Author Topic: Autism explained  (Read 117596 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,070
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2010, 04:47:26 am »
We are all grasping at threads here ,it is highly speculative as to the true causes and magnitude of what is called autism{I call it brain damage}.

If there is a legitimate concern among so many people about vaccination, then why isn't the medical establishment spending the same big money on double blind studies on vaccinated Vs non vaccinated as they do on other less damaging conditions.

This is the conspiracy I think we all can agree on..

The problem isn't being given proper and thorough scientific investigation, so it leaves us all guessing.

I do believe the magnitude of the issue goes beyond Autism

My own brother developed a life threatening condition{ITP} two days after the measles shot.
The doctors never even reported it as an adverse reaction and the whole incident was swept under the rug. My brother is not autistic, but he does have lower intelligence and did develop epilepsy in later childhood.

so according to medical authorities what happend to my brother is a conspiracy theory

my uncle Scott developed an autism type condition after the 10 month diptet, so my grandmother must be a conspiracy theorist as well , because she claimed that hour after the shot he started screaming and didn't stop for days
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2010, 08:32:34 am »
Actually, your conspiracy-theory-related notions are the biggest lies of all.It has been pointed out, time and again, that autism diagnoses-rates have risen while similiar other conditions have fallen re diagnoses-rates. Fortunately for me, the variosu conspiracy-theory-related sites re autism are considered absolutely laughable by most scientists, given the severe lack of rigorous scientific data they have. As for claims re diet and autism, I have myself pointed out that they have limited benefits for autism sufferers(that is, they do provide some minor benefits re digestion and even mood, but don't cure the actual condition of autism). And I've read all the usual nonsense re vaccines/autims/Dr Wakefield etc., and the evidence supporting it was always highly flawed at best. All I can say is that I am very glad this is in the hot topics forum(our "rubbish bin") as such ridiculous threads make rawpaleoforum look really bad.
This is mostly utter nonsense unrelated to anything I wrote. I included nothing on conspiracy theories or vaccines and don't believe they are a likely factor, so that is a straw man--you may be mixing up my posts with someone else's.

As for your grudging and late admission on diet--I already acknowledged that above, but you followed it with more negative remarks and your overall tone re: diet is one of dismissiveness. If diet DOES help even a little, then autism is NOT purely genetic, and if diet is at all a significant factor, then some of the increase in autism is possibly due to changes in Western diets. Just because a disease is classified as "genetic" doesn't guarantee that environment doesn't play an important role. You also can't have it both ways--you can't imply that autism is purely genetic and that the increase in autism rates is unrelated to diet and also claim to acknowledge diet as a significant factor.

As I mentioned above, I don't talk about cures--please don't confuse my posts with others that have used that term.
Quote
....and even death from natural causes(William has already suggested such re mention of palaeo era!) etc etc.
Another straw man. I was one of the people who took William to task for such absurdities.

Quote
We therefore need to be a lot more sceptical re the kind of 100s of extreme claims that AV has made.
I agree on that and was careful to point out above that my handling of the subject differs from AV's, but to go to the other extreme and focus only on genes and ignore or downplay the environmental aspects of autism is something we should also be skeptical of. It is counterproductive and is outside of the scientific mainstream on autism that you claim to support:

"[R]eductionist thinking can be misleading. If we only focused on the gene, which we cannot change, we would miss the importance of the environment, which we can change." --Michael J. Dougherty, Ph.D., Director of Education for the American Society of Human Genetics, "The Genetics of Autism," http://www.actionbioscience.org/genomic/dougherty.html

You usually at least provide some links to support your opinions. Your failure to do so this time suggests to me that you may not have put much study or thought into the subject of autism. Have you really investigated it or are you just shooting from the hip?
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 11:06:06 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2010, 04:52:53 pm »
As for your grudging and late admission on diet--I already acknowledged that above, but you followed it with more negative remarks and your overall tone re: diet is one of dismissiveness. If diet DOES help even a little, then autism is NOT purely genetic, and if diet is at all a significant factor, then some of the increase in autism is possibly due to changes in Western diets. Just because a disease is classified as "genetic" doesn't guarantee that environment doesn't play an important role. You also can't have it both ways--you can't imply that autism is purely genetic and that the increase in autism rates is unrelated to diet and also claim to acknowledge diet as a significant factor.

You're twisting what I said. All I stated(way back  in the past, not just now) was that non-gluten/non-casein diets have been useless as regards curing autism. I have also always stated that there have been minor benefits from those diets in terms of improving autistic peoples' digestion and/or mood. These aspects are minor issues that, of course, have nothing to do with the actual condition of autism. Similiarly, schizophrenics have reported some minor benefits re digestion and mood from such cooked palaeodiets, but no one would seriously claim that their schizophrenia was cured or improved as such.
Quote
You usually at least provide some links to support your opinions. Your failure to do so this time suggests to me that you may not have put much study or thought into the subject of autism. Have you really investigated it or are you just shooting from the hip?
Wrong again. Many years ago, some fool suggested I had Asperger's Syndrome and I, being a bit bored then, spent a large amount of time reading about the various characteristics of autism(including all those conspiracy-theory-related sites promising autism cures through diet etc.) and quickly worked out that it was physically impossible for me to have that condition. Still it wasn't all wasted as I, as a result, was eventually able to work out that I had chronic fatigue, muscle-weakness and a 100 other adrenal-related disorders, and finally came round to doing this lifesaving rawpaleodiet.

There is plenty of stuff debunking the usual nonsense. Here's a study which points out that NGNC diets are useless re autism, just being useful for digestive-related disorders and the like:-  http://www.rodale.com/autism-diets
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 05:04:40 pm by TylerDurden »
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2010, 05:25:14 pm »
You're twisting what I said. All I stated(way back  in the past, not just now) was that non-gluten/non-casein diets have been useless as regards curing autism. I have also always stated that there have been minor benefits from those diets in terms of improving autistic peoples' digestion and/or mood. These aspects are minor issues that, of course, have nothing to do with the actual condition of autism. Similiarly, schizophrenics have reported some minor benefits re digestion and mood from such cooked palaeodiets, but no one would seriously claim that their schizophrenia was cured or improved as such.  Wrong again. Many years ago, some fool suggested I had Asperger's Syndrome and I, being a bit bored then, spent a large amount of time reading about the various characteristics of autism(including all those conspiracy-theory-related sites promising autism cures through diet etc.) and quickly worked out that it was physically impossible for me to have that condition. Still it wasn't all wasted as I, as a result, was eventually able to work out that I had chronic fatigue, muscle-weakness and a 100 other adrenal-related disorders, and finally came round to doing this lifesaving rawpaleodiet.

There is plenty of stuff debunking the usual nonsense. Here's a study which points out that NGNC diets are useless re autism, just being useful for digestive-related disorders and the like:-  http://www.rodale.com/autism-diets

Yep ok. Your still getting confused with absolutes.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2010, 05:40:03 pm »
Not confused at all. I am aware that a rawpalaeodiet can effectively  cure digestive disorders and even mood-related issues - and I have no problem with people stating such. What is not acceptable is for someone to claim that autism or some similiar serious genetic condition  can itself be cured or improved by diet as that is an entirely  separate issue from digestion or mood. I just think we lose credibility if we make outrageous claims re raw diets. Besides, if this sort of thing isn't nipped in the bud, members like William and others will in future  think nothing of making claims that a rawpalaeodiet will help regrow limbs etc.

"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #30 on: August 16, 2010, 05:59:23 pm »
You are wrong. Sorry.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

alphagruis

  • Guest
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #31 on: August 16, 2010, 06:32:10 pm »
Yeah you don't need to be a doctor to notice autism. It's obviously epigenetics as the brightest star says LOL (nearly as bad as my username) says older mothers are much more likely to give birth to autistic kids.

shit diet, exposure to toxins, damaged eggs, damaged sperm.


Just the brightest star (Alnaïr) of a very small region in the sky, the Gruis (crane) constellation, in your southern hemisphere.  

A fairly modest star actually in terms of brightness as compared to tens of others such as Sirius or even the close neighbour constellation star named Fomalhaut.

But in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.  :)


alphagruis

  • Guest
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2010, 06:42:56 pm »
You are wrong. Sorry.

Yes, of course, Tyler is absolutely wrong in this respect, no doubt about this.


Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2010, 06:46:59 pm »
I'm not really worried. I realise that conspiracy-theories re Dr Wakefield and the noble savage claims of weston-price are a favourite in the field of unusual diets. It's the hopeless romantic in many people, I suspect.  I'm just  adding a bit of common-sense as there is no current genuinely science/validity behind the claims re diet curing or actually improving autism as such(just non-autistic stuff such as digestion/mood).
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,070
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2010, 07:21:38 pm »
Even the blind can rely on their third eye and with it the are able see into the abyss of ignorance with a clarity that can liberate us all ,from the darkness that shrouds the truth

Please keep in mind that I am part of the Thimerisol generation(children who were born in the 80s and 90s received more thimerisol containing vaccines than anyone in history and from my research I believe are the most damaged) If you study the history as I have you could discover that back in the 1920s thimerisol was being used in the development of animal vaccines but was discontinued because it was proven to be unsafe, even in the use of ANIMALS .This was discovered in the 1920s so why was it still being injected into children 8 decades later,(I tell you its sinister) >D

Something happened to my own mind as a child that left me dyslexic and withdrawn and awkward socially, I didn't really learn to read at grade level until I was a about ten,

The damaged brain is capable of forging new pathways and seeking new horizons in those young enough, that's why some autistic people develop savant like capabilities(Its the non damaged part of the part brain trying to cope with the loss of function on the damaged part)

So I am I high school drop out and conflicted soul who has no credential for arguing about brain science, and yet some voice is screaming from within that there is something not right, I never bought into the lie that infants needed to be shot up at birth with genetically modified hepatitis DNA,or genetically modified measles,diphtheria,tetanus, and on and on and on(whether or not it causes brain damage)

There is still no one who can tell me how and why is this herpes 6 virus is found in autistic children along with live measles and how the two agents cause the development of antibodies against parts of the brain. So until anyone can enlighten me on that front, I am going to scream foul play.

Just because all the kings horses and all the kings men couldn't put humpty together again, should not distract us from the fact that poor humpty dumpty was pushed to his demise by an evil hand.
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

alphagruis

  • Guest
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #35 on: August 16, 2010, 08:41:36 pm »
Tyler, I never claimed that the present situation re autism or else is the result of any conspiration. It's just an emergent phenomenon from interplay between human idioty, greed, definite reluctance to seriously question the pertinence of the western  modern civilized man's lifestyle in any of its aspects that would have as a consequence to cost too many of us much money.

There is a simple rule that states that it is definitely impossible to convince someone of something that would cost him money or a   reputation.    
« Last Edit: August 16, 2010, 08:55:59 pm by alphagruis »

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2010, 08:46:58 pm »
Tyler, I never claimed that the present situation is the result of any conspiration.

I was talking in a general sense, not you specifically. Conspiracy theories are very big in the field of autism, with vaccines, mercury etc. etc. variously being blamed for autism, along with dodgy practices such as chelation therapy being advocated as dubious ways to supposedly "cure" autism.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,961
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2010, 12:48:12 am »
This whole argument started off with a video.
The video was of a girl who was considered a hopeless case. Call it what you want that was the diagnosis. However through what appeared to be an accidental introduction of her to a keyboard she was suddenly able to communicate. I get the feeling it was the first case of this ever. Can anyone confirm or deny this? If she is the first then indeed we now have a window into their world where various modalities in the medical profession can at least have a fighting chance to do something to possibly improve their lives. Everything is a brick in the wall.

What effect diet would have, I have no idea nor does anybody yet on this forum so far. Some have had minor success in treating symptoms with diet, that is agreed. My thoughts are that someone out there who is in the position to do something about it might be tempted to explore this modality. Indeed diet may have a long term or generational effect as in Pottenger's cats

Some believe that injected vaccines may play a part. Jury is still out despite what some my believe. I am drawn to recall the doctor who worked for the tobacco companies and who defended them with his storefront "health" organization that said smoking was OK for your health. He finally died of some sort of cancer I heard.

As to whether AV really was afflicted with any illness, who knows or cares. This is not a discussion about him. It's about the girl and can we figure out a way to help the huge # of people with this issue. This is the internet and lots of people who know lots of things are reading this and hopefully they can add to the stew er raw stew :o

Somewhere out there is an Alexander Graham Bell who is going to be in the position of doing something about autism like what he did for the deaf.
Cheers
Al

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2010, 02:58:15 am »
If she can only communicate via keyboard, it's hardly a cure. Sort of like providing an artificial leg for someone who has lost a leg. In case, someone foolishly claims that the latter is basically a cure, I should add that I have had 2 relatives with missing feet/legs, as applicable, and their prostheses were in 1 case utterly useless, and in another case,caused considerable pain which required constant drug-use to overcome.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,070
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2010, 05:33:22 am »
The reason that she can communicate with a keyboard could be that visual language skills require a different undamaged section of the brain than face to face verbal communication, it gives hope to some and proves that the brain is able cope with early damage well enough to develop the undamaged areas, but I don think it leads us to any new truth about the condition

Sad, cynical, and sorry deductions;(  

I use to volenter to help the autistic kids with physical education while in middle school, many were just like that girl in the video most of them I thought were void of soul, but now I wonder , maybe if they had the type of training that girl had, something more humane could of become of them.

Of course the same principled training regime if applied to the undamaged could have the same amazing results for anyone
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2010, 06:57:11 am »
You're twisting what I said. All I stated(way back  in the past, not just now) was that non-gluten/non-casein diets have been useless as regards curing autism.
There you go again, using extreme language like "curing" and "useless". No one has to twist your words, you do a heck of a job on your own. ;D Many parents, some healthcare practitioners and some autism organizations report that dietary and nutritional therapy has reduced some (not all) autistic children's symptoms, so it's not a "useless" approach and it was identified by scientists and physicians as one of the potential environmental factors in the article I excerpted from above.

Quote
 I have also always stated that there have been minor benefits from those diets in terms of improving autistic peoples' digestion and/or mood. These aspects are minor issues that, of course, have nothing to do with the actual condition of autism.
That's your opinion and just more hot air. I can understand getting ticked off at people quoting some of AV's unusual claims and advice as though it were gospel, but you're going way overboard with it on this topic.

Quote
Wrong again. Many years ago, some fool suggested I had Asperger's Syndrome....
Aha! Now we're getting somewhere. I had a feeling you had an emotional investment in this topic because you didn't even bother to post sources up till now and your language was even more strident than usual. I'll empathize with your bad history in this area, but I also urge you to consider that some other people's experiences have been very different from yours.

Quote
There is plenty of stuff debunking the usual nonsense. Here's a study which points out that NGNC diets are useless re autism, just being useful for digestive-related disorders and the like:-  http://www.rodale.com/autism-diets
Yeah, I read about that when it hit the news. You realize that it's not the only study on the subject and that there are positive studies on dietary/nutritional therapy as well, right?

From the article you cited:
Quote
"The children were all screened for milk allergies, lactose intolerance, and celiac disease (a condition in which the body can't process gluten properly)."
In other words, the children most likely to benefit from the diet were excluded from the study. If the diet only helps children who are allergic to or intolerant of lactose or gluten, it's still beneficial for them, whether it improves autism specifically or not.

Some balance from your own source that you failed to mention:
Quote
WHAT IT MEANS: If you want to try GFCF diets with your autistic child, go ahead, says Dr. Hyman, but be aware that there are a lot of factors that influence behavior in children with this disorder. ....

"Children with autism may benefit from a GFCF diet"
So even Dr. Hyman is much less negative than you, unsurprisingly. One reason Dr. Hyman has to cover her ass and admit that a GFCG diet may help some autistic children is that she has witnessed at least one successful dairy-free diet therapy herself:

Quote
[M]y husband and I kept our appointment with a well-known developmental pediatrician to confirm the diagnosis of autism. Dr. Susan Hyman gave Miles a variety of tests and asked a lot of questions. We described the changes in his behavior since he'd stopped eating dairy products. Finally, Dr. Hyman looked at us sadly. "I'm sorry," the specialist said. "Your son is autistic. I admit the milk allergy issue is interesting, but I just don't think it could be responsible for Miles' autism or his recent improvement."

We were terribly disheartened, but as each day passed, Miles continued to get better. A week later, when I pulled him up to sit on my lap, we made eye contact and he smiled. I started to cry -- at last he seemed to know who I was. He had been oblivious to his sister, but now he watched her play and even got angry when she took things away from him. Miles slept more soundly, but his diarrhea persisted. Although he wasn't even 2 yet, we put him in a special-ed nursery school three mornings a week and started an intensive one-on-one behavioral and language program that Dr. Hyman approved of.

I'm a natural skeptic and my husband is a research scientist, so we decided to test the hypothesis that milk affected Miles' behavior. We gave him a couple of glasses one morning, and by the end of the day, he was walking on his toes, dragging his forehead across the floor, making strange sounds, and exhibiting the other bizarre behaviors we had almost forgotten. A few weeks later, the behaviors briefly returned, and we found out that Miles had eaten some cheese at nursery school. We became completely convinced that dairy products were somehow related to his autism.

I wanted Dr. Hyman to see how well Miles was doing, so I sent her a video of him playing with his father and sister. She called right away. "I'm simply floored," she told me. "Miles has improved remarkably. Karyn, if I hadn't diagnosed him myself, I wouldn't have believed that he was the same child."

I had to find out whether other kids had had similar experiences. I bought a modem for my [PC] -- not standard in 1995 -- and discovered an autism support group on the Internet. A bit embarrassed, I asked, "Could my child's autism be related to milk?"

The response was overwhelming. Where had I been? Didn't I know about Karl Reichelt in Norway? Didn't I know about Paul Shattock in England? These researchers had preliminary evidence to validate what parents had been reporting for almost 20 years: Dairy products exacerbated the symptoms of autism. .... (http://www.parents.com/toddlers-preschoolers/health/autism/we-cured-our-sons-autism/)
Regardless of how many real cases of autism are helped by GFCF or RPD, if you believe in the RPD, then presumably you think that eliminating gluten and dairy is a healthy step for everyone anyway, right? Heck, you yourself benefited from RPD, so the fact that you didn't have Asperger's is rather irrelevant to the question of whether or not you should have tried RPD. Don't you believe that anyone who acquires sufficient education in how to do it right should try RPD? If alleged autism symptoms then reduce, great. If not, it's still a healthy diet when done properly, right?

Here's some more from Dr. Hyman and one of her colleagues:
Quote
"This is a small study," Hyman acknowledges. "Families will continue to try the diet, and that's OK." But, she says, they must ensure their growing children receive adequate nutrition.

Pamela Compart, co-author of The Kid-Friendly ADHD and Autism Cookbook, calls the study "clean and well thought out." But, says Compart, a pediatrician in Columbia, Md., who trained with Hyman, researchers may have seen behavioral changes if they had looked 72 hours after the snacks or if they also had eliminated soy from kids' diets.

"If you're able to keep them well-nourished, I think it's worth every child trying it," Compart says of the special diet. "People would not stay on this diet if they didn't think it was working."

Hyman and Compart agree on the need for further scientific investigation into the role of diet in autism. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2010-05-20-autism20_ST_N.htm)
Here, here! Dr. Hyman's outlook is far more reasonable and balanced than what you have posted so far. She makes my points well enough for me that I don't even need any counter-sources to hers.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 07:03:17 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,961
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2010, 09:43:44 am »
Interesting post Phil,
The good thing is that when forced to show the error of someone's ways  ;) ;D :o one is forced to do homework ourselves and get to the heart of the matter.

Tyler can be a devil's advocate whether or not he realizes it. Devil's advocates serve a useful purpose and some might say pivotal because if there is one thing that gets me going is when someone says those fateful words.... No that's impossible. :o
Cheers
Al

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2010, 09:48:17 am »
Yup, devil's advocates are useful. :D

Ironically, Tyler says more negative things about RPD than anyone at the Dirty Carnivore forum does. However, that makes for good debate that helps me organize my thoughts and direct my research, so it's often quite helpful if I can look past the barbs ;) and I end up spending more time here than there.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 11:41:34 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2010, 05:43:01 pm »
There you go again, using extreme language like "curing" and "useless". No one has to twist your words, you do a heck of a job on your own. ;D Many parents, some healthcare practitioners and some autism organizations report that dietary and nutritional therapy has reduced some (not all) autistic children's symptoms, so it's not a "useless" approach and it was identified by scientists and physicians as one of the potential environmental factors in the article I excerpted from above.

The trouble with your ludicrous claims is that mainstream scientists are fully convinced from the evidence that there is no justification for claiming that diet can cure  autistic symptoms. The only people you can point to are proven charlatans like Dr Wakefield.

What is truly disgraceful is that charlatans all over have been making false claims about chelation-therapy etc., in order to pretend that autism is cureable. It isn't. Curing a few non-related symptoms such as digestion or mood is irrelevant to the issue of autism. What I fear is that some deluded parents of autistic children(such as those who believed in the fairy-tales re vaccines etc.)  will be given false hope re some RPF members' more foolish claims re autism and try this diet only to be very cruelly disappointed. That kind of immorality STINKS, quite frankly.
Quote
That's your opinion and just more hot air. I can understand getting ticked off at people quoting some of AV's unusual claims and advice as though it were gospel, but you're going way overboard with it on this topic.
 Rubbish as usual. As I pointed out, this is not merely my opinion but standard scientific concensus. Pretty much all you have on your side are loony conspiracy-theorists or charlatans like Dr Wakefield.

As for the asperger's comment, the truly sad thing is that is quite obviously apparent that you have done only a tiny fraction of research on autism. Otherwise, you would have read(and understood) some of the data I read years back which showed no genuine cure for autism with diet. The few genuine claims re diet have all been strongly disputed and improved training-copnditions/environment have been cited as being far more likely reasons for improvement than diet.

As for the issues re autism and diet, you still seem very confused and unable to grasp that there is an obvious major difference between autism itself and non-related conditions such as digestive disorders/mood-related issues.Sure, everyone from autistics to haemophiliacs to amputees to those with burst appendices,  or schizophrenics or those brain-damaged at birth  etc. will benefit from a non-gluten/non-casein diet as regards improved digestion/decreased aging etc. but such a diet will not cure or relieve autism nor will it help to regrow limbs or repair a burst appendix or whatever.We have to be realistic and at least honest and not pretend that a rawpalaeodiet will grant immortality or cure autism or similiar nonsense.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

alphagruis

  • Guest
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2010, 07:51:17 pm »
The important point or question is actually not whether or not RPD "cures" autism or many other ailments. Obviously irreversible damage may be caused to the fetus during pregnancy because of poisoning of the mother by SAD, vaccines, drugs, heavy metal exposure etc etc at crucial steps of embryo development and this definitely cannot be "cured" actually in any way, just somewhat improved or allieviated.

The important point is rather whether or not RPD and consequent non exposure to modern medical or dental "care", harmful chemicals, vaccines etc  would have prevented essentially these ailments to appear initially.

And to this question the answer is most likely a definitive yes since as I already said the occurence of these conditions is extremely rare in primitive non civilized societies on traditional diets with no modern medical care or ubiquitous harmful chemicals and neurotoxins exposure.


Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #45 on: August 17, 2010, 08:43:37 pm »
Well, even wild animals on 100% raw, natural diets have a chance of producing offspring with genetic birth-defects. So, diet alone can't solve all issues.

I have no problem with RVAF diets being cited as helping digestive-related disorders, age-related disorders and the like. I just don't like the notion of diets being claimed to help conditions that are lifelong and ultimately incurable. It would be interesting, though if people on NG/NC diets had far fewer rates of autistic etc. children.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,961
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #46 on: August 17, 2010, 09:06:15 pm »
I got this email from another source yesterday and it is interesting and shows that psychological physical issues may not be strictly in the realm of incurable.

"This is the same one that pregnant women (and people with suppressed
immune systems) have to watch out for. Most of immune systems handle it
under normal circumstances. Some interesting stuff material relating to
this article immediately below can be found in the one from wikipedia
linked after it . . .

Schizophrenia Caused By Cat Parasite

Johns Hopkins University scientists trying to determine why people
develop serious mental illness are focusing on an unlikely factor: a
common parasite spread by cats.

The researchers say the microbes, called Toxoplasma gondii, invade the
human brain and appear to upset its chemistry--creating, in some people,
the
psychotic behaviors recognized as schizophrenia.

If tackling the parasite can help solve the mystery of schizophrenia,
"it's a pretty good opportunity ... to relieve a pretty large burden of
disease," said Dr. Robert H. Yolken, director of developmental
neurobiology at the Johns Hopkins Children's Center.

http://snipr.com/1058mo

Toxoplasmosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasmosis  "
Cheers
Al

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2010, 09:21:31 pm »
Something like a third or a half of people worldwide are "infected" with toxoplasma but don't have any symptoms. It may simply be that a specific strain on the body or brain makes people already genetically prone to schizophrenia more likely to get an attack, nothing solely  to do with toxoplasma, as such.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,961
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #48 on: August 18, 2010, 12:13:08 am »
If she can only communicate via keyboard, it's hardly a cure. Sort of like providing an artificial leg for someone who has lost a leg. In case, someone foolishly claims that the latter is basically a cure, I should add that I have had 2 relatives with missing feet/legs, as applicable, and their prostheses were in 1 case utterly useless, and in another case,caused considerable pain which required constant drug-use to overcome.
Tyler,
Thought you might like a peek;  ???
"Human Regeneration

Two research reports published Friday offer novel approaches to the
age-old dream of regenerating the body from its own cells. Animals like
newts and zebra fish can regenerate limbs, fins, even part of the heart.
If only people could do the same, amputees might grow new limbs and
stricken hearts be coaxed to repair themselves.

But humans have very little regenerative capacity, probably because of
an
evolutionary trade-off: suppressing cell growth reduced the risk of
cancer,
enabling humans to live longer. A person can renew his liver to some
extent, and regrow a fingertip while very young, but not much more.

In the first of the two new approaches, a research group at Stanford
University led by Helen M. Blau, Jason H. Pomerantz and Kostandin V.
Pajcini has taken a possible first step toward unlocking the human
ability to regenerate. By inactivating two genes that work to suppress
tumors, they got mouse
muscle cells to revert to a younger state, start dividing and help
repair
tissue.

http://snipr.com/10akro "
Cheers
Al

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Autism explained
« Reply #49 on: August 18, 2010, 01:08:59 am »
Limb regeneration might well work via science but not via diet!
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk