Author Topic: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS  (Read 17543 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Paleo Donk

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 664
    • View Profile
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2010, 06:26:37 am »
William,  if it was entirely up to you, what would you feed your own kids knowing what you know today?

William

  • Guest
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2010, 07:41:57 am »


 
Did your "immune system" give you a stop when eating the crap of standard neolithic diet or SAD?



Yes, it did, but not in the mouth. Violent and terrifying heart arrhythmia was the most obvious symptom.
AFAIK only raw eaters get stops in the mouth, I guess that everyone else is so messed up that that warning system does not work.

William

  • Guest
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2010, 07:52:21 am »
William,  if it was entirely up to you, what would you feed your own kids knowing what you know today?

Pemmican and access to other raw stuff - ideally in an unpolluted environment, they would learn to hunt mice, trap rabbits and other animals. Choice/free will is important.
Anything one might find tasty while "naked with a stick" as Ray Audette put it, although I believe that paleoman was a pack hunter.


Modern prejudice from our burden of cultural baggage is a big problem with this - "The un-examined life is not worth living" as some wise person put it - so it is difficult to know if things taste good because they are good, or because of cultural mental/emotional conditioning

alphagruis

  • Guest
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2010, 06:05:26 pm »
Yes, it did, but not in the mouth. Violent and terrifying heart arrhythmia was the most obvious symptom.
AFAIK only raw eaters get stops in the mouth, I guess that everyone else is so messed up that that warning system does not work.

I agree, William, in the sense you attribute to the word "stop" I undoubtedly got one too. The most obvious unforgettable symptom in my case was the terrible pain that accompanied the repeated eliminations of kidney stones over a period of more than 15 years. Lex Rooker, who went recently through a similar adventure, knows what I'm talking about.

This kind of violent "stop" comes however much too late when the damage to our health is already much too important. Unfortunately.   

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2010, 07:17:17 am »
I agree, William, in the sense you attribute to the word "stop" I undoubtedly got one too. The most obvious unforgettable symptom in my case was the terrible pain that accompanied the repeated eliminations of kidney stones over a period of more than 15 years. Lex Rooker, who went recently through a similar adventure, knows what I'm talking about. ...
Interesting. So the stones stopped after 15 years? How long have you been stone-free?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2010, 07:32:49 am »
....Yet, please note that even if global warming is essentially a quite natural fluctuation, this does not mean that the man induced increase of carbon dioxide concentration in atmosphere has a priori no other effects or consequences. We just don't know yet.
...
Bill O'Reilly said it well:

"There is global warming! Oh, you far right people? It's happening! Now, I don't know why it's happening, Al Gore doesn't know why, only the Deity knows. But I think if the Deity were here, He would say, or She, 'The less gook in the air, the better! I didn't create gook! When I created the earth, there was no gook in the air! You pinheads! You put it in there! Not Me. If I wanted gook, I woulda created it."


It seems to me that even if there is no global warming, why would we want to feck with a nature we don't fully understand by pouring enormous amounts of pollutants into it? Do we think we're smarter than nature/creator?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline MMD

  • Forager
  • *
  • Posts: 9
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2010, 01:09:14 am »
Bill O'Reilly said it well:

"There is global warming! Oh, you far right people? It's happening! Now, I don't know why it's happening, Al Gore doesn't know why, only the Deity knows. But I think if the Deity were here, He would say, or She, 'The less gook in the air, the better! I didn't create gook! When I created the earth, there was no gook in the air! You pinheads! You put it in there! Not Me. If I wanted gook, I woulda created it."


It seems to me that even if there is no global warming, why would we want to feck with a nature we don't fully understand by pouring enormous amounts of pollutants into it? Do we think we're smarter than nature/creator?

Volcanoes produce many, many times more pollution than man.  Nature apparently produces all kinds of pollution and yet life continues.

alphagruis

  • Guest
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2010, 01:47:49 am »
Interesting. So the stones stopped after 15 years? How long have you been stone-free?

During the period 1984-1999 I've repeatedly expelled kidney stones and experienced numerous episodes of nephretic colics. As shown by regular scans ( every 6-12 months) new stones formed systematically...

The stones stopped in 1999 after I had changed my diet to raw paleo in december 1998. Six months after beginning raw paleo the scans showed that no new stones had formed for the first time after 15 years...

I'm stone-free ever since. :)

Very impressive



« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 01:54:18 am by alphagruis »

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2010, 01:49:21 am »
Volcanoes produce many, many times more pollution than man.  Nature apparently produces all kinds of pollution and yet life continues.
So more is better?

