Paleo and fructose

[William]

Interesting article on the effect of fructose consumption:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/

If it's not still on the main page when you read this, search phrase is the subject line above.

[TylerDurden]

sigh*. This belongs in the raw zero carb thread, not the  raw omnivorous one.

[William]

Consuming fructose is zero carb?

[TylerDurden]

Consuming fructose is zero carb?

There's precious little evidence in favour of (non-refined) fructose being harmful in any way and since the zero-carbers are the anti-fructose fanatics, it's more appropriate to put anti-fructose studies/claims in the latter forum.

[miles]

Why, in The Bible, was the tree-fruit forbidden?

[goodsamaritan]

William, maybe you meant this link?

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/01/paleo-and-fructose.html

Consuming fructose is not zero carb.  It only means that the logic of putting this topic in zero carb forum is that it reinforces the convictions of zero carbers to stay away from fruit.

[wodgina]

There's precious little evidence in favour of (non-refined) fructose being harmful in any way and since the zero-carbers are the anti-fructose fanatics, it's more appropriate to put anti-fructose studies/claims in the latter forum.

RZCarbers are just anti-everything fanatics.

[William]

RZCarbers are just anti-everything fanatics.

RZCarbers are desperate people who have found a way of healing. None of us would do this if there were another way, and you people accusing us of fanaticism are heartless assholes.

[goodsamaritan]

RZCarbers are desperate people who have found a way of healing. None of us would do this if there were another way, and you people accusing us of fanaticism are heartless assholes.

William, you have to cool down.  Wodgina is on zerocarb just like you.

[RawZi]

Why, in The Bible, was the tree-fruit forbidden?

    Because it wasn't an apple, it was a fig.  

Fruit with seed, the flesh thereof shall be for man's food.

We weren't allowed to eat seeds.  Eating seeds gave us some protein, and then we had to procreate.  I mean, if human life started in a hot all year round climate, it couldn't have been an apple tree.

    or

    There is more meaning to every word in that part of the Bible than anyone knows.

    or

    The Bible is not factual, but written by a ZC'er.  (which if it were written by God the father makes sense as he did not eat food)

    or

    The Bible can mean anything you want it to.

    or

    Etc.

    

    

[redfulcrum]

There's no such thing as true zero carb.  Even if you eat meat you're getting carbs.  Either glycogen or the carbs in their guts.  On top of that, your body turns protein and fat into carbs.  Mothers make carbs in their breasts.  No glucose, no animals. 

[RawZi]

There's no such thing as true zero carb.  Even if you eat meat you're getting carbs.  Either glycogen or the carbs in their guts.  On top of that, your body turns protein and fat into carbs.  Mothers make carbs in their breasts.  No glucose, no animals.  

    How do fats get turned into carbs?

    What about long term water only fasting, I'm making carbs then too?

    And Richard Blackman, the breathatarian, are you saying he's making air into sugar or that he's eating on the side?

    I think we only need about 5% carbs from our diets, which we can get from protein.

    Do RawZC mothers give lactose reduced milk?

[William]

William, maybe you meant this link?

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/01/paleo-and-fructose.html

Consuming fructose is not zero carb.  It only means that the logic of putting this topic in zero carb forum is that it reinforces the convictions of zero carbers to stay away from fruit.

Yes, same as the subject line.

Reinforcing convictions is not what i do. I leave that to kind of political information management to TD.

The study could be useful to those trying to determine the right fructose intake. The writer appears to be an honest scientist doing critical analysis, and he is not preaching.
 It does not belong in zero carb.

[Nation]

    And Richard Blackman, the breathatarian

I remember that name. He posted on this raw vegan forum i used to read, in his posts he sounded mad that he wasn't considered a teacher/guru so he couldn't make a living out of raw veganism, i guess there was too much competition, there can only be so many gurus. So what do you do in that case? You try to be more hardcore than all the other gurus and invent a new movement such as the 80/10/10 diet or the 30-banana a day diet from Durianrider (my favorite of the bunch). Looks like Blackman did the same thing with this breatharian thing, whatever that is. I googled for more info and he apparently changed his name to Jericho Sunfire LOL!

[wodgina]

Having to resort to such a socially unacceptable diet such as RZC you have to be desperate. I think TD was flaming.

[Hannibal]

How do fats get turned into carbs?

From glycerol - from 100 g of fats the body makes 10 g of glucose

I think we only need about 5% carbs from our diets, which we can get from protein.

It depends upon the mental and physical activity.
One can need over 100 g of carbs it that activity is bigger, so that could be 10-15%

[carnivore]

Yes, same as the subject line.

Reinforcing convictions is not what i do. I leave that to kind of political information management to TD.

The study could be useful to those trying to determine the right fructose intake. The writer appears to be an honest scientist doing critical analysis, and he is not preaching.
 It does not belong in zero carb.

Fructose and carbs does not exist alone in nature. As long as ZCers will talk about something that does not really exist, they can't be listen seriously.
Yes, Peter at Hyperlipid is not preaching, contrary to ZCers or many extreme dieters...

[TylerDurden]

Let's face it, we wouldn't tolerate an anti-raw post in the general discussions forum so putting an anti-fructose topic in anywhere but the zero-carb forum is similiarly unacceptable. Besides, this is just a silly trollish post by William, pure propaganda, nothing of substance.

[goodsamaritan]

Come on guys, let's analyze the chart.

The blogpost and diet chart is insane.
This is what the blogger posted as "fructose."
No idiot would be able to stand that much sweetness at any column.

breakfast: Honey + Pineapple as the first column?  Insane already.
breakfast: Honey + Pineapple + Carrot Juice?  Who's leg is he pulling?

in his multiple meal day he adds more carrot juice, more honey, then oranges!!!!!

Now I know this blogger is trolling.... and making fun of carbs by showing extremmmmeeeee stuff.

I did my vegan, fruitarian and wai diet times and didn't do this insanity then.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xlflFL230eI/S1BrRgW8I6I/AAAAAAAAAtk/3-o_uBZr3xk/s1600-h/HG+fructose+diet+Table+2.jpg

The commercial branded pineapples my country exports to your countries is absolutely not paleo.  It's too darn sweet, tastes full of chemicals, it's not even sold by our street vendors.  Even the natural pineapple the street vendors sell, a sane person can only eat a slice.

Carrot juice?  Where in the world is carrot juice paleo?

Honey, even wild honey, do any of us really eat honey multiple times per day?  I put less than a tablespoon in my cool calamansi / lemon juice with cool water. 

[William]

Come on guys, let's analyze the chart.

The blogpost and diet chart is insane.
This is what the blogger posted as "fructose."
No idiot would be able to stand that much sweetness at any column.

It looks like the Primal Diet recommended by Aajonus Vonderplanitz, respected by members of this forum, including me at one time. I ate some of that, for instance a pineapple (Hawaiian, Dole) once a month, and lived.
While TD does not respect AV, he does eat neolithic fruit/low fat, so that this info could be useful to those who eat fruit and is not an attack on anyone (except paranoids who see attacks where nobody else does).

For those who read the whole thing, the author is not warning against fruit, on the contrary, see quote below. The only negative comment is about something called a "Big Gulp".

"Back to the first query: For those wanting to avoid ketosis when unable to tolerate starch. Some fruit seems relatively benign. You can get away with moderate amounts of fructose for years before it gets you, probably half a lifetime. Unless you make Big Gulps your only significant source of calories."

[jessica]

even reading that "diet" menu made my teeth ache
although i agree potassium is awesome and sometimes feel a craving...what is a good legit paleo source?  assuming we are talking about "real raw biologically proper and balanced honey" does this lend to increased potassium absorption and that is why it is suggested?

[goodsamaritan]

It looks like the Primal Diet recommended by Aajonus Vonderplanitz, respected by members of this forum, including me at one time. I ate some of that, for instance a pineapple (Hawaiian, Dole) once a month, and lived.
While TD does not respect AV, he does eat neolithic fruit/low fat, so that this info could be useful to those who eat fruit and is not an attack on anyone (except paranoids who see attacks where nobody else does).

For those who read the whole thing, the author is not warning against fruit, on the contrary, see quote below. The only negative comment is about something called a "Big Gulp".

"Back to the first query: For those wanting to avoid ketosis when unable to tolerate starch. Some fruit seems relatively benign. You can get away with moderate amounts of fructose for years before it gets you, probably half a lifetime. Unless you make Big Gulps your only significant source of calories."

No this is not recommended by Aajonus, it does not look like anything Aajonus would recommend.
Aajonus absolutely warns to eat only one serving of fruit a day.
Aajonus also tried fruitarian and knows the folly of too much fruit.

[RawZi]

No this is not recommended by Aajonus, it does not look like anything Aajonus would recommend.
Aajonus absolutely warns to eat only one serving of fruit a day.
Aajonus also tried fruitarian and knows the folly of too much fruit.

    I second that.  Scrambled eggs, chicken breast stir-fry with broccoli, orange juice, tuna with radish and roasted parsnips among others are absolutely not primal diet dishes.  I see so many people fail the diet without ever having read any of his books or anything.  It's not easy.  There's a lot of reading you have to do to get the concept, and even then ...

[TylerDurden]

While TD does not respect AV, he does eat neolithic fruit/low fat, so that this info could be useful to those who eat fruit and is not an attack on anyone (except paranoids who see attacks where nobody else does).

 You just lied about my diet which is actually rawpalaeo and high-fat. 2nd warning.

[William]

  You just lied about my diet which rawpalaeo and high-fat. 2nd warning.

The purpose of flaming is to provoke someone so much that he will respond with something for which he can be banned.
For instance, moving an obvious (if you actually read the study) fruit post to a meat section can annoy the OP.

If the OP does not so respond, the flamer can pretend that he did, and if he is a moderator he can then  ban the OP.


goodsamaritan, this is happening here.