Author Topic: Example of propaganda  (Read 6863 times)

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Offline majormark

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Example of propaganda
« on: September 25, 2010, 05:28:37 pm »

The two videos demonstrate how well the average population responds to propaganda (they have 1000+ likes).

Also notice how little RAF is mentioned. This shows the current tendency to include it in the same ballpark as raw vegan diets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKKvmFZBALo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD11em1uXgk

Offline Brother

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 06:14:09 pm »
I wrote the guy and invited him here. He is clearly intelligent and well meaning. I dont believe for a second that these videos are propaganda, but his researched oppinion. RAF are still relatively obscure, so if he havent heard much of it, the right thing to do is inform and make him take a look at it, not call him out as a propagandist. my 2c

Offline RawZi

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 06:57:21 pm »
    Concordance dot gov.  Hmm.  I love the United States.  I'm not sure the government is a true representation of it though.  Why would he want to stop doing what he's doing?  Maybe he has ties to his job you can't imagine. 
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline Brother

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 07:05:08 pm »
    Concordance dot gov.  Hmm.  I love the United States.  I'm not sure the government is a true representation of it though.  Why would he want to stop doing what he's doing?  Maybe he has ties to his job you can't imagine. 

Maybe I saw another video. But the only argument I heard him make was to eat sanely and not religiously. Most of the points made in the video are perfectly valid. it would be interresting to hear his/their take on RAF. I would certainly appreciate it.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2010, 08:22:59 pm »
No where in those videos were we represented, how can you compare a raw vegan to someone like me who eats 2 pounds of raw beef a day with lamb fat being the main source of calories, I must live in some parallel universe that doesn't fit his well researched paradigms

We need to bring that guy over here and show him there are alternative diets that are far Superior than anything mentioned in his videos.( take the raw paleo challenge)
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline michaelwh

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2010, 10:00:21 pm »
This guy also has a poorly-researched video about the "germ theory":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyodvwxe4mE&feature=player_embedded

Bechamp was an "insect biologist"? Where did he get this from? I've read a lot about Bechamp. Silkworm disease is just one of the many things that Bechamp studied. Many of his other experiments had nothing to do with insects. He was a professor of chemistry and pharmacology at Montpellier university.

And Pasteur's recanting of the germ theory is not a fabrication. He may not have literally said it on his deathbed, but he did say it shortly before his death, and it has been documented. See the book "Antoine Bechamp: l'homme et le savant" by Marie Nonclercq.

Finally, if this guy had bothered to do any serious research, he would have found irrefutable proof that Pasteur plagiarized Bechamp's work, and that it is Bechamp who should rightly be called the father of microbiology.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2010, 04:50:26 am »
When I see something like this I always suspect that the person behind it is selling something and is afraid the market will dry up.
Cheers
Al

Offline PrimalLadyRosy

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propaganda
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2010, 06:38:57 am »
I just made a group for people to argue against germ theory.  You don't have to eat raw or eat animal foods to join.

http://primaldietfriends.spruz.com/member/?g=B37F97AC-D0B7-429B-B7AB-339499AC6862

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyodvwxe4mE

 
I am the creator of the primal diet friends social networking site, thanks to Jim and Barbara Ellingson's suggestion.

Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2010, 08:44:11 am »
And when people on this forum begin advocating for obvious quackery like germ theory denialism, it makes it very challenging for normal folks like myself to keep our accounts active on this website.  I wish we had a way of moderating comments and threads...

Offline PrimalLadyRosy

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2010, 09:07:47 am »
Hi Eric.  I can probably get it removed.  Raw animal foods just seem to help so much, that germs don't hurt me anymore, and I know the same for many others.  I know other people too who eat mostly cooked and no raw animal foods, and they don't subscribe to the germ theory, and their immune systems seem to get stronger when they stopped worrying about germs.  Call the post in question a joke in poor taste.  I just feel really well having learned ways around antiseptics, antibiotics, unnatural solvents and detergents.
I am the creator of the primal diet friends social networking site, thanks to Jim and Barbara Ellingson's suggestion.

Offline michaelwh

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2010, 09:32:14 am »
When I see something like this I always suspect that the person behind it is selling something and is afraid the market will dry up.

I don't think this guy is selling anything. He has a lot of videos against intelligent design and creationism. He recently posted a video about new genome sequencing technologies, in which he says that he is a mainstream genomics researcher. For some reason, he feels the need to make video after video bashing all non-mainstream ideas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XMO5VfLIKs

I found most of this video interesting, and it's certainly amazing how far this technology has come. But I disagree with the ending remarks. Despite our wonderful technological advances, our health is going down the tubes. Cancer rates are skyrocketing, T2 diabetes and cardiovascular problems show up at younger ages, etc -- this is not progress at all. I think that it's unfortunate that so much of genomics research is concerned with medical applications (for example, trying to find a "cancer gene" or "diabetes gene"). These diseases can be healed with nutrition and pollution avoidance, and I think that looking for genes related to them is a waste of time.

I think that it would be much more fruitful to study more fundamental questions in genomics. It would be very interesting if we could understand biology to the point, that we could develop a high-level programming langauge to design an organism from scratch, and then compile it into DNA. (Of course, I know that this won't happen any time soon. I'm just fantasizing.)

Offline michaelwh

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2010, 09:56:42 am »
And when people on this forum begin advocating for obvious quackery like germ theory denialism, it makes it very challenging for normal folks like myself to keep our accounts active on this website.  I wish we had a way of moderating comments and threads...

I never said that I'm a "germ theory denialist", or that Bechamp was right about everything. I merely pointed out the factual inaccuracies in the video. I certainly agree that it is difficult to reconcile pleomorphism with modern microbiology. But I don't think that pleomorphism has been rigorously disproved. I think that it's fair to say, that pleomorphism is "in limbo".

Much of the research on pleomorphism was done using optical microscopes, observing living cells. This went out of style when the electron microscope came on the scene, and allowed much higher magnifications. But unfortunately, the electron microscope cannot observe living cells. Making observations with an electron microscope is very complicated. There's a long list of procedures, which include dehydration, fixation, and applying strong reagents. Hillman and Sartory did some comparisons of light microscopy vs electron microscopy on neurological tissue, and found important discrepancies. They wrote a whole bunch of books and papers on this topic.

As for the germ theory, and the way in which it is applied by modern medicine -- it reminds me of the epicycle theory of the solar system -- it can describe the observed phenomena, but it "places the wrong thing at the center of the stage", and is consequently very awkward and convoluted. I think that anybody who eats high meat on a regular basis would agree with this.

I see no need to delete PrimalLadyRosy's post. If you think it's "obvious quackery", then ignore it. There have been plenty of controversial discussions on this board which have been called "obvious quackery" (for example, vaccines and autism). The term "obvious quackery" is quite subjective, so I don't think we should delete or moderate posts on this basis alone.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2010, 10:23:39 am »
Michaelwh,
Thanks for the further delineation on the subject. I've read a few books on the subject. Candice Pert "The Molecules of Emotion" and "The Human Genome Project".

I stand by my first conclusion. This man is making a living with molecular biology. If people dis' him and his technology in favour of a simpler way of life, he is out of a job.

This reductionistic information may be fascinating, but unfortunately when he waxes poetic, he forgets to mention that this technology is also used to produce GMO foods. Eventually what he is up to is playing God with the food supply. From what I heard, he was saying he has even grander plans for mobilizing his Frankenstein experiments on the public. Unfortunately this clown and his associates have convinced governments that these foods and other manipulations of human beings be allowed to be sold to the general public who believe that our elected officials are keeping us all safe. We cannot even see a label that says we are buying GMO or irradiated foods in Canada. We are all part of a Frankestein experiment conducted by this man and his ilk, who from the soundtrack on the video believes he is just that little bit more intelligent than the minions that surround him as he walks down the street.

He jumps from topic to topic in his self-delusion. Somehow gravity and Charles Darwin have something to do with food.

When a person speaks so absolutely certain that his opinion is the one and only right one, that is a sure sign that he is deluded. Hitler was pretty certain he was right. He was so certain that he wouldn't look out of his staff car as he drove through the ruins of war. His goal was more important than the collateral damage and that is the way that the narrator in this pathetic dialogue came across.

I like the way you described "obvious quakery" If I read you right you are saying that obvious quakery to one man is the truth to another. Very eloquently said. You posted it as I was about to reply.

I read a book on Pasteur and he was a brilliant man. He made some very important discoveries in a world where religion had a liplock on the truth with "Spontaneous Generation", the nonsense of the Catholic church. Now we have moved on and taken this reductionism too far in the other direction.

I agree with your excellent argument that posts should not be deleted because who here wants to play God.
Cheers
Al

Offline majormark

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2010, 03:52:29 pm »
..  I just feel really well having learned ways around antiseptics, antibiotics, unnatural solvents and detergents.

What's your way around detergents?

I tried indian soap nuts and they dont work at all.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2010, 10:10:53 pm »
majormark,
I am not convinced of the necessity of detergents, unless you oil soak your clothes.

However a friend and I used to make soap from lye and fat. Lye is simply the droppings from water that has run through ashes. Not paleo obviously.

AV uses lemon to clean dishes as is witnessed in his video on Ripleys.
Cheers
Al

Offline michaelwh

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2010, 10:36:21 am »
Michaelwh,
Thanks for the further delineation on the subject. I've read a few books on the subject. Candice Pert "The Molecules of Emotion" and "The Human Genome Project".
Thanks for the book recommendations. I read a few reviews of Candice Pert's book, and plan to buy it. Who are the authors of "The Human Genome Project"? I found a few different books with that same title.

By the way, an interesting modern book that makes the case for a pleomorphic view of bacteria, is "A New Bacteriology" by Sonea and Panisset. Their main argument is that bacteria have numerous mechanisms for very quickly changing their DNA and responding to the environment, and that they should not be classified as individual species, but instead be thought of as constituents of one earth-wide "super-organism". This super-organism is what James Lovelock would call "Gaia".

I stand by my first conclusion. This man is making a living with molecular biology. If people dis' him and his technology in favour of a simpler way of life, he is out of a job.

This reductionistic information may be fascinating, but unfortunately when he waxes poetic, he forgets to mention that this technology is also used to produce GMO foods. Eventually what he is up to is playing God with the food supply. From what I heard, he was saying he has even grander plans for mobilizing his Frankenstein experiments on the public. Unfortunately this clown and his associates have convinced governments that these foods and other manipulations of human beings be allowed to be sold to the general public who believe that our elected officials are keeping us all safe. We cannot even see a label that says we are buying GMO or irradiated foods in Canada. We are all part of a Frankestein experiment conducted by this man and his ilk, who from the soundtrack on the video believes he is just that little bit more intelligent than the minions that surround him as he walks down the street.

I agree. Unfortunately, many people sincerely believe that GMOs are the solution to world hunger. I worked through a standard first-year undergrad biology textbook. It had a chapter on genetic engineering. It explained how GMOs such as "golden rice" were developed, and how such innovations have the potential to end world hunger, and make us all healthier. At the very end of the chapter, it was very briefly mentioned that GMOs have received opposition. I was horrified. This stuff is taught to first-year undergrads, and most of them will believe this without questioning.

Science and technology is a double-edged sword. Not only in biology. For example, understanding nuclear physics was a wonderful intellectual accomplishment, but unfortunately, it led to horrible weapons of mass destruction.


I like the way you described "obvious quakery" If I read you right you are saying that obvious quakery to one man is the truth to another. Very eloquently said. You posted it as I was about to reply.
Yes, that's what I meant.

I read a book on Pasteur and he was a brilliant man. He made some very important discoveries in a world where religion had a liplock on the truth with "Spontaneous Generation", the nonsense of the Catholic church. Now we have moved on and taken this reductionism too far in the other direction.

Which book was this? As I said in my earlier post, many of Pasteur's discoveries, including the abolishment of spontaneous generation, were  partly or fully plagiarized from Bechamp. The book by Marie Nonclercq explains this in detail. If you don't read French, and don't want to spend hours with a dictionary, the following English books also explain this:

Bechamp or Pasteur? A Lost Chapter in the History of Biology
by Ethel Douglas Hume

Pasteur: Plagiarist, Impostor : The Germ Theory Exploded
by R. B. Pearson

(on Amazon, you can get both of these in a single volume)

As for spontaneous generation -- actually, we know from high-energy particle physics that a particle-antiparticle pair CAN in fact be "spontaneously generated". But this is very different from what was meant by "spontaneous generation" in the 19th century.

Offline raw-al

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Re: Example of propaganda
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2010, 11:32:19 am »
Thanks for the book recommendations. I read a few reviews of Candice Pert's book, and plan to buy it. Who are the authors of "The Human Genome Project"? I found a few different books with that same title.

By the way, an interesting modern book that makes the case for a pleomorphic view of bacteria, is "A New Bacteriology" by Sonea and Panisset. Their main argument is that bacteria have numerous mechanisms for very quickly changing their DNA and responding to the environment, and that they should not be classified as individual species, but instead be thought of as constituents of one earth-wide "super-organism". This super-organism is what James Lovelock would call "Gaia".

I agree. Unfortunately, many people sincerely believe that GMOs are the solution to world hunger. I worked through a standard first-year undergrad biology textbook. It had a chapter on genetic engineering. It explained how GMOs such as "golden rice" were developed, and how such innovations have the potential to end world hunger, and make us all healthier. At the very end of the chapter, it was very briefly mentioned that GMOs have received opposition. I was horrified. This stuff is taught to first-year undergrads, and most of them will believe this without questioning.

Science and technology is a double-edged sword. Not only in biology. For example, understanding nuclear physics was a wonderful intellectual accomplishment, but unfortunately, it led to horrible weapons of mass destruction.

Yes, that's what I meant.

Which book was this? As I said in my earlier post, many of Pasteur's discoveries, including the abolishment of spontaneous generation, were  partly or fully plagiarized from Bechamp. The book by Marie Nonclercq explains this in detail. If you don't read French, and don't want to spend hours with a dictionary, the following English books also explain this:

Bechamp or Pasteur? A Lost Chapter in the History of Biology
by Ethel Douglas Hume

Pasteur: Plagiarist, Impostor : The Germ Theory Exploded
by R. B. Pearson

(on Amazon, you can get both of these in a single volume)

As for spontaneous generation -- actually, we know from high-energy particle physics that a particle-antiparticle pair CAN in fact be "spontaneously generated". But this is very different from what was meant by "spontaneous generation" in the 19th century.
Candice Pert's book is a good read. It forms one of the main points in the movie "What the Bleep" a movie I highly recommend. Especially watch the making of the movie as it shows you what a project it was. Some heavy hitters in there.

The Human G. P.. I got the audiobook at the library, but I tend to grab a handful of audiobooks and download them quickly and then play them later so I am not sure of the author and I could only find one audiobook on the library site: "The Genome War". Not sure if that was it. If you are in Ontario, it's probably easy to get on an interlibrary loan.

The book on Pasteur was first published in 1901 called "The Life Of Pasteur" Rene Vallery-Radot. I haven't read the entire book as it a bit of a plough through the personal stuff. It does seem to paint a rather rosy picture.

Your book suggestions on Pasteur must be where Aajonus gets his info.

Thanks for the excellent books suggestions. I will chase them down.
Cheers
Al

 

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