Impressive indeed Alphagruis.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

alphagruis

  • Guest
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2010, 02:30:08 am »
Volcanoes produce many, many times more pollution than man.  Nature apparently produces all kinds of pollution and yet life continues.

That's just non-sense ! Volcanoes do not produces phtalates for instance or a lot of man-made chemicals that never existed in nature. Or much radioactivity. Or fertilizers that pollute groundwater. Or etc... Moreover even mercury pollution for instance comes largely from coal powerplants and much less from volcanoes. It is absurd to believe that we can just ignore the pollution produced by 6+ billions agrarians.

Sure life will continue but what kind of life? Are you aware that the most fragile forms of life on earth are precisely the multicellular organisms? And that we are one of them?

Yes lower forms of life such as bacteria or other microorganisms will certainly continue. No problem. Man ,I'm not so sure.   

Offline goodsamaritan

  • Administrator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,785
  • Gender: Male
  • Geek Healer Truth Seeker Pro-Natal Pro-Life
    • View Profile
    • Filipino Services Inc.
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2010, 05:52:43 am »
During the period 1984-1999 I've repeatedly expelled kidney stones and experienced numerous episodes of nephretic colics. As shown by regular scans ( every 6-12 months) new stones formed systematically...

The stones stopped in 1999 after I had changed my diet to raw paleo in december 1998. Six months after beginning raw paleo the scans showed that no new stones had formed for the first time after 15 years...

I'm stone-free ever since. :)

Very impressive





I am so very interested in this personal achievement of yours Alphagruis.  Do you have a prepared story / press release / article about your kidney stone cure with raw paleo diet?

What form of raw paleo diet did you start on and are doing now and for how long?

How much raw meat, how much raw fat, which animals, which vegetables, which fruits.

Please tell....
Linux Geek, Web Developer, Email Provider, Businessman, Engineer, REAL Free Healer, Pro-Life, Pro-Family, Truther, Ripple-XRP Fan

I'm the network administrator.
My business: Website Dev & Hosting and Email Server Provider,
My blogs: Cure Manual, My Health Blog, Eczema Cure & Psoriasis Cure

alphagruis

  • Guest
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2010, 09:22:21 pm »
I am so very interested in this personal achievement of yours Alphagruis.  Do you have a prepared story / press release / article about your kidney stone cure with raw paleo diet?

What form of raw paleo diet did you start on and are doing now and for how long?

How much raw meat, how much raw fat, which animals, which vegetables, which fruits.

Please tell....

Well, Goodsamaritan, I'm afraid it's not a personal achievement, just one of those miracles RPD is capable to achieve. I had only to acknowledge the phenomenon and the fact that we don't really understand how or why it works, just to recognize that it works.
By the end of 1998 I was fairly desperate after so many years of terrible periodic suffering (nephretic colics typically once every  year) and so I was willing to try anything once. It was instinctonutrition as developed by G-C Burger here in France.
Though I never actually followed the specific rules of instincto (eat only what smells and tastes best) I have been on RPD from december 1998 on and ever since. Strictly, with not a single "cooked" cheat since because I'm a physicist and wanted to do a meaningful experiment. Well after about 6 months on this diet the "kidney stones factory that my organism used to be had stopped it's production". That's it, after all what may I add?

Well some details about diet:

The kind of raw paleo diet I was on now for 11 years is basically omnivore with initially and on average about 40% fruit, berries and nuts, olives, avocados.. 20% weggies and 40% food of animal kingdom (meat and fat of boar- fatty ribs of boar is still my favorite-, lamb, beef and other game when available, eggs, crabs, shrimps, fatty fish, shellfish etc). Over the years the diet changed progressively to a larger proportion of animal food (around 70-80 % now) that replaced the fruits not because I wanted to do that for theoretical reasons but just because fruits and sweet taste became less and less attractive and fatty meats or fish became more attractive. I have also observed that I need now much less calories and food than initially without any loss of weight (BMI=22.3 stable). With respect to fruit I add that I have absolutely no history of diabetes, all tests normal, even when I was on standard neolithic diet. This might explain that I'm able to do fairly well with a substantial quantity of fruit.    
    

Offline goodsamaritan

  • Administrator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,785
  • Gender: Male
  • Geek Healer Truth Seeker Pro-Natal Pro-Life
    • View Profile
    • Filipino Services Inc.
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2010, 10:28:11 pm »
Oh wow!  Thank you so much... brain food.... ahhh... satisfied.
Linux Geek, Web Developer, Email Provider, Businessman, Engineer, REAL Free Healer, Pro-Life, Pro-Family, Truther, Ripple-XRP Fan

I'm the network administrator.
My business: Website Dev & Hosting and Email Server Provider,
My blogs: Cure Manual, My Health Blog, Eczema Cure & Psoriasis Cure

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2010, 10:59:04 pm »
Fascinating stuff, thanks for sharing your story Alphagruis. How did you first hear about instinctonutrition?

