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Offline KD

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Journalistica
« on: March 07, 2010, 04:15:07 am »
I wasn't sure I was going to go back to 100% RAF but I'm now on Day 10 , and figured I should start a journal at least for my own personal benefit regarding symptoms and such.  

I've done RAF before and most currently have been on a diet of meats (mostly cooked, some raw) with raw, cooked, and cultured vegetables and other fats for 5-6 weeks. I've been back eating raw butter for over 2 weeks. I have history of various illness both mild and severe but most currently have been dealing with very low energy, tiredness in the eyes, and some concentration issues which I assumed to be candida related, esp based on prior illness. I started the eating regime and taking threelac probiotics (which I have mixed feelings about) but I seemed to be doing somewhat better than I was, and over the last week or so, even more improvement in regards to energy etc...but still probably far below 'normal'. I assume at this point I'm in at least a mild ketosis, but due to the candida issue I'm wary of backtracking on my progress by any raw carbs. I did try some unheated honey, but am going to go a few more days before eatng it again to determine if its problematic. I don't have any digestive issues that I'm aware of.

Through this time I've still manged to work out 3-5 days a week, and feel good doing that, but often as soon as I eat my energy seems to drop throughout the day. raw has diminished this somewhat.

I've also been losing weight and this was a serious problem last time I did RAF, although In the last week and a half I'm eating more calorically speaking then ever probably, and perhaps havn't lost much more (at least numerically, hard to say because my elimnation hasn't been the best)

I don't log what I eat daily, but this is what has been used up this week

3 lbs pastured butter - 9600 cal

1.2 lbs suet - 4500 cal

< 2X dozen eggs minus some whites : ~1500 cal

avocado 2-3: 600 cal

1 lb beef or lamb x 7 days = ~7000 cal

vegetable juice and occasional cabbage kraut - ~800-1000 cal



on total that works out to 3445 cal/day, which I think for 6 ft./165 lbs should yield some pretty steady gain. Its really not possible for me to eat much more comfortably.


I'm a bit disappointed with the availability of quality animal foods, but at the same time, doing a good job of not being so fearful of less than optimal foods

Usually the number of WF near me has some availability of fairly inexpensive grass fed cuts, but some weeks they don't stock much or possibly sells out or something. Unfortunately for me these happen to be the weeks I've been back on 100% raw, and have been eating New Zealand lamb and grass fed ground beef. The suet this week was also from WF and unmarked so I assume it was at least partially grain-fed. I mostly got it just to make sure it was a viable/digestible fat for me before possibly ordering from another supplier, but it did seem to work and although it was so cheap I could have easily just disposed of it, I enjoyed it enough to add it to all my meals.

I've been trying to get in touch with local farms, and it seems like there are a few who are actually pasturing their meat 100% when possible and abstain from all grain feed for a winter feed of various hays and grasses. Unfortunately for whatever reasons its still impossible to obtain a fresh unfrozen product. Today I went out of my way to go to a farmers market that had a few farms I wasn't able to contact, but the situation was the same. I did buy a few lbs of frozen beef, frozen liver, and frozen pig suet. I've had raw pork before, but as of now, I'm only currently defrosting the other two :)

I'm really both flexible and weary when it comes to any absolutes about diet and healing, and am glad that although people have their own beliefs and experiences, that multiple approaches and ideas are being embraced within such a small group.



« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 04:20:15 am by KD »

Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 04:50:58 am »
The other options in my area are fresh local seafoods, which sounds good in theory, but I personally don't think Atlantic seafood is very tasty raw. I ate a ton of raw cod last year and the thought of it makes me a little squeamish, same with scallops, and can't figure out how to open bivalves without endangering myself. The more colorful fish like tuna and salmon are great of course, but not local + expensive. even the local caught stuff is more expensive than grass fed beef anyway.


Also worth journaling is I'm in a relationship, and that makes RAF somewhat tricky. although I havn't really been in a restaurant friendly diet for many years, so there isn't much difference other than the general stigma and requirement to be near my house at least daily. I did try for awhile to take her out places where I could get some decent wild caught fish, or some kind of non-gluten grains and vegetables, but that ended 6 weeks ago when I cut of all grains again. She doesn't really even understand that part, and is always offering me stuff that she knows I don't eat. I try to do what I can to be open to her and make things less awkward or just be generous like making her stuff she likes to eat and so forth and go without eating, but I don't feel comfortable eating in front of her yet. I've always had trouble with that, and last year living in an apartment with SAD eaters I ate 100% of my meals outside, often rather eating RAF in public than with people I knew.

I decided to take her to a sushi place on Thursday hopefully as a nice surprise, and feel like I made a good decision even though I think restaurant sashimi is crap food.

I stuck with the Tunas and Mackerel hoping these would be at least wild caught and indeed raw, and brought some butter so I could feel more satiated. I had already pretty much had 'dinner' anyway. She's just incorporating fish into her veg diet, so I think it was really fun for her. Well, I guess that is one step in the right direction :/


Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 05:32:54 am »
Latest pic. My 'muscles' have been shrinking in size along with my weight loss, maybe a visible 10 lbs in 2 mo (not all RAF - see above). Although I would be content with keeping this build if my other health issues resolved, my ideal would be to have a bit more size and more vascular.

Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 11:33:48 am »
So the last few days I've been eating the local frozen pastured stuff I got, quite a bit of liver, some marrow and a really fatty shank. The fat was interspersed throughout the muscle, which I've never seen in the bone-in cuts I've gotten from WF. It was hard to cut up, and the fat around the edge was almost impossible to eat in some places. Other than that I seemed to have no problems digesting the frozen meat thus far. The liver certainly isn't something I'd like to eat on its own, its fine as a mix I suppose but looking forward to it being finished :). had over 1 lb already

Last night I popped some more HCL tabs (2), which I've been experimenting with even though the original 'test' showed my levels to be fine. boy this was a mistake, I had terrible heartburn, which I can't remember having in many years, perhaps this had to do with popping them after I started eating? who knows but just a warning for folks taking them not to take too much I suppose.

As for other symptoms, I've had some phlegm and some soreness/gross tasting feeling in my throat/tongue. My tongue doesn't look too bad overall in terms of coating, especially since I'm still pretty confident I'm dealing with candida issues. I ate 2 kiwis today, and other than some cut papaya I ate last week was the first fruits/non-green carbs I've had in 5-6 weeks. I did have some ear itchyness this evening, which very well could be due to the kiwis, but I've been getting it on an off over while doing VLC anyway so who knows. As I already mentioned, according to conventional carb intake, I should be in at least a mild ketosis, and I don't know how I feel about that. My urin is very bubbly but not necessarily dark, sometimes its almost clear + bubbly. on the plus side as soon as I ate the two small fruits it triggered a bowel movement, which was good because my elimination has been slow, no pain or discomfort, but especially since I'm still taking the probiotics, I get more concerned about less than regular movements. As for those, I doubt they are really doing much good with my current diet, and thinking of just mega-dosing on the rest just to see what happens. I got a 60 day supply (threelac) and they suggest not doing this, but some people build up to taking 3 or more. I think I've been on it over 5 weeks but take 2/day sometimes, and was thinking of doing 2 days of 5, and then taking the rest again daily for a few days.

Still more frustration with my markets, went to WF today and had to get more New Zealand Lamb as there was no GF cuts. I'll probably start eating more fish again.

very thankful for the sun! I try to spend as many hours in the high sun this time of year, and when summer hits I don't have to worry about burning and such. Last summer I got very little sun, and didn't have the cash to go anywhere sunny this winter so I'm probably vitD defficient.

The sun is also a great detoxifier, I've noticed some mild headaches and such just last couple of days. As for other detox, In additon to the mouth/gross situation other detox symptoms of note have been tooth pain (no single tooth, seems to shift around the mouth) which in the past has been common with detox and also internal gasses, so it could also be due to poor elimination.

still havn't defrosted the pig suet, going to wait till  other symptoms go away before troubleshooting how it works for me.

Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2010, 10:42:59 am »
Went out to dinner again with the GF, I'm trying not to be too rigid this time around with being 100% raw but abstained from eating. I'm weary of doing anything that upsets my candida issue, or whatever situation that seems to be significantly improving going without any carbs - other than the veggie juice in the mornings. It was a thai place and I know from experience that their particular seafood is poor quality and cooked with all kinds of crap, seafood being the only thing I might consider getting in a restaurant these days - even before I started doing all raw again. Hopefully at some point I can handle some cooked starch from time to time if necessary.

eating somewhat less this week it seems, less butter and no suet in the last 4 days or so but ate that lb or more of liver, marrow, and some fattier meat. I havn't crunched any numbers, but I imagine this can be around 500 cal difference per day. Luckily this hasn't manifested in any weight loss. I've actually been gaining numerically already, but I suspect its somewhat skewed by my infrequent elimination. Still no pains or bloating or such, but perhaps there is some way to shift my intake to yield 'better' results, althrough from what I gather my 'schedule' seems pretty average just consuming meat and fats. The probiotics I take might also factor in negatively with this, and havn't determined what I'll do with the remainder. I'm fermenting a cracked egg in a small Ball jar in the fridge, after 5 days its already pretty smelly, so that can be my probiotic in 6 weeks.

got out on the bike today, afterwards was the first time in awhile I've had some cravings for sweet juicy things. Lifting doesn't seem to have this effect so it could be due to hydration. I feel somewhat deyhdrated sometimes but it is not severe, my lips stay pink and smooth unlike in the past doing Primal where I got really dry/chapped lips. I drink a few glasses of tap mixed with mineral water a day in addition to the veg juice in the morning, and eat alot of the butter, seems to work ok, drinking more water doesn't seem to help much, so we'll see what happens. some tooth/bone pains have gone away for the time being, which furthers my suspicions based on past detox, as signs of gasses and such shifting in the body. My teeth if anything look whiter already :)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2010, 11:21:05 am by KD »

Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2010, 01:10:09 am »
I mentioned in another thread a detox triggered by fish/light eating

http://www.rawpaleoforum.com/carnivorous-zero-carb-approach/digestion/msg31651/#msg31651

I thought I was already recuperating when I wrote this but I ended up with a most massive throbbing headache last evening. I've been doing raw/various detox for 4 years, and I still have no tolerance for headaches. The night prior when symptoms were already starting, I had to move a bunch of crap and dropped a 200 lb object on my finger and it literally just burst open (it already has healed fairly well) but regardless I would rather experience that 1000 times over than a debilitating head throb every half a second that doesn't end until I'm lucky enough to fall alseep.

Other than the discomfort, I'm somewhat concerned, because as I've mentioned in my intro thread I'm still taking a pharmaceutical which I can't afford to leech from my system right now. For awhile I was back consuming some cooked foods to slow down detox, but then I ran into the suspected candida issues, then turned to just cooked meats and vegetables along with the raw foods, but that didn't work well for me either. So now I'm sorta at a loss on how to keep my system strait doing 100% raw or some healthful variation. I figured just taking the medicine would hamper serious detox quite a bit, but judging by the headaches and also occasional heart palpitations (which other than anxiety which I thankfully don't have, is usual drug residue coursing through the body) and other symptoms this is not the case.

on the plus side my elimination has been far better, having very full and dense movements without effort.

I also finally caught a day when WF had fresh grass-fed cuts and stocked up. I think abstaining from fish and chicken for awhile is still the smart move.

Still unsure about the low carbs/ketosis thing. still just consuming the one small veg juice in the mornings, which is probably what like 15g carbs? and some lemon juice in water.

Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2010, 09:21:01 am »
Well, I seem to be running into the same issues as last time with RAF, mainly weight loss and dehydration. On the latter, I usually do consume alot less water doing the diet, but even when I increasing my water intake: mineral, filtered, lemon water etc...it doesn't seem to make much a difference. This has been exacerbated this week by lots of physical activity doing moving work where I having been going long periods without eating. I know in AV world that fats are supposed to be hydrating and eaten often, and other things like tomatoes and cucumbers and juices such which for me are way too expensive to use in such a fashion. I still do a regular 16 oz or so juice in the AM. my lips today are not chapped but are like bright red/inflamed which I think is probably worse?

ever since a week ago when I started doing seafood again and ran into some kind of digestive issues, whether it be detox or something else, I havn't been able to eat very much, and thats starting to get really troubling for me as this same pattern happened last year. I seem to be able to drop weight faster eating animal foods than any other low cal diet if I am not on top of my eating and not gaining unless I'm eating more than I care for. It hard to figure with water weight and any colon back up or whatever but I started at around 165, and with the diet in the original post within 2 weeks I was showing at around 170 and now its down to 160, and it definitely shows visibly.

