Author Topic: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??  (Read 92763 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #175 on: July 27, 2010, 04:36:39 am »

Starch is sugar?  It doesn't matter if you eat buckwheat, potatoes, candy bars or fruit its all gonna be turned into the same thing in your body for the most part.

Absolutely, most people dont know this simple concept, sugar, carbs, starch are all COH, it just depends on the molecule configuration.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #176 on: July 27, 2010, 04:42:59 am »
Another tip that can help if your intolerant to carbs, only eat them after a workout or physical exercise.  This should help

Nice, someone who knows about training nutrition eh? I have been using that concept for a while eating 1 piece of fruit a day only after a workout and it works great for me. Also, the common misconception that carbs are good for energy is false, therefore all those breakfast cereal commercials stating that their cereals will give you energy for work is bullshit. Many who know even a little about insulin and blood sugar will agree that carbohydrates are good for making you tired. Therefore, sometimes I like to eat my carbs before bed time. The best breakfast nutrients are protein and fat. You need the protein because when you wake up you are anemic because the fast at night caused red blood cell cannibalism. You need the fat for sustained energy.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline klowcarb

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 581
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #177 on: July 27, 2010, 05:17:28 am »
I've gained  the leanest, real muscle on ZC. If I were trying to put on more muscle and wanted to stay ZC/VLC, I would drink raw milk mixed with organic, low carb whey or casein. I don't care if it isn't Paleo, at least it is not grains, starches, fruit or vegetables. And just to up calories for a bit.

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #178 on: July 27, 2010, 06:40:25 am »
I've gained  the leanest, real muscle on ZC. If I were trying to put on more muscle and wanted to stay ZC/VLC, I would drink raw milk mixed with organic, low carb whey or casein. I don't care if it isn't Paleo, at least it is not grains, starches, fruit or vegetables. And just to up calories for a bit.

but why do that when you could up the calories by just eating meat fat or bone marrow. Raw coconut cream is cool too.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline klowcarb

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 581
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #179 on: July 27, 2010, 09:01:45 am »
You are right, Pioneer, I would choose coconut over regular milk. I was thinking of Phil. I already eat bone marrow, but was thinking of ways to get more protein in.

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #180 on: July 27, 2010, 09:17:23 am »
why not more meat for protein? Eggs?
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #181 on: July 27, 2010, 12:09:01 pm »
Thanks for the link PP.  That's a useful blog that I wasn't aware of.  I need to go back and read it again as I've so far only skimmed it at 2am this morning. ... Whilst I do appreciate his honesty, I must say, I'm rather disappointed in KGH.  What on earth possesses such an intelligent man with a wealth of knowledge on the subject of human health & diet to start eating such obvious junk food?!
You're welcome.

Yes, it is excellent.

In the past I even included unsweetened rice cakes with almond butter in my diet as a treat (which was a mistake), so I'm not one to be casting stones on this. If you're interested, you could ask him.

Quote
I've been out of the forum/blog loop for 6 months or so and upon my return am most surprised to learn that carbs, cooked carbs and carb loading seem to be the hot topic of the day!  What on earth happened?  What groundbreaking new revelations did I miss?
The latest guru fad--Matt Stone is the hot guru right now, apparently (even Danny Roddy is taking some, though not all, of his advice now)--and Tyler and Lex are away, so they aren't here to bring us back to our senses. ;)

Quote
Ginger, garlic, greens etc are probably fine to add if you have no issues with these foods but, of course, aren't going to help with bulking up.  I consume these myself in small quantities and am contemplating re-introducing homemade sauerkraut again for it's celebrated digestive benefits.  I'm not sure introducing cabbage to one's diet in other forms is a good idea, however.
I agree that these foods don't seem to make any major noticeable difference, at least so far. After I ran the numbers on them I can see why they don't give me as much problems as fruits, squash or tubers. The carb levels of these veggies is surprisingly low.

I think ginger will be a keeper, but it looks like just a smidgeon of raw shallot was not a good move. I'd forgotten how strong and acidic they are. I had it in my head that they were substantially mellower than onions, but I think that's because they're generally reserved for stews and such. My ears and head are still burning hours after eating some bits of shallot as a condiment.

Quote
I'm staggered by your weight gain difficulties PP and had no idea this was such an issue for you.
Heh, heh, not so much for me as for other folks like my lady friend and mother who never seem to tire of telling me to put on more weight--as much as another 50-60 lbs! Admittedly, I'm hovering around where my weight was for most of my adult life before I started really falling apart. I'll be disappointed if I can't bulk up somewhat more, though. I wouldn't be surprised if Matt Stone and Mark Sisson would say it's a sign I'm still doing something wrong, and I wouldn't be surprised. On the other hand, my grandfather was as strong as iron and nearly as thin as me. Then again, I'm not nearly as strong as he was, but I'm hoping some tweaking and more time will help.

I can certainly outwalk most folks at this point, though I was always a pretty good walker (aside from when I was really feeling lousy). In my Vivo Barefoot shoes I'm very quiet, and my alertness has improved, and I tend to walk faster and with longer strides (long legs) than others, which has resulted in my unintentionally catching up quickly and silently on folks in the woods or hallways without being noticed and startling them. It used to be that brain fog, uncontrollabe daydreams (which I detested--not like in the books where daydreaming is supposed to be some kind of great thing--I'm glad to be rid of them), fatigue and bent spine resulted in other people sneaking up on me, catching me unawares and even startling me. I'm much less easily startled now. I feel more like the predator and less like the prey. My balance is also better than it has ever been and I can balance on logs in the woods better than I could in my youth.

Quote
I think your own health & dietary history along with a pre-disposed genetic inheritance are probably at the root of it along with some ongoing digestive/assimilative issues (stomach acid, liver/biliary blockages, parasites/flukes, candida, physical issues eg hernia, damaged villi etc).
You may be right, but I don't think I have quite enough interest to thoroughly test all those hypotheses. Speaking of the hernia, that has been doing amazingly well. It's to the point where a new physician might be hard to convince that I ever had anything beyond a very mild laxity in the tissues. I never imagined it could heal so much.

Quote
Please excuse my lack of current awareness but, besides the weight issue, did you run into other problems on ZC/VLC?  What was the motivation behind a move towards cooked carbs?
My constipation improved at first on ZC, but then returned to as it was and is still with me. Luckily, my IBS has not returned. I tried adding back in cooked carbs like squashes and tubers back when I was eating cooked Paleo omnivore, in part to try to bulk up, a la Matt Stone, but before I encountered his blog. It didn't work. Instead, my semi-Paleo version of the HED damaged my digestion and worsened my IBS and I ended up falling to my lowest weight ever. This is the sort of potential danger from an inflammatory diet like HED that I think KGH is warning against.

Quote
Where does all of the research and knowledge on cooked foods, as often quoted by Tyler, fit into your thoughts on this?
Good question and I asked something similar of the HED proponents without getting an answer, AFAIR. Why would humans need cooked tubers, oats and rice when they managed to survive for millions of years without them? It seems to be an unnecessary level of complexity that perhaps should be relegated to a last resort.

Quote
Again, I've obviously missed some important information in my absence but why do you think even raw paleo carbs (eggs, liver etc) are what's required?
The main point in their favor is that I get nearly as good a feeling of euphoric well being from eating raw liver as I do from raw grassfed beef and suet, I'm gradually learning to like the taste of liver, most HG groups highly value liver and other organs, Stone Agers appear to have preferentially eaten organs and fats, and carnivores like big cats and canids preferentially eat organs (and probably fats, though I haven't seen much on the latter yet, because the nature experts still think that protein is the key macronutrient instead of fat, so they tend to ignore fat).

Quote
You sound as though you're on the right lines now looking at ways to improve your GI capabilities.  It may just require great patience on a RPD if there's extensive damage requiring healing.

Good luck!
You may well be right. It can be trying at times when I see other folks like Martin Bearslayer rapidly develop muscles after adopting a carnivorous diet and evolutionary fitness regime, but I can see from his early overweight photos that he was starting with more muscle mass. Once the weight melted off him, it revealed the muscle that was already there, plus what he added. So I try not to set my expectations too high. Besides Ben Fury thinks I should be focusing on further straightening my spine before upping the weights, so I don't compress the already bent spine. It makes sense to me. My spine does seem to be straightening further, based on my stretches and yoga poses, but at a slow rate.

I'd like to be doing my chin-ups too, which might help the spine, but my bar didn't fit in the doors of my new condo. I need to keep my eyes open for a good chin-up branch in the woods, I think, and remember to use it. The woods are one of my favorite environs anyway, along with streams, lakes, rivers and meadows at the edge of woods. Do you ever get a tingling sense (particularly in the mornings) near a natural body of water or in the woods? It's not scientific, but I get the feeling that my body is instinctively reacting to an environment that is more like the original natural environment humans adapted to.

Thanks!
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline miles

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,904
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #182 on: July 27, 2010, 05:46:01 pm »
I have been wondering lately if I am parasite-infested from when I ate 'SWD'.. Particularly my liver. Is there any way that parasites die or leave by themselves..?

(separate)Hey by the way, when you kill an animal, first thing you check is the liver right, and then you eat it first if it's healthy, and then eat the rest. But what do you do if the liver is unhealthy looking? Do you just gut the animal and eat the rest, do you leave the whole thing, or do you cook it?

5-10% off your first purchase at http://www.iherb.com/ with dicount code: KIS978

Offline cliff

  • Bear Hunter
  • ****
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #183 on: July 27, 2010, 09:50:01 pm »
I've gained  the leanest, real muscle on ZC. If I were trying to put on more muscle and wanted to stay ZC/VLC, I would drink raw milk mixed with organic, low carb whey or casein. I don't care if it isn't Paleo, at least it is not grains, starches, fruit or vegetables. And just to up calories for a bit.

Sounds like a eating disorder to me

Offline pioneer

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 612
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #184 on: July 27, 2010, 11:27:00 pm »
I have been wondering lately if I am parasite-infested from when I ate 'SWD'.. Particularly my liver. Is there any way that parasites die or leave by themselves..?

(separate)Hey by the way, when you kill an animal, first thing you check is the liver right, and then you eat it first if it's healthy, and then eat the rest. But what do you do if the liver is unhealthy looking? Do you just gut the animal and eat the rest, do you leave the whole thing, or do you cook it?



