Author Topic: Why Humans Outlive Apes  (Read 21598 times)

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Offline Nicola

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Why Humans Outlive Apes
« on: December 31, 2009, 09:42:43 pm »
Just an interesting read - the thread on "Bananas" made me dig this up...

http://www.livescience.com/animals/091215-humans-outlive-apes.html


http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/11/30/0909606106.full.pdf


I hope "New topic" is the right place to post this - if not Tyler will doubtless move it >:

Nicola

Offline RawZi

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2009, 10:15:51 pm »
    Interesting, thanks for posting this.

    I was just thinking the other day (an aside) that humans should be living a lot longer than we do.  I think one of the reasons we don't is because we hadn't learned to eat the best when we were very young.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 02:21:02 am »
I hope "New topic" is the right place to post this - if not Tyler will doubtless move it >:
Nicola

I'm afraid so, it's now been moved to the Hot Topics thread. ;)

I'd already read the article a few days ago but decided not to post the thread for a number of reasons. First of all, there are other studies I've mentioned before, showing a very large increase in lifespan occurring c.30,000 years ago(with the teenaged phase not appearing before that point) so the above article is highly misleading. Secondly, I don't believe that single genes can have such a powerful effect on lifespan, it has to be due to a combination of factors and at least dozens/thousands of other genes as well.

Then there's the claim re parasites and inflammation. It's vaguely possible but parasites were around long before 250,000 years ago, and the hygiene hypothesis theory suggests that parasites might actually help the body fight inflammation and prevent allergies/astham etc.. Now genes to ward off inflammation might ensue because cooked foods causes major amounts of inflammation through heat-created toxins such as AGEs, and it is interesting that the gene mentioned appeared 250,000 years ago when cooking got started.But if there were indeed a link between cooked foods and a higher lifespan due to genetic countering of inflammation, it doesn't explain why AGEs(advanced glycation end products) and similiar heat-created toxins caused by cooked foods, speed up the rate of aging in humans in terms of causing more age-related health problems - and then there's the multiple anecdotal reports from middle-aged RVAFers who frequently mention how they look c.10 years younger than their cooked-food-eating contemporaries. So, I didn't think this article was scientifically valid enough to be mentioned.
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Offline redfulcrum

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2010, 04:19:56 pm »
I don't know about all the scientific studies, but eating cooked meat is a lot easier to tear apart than raw.  I'm talking about physically, not taste.  You can get to everything raw too, but boy is it physically demanding.  Sometimes I just want to stop working on the good stuff because it's so demanding.  If you cook it, I can see how you can get more nutrients because it's easier to eat.  That would explain the shrinking of our jaws and teeth. 
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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 05:55:58 pm »
... Sometimes I just want to stop working on the good stuff because it's so demanding.  If you cook it, I can see how you can get more nutrients because it's easier to eat.  That would explain the shrinking of our jaws and teeth.

    When I eat raw meat, the energy feels so good in my mouth and between my teeth.  No wonder my jaw can grow.  Eating cooked meat I might as well have been chewing a stone.  It would have done me more good too possibly AFAIC. 
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2010, 06:02:07 pm »
It' not valid to suggest that eating cooked meat is easier than eating raw meat. It is self-evident that the opposite is true - after all, cooking food takes far longer than eating raw food re preparation as people need to first skin and cut up the meats then they have to boil the food, previously make containers to boil the food in, wait until the cooking is finished while constantly monitoring the cooking process to ensure the food's nutrients aren't cooked until they're charcoal - then there's the inevitable spices that are routinely added to cooked foods in order to enhance the taste as cooked foods are so much blander in taste than raw foods.

By contrast, all raw foodists have to do after killing the animal is to tear chunks off it either with their teeth or knifes and remove the skin, beforehand. Case closed, raw-food diets waste far less time than cooked diets.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2010, 12:00:09 am »
I don't know about all the scientific studies, but eating cooked meat is a lot easier to tear apart than raw.  I'm talking about physically, not taste.  You can get to everything raw too, but boy is it physically demanding.  Sometimes I just want to stop working on the good stuff because it's so demanding.  If you cook it, I can see how you can get more nutrients because it's easier to eat.  That would explain the shrinking of our jaws and teeth. 

I used to think this way when I was new to raw paleo diet.  But now after 2 years it is apparent that is so much easier and faster to eat raw meat than cooked meat.  Cooking is such a hassle.  Digestion times on raw meat is faster.  Biting off soft fleshy parts like strip loin beef is easy.  Eating with scissors I currently find easiest.  Having the raw meat age a little makes it even easier.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2010, 03:16:05 am »
  That would explain the shrinking of our jaws and teeth. 

Two points:

1.  Teeth have not actually shrunk, only jaws

2.  The shrinking of the jaw is an individual thing, tied directly to nutrition.  Dr. Price pointed out that when traditional groups with normal (Paleo-sized) jaws switched to refined foods, their children had much smaller jaws, resulting in crooked teeth.  Take at look at Dr. Price's book, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.  He certainly wasn't right about everything, but he was the first person to note that shrunken jaws and crooked  teeth cacn be reversed in 1 generation, and can happen in one generation, and are 100% the result of poor nutrition.  His book is online at journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html.  Take a look, mainly at chapters 18 and 19, but also chapters 15-17.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2010, 06:39:04 pm »
Well, actually, jaw and tooth size declined over the Palaeolithic, and even into the Neolithic era, in the case of teeth:-
http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci590/4_3RecentHumanDentitionEvolution.txt.htm

I find it interesting that they claim that Australian Aborigines have a higher tooth-size to body-ratio than other ethnic groups, given that the explanation thereof is that they were supposedly introduced to cooking at a much later date than any other group.

I do think that Price has some claim to the notion that diet can affect jaw-size, but only to a moderate extent. Who knows, perhaps if we continue RPD diets for another 50 generations, maybe our descendents will have not only larger brains but larger jaws/teeth.
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2010, 09:52:28 am »
Well, actually, jaw and tooth size declined over the Palaeolithic, and even into the Neolithic era, in the case of teeth:-
http://www.uic.edu/classes/osci/osci590/4_3RecentHumanDentitionEvolution.txt.htm



I do think that Price has some claim to the notion that diet can affect jaw-size, but only to a moderate extent. Who knows, perhaps if we continue RPD diets for another 50 generations, maybe our descendents will have not only larger brains but larger jaws/teeth.

Let me get some clarity.  You do or do not agree with the hypothesis that crooked teeth are mostly the result of poor nutrition, and that the problem can be corrected in the very next generation by good nutrition?

I find it interesting that the first scientist to note the influence of nutrition on crookedness of teeth was a Canadian, living in the US.

He certainly wasn't a European, was he now? LOL

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2010, 05:44:55 pm »
Let me get some clarity.  You do or do not agree with the hypothesis that crooked teeth are mostly the result of poor nutrition, and that the problem can be corrected in the very next generation by good nutrition?
  I think it's possible to improve crooked teeth with better nutrition, but not in all cases, just some or most.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2010, 08:18:33 am »
It' not valid to suggest that eating cooked meat is easier than eating raw meat. It is self-evident that the opposite is true - after all, cooking food takes far longer than eating raw food re preparation as people need to first skin and cut up the meats then they have to boil the food, previously make containers to boil the food in, wait until the cooking is finished while constantly monitoring the cooking process to ensure the food's nutrients aren't cooked until they're charcoal - then there's the inevitable spices that are routinely added to cooked foods in order to enhance the taste as cooked foods are so much blander in taste than raw foods.

By contrast, all raw foodists have to do after killing the animal is to tear chunks off it either with their teeth or knifes and remove the skin, beforehand. Case closed, raw-food diets waste far less time than cooked diets.
For tender cuts of meat and ground meat, yes. But for tough cuts of meat, the low-and-slow method of cooking does make them much easier to eat. I think this is why cooking of meats got started--they probably started cooking the toughest portions of meat first (or the liver, if they used poisoned arrows, as traditional Bushmen do). I've eaten some tougher cuts of meat. After a while I gave up on one such cut and cooked it so I could eat it faster. Ground beef is definitely easier to eat and digest raw.
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2010, 08:57:09 am »
Vegans/vegetarians are fond of pointing out that chimps are extremely similar, genetically, to humans. This article raised an interesting question: given this close genetic similarity that vegans/vegeatarians often tout, why do chimps have much shorter lifespans when compared to "people living in high mortality hunter-forager lifestyles," who "still have twice the life expectancy at birth as wild chimpanzees do"? What's your alternative hypothesis, Tyler?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline van

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2010, 09:57:44 am »
 some believe that we're here, our lifespan is determined by how much time is needed to effectively to create the next offspring.  With chimps, they probably mate earlier and are also prone to being eaten as they get older.  Hence genetically there bodies are eliminated after a certain point. Pure speculation

