Poll

How much time do you spend in the sun each day?

< 10 min
10-30 min
30 min - 1 hr
1-2 hrs
2-4 hrs
all day

Author Topic: How much time do you spend in the sun each day? and other associated thoughts  (Read 14875 times)

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Offline Paleo Donk

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There hasn't been too much discussion on sun exposure. It seems sunlight would be an extremely paleo thing to do so since we were spending all day, every day in the sun.

Many modern paleos recommend sunlight obviously but I'm wondering if the small amount that is generally recommended is anywhere near enough. I would assume that a couple hours of full-body sun exposure to be the bare minimum even for those with fairly light skin and that perhaps all day would be optimal for all of us. This would especially be true in summer time like it is for nearly everyone on this site. When I speak of all day full-body exposure, this accounts for appropriate time spent in the shade (whatever this is). Perhaps someone has some knowledge of indigenous cultures around the world and what they do for sun exposure.

I'm thinking sun exposure could be a bigger piece of the puzzle to good health than what might be assumed by reading through the posts here. Maybe not, but I am trying to spend significant time out in the sun and am just about to buy a speedo and bring lots of my work outside so I can stay even more time out in the sun. I very rarely feel "bad" when I'm outside during the day as almost all my sour moments occur indoors. Hopefully I can build up to all day sun exposure. I already have a very good tan (mediteranean blood) and haven't burned yet with no sunscreen of any kind.

Does anyone here have experience with spending lots of time exposed to the sun for months at a time on rpd?

Can anyone confirm whether or not fruitarians recommend insane amounts of sun exposure? Perhaps the sun is a big factor in them remaining functional.

Could sun exposure be significantly different with all the new pollutants in the atmosphere?

There clearly is an adaption period for people with light skin but I'm guessing once this takes place (which could take several months of constantly increasing daily sun) that they too will eventually get to a point where all day full-body sun exposure is health promoting. I'm also guessing that the less sunlight one gets the more meat needs to be a part of the diet.

I find it quite hard to stay outside as it does get boring away from my computer but hopefully I can settle in

Well that was tl;dr...back outside for the last couple hours of daylight.

Offline goodsamaritan

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In my location, 10 to 30 minutes of morning sun is just about right.
I take one of my kids for a stroll around the neighborhood before breakfast.
Mid afternoon sun from 11 to 3 pm should be avoided in the summer time.
Good thing summer just finished.
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Offline djr_81

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I get 20-30 minutes in the morning on my run. I also get at least an hour most nights after work right now as it's light out later but obviously don't get this in the dead of winter.
I find that weekend days, where I'm gettign many hours of sun on average, are much more rejuvenating than weekdays. Part is obviously not being at my job but most is fresh air and sunlight.
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Offline KD

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for fruitarians/hygiene theory, sun is a major component. Often, not getting enough sunshine can make an easy excuse of 'failure', even though 'enough' cannot be possibly defined. When you get into the classical frutarian types - not the current popular raw versions of standard low-fat nutritional gurus - but new-age pioneering kooks like Hotema, Krok etc...it gets a bit more complicated and interesting in ways that I think pertain to what you are saying. For them, the fruit part of the diet is actually seen almost like a solvent for purifying the body, which then becomes a vessel for sun energy. This is looked at as a lifetime process, and both exposure and sun gazing are seen as tools for further purifying the body and as sustainable energy. far out. It is thought in this same vein that various ailments linked to exposure are the body bringing existing toxins to the surface, so the chemical factors are linked internally, not to changes in UV etc...and cases of people close to the equator are cited, which starts yet another diet/genetics debate, although the cases in shifting diet/location of the same people shows that this might have some merit. Other than that, I try not to dwell to much on what makes fruit folks tick. I think just looking at SWD one can see how non-essential true nutrition is to mere existence, but how favorably one can capitalize on true proteins and fats for healing and repair. Writing this I keep thinking about William's "THERE IS NO PROTEIN IN PLANTS" marquee, which ironically speaks more about the value of protein. Even with the ridiculous claims about veg protein 'power', and neglecting the specific value and suitability of animal foods, It just becomes so clear that for tribal folks closer to a vegetarian model, that raw proteins and fats are assets, they don't completely dictate all internal processes. Its therefore very possible, that life force cannot be distilled to molecules.

other things I've picked up, which have yet to be comfirmed, revolve around how the body actually assimilates sun energy, or to put in more practical terms how it intakes vitamin D etc.. I have heard a.) this pretty much only takes place when the sun is high between 10am-2pm, the window becomes even more important in winter months, to the point of some places being impossible b.) certain areas of the body are more of a requirement to be exposed than others, even random things like the back of the knee caps and other areas being essential for proper uptake c.) as mentioned in the sunbed thread recently, that bathing and abrasive materials or soaps might negate/wipe off vitamin D production.

Me personally, I try to get as much time as I can stand between 10-2 in short spurts for probably on average 1-2 hours, and don't bother with other times for intentional exposure purposes anyway. Occasionally and usually limited to spring I get burns in the form of redness, and at the most extreme a sun like sickness/nausea, which usually lasts less than 12 hours, and then becomes tan. So far during frutarian I was at my most darkest (and never could even possibly darken before diet change being sickly pale) but at that point I was also really pushing the sun thing, being outside alot of in summer months, and in the winter lived in SOFL and worked outside all day in basically underwear. The only diffence so far I find is on VLC there is so little that can truly hydrate/balance large amounts of exposure (especially with activity). I get the same boredom, but I guess its working for me in this respect, with a goal of short regular exposure.

Offline RawZi

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In my location,...Good thing summer just finished.

    What season is it now?
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Offline RawZi

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Can anyone confirm whether or not fruitarians recommend insane amounts of sun exposure? Perhaps the sun is a big factor in them remaining functional.

    Yes, sun is part of a fruitarian lifestyle, definitely.  Ive read lots of fruitarian forums.  I've lived on fruit a few months and weeks here and there.  I still couldn't tolerate sun.  What helped me tolerate sun then was lots of high quality fresh living herbs.  I'm not made for fruitarianism.  In order to make vitamin D with sun, you need vitamin C which is from fruit, or that is what I read in medical literature.  I've tested allergic to vitamin C, so, there ya go.  You also need vitamin A along with that according to the same literature.  It seems people who can become fruitarians are people who can convert carotenoids into vitamin A.  That was something medical doctors noticed in me when I was seeing them.  I had some extreme case of my body not being able to deal with carotenoids.  Maybe I could become a pesco-fruitarian.

Could sun exposure be significantly different with all the new pollutants in the atmosphere?

    Maybe I was born toxic.  I could never take the sun.

There clearly is an adaption period for people with ... (... several months of constantly increasing daily sun) that they too will eventually get to a point where all day full-body sun exposure is health promoting. I'm also guessing that the less sunlight one gets the more meat needs to be a part of the diet.

    I've done that.  I need high quality organic lotion applied liberally and frequently.  All my sun needs to be before eight in the morning.  I need to be sunned every day.  Even then, one slip up and my top skin layers ravel off.   

... Part is obviously not being at my job but most is fresh air and sunlight.

    For me, the fresh air is really essential.  I feel horrible without it.  I have a hard time tolerating air conditioning, closed windows, radiators etc.  I think moon light helps me too maybe.  I feel great outdoors at night.
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Offline RawZi

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    Paleo Donk, sorry I've never done RPD for extensive periods in the sun.

a.) this pretty much only takes place when the sun is high between 10am-2pm, the window becomes even more important in winter months, to the point of some places being impossible

    From webmd, not all sunlight is the same.  Some ages.  Some burns.  Neither of the rays seem to do both.

Quote
Ultraviolet radiation includes both UVA, which is thought to cause skin aging, and UVB, which is mostly responsible for sunburn ... sunscreens give protection against UVB rays, it does not always ensure protection against UVA

    From diagnose-me:
Quote
Although window glass blocks UVB light, UVA rays are able to pass through it.

    I've kept reptiles indoors.  They need UVB or their bones fall apart.  As long as I kept a UVB bulb on them, they were fine.

    From hilarion:
Quote
Only recently, with the injection of laser light into animals with Parkinsons', has this come forward. It is often a deficiency of blue light. That is an important aspect of this. Many of the things that can be helpful in this regard, are not fully understood. But exposure to sunlight, and a willingness to allow the sun energy to sit on the skin, and for 48 hours without bathing or showering afterwards, can be very helpful. This does not mean that someone with Parkinsons', should get sunburnt. 45 minutes a day, preferably completely nude, would be very helpful here. 2 hours, no bathing or showering, then exposure to sun, then 48 hours without bathing or showering. Intent to be to allow that vitamin D to be fully absorbed. Also, the effects of the sun. The sun has a significant portion of its spectrum, in the blue area, and some of this is to some extent filtered, so it is best that one does not filter it, by being outside, this would be helpful. If filtration, particularly of certain portions of the violet spectrum and in particular ultraviolet B, are filtered by window glass. The Parkinsons patient, should not be exposed to sunlight filtered through window glass if at all possible. This will create excess UV A, which counteracts the UV B, and will to some extent reduce the benefits of the blue radiation that was received while in the sun.

    I'm not saying I had Parkinsons, but I did have diagnosed parkinson-like symptoms as a teen.  I think I need to avoid UVA more than most.  Being in a room or vehicle where sun comes through glass, I feel very sick, and don't recuperate usually till the next day.  I'm sure I'm somewhat of an exception, so for all you who do well with sunlit windows, do what you need to do to treat your health.
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Offline raw

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before raw paleo, i was so weak to take the sun. after consuming so much raw meats, i feel great in the sun. i put my little one naked under the sun.  8)
i wish i lived in a tropical place where's more sun.
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I spent up to 2 months at a time in the summer holidays in my youth, with most hours spent either sunning, or more commonly swimming. in post-RPD days, I have spent up to a month each year in the sun in the open, either at home or abroad. I have to admit I get a boost every time I do so, and feel less affected by pollution etc. Partly it's to do with the sunlight boosting vitamin D in the body, I'm sure, but I also suspect I benefit by being at the same time in outdoor country-like settings with trees, countryside smells, exposure to greater levels of bacteria etc.
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Offline Hans89

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Would it be a good idea to use an UV-B lamp for the winter months / when staying indoors a lot?

Offline Paleo Donk

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other things I've picked up, which have yet to be comfirmed, revolve around how the body actually assimilates sun energy, or to put in more practical terms how it intakes vitamin D etc.. I have heard a.) this pretty much only takes place when the sun is high between 10am-2pm, the window becomes even more important in winter months, to the point of some places being impossible b.) certain areas of the body are more of a requirement to be exposed than others, even random things like the back of the knee caps and other areas being essential for proper uptake c.) as mentioned in the sunbed thread recently, that bathing and abrasive materials or soaps might negate/wipe off vitamin D production.

Thanks for the info on the fruitarian/sun connection. How strongly do you believe the above? I haven't seen any other paleo blogger speak about there being no benefit to sun exposure outside of the small range from 10-2. Having a set time period like that sounds fairly ridiculous for a number of reasons. I also hadn't heard anything about getting proper exposure on certain parts of the body and that doesn't sit too well with me either. As does the issue with bathing. Dr. Harris from paleonu did write about this directly saying that unless you had a brush that scraped off the very bottom layer of skin (where vit D is made) then you wouldn't have to worry.

Part of the reason I posted was because Eades just blogged about the book, "Vitamin D cure""

http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/supplements/sunshine-superman/#more-4165

Offline goodsamaritan

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   What season is it now?

The start of the rainy season.

---------

What I noticed in my travels to colder climates like Europe or the USA, sunshine is a more welcome experience because the wind is so much colder.  While in the tropics, the sun only feels good in the early morning.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 08:42:17 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline RawZi

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The start of the rainy season.

---------

What I noticed in my travels to colder climates like Europe or the USA, sunshine is a more welcome experience because the wind is so much colder.  While in the tropics, the sun only feels good in the early morning.

    Thanks.

    In the colder part of the states I only like the early morning sun, or it's the only sun that likes me.  In the warmer states here I wish it was cloudy and raining all the time, please.  If I ever visited your country I'd want lots of trees around for shade.
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Offline KD

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Thanks for the info on the fruitarian/sun connection. How strongly do you believe the above?

Some makes sense to me but I wouldn't say strongly. I was mostly just listing things. Closer to hearsay backed up by some scientific or empirical ideas I guess.  Basically the whole reason people in the north cannot absorb D in the wintertime, is the sun never gets high enough to penetrate the atmosphere, therefore at some point of the spectrum even in the summer months, the sun is at insufficient height to penetrate it. In fact, even the rare medical types who are not 100% sold on sunscreens, will suggest them and other protection when the sun is high and UVB goes above 3 on a scale of 11, but when the sun is not high they say it requires no such protection because UVB cannot be absorbed. At the same time, even in the winter I think its good to get out and get sun at least on the neck and face.

I don't know about the knee thing or other areas being more sensitive or necessary for absorption of sun rays or energy, but I think exposing as much skin equally probably is a safe bet. I can't seem to find any reference now. It could just have to do with areas never exposed being greater absorption points, like with darker skin peoplse being less able to produce per exposure. that sounds like a stretch though.

As for bathing, I think? I disagree with that myself, but more because most of these types are so incorrectly anti-bathing that they have to come up with such things. I think for most people living in an urban area, they are doing themselves an incredible disservice from not bathing with at least a wash cloth if not soap, and most unfiltered shower water is supposedly as bad as drinking tons of tap water, so it doesn't really make sense anyway to abstain from soaps without a filter. That said, maybe their is some benefit in increasing lag time between exposure and bathing, even though the time they say it takes to fully go into the bloodstream is 48 hours. I've tried just in the last couple of months and there are way too many variables to determine benefit, but I never had problems before getting darker. If anything, cold showers, which don't open the pours seems to have the best benefit. I also think some kind of skin brushing or just plain scratching/rubbing with fingertips is great for removing dirt and grime among other benefits, and is usually my main activity during sunbathing.

Offline wodgina

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That's interesting about the knee's. That's where a lot of people get eczema, mine would heal as soon as summer came and started wearing shorts.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Here's a bit about ethnic differences and exposure to sunlight.
The difference in ethnicity between me and my own children.

Quote
Virgin Coconut Oil as Sunblock or as Treatment for Sunburns

Yesterday my 2 boys and I frolicked in the beaches of Laiya, Batangas in the small fishing village. We arrived around 7am and bought some freshly caught fish and squid by the fishermen. I had 2 raw fish and 1 raw squid for breakfast while my kids and the nannie had a cooked meat and rice breakfast probably with MSG… sigh. By 8am we hit the ocean water and bathed, frolicked and walked around fishing boats and swam with the fishermen’s children until 10am. Originally I wanted just 1 hour, but the boys wanted more time.

I forgot to bring any virgin coconut oil as our sunblock. I initially thought 1 hour of sun at 8-9am would be a good limit for myself. But we extended by another 1 hour. By evening at home I had realized this minor folly. I had sun burnt shoulders… painful, red all over. Good thing we had virgin coconut oil at home. I applied virgin coconut oil on my sun burnt skin. And I slept without a shirt on this evening which was more comfortable with this sun burn to let the virgin coconut oil do its job.

I woke up this morning with significantly less sun burn pain. Will probably put more virgin coconut oil later. My first impulse was to check on my 2 boys. They just woke up and I asked if they had any sunburn pain. They both said none. I checked their skin and no sun burn. Maybe they darkened a bit, but they were not redenned by 2 hours of sun exposure on the beach.

Why did I get sun burned but not my 2 boys?

Ethnic differences. I analyze my skin composition looks more light skinned Chinese on my mother’s side. I don’t get dark, I just redden and get sun burned. My children may have gotten Ilocano blood from their mother (my wife) which significantly protects them fron sun exposure, they are a little darker than me and their skin gets darker, like automatic sunglasses on sun exposure and get no sunburn. Come to think of it, I have never seen them get any sun burn.

We have stopped going to swimming pools when we found out that our children are allergic to swimming pool chlorine. They immediately come down with terrible colds and coughs after swimming in the pool.

Next time, I need to remember to bring some virgin coconut oil upon going to the beach. Never use commercial sun-block… they are poisonous… not edible… if it is not edible, don’t put it on your skin. Virgin coconut is very edible… it is not poisonous… and is effective on skin.

from http://www.curemanual.com/2010/06/virgin-coconut-oil-as-sunblock-or-as-treatment-for-sunburns/
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Offline wodgina

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I've used bone marrow and suet. They seem to of worked quite well, marrow is best but suet is thicker. I've used coconut but the smell gets to me.

I have an irish mum and a mediteranean skinned english dad so luckily for Dad I tan ok.
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Offline Destor

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I said 2-4 hours as an average.  I make a point of spending as much time in the sun as possible without burning, and with as little clothes as possible, I usually lay in the back yard in my speedo lol

Summer has barely even begun here (in Canada) and I'm already noticeably dark.

Offline Hannibal

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I also spend as much time in the sun as possible, usually between 10 am and 2 pm.
I devour sun ;)
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I just found this very interesting article on skin cancer, sunlight and sunscreen.
http://www.pioneerthinking.com/rj_sunscreens.html
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Offline Paleo Donk

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I have used coconut oil in the past but its not natural and I don't use anything now. Still no burning and I've been outside a ton the last month.

Also, I wonder if breast cancer in females could be linked to having that specific area of the body completely devoid of sunlight for the entire life. Perhaps areas like the genitals and bottom of the feet evolved to not need sunlight. My jimmy is brown and dark as I am and I don't think its seen sunlight since I was 5. My upper thighs are quite white though. I look a bit like an ice cream sandwich naked.

Offline Inger

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I love love love the sun.  :-*

Always if it is sunny and I have no work, I go outside by the river nearby our hime, and lay down nekkid in the sun.
I have a secret place no one can see.. ;)
Then when it feels hot I just take a bath in the river and drink some river-water (tasty) and continue sun-bathing.
After some hours I feel like new! It feel so healing.
I believe it is so, so healthy to get sun overall (also your genitals!).

My dad is a Irish with white skin, red hair and freckels, and my mom a dark Norwegian, I am in between.  ;)
After eating only meat (no fruits) I tolerate the sun unbelievable well. I just do not burn anymore! I don't use any suncreen, not even coconutoil.

Looks to me like sugar (fruits) and unsaturated fats (veg.oil) might increase sunburn risk!

In wintertime 2-3 months at the darkest I use UVB solarium 10 min. / week. It feels great.
Not sure if it is more healthy than not, though.. -X

Inger

Offline RawZi

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I wonder if breast cancer in females could be linked to having that specific area of the body completely devoid of sunlight for the entire life. Perhaps areas like the genitals and bottom of the feet evolved to not need sunlight.

    In countries where women go topless on beaches, and in tribes where women always go topless, and in countries where women always cover up everywhere, what are the differences in breast cancer rates?

    I was raised in the US, and I guess my family was pretty conservative.  I remember visiting a friend as a little girl.  They had a plastic kiddie pool in the front yard, no fence nor hedges.  The little (female) friend had no problem playing out there topless.  I refused and kept my top on; because I didn't think it was normal for girls to do that.  I didn't think there was anything wrong with my friend, but that wasn't normal in my family. 

    I think most little US girls over the age of four keep our tops on always, unless we're exotic dancers.  It's a problem.  Then breast-feeding moms are told by the medical doctors to wear nursing bras literally 24/7, no break.  There should be a study.

    Thanks for bring up where some parts are always covered, Paleo Donk.
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I have used coconut oil in the past but its not natural and I don't use anything now. Still no burning and I've been outside a ton the last month.

Also, I wonder if breast cancer in females could be linked to having that specific area of the body completely devoid of sunlight for the entire life. Perhaps areas like the genitals and bottom of the feet evolved to not need sunlight. My jimmy is brown and dark as I am and I don't think its seen sunlight since I was 5. My upper thighs are quite white though. I look a bit like an ice cream sandwich naked.

It seems to me that outer parts of genitals as well as other parts of our body have evolved under normal exposure to sun and thus are normally more or less (depending on ethnic origin) protected by natural tan.
The bottom of our feet however must have been very rarely exposed to sun and so barely needs any protection.
My present girlfriend is black. She's got nice black skin everywhere except... the bottom of her feet. They are as white as I am.


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I presume Americans are far more conservative. I always remember my female british  cousins walking around completely naked on the beach for the first 2-3 years of their lives, with them wearing only a top half(against the sun) in their fourth and fifth years, until, c. age 6 they went with bikinis but topless until they, of course, formed breasts at puberty.
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