Absolutely, from what I've been told and what I've read, parasites leave the body if there is no degenerative, or toxic tissue to feed off of, but I may be wrong. It is true though that parasites are the janitors of the earth so their job is to get rid of sick animals not healthy ones. If you get yourself healthy, you shouldnt worry. The way I see it is, I dont care if something is inside of me as long as everything is functioning right. You would know if you had an uncontrollable parasite. Most of us already have parasites anyway in small numbers, its when they get large & reproduce when you have a problem.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" - Edmund Burke

"There is a lot of pressure to be sexualized but not to actually be sexual."
- women's health member

Offline Michael

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #185 on: July 28, 2010, 04:03:31 am »
Hi Phil,

Good to hear from you!  Glad to hear you're making gains in some areas and are gradually getting there with fine tuning the diet.  I can certainly relate to the issues you have with carbs as I have similar problems myself.  On the occasions that I throw caution to the wind and indulge in a little fruit, honey or other carbs I end up regretting it!  I think you sound even more sensitive to it than I though!  Up until now I've been quite happy ticking along on VLC/ZC with a few herbs, onions, ginger, garlic thrown in.  But this sudden hysteria about carbs has got me thinking that, perhaps, I should attempt to include a little more.

Like you, I've been checking the numbers and the grams of carbohydrate per 100 grams of various contenders is certainly extremely low.  I read on another thread Alphagruis (who's opinion I greatly respect) mentioning 50-100g as a minimum level of carbohydrate to aim for.  I'm going to start experimenting with various recipes of raw veg and, possibly, low sugar fruits and see how I get on.  I used to make a dish in my raw vegan days of courgette 'pasta' in a tomato sauce.  The ingredients would include: 2-3 courgettes (2g carb per 100g), 3-4 large tomatoes (4g per 100g), a handful of sun-dried tomatoes (56g per 100g!) along with some salad leaves, garlic etc.  I think one meal like this per day (if tolerated) would be sufficient to achieve the minimum carb level suggested along with a selection of flavourings with the main meat meal.

Have you tried sun-dried tomatoes?  If tolerated, it appears that they'd be a great carb source for you and may be worth a try.  Raspberries seem low with just 4g sugars (12g carbs) per 100g so could maybe be tolerated as, perhaps, could red pepper (6g carb/100g), fermented red cabbage sauerkraut (7g carb/100g), scallions (7g carb/100g). 

I was also thinking about blood?!  A quick Google search found some bovine blood composition analysis results from the 1930s indicating seemingly substantial quantities of sugars along with a host of minerals.  Perhaps this would be worth investigating further?  Not quite as tempting as fruit and honey, granted, but it may help achieve those 50g levels!   :)


In the past I even included unsweetened rice cakes with almond butter in my diet as a treat (which was a mistake), so I'm not one to be casting stones on this. If you're interested, you could ask him.

I think KGH is a little too busy to bother with my questioning on this.  The odd treat is acceptable and I'm sure we all do it occasionally (and regret it afterwards!) but it sounded like the rice krispies and half/half was a regular part of his regime?!  Each to his own but I just find it odd.

Quote
The latest guru fad--Matt Stone is the hot guru right now, apparently (even Danny Roddy is taking some, though not all, of his advice now)--and Tyler and Lex are away, so they aren't here to bring us back to our senses. ;)

Thanks for the update.  I saw the guy's site and I can appreciate the appeal in some respects I suppose.  Let's hope Lex & Tyler return soon so we can get some normality back around here!! :)

Quote
I'll be disappointed if I can't bulk up somewhat more, though. I wouldn't be surprised if Matt Stone and Mark Sisson would say it's a sign I'm still doing something wrong, and I wouldn't be surprised. On the other hand, my grandfather was as strong as iron and nearly as thin as me. Then again, I'm not nearly as strong as he was, but I'm hoping some tweaking and more time will help.

I get the impression that your body has a great deal of healing to do so expect patience to be required as your greatest virtue.  A little tweaking to get the program right for your own body, continued dedication and great amounts of time and I'm sure you'll slowly notice improvements.  As you mentioned, it's probably also important that you don't set your expectations to high.  You may always remain relatively thin determined by your genetic inheritance and level of pre-RPD damage but as long as you're fit, strong and healthy this shouldn't be a problem to you or loved ones.

Quote
I can certainly outwalk most folks at this point,... I feel more like the predator and less like the prey. My balance is also better than it has ever been and I can balance on logs in the woods better than I could in my youth.

Glad to hear it!  There's progress for you!  I think walking is the best form of exercise available.  My father and uncle (aged 75 and 82 respectively) both think nothing of walking 10-15 miles on a stroll.  They consider a serious walk to be 20-25 miles in a day!  They've always eaten 'sensibly' and haven't engaged in other exercise at all besides cycling long distances in their youth.  But, walking has been a fundamental part of their lives.  They both look 20 years younger than they are and are mentally & physically sharper and stronger than many in their 30s with no known health problems.  My father still travels and works in London as director of a large insurance company.  So, keep up the walking!  :)

Quote
Speaking of the hernia, that has been doing amazingly well. It's to the point where a new physician might be hard to convince that I ever had anything beyond a very mild laxity in the tissues. I never imagined it could heal so much.

That's fantastic news!  Is that purely from diet or have you utilised other therapies?  I have a suspected hiatus hernia which is exasperating my digestive capacities and have an appointment booked next week to see a chiropractor having read that many have had the condition 'cured' with a particular manipulation.

Quote
Why would humans need cooked tubers, oats and rice when they managed to survive for millions of years without them? It seems to be an unnecessary level of complexity that perhaps should be relegated to a last resort.

My sentiments precisely.

Quote
My spine does seem to be straightening further, based on my stretches and yoga poses, but at a slow rate.

Have you tried Egoscue Method?  You've probably read me mention it previously but this may help with straightening the spine.  I have before/after photos of my 3 months of daily Egoscue exercise and the difference in my posture is staggering!

Quote
I'd like to be doing my chin-ups too, which might help the spine, but my bar didn't fit in the doors of my new condo.

