Author Topic: Yuri recovery  (Read 191726 times)

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carnivore

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #325 on: February 17, 2010, 10:23:06 pm »
Before IF, when I had perfect digestion, I ate form half a pound to a pound of marrow at one sitting, topped all that fat with a pound of meat and could play soccer in 30-60 minutes after that meal. Now, when my digestion is severely compromised, I tolerate marrow very poorly. Suet also causes me massive problems. Even cream is too hard. The only fat that I can handle more or less fine is butter. It is truly magical…

Well, if you have abused your body like you did (1 pound of marrow+1pound of meat in one meal and play soccer 1 hour after), I am not surprised your have compromised your digestion!
Not everybody can imitate a carnivore without troubles.
Again, humans are omnivore, we are not adapted to feast and famines like carnivore.

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #326 on: February 17, 2010, 10:40:09 pm »
I could play but it doesn't mean that I did. I used that demonstrative example just to illustrate how easy and effortless was my digestion.
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Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #327 on: February 18, 2010, 09:56:01 am »
Quote
As for the marrow it is known to be the primary place of storage of toxins in the body. The marrow that I was eating could have contained various heavy metals that might have harmed my thyroid and adrenals.

Do you have a source for this? I would guess that the toxins are first stored in body fat first since this fat is essentially useless for the health of the animal. Why would the animal take time to put the toxins in the bone marrow which would be much more essential to health?

Offline KD

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #328 on: February 18, 2010, 10:27:32 am »
Why would the animal take time to put the toxins in the bone marrow which would be much more essential to health?


I'm certainly no expert on RPD, but most of what I've read over the years suggests that marrow will be more contaminated than muscle meats. I don't think its a conscious choice on the part of the animal, nor would it need to be. For example, humans can have all sorts of issues with toxins or heavy metals in various organs and indeed have bone marrow issues. Is their flesh/muscle tissue also toxic? I'd assume to some degree but far less than fatty tissue or organs, some of which of course are designed to try to filter out some of these substances and cannot. Also as an educated guess, I imagine bone marrow to be something that accumulates over a lifetime, the cells in muscle tissue being more in flux/state of detox.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2010, 10:48:12 am by KD »

Offline pc701

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #329 on: February 18, 2010, 01:48:49 pm »
the only other theory i have left why you went down hill is because you were overdosing on protein, you ate mostly carbs as your calories from most of your life and now you all of a sudden jam your system will tons of protein that i guess screwed up your system, I am eating more fruits and vegeatbles and it seems to help me regarding dark under eyes which i think is caused by stress on the kidneys
 

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #330 on: February 18, 2010, 11:44:27 pm »
Here I’d like to share with you some of my latest findings:

The vitamin C puzzle
You may remember that back in September of last year, at the very outset of my ongoing zero journey, I was taking synthetic vitamin C for about 4-6 weeks and had tremendously good results with it. Among other things I experienced rather significant improvement in my digestion. Initially I couldn’t logically explain that bettering and wrote it all off to the possible healing properties of the vitamin C might on the adrenals. As soon as I stopped taking ascorbic acid the amount of meat that I could consume daily slowly decreased fourfold. Later I got the opportunity (courtesy of “ys” who is the member of our forum) to experiment with the natural form of vitamin C derived from plants/fruits. Much to my regret it failed to mitigate the benefits shown by its synthetic analogue. After giving this matter some more careful thought I drew the conclusion that it was not the vitamin C that was aiding my digestion but Ascorbic Acid. Evidently it is a very good idea to take something acidic with the meals for a while to enhance absorption. These can be non-buffered vitamin C (ascorbic acid), citric acid, malic acid, apple cider vinegar or betaine HCl. I will report on this issue once I’ve got the chance to try out some of the abovementioned acids.

Cloudy urine confusion
Once he has amassed a large body of evidence and deduced a number of possible explanations, Holmes proceeds to find the one explanation that fits all the facts of the case to produce a solution. As Holmes explains to Watson, "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
So did I. I couldn’t be sure what was causing my cloudy urine until I excluded all the variables and stayed on nothing but meat and fat for an extended period of time. Now there is not a shade of doubt that ZC is the sole contributor.