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2010, 07:17:04 pm »
Vegans/vegetarians are fond of pointing out that chimps are extremely similar, genetically, to humans. This article raised an interesting question: given this close genetic similarity that vegans/vegeatarians often tout, why do chimps have much shorter lifespans when compared to "people living in high mortality hunter-forager lifestyles," who "still have twice the life expectancy at birth as wild chimpanzees do"? What's your alternative hypothesis, Tyler?
  Given that average human  lifespan increased dramatically at a time when there was no significant change in diet, one can safely assume that lifespan isn't correlated to diet directly(though, indirectly via health-problems). I agree with van's point, I reckon that caring by grandparents., delayed maturity etc. favoured a drive towards increased age.
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2010, 07:21:21 pm »
... But for tough cuts of meat, the low-and-slow method of cooking does make them much easier to eat. I think this is why cooking of meats got started--they probably started cooking the toughest portions of meat first (or the liver, if they used poisoned arrows, as traditional Bushmen do). I've eaten some tougher cuts of meat. ...

    The tough cuts of meat are fine for me, as long as I have a sharp knife.  I tried chewing instead of cutting on the very fibrous leg tendons, but it made me nauseous.  I have tried cooking them, to get the bone building amino acids.  It's just too hard boiling for three days, just to have someone knock over the pot after that several times.  I don't think it's really necessary anyway.  Dogs love chewing bones.  If we can find dogs to give these to, that would be best. 

    I won't imagine the cooked liver.  Raw liver is good, but in the past I have gotten too sick from cooked liver.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2010, 07:25:04 pm »
For tender cuts of meat and ground meat, yes. But for tough cuts of meat, the low-and-slow method of cooking does make them much easier to eat. I think this is why cooking of meats got started--they probably started cooking the toughest portions of meat first (or the liver, if they used poisoned arrows, as traditional Bushmen do). I've eaten some tougher cuts of meat. After a while I gave up on one such cut and cooked it so I could eat it faster. Ground beef is definitely easier to eat and digest raw.

*Only exception I can think of are those irremovable minor thread-like connective tissue on raw leg of lamb/leg of mutton. Can't imagine anyone going to the trouble of cooking just for that microscopic part of the body.
The above is such rubbish that I'm just glad that this is in the hot topics forum. First of all, not everyone finds raw ground meat easier to digest, I'm one of those who found it much more difficult to digest by comparison to chunks of non-ground raw meats(indeed, there is a widespread anecdotal claim in the RPD world that it is easier to digest chunks of non-ground raw meats(after bolting meat down like a dog) than it is to eat ground raw meat(see past threads in the 2 forums on chewing or the lack of need for it on a RPD diet).

Secondly, raw meats are by no means tough. I've eaten a wide variety of raw meats, soft and tough, and it's no big deal to tear off chunks with my teeth and swallow them with minimal chewing. Sure, if one is a very finicky kind of guy, and insists on artificially using knives at ALL times and chewing all the time, I'd imagine that cutting and eating certain pieces of raw meat with a knife is a bit of a hassle compared to cutting through  and eating denatured cooked meat , but that's it.

In short, the explanation given above for why cooking was invented is unfounded.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 07:33:35 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2010, 06:54:45 am »
The above is such rubbish that I'm just glad that this is in the hot topics forum. First of all, not everyone finds raw ground meat easier to digest,
I meant easier to chew, not easier to digest. I think raw meats are easier to digest, as I have said many times in the past. Using a knife was mentioned, which is true, but with tenderizing via low-and-slow cooking or fermenting or marinating, a knife is not needed for even tough cuts of meat.

Quote
I'm one of those who found it much more difficult to digest by comparison to chunks of non-ground raw meats(indeed, there is a widespread anecdotal claim in the RPD world that it is easier to digest chunks of non-ground raw meats(after bolting meat down like a dog) than it is to eat ground raw meat(see past threads in the 2 forums on chewing or the lack of need for it on a RPD diet).
That makes less sense to me than what I wrote. Grinding meats is basically partially pre-digesting them.

I'm glad you mentioned the bolting method again. This is a carnivore method of eating. I know you don't view humans as carnivores, so why do you think humans are adapted to bolting?

Quote
Secondly, raw meats are by no means tough.
I specified tough (raw) meats. If it's not tough, it's not what I was talking about. Not long ago I was eating a tough cut of raw meat and it was taking far, far longer to eat it than ground raw meat, because I had to cut it up in small bits. My time was limited that night and the next day, so I quit and the next day I low-and-slow cooked the remainder and was able to finish it at a far more rapid pace. It was way too chewy when raw. I doubt anything I say or show you will change your mind, so you are free to disagree. I'm just reporting my experience. Maybe it was a fluke piece of raw meat, but I guarantee it was tough.

Quote
I've eaten a wide variety of raw meats, soft and tough, and it's no big deal to tear off chunks with my teeth and swallow them with minimal chewing.
1) I prefer not to use your bolting method, 2) this meat was too tough for me to tear and not worth the risk of potentially damaging some of my still-somewhat-fragile lower teeth, 3) I was eating with my parents who would likely have thought me insane if I used your tear-and-bolt method with a big, bloody piece of raw meat--just eating raw meat in front of them was probably about the max shock they could handle at the time, and 4) my parents ate their cooked meat much faster than I was eating my raw meat (until I later low-cooked mine), so they weren't impressed, unfortunately. Next time I'll use ground raw meat, which I can eat much faster with a spoon or fork than I can tough meat with a knife.

Quote
Sure, if one is a very finicky kind of guy, and insists on artificially using knives at ALL times and chewing all the time, ...
I don't consider RawZi necessarily "a very finicky kind of" person just because she used a knife. Nor do I consider people who chew their food to necessarily be very finicky. I do consider calling people very finicky for such minor, strange reasons to be insulting.

Quote
I'd imagine that cutting and eating certain pieces of raw meat with a knife is a bit of a hassle compared to cutting through  and eating denatured cooked meat , but that's it.
Yes, that's the essence of my original point. I was using a knife at the time. A standard stainless steel steak knife wasn't even able to cut the meat, so I had to switch to a very sharp knife.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 11:43:00 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2010, 07:04:16 am »
I got brisket once out of curiousity and tried to eat it raw. I have strong teeth (imo) and it was virtually impossible for me to eat it raw. Even after some cooking it was very hard to eat.  I ended up throwing most of it away.

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2010, 10:18:11 am »
Paleoman always had a stone knife, which is much sharper than any modern metal knife, so cutting small bite-size pieces would have been no problem.

Ground beef is not just ground beef - it is beef mixed with white stuff, probably tendons and ligaments and who knows what. I think that that stuff is what gives me a stop, while it makes RawZi nauseous.
It's also legal to add other stuff to ground beef, such as sodium nitrite.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2010, 10:33:06 am »
Paleoman always had a stone knife, which is much sharper than any modern metal knife, so cutting small bite-size pieces would have been no problem.
No problem, but time consuming. We already know that people started cooking meat at some point. The only question is why. Like I said, my guess is that plant foods were what really inspired cooking, since cooking is not as useful with meat, but all traditional societies cook some of their meats today, including even the Nenets. We know it's not essential, so the question again is, why?

Quote
Ground beef is not just ground beef - it is beef mixed with white stuff, probably tendons and ligaments and who knows what. I think that that stuff is what gives me a stop, while it makes RawZi nauseous.
It's also legal to add other stuff to ground beef, such as sodium nitrite.
I have good meat sources that don't add preservatives or anything else to the grassfed raw ground flesh they sell.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline RawZi

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2010, 10:43:17 am »
Paleoman always had a stone knife, which is much sharper than any modern metal knife, so cutting small bite-size pieces would have been no problem.

... tendons and ligaments and who knows what. I think that that stuff is what gives me a stop, while it makes RawZi nauseous.
...

    I'm not sure raw tendons in and of themselves have made me nauseous.  I'm thinking maybe the chewing got enzymes forming/flowing in me that just didn't go with raw meat for me.  It could be I still have work to do on my gall bladder or something.  I have eaten raw tendons that I cut up, but just bolted them down, and it seems I digested them fully that way those times without a problem.  I do have a blister on my finger right not from cutting tendons off the bone without a cutting board and with a knife that could have been sharper if I would have sharpened it, and the knife pressing on my finger while doing that cutting.

    True, in pre-chopped meat bought from a store, I too would not trust that I know exactly what they might have added or whether it was handled best.
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Offline RawZi

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2010, 10:46:57 am »
I have good meat sources that don't add preservatives or anything else to the grassfed raw ground flesh they sell.

    I still don't like finding scraps of bone or getting weird feelings from the meat.  I may just be over sensitive, but that's how I am, and I accept that I am this way.  I'd rather run the cut through my own grinder if I want it that way, and not having it sit at all after grinding.  I think I digest best when it's not ground though.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2010, 06:27:09 pm »
I meant easier to chew, not easier to digest. I think raw meats are easier to digest, as I have said many times in the past. Using a knife was mentioned, which is true, but with tenderizing via low-and-slow cooking or fermenting or marinating, a knife is not needed for even tough cuts of meat.

The point being that rawists don't need to chew. I mean, I might quickly chew once  as a reflex before bolting a bit of raw meat down and that's it. And rawists don't really need knives, that's purely for social reasons or convenience.
Quote
That makes less sense to me than what I wrote. Grinding meats is basically partially pre-digesting them.

I disagree. Grinding isn't the same as improving digestion - if that were true, then many highly-refined/processed foods would be much easier to digest than raw, whole ones, which isn't the case. That's why I'm highly sceptical of dodgy pemmican/easier digestion claims. At any rate, this  point re easier digestion with bolting rather than chewing  is widely reported in RVAF circles. Also the fact that carnivores don't bother chewing and just bolt meats down does indicate the lack of need to do so on a raw diet.Though, given the lack of enzymes in cooked meats, it's obviously essential to chew those for better digestion.

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I'm glad you mentioned the bolting method again. This is a carnivore method of eating. I know you don't view humans as carnivores, so why do you think humans are adapted to bolting?

Omnivores such as bears are also adapted to bolting. It doesn't mean a thing, therefore.
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I specified tough (raw) meats. If it's not tough, it's not what I was talking about. Not long ago I was eating a tough cut of raw meat and it was taking far, far longer to eat it than ground raw meat, because I had to cut it up in small bits. My time was limited that night and the next day, so I quit and the next day I low-and-slow cooked the remainder and was able to finish it at a far more rapid pace. It was way too chewy when raw. I doubt anything I say or show you will change your mind, so you are free to disagree. I'm just reporting my experience. Maybe it was a fluke piece of raw meat, but I guarantee it was tough.

Precisely my point. It's not natural to chew raw meats, just tear off bite-sized chunks and bolt it down. That's what I did, in the past with raw lung which is full of cartilage. As for claims re toughness of raw muscle-meat, I've never come across anything too tough that had to be cooked. Unless you count those irremovable left-over connective tissues left connected to the bone on leg of lamb/mutton, but those are so tiny they are not worth bothering with.
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1) I prefer not to use your bolting method, 2) this meat was too tough for me to tear and not worth the risk of potentially damaging some of my still-somewhat-fragile lower teeth, 3) I was eating with my parents who would likely have thought me insane if I used your tear-and-bolt method with a big, bloody piece of raw meat--just eating raw meat in front of them was probably about the max shock they could handle at the time, and 4) my parents ate their cooked meat much faster than I was eating my raw meat (until I later low-cooked mine), so they weren't impressed, unfortunately. Next time I'll use ground raw meat, which I can eat much faster with a spoon or fork than I can tough meat with a knife.

It's sad that  when eating a natural diet that people feel the need to avoid more natural methods of eating that same food. In my own case, I often just tear off with my teeth and bolt when by myself, but, of course, in public, I just select raw animal foods that don't require that method such as scallops or raw oysters.

I should mention that when I first started rawpalaeo, my teeth were practically about to fall off, so that I was absolutely terrified of chewing any raw muscle-meats in case my teeth came off. The result was that I was willing to age raw meats/organs for several days so as to soften them, plus I was more willing to eat the softer organs or softer raw animal food such as raw seafood, and I was forced to bolt down my raw foods without chewing.Once my teeth became really strong with this diet, I had no problems with chewing but didn't go back to it as I didn't feel the need any more.
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I don't consider RawZi necessarily "a very finicky kind of" person just because she used a knife. Nor do I consider people who chew their food to necessarily be very finicky. I do consider calling people very finicky for such minor, strange reasons to be insulting.

That's just absurd. "Finicky" is not a terribly wounding word, it just suggests that people who use knives/chew a lot are wasting their time, nothing more, and I wasn't singling our RawZi in particular, just you.
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Yes, that's the essence of my original point. I was using a knife at the time. A standard stainless steel steak knife wasn't even able to cut the meat, so I had to switch to a very sharp knife.
Well, if you feel you have to use a knife then fine,but it's then not accurate to suggest that raw meat is more difficult to eat, in a general sense.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 06:42:38 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline djr_81

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Re: Why Humans Outlive Apes
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2010, 06:48:09 am »
That's just absurd. "Finicky" is not a terribly wounding word, it just suggests that people who use knives/chew a lot are wasting their time, nothing more, and I wasn't singling our RawZi in particular, just you.
I've eaten both ways.
I chew my food as I get to enjoy the flavor of the raw meat more this way, even if it does take a bit longer. :)
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