I actually injured my abdominal muscle on sat after the digestive issues started, and since then still have pain in that area and its hard to tell what is what, I've had some foul smelling gas and occasional other digestive gurgles and such which are very rare for me to have on any diet. Doing the physical lifting the last few days has been a bitch.

My GF and I might plan some sort of trip next week and I have no idea how that could possibly go down, I'm getting really neurotic about this stuff and worried about reversing the progress I'm made re:candida protocol even though my prior diet was pretty limited as was. as far as travel goes.

I was talking to another RAFer about honey and how it gave me symptoms, and he pulled the whole "Candida is there because of the toxicity, it is beneficial" spiel which I'm aware of, but that still doesn't mean one can eat a bunch of sugar that feeds overgrowth. I've had major improvement regarding energy, that adding honey, fruits or cooked starches would seem to put me right back where I was only 10 lbs lighter :/ . So i'm pretty frustrated I suppose.

Offline djr_81

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 07:06:32 pm »
KD; I'm 6'-3" and began eating RAF at ~180 pounds. I dropped down to 170 pounds not long into RAF. For me this seems a natural setpoint when eating right even though it is a bit low in bodyfat stores IMO. Maybe 160 is just your body's setpoint?
When eating food I was allergic to, as well as when eating carbs but avoiding allergens, my body would retain water. I'm assuming this was to protect itself but it adds false weight on the scale as well.
How is your energy doing? If it's good, and you don't have other issues cropping up, I wouldn't worry. As you continue strength training you'll naturally add bulk back onto your frame.

FWIW, I too just went through a pretty vicious stomach bug which took over a week to resolve itself. At the worst of it I had dozens of bowel movements a day. Felt like hell going through it but I feel great now. I'm still not sure if it was a virus or salmonella (we've got turtles and don't bother to wash with soap after handling) but it lets me know I'm not invincible to getting sick, just have a better immune system which will temper the severity. :)
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Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2010, 07:21:34 am »
well, sure there is some truth to that as my body has always been natural thin, and has taken some effort to manipulate my weight and put on muscle. At the same time there is some minimum I need to eat in order to stay stable, and even that - especially this week when not feeling great - takes effort. Last spring on RAF I continued to lose, probably getting down to around 145 or something. And recognize the bulk of the weight and muscle I've put on since this last experiment is toxic, even for the most part I was eating clean cooked foods. I've just gone through this up and down that its frustrating, although as I said somewhere here I think that I'd rather sacrifice my vanity and be thinner or less fit if that meant health and energy.

Energy wise, yeah I've been able to work long hard physical days without any food till evenings and getting up way earlier of course, which is considerable from just a few weeks ago and a huge step from where I was 6 months ago.


----


Other news I dug into that pastured pork suet. Its much different than the harder more crystalline suet (at least that I have gotten) from beef. This is more creamy - but a little stranger/less enjoyable taste - than muscle meat fat. Sill a littlr sketched by it, but eating butter and muscle meat is not even getting me over the 2000 mark these days and really need a cheaper animal fat source.

another frustrating shopping trip. no grass-fed cuts, so got a more expensive NZ cut than usual as the shanks are starting to make me wretch. I also got some buffalo which tastes great but is almost 3x the expense at $16/lb so just got enough for tonight.

I also had a little cut papaya from WF as an experiment, and I'm also trying to figure out what to do about this dehydration in addition to adding carbs somehow. The weight loss I gather might have to do with the ketosis in some fashion.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2010, 07:43:21 am »
Have you ever thought about dropping all vegetation or limiting it to just a few servings a week? Some people do notice a difference between vvlc and carnivore.

Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2010, 08:08:42 am »
Have you ever thought about dropping all vegetation or limiting it to just a few servings a week? Some people do notice a difference between vvlc and carnivore.

Honestly, my thoughts have been the reverse, esp regarding the hydration, but I'm aware of this phenomena. I dunno, energy wise there is improvement, mostly problems just in the dehydration and trouble sometimes getting enough to eat or assimilating. What were you thinking specifically this would shift?

I'm not really doing any whole vegetable matter at all, a handful of fruits in over 2months and some nuts or sauerkraut here and there.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2010, 08:20:09 am »
Yea, it might not matter much and you could easily be better suited going higher with your carb intake. I'm not sure I recall many members doing well with vegetable juice though. As for going carnivore, and as uninteresting as that sounds, having the body adapt to processing just one source of nutrition may help streamline it. A few members here do poorly even with small amounts of vegetation. Vegetation requires different kinds and amounts of bacteria to process optimally as well as different digestive juices. Basically, going carnivore could help you adapt to processing nutrition in a more efficient manner.

Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2010, 10:14:29 am »
I think I was overacting about the weight. My scale seems to be pretty arbitrary depending on how you stand on it, and its back reading around 165. Especially when I'm actually working out, everything looks fine and certainly not underweight. Although I did have almost an entire week of consuming well under 2000 cal, which needs to be avoided, so i'm trying to working things out without feeling forced to eat.

still having trouble with my WFs stocking GF meat. although they managed to stock a much cheaper cut of buffalo than usual, which I tend to enjoy more and is just like 2 bucks more than the cheapest GF cuts. Still eating with the pork suet and the raw butter. Occasionally I get some minor indigestion. It doesn't happen always so I don't know if it has to do with the pork, or not chewing enough or what. I got some great wild stripped bass that I also enjoyed, and some frozen stew meat that I bought from a farmer along with a heart and tongue.

not too much else to report, working on my lex box tonight and hoping to get that started in the next couple of days. I have this massive heart (3.5 lb) that I'm probably going to make mostly into jerky and save maybe half a lb for eating. and probably make buffalo as the cut is much longer than most gf cuts I can get if I can even get them. Still iffy on what to do with the tongue, because that is like 2.5 lbs. I guess its too fatty to put in the jerky box, but there is no way i'll be able to eat it up within a few days.

the only symptoms to report are slight increase in energy (being able to do all the physical work this week with ease), more bowel movements (some on the liquidy side), some stomach ills that feel more like muscle pulls (on top of the pulled abdomen that I did have from moving), and continued bubbly urine.

I'd really like to hear more on the last and whether this does indeed have to do with excess protein because from my basic calculations I'm eating alot of fat in contrast to muscle meat. In the epileptic thread Lex recommends 5 oz butter (if using butter) along with muscle meat for high ketogenic. I eat probably around that or more plus the pork suet and 4-6 eggs. and no more than the lb of muscle meat per day. I guess I should just go run the figures somewhere...

« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 10:25:31 am by KD »

Offline RawZi

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2010, 11:34:39 am »
the only symptoms to report are slight increase in energy (being able to do all the physical work this week with ease), more bowel movements (some on the liquidy side), some stomach ills that feel more like muscle pulls (on top of the pulled abdomen that I did have from moving), and continued bubbly urine.

    Bubbles?  Foam?  Protein in your urine?  Will you test it or have you?  It might be fine, I'm just asking.  Sorry if I missed reading something in your journal here and am asking an obsolete question.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline djr_81

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2010, 06:57:12 pm »
Still iffy on what to do with the tongue, because that is like 2.5 lbs. I guess its too fatty to put in the jerky box, but there is no way i'll be able to eat it up within a few days.
You can dehydrate a tongue but you need to know it'll still be highly perishable. I haven't done it in a Lex box either so I don't know how it'll work out. When I do it my Excalibur it dries out some and has a similar texture & mouth-feel to a thick slab of undercooked bacon.
The tongue is also graduated in it's fattiness. The back of the tongue is very fatty, the very tip is almost all lean. You could conceivably dry the front 1/3 of the tongue and have it keep well.
FWIW the tongue is so fatty and delicious that I make it a whole meal after it's warmed up in the dehydrator for a few hours. A 2 1/2 pound tongue should fill you up for the day IMO.
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Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 10:40:02 pm »
Rawzi, this is more conversation than concern yet, as I've read here in there in other blogs about bubbly urine. I havn't done any research myself (or even thoguht about tests yet) but someone pointed out they thought it had to do with excess protein. My understanding is SAD eaters almost always have bubbly urine that is also dark whereas vegans and others pride themselves on their clean water like elimination. I don't know if it has to do with excess protein intake or if it is more an indicator of older detox elimination/ketones, but even when my urine is clear it is very bubbly, and much more so than on any other diet.

djr: thanks, I probably will dry at least the front of the tougue. Just out of curiosity, what would you consider to be highly perishable, would you mean the same as if it was not dried, like within the week? If I could get it to last 2 weeks or so that would probably be enough, but who knows I might be able to consume the whole thing in a few days. BTW do you wash off the vacuum pack gunk before drying, or just consuming? thanks.

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2010, 11:26:33 pm »
    Bubbles?  Foam?  Protein in your urine?  Will you test it or have you?  It might be fine, I'm just asking.  Sorry if I missed reading something in your journal here and am asking an obsolete question.


I think they mean foam in the water in the toilet bowl. If there are bubbles in the stream, that implies gas under pressure, and there should be no such thing.

Amino acids (not protein) in piss should be normal for those who eat too high a proportion of meat:fat.

Offline RawZi

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 11:30:15 pm »
Amino acids (not protein) in piss should be normal for those who eat too high a proportion of meat:fat.

    Could be.

Rawzi, this is more conversation than concern yet, as I've read here in there in other blogs about bubbly urine. I havn't done any research myself (or even thoguht about tests yet) but someone pointed out they thought it had to do with excess protein. My understanding is SAD eaters almost always have bubbly urine that is also dark whereas vegans and others pride themselves on their clean water like elimination. I don't know if it has to do with excess protein intake or if it is more an indicator of older detox elimination/ketones, but even when my urine is clear it is very bubbly, and much more so than on any other diet.

    There's a South American old wives tale, that you can tell that a woman is pregnant, by finding she has bubbles on her urine.  So, now I'm thinking, as a pregnant woman's organs are stressed by functioning for her baby/ies in addition to herself and/or the babies/y pressing on her organs, maybe a SAD diet causes bubbles for stress reasons too.  I'm not saying stress is bad, just that it exists.  People get foamy urine with kidney disease where I believe their own proteins are breaking down.  This of course can happen with fasting too, or certain medications.
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Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2010, 11:43:14 pm »
hmm, well, yes I mean bubbly foam in the toilet.

William, that seems to be consistent with what I've read here, but My ratio seems higher than many who at least do not report the problem. Since you do ZC, are you saying this has nothing to do with ketosis and that your urine is clear?

Rawzi: I have to be particularly careful with my kidney's so perhaps even less than normal protein is warranted? I suspect as with fasting it has to do with ketones and other crap breaking down, and not soley on intake.

Offline RawZi

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2010, 11:52:43 pm »
Rawzi: I have to be particullary careful with my kidney's so perhaps even less than normal protein is warranted?

    I think raw animal protein is good for the kidneys, nourishing.  If you haven't tried eating kidneys, maybe you should try them.  They have a lot of good amino acids.  I'm thinking that either fermenting your meat more before you eat it might help your kidney health.  Aajonus has told some people to eat raw mushrooms with their raw meat sometimes, that it helps with the protein digestion.  Maybe there's a mushroom that's particularly good for your kidneys.  You and William could be right too, maybe less dietary protein is indicated for you.  I couldn't say though, as I don't know that.  I know I generally feel better when I stick with higher fat rather than higher protein.  The few bubbles you get now may be perfect.  I believe a little stress is required for good physical health, if stress is what causes it or causes anything else.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline djr_81

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2010, 03:19:14 am »
djr: thanks, I probably will dry at least the front of the tougue. Just out of curiosity, what would you consider to be highly perishable, would you mean the same as if it was not dried, like within the week? If I could get it to last 2 weeks or so that would probably be enough, but who knows I might be able to consume the whole thing in a few days. BTW do you wash off the vacuum pack gunk before drying, or just consuming? thanks.
It'll last at least a week either way. 2 weeks is pushing it if you want it to taste fresh but it should still be edible either way after two weeks. It's just got more fat to it so it changes flavor and smell faster than a leaner meat.
The perishability refers to try shelf-life without overt changes, such as a really dry jerky made from leaner meats which will quite happily sit for months before you eat it and you won't notice a difference. You're not trying to do this with the tongue so I wouldn't worry about it.
Sometimes I wash the meat off and sometimes I leave it alone. I usually rinse it though if I'm drying the meat...I guess out of habit? If it's from Slankers I recommend washing before drying it; I've had a lot of tongues which had loose hairs on them and while it doesn't bother me to find a hair in my food anymore I'm not intentionally eating them either. ;D
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Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2010, 12:16:16 am »
Finally got around to doing detailed calcs on my macronutrient percentage and so forth.

generally I seem to be around 18:04:78 p:c:f  129 g protein, 33 g carbs and 268 g fat, around 3000 cal.

to me, this isn't a particularly high amount of protein as quantity or percentage , so I still don't know what to make of the foamy urine.

this week I tried some more primal stuff, juicing carrots daily along with the celery and herbs I've been doing solo, and I had 1 piece of fruit a few days with fats so that put me at around 75% fat. I started with the bits of cheese before meals as a supposed pre meal digestive cleaning. I tried to do more than 1 juice a day but find it to be impractical, time wise and also I feel like I am micromanaging my day and don't seem to get much done other than eating and exercise and internet in between. I added more eggs to my juice (4 instead of 2), which seems to activate some kind of intestinal distress or 'cleaning'.


In general, it seems the higher amounts of carbs caused more fatigue than any benefit to being out of deeper ketosis that I had hoped, but I think I'll continue with the small amount of fruit at least.

--
I successfully dried some meat with the lex box. I had to modify a few things - some last minute after I had already cut the meat, which was stressful. FYI it doesn't seem that work lights are sold with a capacity for 100 watt or 150 watt bulbs anymore, I tried all kinds of hardware and automotive places and had to weight down a unshielded base of a clamp light held horizontally 1 inch off the ground. I also got thin, too short skewers which I tried first to reinforce and lengthen and even tape with electrical tape to the box structure, but they broke while in the box, so I built an X-type structure with these 15+ (too long) skewers on top and layed them out horizontally. With all the issues, I never ended up being able to defrost the heart and tongue that I had, which was basically the whole reason I wanted to dry stuff to begin with. ah well, at least I know it works, and I have a few lb of dried meat if needed. I would at least like to try the pemmican, but at this time only have access to pork fat now, which apparently is not great for these purposes. Does anyone kow if you have to air-pack the jerky like the pemmican?

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2010, 03:48:37 am »
Does anyone kow if you have to air-pack the jerky like the pemmican?

I don't think so. While my jerky doesn't stay unused long, I once dried (sun & wind) a fresh-caught salmon, and kept it in a paper bag on the shelf under the rear window of my car.
It was good for months. Jerky should last for at least as long, if it is thoroughly dried, and fat-free.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2010, 05:40:32 am »
Finally got around to doing detailed calcs on my macronutrient percentage and so forth.

generally I seem to be around 18:04:78 p:c:f  129 g protein, 33 g carbs and 268 g fat, around 3000 cal.

to me, this isn't a particularly high amount of protein as quantity or percentage , so I still don't know what to make of the foamy urine.


Even though the percentage is relatively low, the amount is still likely high enough that you are converting 40+ grams of amino acids every day to glucose. Even when energy usage is higher than normal, the amount of protein the body uses for repair is not going to increase incrementally as does need for energy.  For instance, if you were to expend 10k calories today. Your body certainly would not need 500g of protein (20% of energy). It would certainly need more than its normal days but I would guess even under these extreme circumstances it still would not need that much more.

Offline KD

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Re: Journalistica
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2010, 06:18:47 am »
thanks, this makes sense, although it still doesn't strike me that 3000 cal is a particularly high amount of energy that would distort the relationship. As for going to 90g protein, this would mean cutting down to around 2/3 lb of lean a day (with the eggs and juice contributing to the rest). I'm not arguing and interested to hear your personal low protein experiments, it just seems to me that my intake is average or low for this type of diet, not speaking of ideals.

 

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