Butter magic
These past 5 raw zero months were totally futile. The situation was gradually worsening until the powerful climax came at the end of January. I could not endure any longer the systematic diarrhea which kept me awake for most of the nights, excruciating stomach pains and severe indigestion. I run out of strength, patience and belief. I decided to fast and put an end to my unbearable sorrow. Luckily I met my milkman on the second day of the fast. Since I had nothing to lose I decided to give myself one more chance, this time with a bit of dairy. I made only one change to my all meat and fat diet, namely I replaced suet with butter. The results were not slow to arrive. As early as on the second day I felt warmer. When I was eating suet as my fat source I was extremely cold and had to wear shirt, sweater and jacket in my apartment. As I switched to butter just the shirt was enough to keep me warm. The stomach pains considerably diminished and eventually subsided. The diarrhea stopped. The butter treatment gave me renewed hope…

GOD save the COW!
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Offline pc701

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #331 on: February 19, 2010, 02:26:21 am »
yuri i think it is illogical to think that indigestion or digestive problems being caused by fasting. Maybe you have not tried aajonus's approach to fixing your digestive problems long enough to say that  it works or not, or maybe going on your native diet long enough.

William

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #332 on: February 20, 2010, 07:06:38 pm »
Here I’d like to share with you some of my latest findings:

 Since I had nothing to lose I decided to give myself one more chance, this time with a bit of dairy. I made only one change to my all meat and fat diet, namely I replaced suet with butter. The results were not slow to arrive. As early as on the second day I felt warmer. When I was eating suet as my fat source I was extremely cold and had to wear shirt, sweater and jacket in my apartment. As I switched to butter just the shirt was enough to keep me warm. The stomach pains considerably diminished and eventually subsided. The diarrhea stopped. The butter treatment gave me renewed hope…

GOD save the COW!

Very interesting, and it supports the idea that we don't know enough about fat. Was the butter raw?


The European creation story has the first ancestor of Man being created by a cow named Audhumbla, Who licked a block of ice she found in the ginningugap, thus sort of carving out the shape of a man.
These ancestral stories are IMHO teaching stories, maybe they were trying to tell us to eat butter?

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #333 on: February 20, 2010, 08:00:49 pm »
Very interesting, and it supports the idea that we don't know enough about fat. Was the butter raw?

Raw and grass-fed as far as it is possible to be in winter. In fact as I already mentioned in my Journal I make this butter myself.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #334 on: February 20, 2010, 08:32:54 pm »
For what it's worth, I do not see beef suet as my food, I see it as an industrial material.

I am so happy for you.  You finally found some fat that works for you in raw butter.  :)

Go on, keep experimenting.

Your journal is very much appreciated.
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Offline miles

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #335 on: February 20, 2010, 10:49:13 pm »
Could it be because of the fairly high amount of unsaturated fat in butter?
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Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #336 on: February 21, 2010, 12:05:19 am »
Could it be because of the fairly high amount of unsaturated fat in butter?

Probably not, from usda nutrient database
saturated:mono:poly
suet - 52:31.5:3
butter - 51:21:3

So butter has a higher ratio of saturated to non

carnivore

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #337 on: February 21, 2010, 12:35:30 am »
Suet is the hardest fat to digest, while butter one of the the easiest (already emulsified).
But all dairy has some drawbacks (from the paleodiet update) :

 Hazards of Dairy

I recently spoke at a conference at Harvard organized by Walter Willet, focused on dairy. As the science unfolds, we continue to uncover more information that the National Dairy Council is not going to like. It turns out that there may be much greater concerns than its high insulinemic response, recombinant bovine growth hormone, casein protein, or lactose intolerance. In this issue, I update you on my latest findings regarding how dairy can adversely affect your health.

Another Reason Not To Drink Your Milk: Betacellulin

Although dairy foods comprise nearly 11% of the energy in the typical U.S. diet1, these foods were never consumed by every human on the planet as recently as 500 human generations (10,000 years) ago. Increasingly, data from tissue, human, animal and epidemiological studies demonstrate that this staple food has the potential to adversely influence health as would be predicted by the evolutionary template.

The Epidermal Growth Factor Receptor

Only 12 short years have elapsed since the discovery that humans bear a hormonal receptor in their gastrointestinal tract called the epidermal growth factor receptor. This trans-membrane, hormonal receptor is very unusual in that it is expressed luminally – meaning that it faces the gut contents rather than the bloodstream2, 3. The location of the EGF receptor puzzled scientists for years – why was it expressed luminally and what was its function4? Since, hormones always arrive at tissues from the circulation, why should the EGF receptor face the gut contents, which in effect are outside the body?

Function of the Gut Epidermal Growth Factor Receptor

It turns out that the primary function of the luminally facing EGF receptor is to stimulate healing and maintain the integrity of the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract3, 4. In humans, the primary source of the hormone (EGF) which binds to the EGF receptor in the gut comes from saliva5. So when you swallow your own saliva, it contains a hormone (EGF), which binds to the EGF receptor located in the gut to maintain the integrity and promote healing of the cells (epithelial cells) lining the gut (Figure 1).

Figure 1. Synthesis of EGF from the salivary glands and absorption in the gut via the EGF receptor (EGF-R).

After the salivary EGF binds the EGF receptor, both the receptor and EGF may cross into the interior of gut cells. The EGF receptor is then recycled back into the cell membrane (Figure 1). Most of the EGF is degraded by organelles within the cell called lysosomes. However, some EGF escapes destruction by the lysosomes and then enters circulation. We know that salivary EGF enters circulation, because when the salivary and submandibular glands of laboratory animals are destroyed, blood concentrations of EGF are greatly reduced6.

Besides being expressed luminally in the gut, the EGF receptor is expressed in the usual manner (facing the bloodstream) in all epithelial cells and organs undergoing branching morphogenesis during embryonic development. Consequently salivary EGF that enters the circulation can bind EGF receptors located in the skin, gastrointestinal tract, lung, kidney, mammary gland, pancreas, prostate gland, ovary and other tissues. At this point, it should be noted that there are actually four different forms of the EGF receptor (ErbB-1, ErbB-2, ErbB-3 and ErbB-4) found throughout the body. Each of these four receptors combine with one another to form pairs called homodimers or heterodimers that can bind EGF or EGF like hormones (Figure 2). Keep this information in mind when the discussion moves to cancer.

Figure 2. The four families of the epidermal growth factor receptor (ErbB1, ErbB2, ErbB3 and ErbB4).

Each of the four receptors combines to form a pair with a different receptor (a heterodimer) or itself (a homodimer). The 10 hormones which can bind the various receptors are depicted in boxes above the receptors. Their binding specificities are indicated by the arrows.

Healthy normal adults secrete on average 0.48 ml of saliva per minute7 which translates to 28.8 ml per hour or 691 ml per 24 hours. The average concentration of EGF in whole saliva (not just the protein fraction) is 0.0512 nanograms per ml8; so the total salivary EGF produced in a 24 hour period would equal on average 35.3 nanograms.

Betacellulin: A Hormone that Binds the Epidermal Growth Factor Receptor

The EGF receptor is a promiscuous receptor in that it doesn’t just bind a single hormone (EGF), but rather binds a large family of hormones including transforming growth factor alpha (TGF-?), heparin binding EGF(HB-EGF), epiregulin (EPR), amphiregulin (AR), neuregulins 1, 2, 3 and 4 (NRG1, NRG2, NRG3, NRG4) and betacellulin (BTC)9. The key hormone to remember here is betacellulin because it is found in cow’s milk in high concentrations. Betacellulin is a very stable hormone in that it is not degraded by the heat of pasteurization and is even found in high concentrations in cheese10.

When you drink cow’s milk or eat cheese, you are, in effect, dosing yourself with betacellulin. You might think that protein shearing enzymes in your gut would breakdown betacellulin and other hormones belonging to the EGF hormonal family before they can get to the gut EGF receptor. However, this is not the case, as cow’s milk contains peptidase inhibitors which allow EGF to remain intact even in human digestive juices of the stomach and small intestine11. Remember that betacellulin can bind the luminally expressed EGF receptor in the gut, and can thereby enter circulation via the same mechanism that the salivary hormone, EGF, does.

So what – what if a little betacellulin from cow’s milk gets into your bloodstream – does it matter? You bet it matters. A liter of whole milk (633 kcal) contains 1,930 nano-grams of betacellulin10 whereas the amount of EGF that your salivary glands secrete is only 35.3 ng per day. The binding affinity of betacellulin to the EGF receptor is greater than that for EGF; consequently betacellulin can displace EGF from the EGF receptor9. The amount of betacellulin that you get from drinking even a single cup of milk (457 nanograms) has the capacity to stimulate the EGF receptor 10 times more than what normally would occur during a 24 hour period from EGF in saliva.

The Epidermal Growth Factor Receptor and Cancer

So, what’s wrong with increased stimulation of the EGF receptor? First off, when a member of the EGF hormonal family binds the EGF receptor it sets off a chemical cascade that ultimately causes more EGF receptors to be synthesized. This process is known as up-regulation. Higher concentrations of EGF up-regulate the EGF-R12, 13. So, by ingesting supplemental betacellulin from cow’s milk, the number of EGF receptors may increase in the gut and in peripheral tissues bearing the EGF receptor. A higher betacellulin concentration in the bloodstream along with increased numbers of EGF receptors causes an increase in signaling (flux) through the EGF receptor pathway.

Overexpression of the EGF receptor and hence increased flux through this pathway occurs in a wide variety of cancers including: breast, colon, prostate, ovarian, lung, pancreatic, bladder, stomach, and head and neck cancers13, 14, 15. Higher concentrations of the EGF receptor increases cancer recurrence, reduces survival and increases tumor progression and development 13. Activation of the EGF receptor by the EGF family of hormones, including betacellulin, promotes cancer by 1) increasing cell proliferation, 2) decreasing programmed cell death (apoptosis), 3) increasing tumor formation and progression and, 4) increasing growth of blood vessels (angiogenesis) within tumors14.

The U.S. Food and Drug administration has recently approved experimental trials of pharmaceuticals (gefitinib, erlotinib, cetuximab) which can halt or slow various cancers by blocking the EGF receptor signaling14, 15. Perhaps a better strategy would be to stop drinking betacellulin containing cow’s milk which may over stimulate EGF receptor signaling in the first place. Although observational epidemiological studies cannot show cause and effect between diet and disease, they suggest that milk drinking and dairy consumption is linked to a variety of cancers including: ovarian16-19, breast20-26, colon20, 27-29, lung20, 30-32, stomach20, 33, pancreatic34-36, and prostate37-40.

Milk, indeed, may not be good for everybody, particularly cancer patients or those with a family history of cancer.

Offline majormark

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #338 on: February 21, 2010, 03:01:46 pm »
... I make this butter myself.

How many liters of milk it takes you to get 1 Kg of butter on average?


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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #339 on: February 21, 2010, 04:49:10 pm »
    If a person with advanced cancer wishes to recover, and raw meat is hard for them to swallow, and raw meat smoothies is too shocking an idea for them, would you preclude homemade grass-fed raw kefir shakes?  They certainly shouldn't go to a doctor, as doctors insist upon bottled or canned formula made from milk for the patients every day.  Are your "Hazards of Dairy" a study on A2 or A1 milk?  Is it about raw?

But all dairy has some drawbacks (from the paleodiet update) :

 Hazards of Dairy

I recently spoke at a conference at Harvard organized by Walter Willet, focused on dairy. As the science unfolds, we continue to uncover more information that the National Dairy Council is not going to like. It turns out that there may be much greater concerns than its high insulinemic response, recombinant bovine growth hormone, casein protein, or lactose intolerance. ....

Milk, indeed, may not be good for everybody, particularly cancer patients or those with a family history of cancer.
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #340 on: February 21, 2010, 09:03:09 pm »
All these studies they are undoubtedly of an extreme importance they are. They help us to understand and explain those or that natural events and processes. But all in all they are just the theories. And no matter how accurate and precise such theories may be they will never match or even come near the in vivo experiences. So for me the results demonstrated in practice, under real life circumstances, will always remain by far the most important, reliable and conclusive evidence. And in this case I don’t have to look any further that at the health and vitality of certain African tribes such as Masai, Fellani and Samburu who consume anyway from 60 to 90% of their diet as unpasteurized dairy.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 09:31:55 pm by rawlion »
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #341 on: February 21, 2010, 09:17:38 pm »
How many liters of milk it takes you to get 1 Kg of butter on average?

I do not know exactly. I make the butter from sour cream, not from the fresh milk. In order to make one kg of butter I need around 2.5 litres of sour cream. Depending on the breed of the cow and some other factors that amount of sour cream can be derived from 15 – 20 litres of a good milk I think.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2010, 09:37:40 pm by rawlion »
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Offline pc701

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #342 on: March 11, 2010, 06:06:10 am »
Yuri do you currently have puffy/swollen eyes/eyelids and dark under eyes? The way I got rid of this is by simply drastically limiting animal foods and adding much more plant foods.I am convinced that these symptoms are kidney related problem associated with too much protein in the blood/urine.

Offline miles

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #343 on: March 11, 2010, 08:08:55 am »
pc, maybe you were not having enough fat/water.
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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #344 on: March 11, 2010, 10:00:48 am »
pc, maybe you were not having enough fat/water.

It's in his head. Durianrider's charm and humour or something convinced him.

Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #345 on: March 14, 2010, 11:33:25 pm »
What kind of plant foods and how much?
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Offline pc701

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #346 on: March 15, 2010, 02:50:10 am »
So what are you going to eat now yuri? You must know by now that all this meat and fat hasn't done you any good right? And please tells what you think caused all this so nobody else gets hurt. Just regular fruits and veggie juices, for me specifically beet juice. 

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #347 on: March 15, 2010, 05:01:46 am »
I don't know the source of your dark circles under the eyes, but some common causes cited in links found with a little searching are deficiencies in vitamin K2 or iron. Vitamin A is also sometimes cited. It's strange, though, because if you're eating a raw animal-based diet, you would think you'd be getting these nutrients from pasture-fed organs, red meats and raw dairy.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #348 on: March 15, 2010, 05:26:43 pm »
I don't know the source of your dark circles under the eyes, but some common causes cited in links found with a little searching are deficiencies in vitamin K2 or iron. Vitamin A is also sometimes cited. It's strange, though, because if you're eating a raw animal-based diet, you would think you'd be getting these nutrients from pasture-fed organs, red meats and raw dairy.
  Yuri, last I checked, can't get hold of 100% grassfed meats.
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Offline rawlion

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Re: Yuri recovery
« Reply #349 on: March 15, 2010, 09:43:18 pm »
 Yuri, last I checked, can't get hold of 100% grassfed meats.

Well, of course I should have mentioned this before but I forgot somehow. As I found out back in November the lamb/mutton that I was eating is 100% grass fed organic. I suspected it could be the case but never had the proper opportunity to verify that. Finally I had a lengthy conversation with the farmer. Initially I asked him how much grain and other stuff he feeds to his muttons. After he replied none I tried to explain him that it is simply impossible. I told him that I had read in certain veterinary books that animals require at least some grains ( ;D). But he took a strong stand. Then he showed me the pictures of his beautiful farm and the green pastures. He even invited me to visit these places but I never had the energy to do that. Anyways I was more than totally satisfied with that.

With that said I am totally convinced that during winter months he feeds his animals some small amounts of grains and probably starches.

As for the quality of dairy that I am getting it is truly divine. I am buying it from one milkman in whom I have absolute trust. He owns only one cow and treats her very well. He has lots of land and stores ups huge amounts of hay for the winter.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 09:52:41 pm by rawlion »
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