I bought one recently made by a guy local to me here in Norfolk, England.  It's a brilliant device and fits onto most doorways without requiring any fixings.  I don't know if he ships Internationally but you can check it out here: http://www.powertrainer.co.uk/

Quote
The woods are one of my favorite environs anyway, along with streams, lakes, rivers and meadows at the edge of woods. Do you ever get a tingling sense (particularly in the mornings) near a natural body of water or in the woods? It's not scientific, but I get the feeling that my body is instinctively reacting to an environment that is more like the original natural environment humans adapted to.

Here, here!  Along with mountains, these are my favourite places.  I dream of just taking off and living a natural life in the forest.  Perhaps one day...
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline miles

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,904
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #186 on: July 28, 2010, 05:07:43 am »
How old are you Michael? Also.. I think when hungry is the best time to shop at the supermarket, as you can tell what you really want...

Does anyone know how much difference there is, between the amount of blood left in joints of meat, compared to to what would be available from a fresh kill..? Also I remember something about the sugars degrading fast..?
5-10% off your first purchase at http://www.iherb.com/ with dicount code: KIS978

Offline Michael

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #187 on: July 28, 2010, 06:08:03 am »
How old are you Michael?
Well, that's a rather personal question miles!  ;)  I'm 39 in a couple of months (that's me about 30 years ago in my pic!) :)  I've been eating this way since Dec 2000 and have been a member of this wonderful forum since Sept 2008, I believe.

Quote
Also.. I think when hungry is the best time to shop at the supermarket, as you can tell what you really want...
ha ha :)  I suppose that depends on one's metabolic health and whether one has issues with sugar.  Certainly, it was never a good idea for me years ago and, I believe, the statement remains valid for many people still eating a SAD diet.

Quote
Does anyone know how much difference there is, between the amount of blood left in joints of meat, compared to to what would be available from a fresh kill..? Also I remember something about the sugars degrading fast..?
I certainly don't know, miles, but I would assume that there's a huge difference.  I only ever manage to salvage a few mouthfuls of blood from my joints of meat whilst I would expect the blood volume of large animals to far exceed that of humans - much of which, I expect, would be available from a fresh kill.

BTW, I do enjoy the sharpness, profoundness and often concise wit of your posts!   :)
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #188 on: July 28, 2010, 07:39:34 am »
....But this sudden hysteria about carbs has got me thinking that, perhaps, I should attempt to include a little more.
It does provide an opportunity to experiment and compare your results to others that are doing it. One possible benefit that does make some sense is keeping carb-eating bacteria alive so one doesn't become even more intolerant of carbs, but there are potential side effects as well. These fads come and go on diet forums. My guess is that after some people see that HED isn't a cure-all for everyone the fad will die down somewhat.

Quote
Like you, I've been checking the numbers and the grams of carbohydrate per 100 grams of various contenders is certainly extremely low.  I read on another thread Alphagruis (who's opinion I greatly respect) mentioning 50-100g as a minimum level of carbohydrate to aim for.  I'm going to start experimenting with various recipes of raw veg and, possibly, low sugar fruits and see how I get on.
Yes, it seems to be impossible to eat that much carbs without eating fruits or cooked/dried tubers or more modern carbs. Since my fruit experiments haven't gone well, I've been considering trying dried African yams at some point, but first I would need to find some and I would also like to know more about how to process them in traditional fashion, in case there are any other steps. I've seen mention of soaking or fermenting.

Quote
 I used to make a dish in my raw vegan days of courgette 'pasta' in a tomato sauce.  The ingredients would include: 2-3 courgettes (2g carb per 100g), 3-4 large tomatoes (4g per 100g), a handful of sun-dried tomatoes (56g per 100g!) along with some salad leaves, garlic etc.  I think one meal like this per day (if tolerated) would be sufficient to achieve the minimum carb level suggested along with a selection of flavourings with the main meat meal. Have you tried sun-dried tomatoes?
Thanks for asking first instead of just telling me to eat tomatoes, like some folks seem to do. :D Unfortunately I don't handle tomatoes well, which is another reason it's so hard to include carbs in my diet. Some carb fans don't seem to take individual problems like this into account (plus tomatoes are a nightshade and linked by Dr. Cordain to leaky gut syndrome, so not generally recommended in my book, except as an occasional treat).

Quote
Raspberries seem low with just 4g sugars (12g carbs) per 100g so could maybe be tolerated
Ah, my beloved raspberries. Sadly, not well tolerated. Doesn't stop me from cheating with berries or grapes once a week or two. My current compromise is to allow myself to grab a serving-spoon full of berries or grapes with olive oil once a week at work, but not buy them for home.

Quote
as, perhaps, could red pepper (6g carb/100g)
Another nightshade and another food I don't do well on (though not as badly as green pepper, which is a digestion nightmare for me :D ).

Quote
fermented red cabbage sauerkraut (7g carb/100g)
Yeah, I gave that a go while you were away. It didn't cause any problems, but it didn't help any and I don't care for the taste. Surprisingly, raw cabbage hasn't given me any problems, my grandmother used to love it and I find that now I like it quite a bit too (didn't used to as a kid).

Quote
scallions (7g carb/100g).
Yeah, that's one of my current veggies. Surprisingly low in total carbs per serving, like the other roots that are edible raw.

Quote
I was also thinking about blood?!  A quick Google search found some bovine blood composition analysis results from the 1930s indicating seemingly substantial quantities of sugars along with a host of minerals.
I knew about the minerals and salts, but not the sugars. That's interesting. Do you have the link?

Quote
Perhaps this would be worth investigating further?  Not quite as tempting as fruit and honey, granted, but it may help achieve those 50g levels!   :)
Let me know if you find a source. I've been interested in blood for a while now. I might make my own gluten-free air-dried raw fermented blood sausages, if I can get a grassfed source.

Quote
I think KGH is a little too busy to bother with my questioning on this.
I'll bet someone will harass him over it and he'll eventually explain it further anyway.

Quote
 The odd treat is acceptable and I'm sure we all do it occasionally (and regret it afterwards!) but it sounded like the rice krispies and half/half was a regular part of his regime?!
Yes, it sounds like a new regular part of his diet. Doesn't work for me either, but to each his own, yes. I'm trying to resist the temptations to criticize people who provide overall very good free information and who's overall views are similar to mine--not always succeeding, but trying. The Internet has a tendency to encourage overly critical and argumentative talk and it's a trap I've fallen into from time to time. There's a fine line between constructive debate and destructive arguments.

Quote
Thanks for the update.  I saw the guy's site and I can appreciate the appeal in some respects I suppose.  Let's hope Lex & Tyler return soon so we can get some normality back around here!! :)
Heh, heh. Yeah, never thought I'd look forward to the return of Tyler. ;)

Quote
I get the impression that your body has a great deal of healing to do so expect patience to be required as your greatest virtue.
Luckily it is one, to the point of being a weakness. There are times I need to speak up and complain or question a little more at times so as to not be ignored or remain in ignorance. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. For example, I went too long on 30-35% carbs before trying VLC, and thus suffered needlessly. I was too heavily influenced by the pro-fruit/veg talk of people like Dr. Cordain, Dr. Lindeberg, PaleoFood forum members, family and friends. It has taught me to be even more skeptical than I already was and focus more on personal experimentation and listening to my own body.  

Quote
You may always remain relatively thin determined by your genetic inheritance and level of pre-RPD damage but as long as you're fit, strong and healthy this shouldn't be a problem to you or loved ones.
That's what I tell them, with no luck in influencing them yet. I suspect they see calming words like those as excuses. Many people see things through a negative lense when they're worried about something.

Quote
"Quote
Speaking of the hernia, that has been doing amazingly well. It's to the point where a new physician might be hard to convince that I ever had anything beyond a very mild laxity in the tissues. I never imagined it could heal so much."
That's fantastic news!  Is that purely from diet or have you utilised other therapies?  I have a suspected hiatus hernia which is exasperating my digestive capacities and have an appointment booked next week to see a chiropractor having read that many have had the condition 'cured' with a particular manipulation.
My hernia improvement hasn't varied with amount of exercise and I've been emphasizing walking, sprinting, yoga, Theraband, squats and deadlifts more lately and less of abdominal exercise, yet the improvement has continued. The most amazing thing is that it has happened in spite of a return of the usual level of chronic constipation. In my case it seems that the inguinal hernia and constipation are both mainly results of my diet rather than the constipation being the cause of the hernia. It doesn't surprise me, as scientists and physicians often mistake a symptom for a cause.

Quote
Have you tried Egoscue Method?  You've probably read me mention it previously but this may help with straightening the spine.  I have before/after photos of my 3 months of daily Egoscue exercise and the difference in my posture is staggering!
Yes, I did try that and liked the static back pose and do it when I'm doing yoga, Pilates and Esther Gokhale poses at home. Thanks for the reminder. I just did it again, along with pelvic tilt and shoulder stand, as my back and legs were a little tired and slightly tense from chair-sitting today. If only I could squat at work. :P

I bought one recently made by a guy local to me here in Norfolk, England.  It's a brilliant device and fits onto most doorways without requiring any fixings.  I don't know if he ships Internationally but you can check it out here: http://www.powertrainer.co.uk/[/quote]Yes, brilliant design. Do you think it would fit over a door with a top-frame-piece 5" tall and 7" thick?

Quote
Here, here!  Along with mountains, these are my favourite places.  I dream of just taking off and living a natural life in the forest.  Perhaps one day...
Aye, mountains too--and even plains if I can hunt, live in a tepee, and there's a body of water. I'd like to retire to a place with wilderness, hunting and fishing.

[/quote]
....I suppose that depends on one's metabolic health and whether one has issues with sugar.  Certainly, it was never a good idea for me years ago and, I believe, the statement remains valid for many people still eating a SAD diet.
And even on RPD. My body tells me to buy and eat lots of sugary honey and fruit, if I see it, just like it does all male hunter gatherers that live in areas with honey and fruit, and get dental plaque and acne outbreaks every time as a result. Luckily, I have the discipline to usually ignore my body while shopping. :)

Quote
I certainly don't know, miles, but I would assume that there's a huge difference.  ....
Yes, the amount of blood from a small seal in the Anthony Bourdain / Inuit video was extensive.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 08:00:25 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Nation

  • Warrior
  • ****
  • Posts: 284
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #189 on: July 28, 2010, 06:13:31 pm »
Michael, how did you hear about this diet in 2000?  I had never even heard of it until recently and i've been reading curezone and other similar forums since the early 2000's.

Offline Michael

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #190 on: July 28, 2010, 06:31:36 pm »
Hi Phil,

First things first.  The pull-up bar!  :) Would you be able to provide a sketch of the frame so I can fully appreciate precisely what you mean?  Does the top part of the frame protrude 7" from the wall or did you mean the depth of the entire frame was 7"?  If it's the latter then it should be fine.  I don't think the 5" height would be an issue.  The depth of my whole frame is about 6".  The frame itself is parallel to the wall and only the architrave protrudes - just a centimetre or two.  In my case, and I suppose in most cases, the legs rest on top of the architrave although the weight is transferred to the front bar which presses into the frame/opposite vertical architrave.  I think the guy has a video on the website and would probably be able to answer your question more reliably but I'm happy to help further.  Also, if the guy won't ship Internationally I'd be happy to pick one up from him (if possible) and send it to you myself if necessary.

Quote
Since my fruit experiments haven't gone well, I've been considering trying dried African yams at some point, but first I would need to find some and I would also like to know more about how to process them in traditional fashion, in case there are any other steps. I've seen mention of soaking or fermenting.
I wonder if it would be worth contacting Sally Fallon for some ideas?  I used to communicate with her 12 years ago in my WAP days (long before she was so well known) and she was always so friendly & helpful.  She even invited me to stay at her house to attend the US WAPF annual conference!  :)

Quote
Thanks for asking first instead of just telling me to eat tomatoes, like some folks seem to do.  Unfortunately I don't handle tomatoes well, which is another reason it's so hard to include carbs in my diet. Some carb fans don't seem to take individual problems like this into account (plus tomatoes are a nightshade and linked by Dr. Cordain to leaky gut syndrome, so not generally recommended in my book, except as an occasional treat).
No problem Phil.  I wouldn't dream of telling you or anyone else what to do.  I agree with your much recently expressed sentiments about the, perhaps unintentional, dictatorial, dogmatic and unnecessarily argumentative posts.
That's a shame you don't handle tomatoes.  I'm fortunate in that they don't seem to bother me - although I could be wrong.  As I understand it, some people are more sensitive to the alkaloids in nightshades than others.  I've long been conscious of the nightshade issue but probably haven't paid it enough attention so hadn't thought about or become aware of Dr. Cordain's link with leaky gut syndrome.  I don't consume much in the way of nightshades but it may be an idea to experiment cutting them out myself and see what happens!

Quote
Ah, my beloved raspberries. Sadly, not well tolerated. Doesn't stop me from cheating with berries or grapes once a week or two. My current compromise is to allow myself to grab a serving-spoon full of berries or grapes with olive oil once a week at work, but not buy them for home.
My favourite too along with gooseberries (a nightshade!).  I do occasionally indulge too but do notice the negative effects.  Probably wise not to buy them yourself.  My partner and I have taken to buying as many as 6 large boxes of frozen Scottish raspberries from a local farm shop on our way to collect raw jersey cream (for her!) from my friends organic farm.  When you do next indulge (and I limit it to perhaps once every month or two) I would strongly recommend serving the raspberries frozen and pouring lots of raw jersey cream over them.  It sets instantly into the most incredible raspberry ice-cream!!   :)  Sorry for the temptation!   >D

Quote
I knew about the minerals and salts, but not the sugars. That's interesting. Do you have the link?
I haven't read it myself yet as it would benefit from printing but here's a link to the pdf I found: http://jds.fass.org/cgi/reprint/13/4/336.pdf

Quote
I might make my own gluten-free air-dried raw fermented blood sausages, if I can get a grassfed source.
Sounds like a wonderful idea!  Something I've started thinking about with my new fancy mincer although I hadn't considered adding blood!

Quote
I was too heavily influenced by the pro-fruit/veg talk of people like Dr. Cordain, Dr. Lindeberg, PaleoFood forum members, family and friends. It has taught me to be even more skeptical than I already was and focus more on personal experimentation and listening to my own body. 
This is a lesson many of us need to learn.  Even Lex has spoken about travelling the wrong dietary paths and misplacing his faith in some of the 'gurus'.  I believe a healthy, questioning skepticism coupled with an open mind and a commitment to rigorous and rational investigation is a very wise approach to attain.  From reading your comments on this forum I believe you're getting close to achieving this position.

Quote
my back and legs were a little tired and slightly tense from chair-sitting today. If only I could squat at work.
That's interesting.  This is something I've been seriously thinking about recently - the dangerous implications of chairs!  Not only do they promote poor posture and weak disfunctional bodies, I suspect they also encourage a tired and lazy mind.  I've worked in various physically demanding outdoor jobs and, far too many, office desk based roles.  The contrast in energy and attitude between many of these workers is distinct!  I was recently thinking about designing/inventing an office desk which allowed workers only to stand at it!  Imagine an office full of people standing to do their paperwork, operate their computers and use their telephones!?  I think it would result in an absolute revolution in the workplace - healthy, energetic, pro-active workers, massive reductions in sick-time costs etc.  Well, that's given my idea away!!  :)
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline Michael

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #191 on: July 28, 2010, 06:53:14 pm »
Michael, how did you hear about this diet in 2000?  I had never even heard of it until recently and i've been reading curezone and other similar forums since the early 2000's.

Hi Nation,  It wasn't precisely this diet.  Around 1997 (following years of vegetarianism and eventually raw veganism) I first started reading WAP's Nutrition & Physical Degeneration, Edward Howells, TL Cleave etc, a little later Sally Fallon's book with who I used to discuss my thoughts.  I began eating a WAP inspired diet which gradually became increasingly raw and then, largely due to allergies & the move to raw, dropping things like grains.  I'm not sure when I first read AVs book but I think it was around 2001.  This just further solidified my own thoughts and experiences and moved me closer to a largely all meat diet.  Unfortunately, it was a few years after that which saw me finally give the raw dairy up as a bad job.  Having said that, I have recently reintroduced raw butter again due to difficulties sourcing good suet, marrow etc.
 
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #192 on: July 29, 2010, 12:06:36 pm »
Quote
raw jersey cream over them.
I don't handle dairy too well either. A few years ago I was off the charts on the antibody test for nearly every aspect of dairy. I had antibodies to most foods. The assistant who called me about the results was amazed at all the high numbers and told me "You'd better get in here." When my father was tested in his youth, similar results were found. He eliminated the worst offenders and his antibodies were much lower than mine when last tested--probably in part because he didn't develop the GI problems and leaky gut I did, which exacerbates the effect of antigens on the system.

Some people develop enough antibodies and severe enough reactions to most or all foods that they end up dying if their healthcare practitioners can't reduce the sensitivities. One physician finally succeeded by injecting into a woman's colon some feces in saline solution from her husband, to repopulate her gut flora. It was in the news recently.

Quote
I was recently thinking about designing/inventing an office desk which allowed workers only to stand at it!  
Long before us, Thomas Jefferson recognized the problem and built his own stand-up desk. I was just thinking today that I look forward to the day, if I live to see it, that computers are just some hologram in the air in front of us and we can stand, squat, recline, or walk (but not jog--see Sisson and De Vany on why not to jog chronically) on a treadmill while working. The software transcription will also need to be good enough to forego pen and paper.

So blood contains a quite a few important nutrients--carbs, minerals, salt, etc. Maybe the carbs in blood, liver, and fermented stomach contents are the carbs I'm designed to eat, more than fruit and tuber carbs? The guesses that the carbs in human mother's milk and the problems some have on ZC apparently don't necessarily prove that everyone requires plant carbs now that we know that there are multiple sources of animal carbs. Instead of saying that carbs in the animals our ancestors ate demonstrate our need for fruits or tubers, it's much simpler and more direct to say that they suggest our need for those very same animal carbs. If this is the case then foods like liver, sauerkraut and homemade gluten-free raw aged blood sausage might be very beneficial foods. There's already lots of info on the benefits of liver and fermented veg, we're just missing knowledge about blood and blood products. I'm getting the sense that exsanguinating animals and discarding the blood was another major blunder of (some) modern societies, though I have more to learn on this subject. It wasn't long ago that blood sausage was a common food for my ancestors in the British Isles and at least some French gourmet chefs apparently still don't bleed their chickens.

This is quite a clue you've given me, Michael. Exactly what I look for in forums and blogs. Thanks, and big up yuhself mi bredda!
« Last Edit: July 29, 2010, 05:16:59 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline nicole

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #193 on: July 30, 2010, 02:02:45 am »
Okay, yes I have noticed alot of the vegan customers are gay or lesbians too. The lesbians are usually dikes.
Give it to us raw, and wriggling. You keep nasty chips.

Offline Michael

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #194 on: July 30, 2010, 05:40:38 am »
I don't handle dairy too well either....
That's a shame.  I don't either so my indulgences are rare.  But, your sensitivity sounds worse than mine so total avoidance is probably wise.

Quote
One physician finally succeeded by injecting into a woman's colon some feces in saline solution from her husband, to repopulate her gut flora. It was in the news recently.
?!?  Is that for real?!

Quote
Long before us, Thomas Jefferson recognized the problem and built his own stand-up desk.
Damn!  Someone always steals my brilliant ideas even those of the past!  :)

Quote
I was just thinking today that I look forward to the day, if I live to see it, that computers are just some hologram in the air in front of us and we can stand, squat, recline, or walk (but not jog--see Sisson and De Vany on why not to jog chronically) on a treadmill while working. The software transcription will also need to be good enough to forego pen and paper.

I think you'll live to see this Phil.  I used to work as a software developer and seeing the capabilities now compared to when I was a 12 year old computer geek just astounds me!
Thanks for the Sisson and De Vany link.  I'll look into that.  I know KGH and others don't advocate distance running.  After months of egoscue preparation and building up my feet with barefoot/minimalist footwear, I've finally recently started running for the first time in my life but once a week is sufficient.  I'm not convinced, yet, that this is harmful if one is eating RPD.  Just for the record, I was amazed at my progress.  Having been very inactive for a long time (besides walking and cycling) I was expecting to be finished by the end of my road!  But, incredibly, I ran 4 miles through the woods and fields non-stop and even had enough in the tank for a sprint finish!!  That's years of RPD for you!  :)


Quote
So blood contains a quite a few important nutrients--carbs, minerals, salt, etc. Maybe the carbs in blood, liver, and fermented stomach contents are the carbs I'm designed to eat, more than fruit and tuber carbs?
I think you're right!

Quote
The guesses that the carbs in human mother's milk and the problems some have on ZC apparently don't necessarily prove that everyone requires plant carbs now that we know that there are multiple sources of animal carbs. Instead of saying that carbs in the animals our ancestors ate demonstrate our need for fruits or tubers, it's much simpler and more direct to say that they suggest our need for those very same animal carbs.
Yes!

Quote
If this is the case then foods like liver, sauerkraut and homemade gluten-free raw aged blood sausage might be very beneficial foods. There's already lots of info on the benefits of liver and fermented veg, we're just missing knowledge about blood and blood products. I'm getting the sense that exsanguinating animals and discarding the blood was another major blunder of (some) modern societies, though I have more to learn on this subject.
This opens up a whole new world of adventure doesn't it!?!  :)

Quote
It wasn't long ago that blood sausage was a common food for my ancestors in the British Isles and at least some French gourmet chefs apparently still don't bleed their chickens.

I can add to that, up until quite recently boiled pig's blood in an intestine was also a common food here in the UK.  It's known as 'black pudding' and used to be a staple on the menu in 'builder's cafes'.  My brother used to eat it every week!  I believe such foods are common place among many cultures.

Quote
This is quite a clue you've given me, Michael. Exactly what I look for in forums and blogs. Thanks, and big up yuhself mi bredda!

Glad to hear it Phil!  I really hope your further research on this path leads you to the promised land!  :)  Keep us posted!  Of course, if I have further information I will share it with you too.
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #195 on: August 01, 2010, 01:07:53 am »
On the other side of the coin of KGH, De Vany and others who discourage chronic jogging, there is the amazing example of the Taramuhara. Like you, I suspect that jogging isn't so bad if you're eating well, and especially if you jog on natural, rough, hilly terrain, but it seems reasonable that a more fractal method like walking interspersed with sprinting would be superior.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Michael

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #196 on: August 01, 2010, 04:48:45 am »
PaleoPhil, I agree and I particularly enjoyed your wonderfully descriptive phrase 'fractal method'.  I think that's precisely it and would of been precisely what would've been required in the HG lifestyle - without, of course, implying that 'paleolithic re-enactment' is a worthy goal.  'Chronic jogging' has a ring of unnatural falsity about it and exists only in a world of nike-air trainers and air-conditioned running mill zombies.  In my opinion, it would bare little resemblance with methods employed, for example, in persistence hunting.
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #197 on: August 01, 2010, 11:21:00 am »
"Quote
One physician finally succeeded by injecting into a woman's colon some feces in saline solution from her husband, to repopulate her gut flora. It was in the news recently."

?!?  Is that for real?!
Yes: How Microbes Defend and Define Us: Dr. Alexander Khoruts had run out of options, The New York Times, July 12, 2010.

.... 'Chronic jogging' has a ring of unnatural falsity about it and exists only in a world of nike-air trainers and air-conditioned running mill zombies.  In my opinion, it would bare little resemblance with methods employed, for example, in persistence hunting.
Precisely. Wild animals (and that includes humans in the wild) do not move in straight lines on smooth surfaces at slow, even paces, particularly not when they're fleeing the apex predator of nature, whom they have learned to fear--homo sapiens sapiens.

....I think, perhaps, a little harsh to judge PaleoPhil as another addict however.  My own understanding is that he's concerned with discovering the most viable means of raising carb intake to 5% of calories in line with the current thinking.  Based on the science, it appears that the protein-to-glucose conversion efficiency rate is inadequate (perhaps even dangerous?) and the wise thoughts of KGH, alphagruis' and others on the subject, I think, need serious consideration.

My perspective is that the jury is still out on our dietary requirement for carbohydrate. ....
I haven't ruled out either possibility. I'm trying out both hypotheses to see which works better for me. So far the no-need-for-carbs side is winning (though I'm not saying that my experience applies to anyone else and I do wonder if finding carbs I can handle in larger quantities would enable me to bulk up more). I haven't noticed any benefits from carb intake of any sort. However, some carbs don't appear to cause me any noticeable problems (namely, animal carbs from liver and eggs and the small amounts of carbs that nonstarchy veg like cabbage and ginger contain). Whether that's a clue to some sort of need for those small amounts of carbs, I don't know. Those foods contain nutrients that have been identified as valuable for humans, so the value may all be in those nutrients, rather than the carbs. Raw beef liver is the only (slightly) carby food that I feel really good after eating, the way I do with raw meat and animal fat. Sugar can give me a buzz/high, but it's not the same good feeling of well being. I've never seen the promoters of carbs report getting the well-being feeling from plant carbs that people like me report getting from raw meat and animal fat and "high meat". The high I get from coffee when I haven't drank it in a while is better than that from sugar, but it's still not the feeling of euphoric well being I get from raw meat/fat. Coffee and sugar tend to increase my muscle tension, whereas raw meat and fat relax my muscles.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2010, 11:30:47 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Michael

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 569
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #198 on: August 01, 2010, 11:31:35 pm »
"Quote
One physician finally succeeded by injecting into a woman's colon some feces in saline solution from her husband, to repopulate her gut flora. It was in the news recently."
Yes: How Microbes Defend and Define Us: Dr. Alexander Khoruts had run out of options, The New York Times, July 12, 2010.

Thanks for the link to the article Phil.  That was all very interesting.  Call me an old cynic but I got the distinct impression that the research being conducted on the microbiome is all aiming towards producing new, profitable medical products and interventions that can be sold to the SAD eating populace rather than using the knowledge gained to encourage a more microbiome friendly human existence.
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Matt Stone HED - Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??
« Reply #199 on: August 02, 2010, 02:31:17 am »
...Call me an old cynic but I got the distinct impression that the research being conducted on the microbiome is all aiming towards producing new, profitable medical products and interventions that can be sold to the SAD eating populace rather than using the knowledge gained to encourage a more microbiome friendly human existence.
Correctamundo! You think like me. :D

It's the same thing with celiac disease and gluten intolerance. Instead of thinking how to get gluten out of people's diets, the industry, medical and governmental leaders work on ways to genetically alter wheat and invent drugs to enable celiacs to go back to eating wheat. The profit motive (which includes public and secret contributions to politicians as well as ordinary sales margins) is still priority #1 in the modern world--and I admit that as someone with libertarian tendencies.

I posted in another thread a listing of lamb blood being extremely low in carbs, so the blood angle seems to be a dead end as far as carbs are concerned. If anything, Paleo blood consumption would argue for higher protein consumption rather than carbs.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk