am »
I've been attempting to dig around to find causes for my persistant fatigue. Yesterday my Aunt called from school after I had already left to discuss my lack of energy which she has apparently noticed. After she got off the phone I immediately went to work cleaning my room, doing my book work and putting together a task list. It wasn't painful or fatiguing and I just kind of automatically and instictually started doing things I've been wanting to get done for quite some time. Motivation seems to be a huge factor. The efficacy of my diet was on the line and there was no way I wanted to defend it. I felt great afterwards with renewed confidence about my program and the future.

Depression is such a disparingly dark place that I actually thought would be quickly reversed by diet alone. I felt that I needed energy first to make anything happen, kind of like a car that's out of fuel. Its useless unless you have gas. I think I realized I need to sometimes push the car to the gas station when it runs out.

I seem to quickly forget the bad times when I'm feeling good. Life is so easy when I'm in good spirits. I really have to work on myself everyday it seems like or else I just feel like shit. I've only done 2 chapters in my book because I keep having to reread them because I'll only do work a couple days in a row and then forget about it for the rest of the week. I have to remind myself everyday to try, and to smile, and say peoples names, and look people in the eye, and to have good posture, and to speak clearly and loudly without mumbling, and to not look so depressed. These things are so unnatural to me and so foreign and something I've never done. I've spent a lifetime avoiding adults, used to petrified of them when I was kid. This behavior in turn was rewarding because I got to escape and never deal with having a conversation with them. I still feel weird talking to adults unless you give me an amphetamine and then its like magic and I'm exactly the outgoing charismatic person I want to be and its incredibly easy and life is amazing.

I also have to admit that I'm addicted to the internet and can spend hours searching and researching - all stuff I think is pretty important - but I lose track of it all and bounce from one subject to the next never really digesting much of anything. I'm going to try and have a more direct approach to my internet searching with actual organization. I feel I lose everything that I read so fast.  I also don't plan on not posting here as much as I have as I really get lost and isolate and feel drained after long searches. Its rather hard for me to pull myself away from the computer and be sociable with my family.

There is also the possibility that I self sabatoge myself on purpose so that I do have a mountain to climb seeing that being on top is stress free with no drama or much excitement. I actually have felt in the past that I would lose money on urpose while playing poker so that coming back would be that much more eventful. Addict brain at work.




Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #97 on: January 28, 2010, 05:53:45 am »
One more thing I'd like to get off my chest. Depression seems to make everything so painful. Breathing is difficult, holding your eyelids open is straining. Having good posture is almost impossible. I hunch myself over all the time, my shoulders slope forward, my head turns down. I can never keep my shoulders back or head up or back straight. I get these horrible knots in my back. I can barely stand up for long periods of time without feeling my back tighten up tremendously. Its so annoyingly painful. Forming words is difficult and also painful. Putting away dishes feels like an impossible task. Depression probably stresses lots of other things that I cannot feel. Its just incredibly bad. When I think about it I just get so angry and want to take a bat and beat the hell out of something expensive.

Luckily I've always pulled myself out of it to a manageable level. Hopefully I can finally connect the right pieces for a lengthy trip above water.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #98 on: January 31, 2010, 10:04:24 pm »
Life has turned around a good amount since my last couple posts. I had stopped my medication about 2 weeks ago and since it takes about 2 weeks for the drug to be fully utilized in my system perhaps I was detoxing from it and that was the reason for my low energy levels. I have no clue, but I did have a couple really bad days in there.

I've been eating quite a bt more food lately. A couple days ago I had 2 pounds of chuck + lamb for lunch and then went out for dinner and had a rare 16oz steak plus small leftover fatty pieces from other's plates and then still ate some raw meat right when I came home from dinner. So I probably got close to 4 pounds of food.

I also don't think I have a clue as to what real hungr is either as I can't recently recall any signals telling me to stop. I keep eating food that I am defrosting for the next day. I might test myself here soon and defrost 5 pounds of meat and see if I get any signal telling me to stop. I am usually fine when I stop eating, its just if its infront of me I have really hard time not eating it. I'm letting a small sliver sit out to examine how it looks when it rots. So far it just looks like its slowly dehydrating.

I also ate some meat that was sitting out in open air after 30 hours or so. It was very dark reddish and felt quite dry on the surface. There was also a hint of rotten smell creeping in. I believe I had the slightest hint of "brain destabilization" after ingesting it. I felt a little dizzy and just not quite right. Maybe I didn't feel anything, I have a very poor ability to connect my feelings to causes. Or I just don't really like connecting feelings to causes unless I have very significant proof that is replicated. I never understood how so many people would always be able to instantly determine exactly what it was that was causing ill health. I usually just shrug my shoulders.

Book work has gone really well and I've now worked for 5 days in a row, again feeling uplifted with a sense of relief everytime I go through with it.

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Re: Round 2: From addiction to recovery
« Reply #99 on: January 31, 2010, 10:22:32 pm »
I still have cravings for carbs and might add them back in sooner than later. I still don't understand how exactly I'm supposed to mix them together or how it corresponds to eating in paleolithic times. Did we always carb up each day a little bit? I don't even know what paleolithic fruits are. I always here about berries but I can't imagine them being plentiful everywhere especially during the winter.  Every other fruit/veg I can think of seems to be highly modified from its original form and I can't make a case for it. I feel like having just a bit of carbs, but I want to keep my experiment going as well. I just can't make any sense of it. I suppose its still early as its been about 6 weeks. Ketones are were almost non-existant yesterday and between light and moderate this morning.


I lifted a couple times

1/26

DB press
70x3
75x1

Failed here sadly, was going to go for 75x5 but this linear progression was way too much. Should have humbled myself and stuck with less, though I was feeling a bit depressed.

Hang Power Clean
worked up to -
185xF
185x1
205xF
205x1

My form was starting to slip badly here and so I gave it up. This was probably my worst lifting day yet

Olympic Squat
135x5
225x3
245x2
265x1

I've barely done any squats over the past few months because my left knee cap is hurting but I was a little upset at my regression in hpc so I decided it was time to add squats back in. Going to stick with low reps, I really don't want to injure my knee. It seems to never be getting any better, even after several months off.

1/28

Pullups
8,6,6 x bw

Ran a mile on treadmill - 6:59

I pushed myself till exhaustion and it took me 20-30 mins to feel better

1/29

Bench DB
85x5
100x4
105x5
110x2

I felt very good and calm going to lift

Squats
135x5
225x3
245x2
265x1
285x1

Some tricep pulldowns.

Left knee still feels off. I think I'll back off and work on perfecting my form. Perhaps there is a way to manage without pain.

 

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