I have no history of diabetes, yet I still don't do well when eating substantial fruit for some reason. The problems manifest in other ways. If anything, my problem with blood sugar had been having it go too low to hypoglycemia before lunchtime, sometimes to the point of mild tremors in my left arm and hand. I don't get that any more, though I do still get moderately hungry during the day if I don't eat lunch.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

alphagruis

  • Guest
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2010, 01:09:00 am »
Fascinating stuff, thanks for sharing your story Alphagruis. How did you first hear about instinctonutrition?

I have no history of diabetes, yet I still don't do well when eating substantial fruit for some reason. The problems manifest in other ways. If anything, my problem with blood sugar had been having it go too low to hypoglycemia before lunchtime, sometimes to the point of mild tremors in my left arm and hand. I don't get that any more, though I do still get moderately hungry during the day if I don't eat lunch.

I first read the book by Jean Seignalet "L'alimentation ou la troisième médecine" in 1997-1998. By then you may imagine that I read eagerly everything that could give me a clue to find out what was wrong with my kidneys. This book was published in the mid 90's and referred heavily to the original work and ideas of Burger. I subsequently read the book by Burger "Manger vrai". The overall sound reasoning in these books about neolithic foods and cooking striked me and I decided to try instincto.

As to blood sugar homeostasis I agree. Even in the absence of diabetes there may be serious less apparent damage. I neither suffered from diabetes nor other related ailments such as hypoglycemia. My friend Carnivore is another exemple of raw paleo dieter that does not well when he eats a substantial amount of fruit. These differences are certainly a matter of difference in genetics. Well fruit seems not indispensable in contrast to food of animal origin and so you can limit or exclude them. It is not  unlikely that your tolerance of fruit may improve in the future.           

Offline roony

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2010, 08:39:14 am »
Most unlikely, there are no bones showing marks of war.
They had no reason for war, nothing to steal, too far to walk, etc.



 
There was no evolution in the paleolithic. That's why we try to eat a paleo diet.
Nobody cares if or whether hominids (apes) evolved then.



They were not paleolithic.




William makes some interesting points here, for example cavemen were generally unchanged for millions of years, being one of the main factors we thrive on raw meats


Also most tribes were peaceful, the only recorded & dated events were after european & other foreign factors interfered in their cultures, obviously wiped from our history books, for example europeans were visiting America, decades before columbus supposedly discovered america, most notably the templars & before them the romans


Also native americans dont have much to do with the paleo era


Also its a pity, people like alphagrius seem to have picked up the depopulation pollution nonsense

Modern industrial civilisation makes up a very small percentage of the total 6+ billion, a large portion of our civilisation is still very much rural & primitive & we still only occupy only about 8% of the total livable landmass on this planet

I'm not holding out though, i havent met any rational depopulation, pollution we're killing the world advocates yet lol

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2010, 06:42:44 pm »
I'm afraid you're mistaken. Tribes practised perpetual warfare in the palaeolithic era. And I've already provided adequate evidence to show that Native Americans practised constant warfare with each other pre-contact with Europeans.

I find such naive, noble-savage claims amusing as anyone with any real knowledge of history knows about the bloodthirsty Aztecs among others , indulging in human sacrifices etc.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline roony

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2010, 11:38:53 pm »
My whole point is, this pre contact nonsense is false, europeans & asians have always been in contact with primitives, america wasnt magically discovered by columbus


History & anthropology are purely political, & usually wildly inaccurate


You have to be pretty naive to quote those sources as being accurate lol

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2010, 11:47:28 pm »
The evidence is pretty good, I'm afraid. And it doesn't seem exactly likely that native americans suddenly started raiding each other constantly only after columbus arrived.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline roony

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 401
    • View Profile
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2010, 12:07:37 am »
So you prescribe to no one knowing about america before columbus? lol ... even though its been there for millions of years?

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: COMMON CRITICISMS DIRECTED AT PALEO DIET PROPONENTS
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2010, 12:12:48 am »
So you prescribe to no one knowing about america before columbus? lol ... even though its been there for millions of years?
  I didn't say that at all. I simply said that people had worked out what life was like before Columbus. Science isn't as flawed as you claim in this regard.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk