Author Topic: To thrust or To Throw  (Read 8636 times)

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Offline ezekiel

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To thrust or To Throw
« on: October 13, 2010, 03:45:17 am »
What was our original tactic for hunting big game such as bison?

Bows only go back so far in history. Spears were obviously the way.

So...

I feel more comfortable thrusting a bigger spear, rather than throwing a smaller spear.

Stalk and thrust feels very good to me.

Both tactics were likely used. I am guessing thrusting a spear was the original method for spearing larger game.

who knows.... Throwing heavy rocks can knock an animal out too

does this belong here? i guess its a hot topic, or off topic...

Offline ezekiel

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 03:47:11 am »
now that i think of it, both were prob done for large game, far back in history

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 04:06:09 am »
You want to spear hunt or you just wondering?
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2010, 04:30:07 am »
Try getting close enough to large game to do either.  That will teach you worlds about how ancient peoples hunted.

Offline ezekiel

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2010, 04:30:59 am »
You want to spear hunt or you just wondering?
both

Offline ezekiel

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2010, 04:32:31 am »
Try getting close enough to large game to do either.  That will teach you worlds about how ancient peoples hunted.
i would need 5-20 other men extremely fit men to test accurately

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 04:36:12 am »
both

I don't know if you've done any hunting, but it's hard as it is with a rifle or a shotgun.

Any land animal will run much much faster than you and any bird will fly away.

It is of course possible, but you'll need people with you, and even then chances of catching anything will be veeery slim.
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline infinitenexus

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 05:00:41 am »
Many researchers believe we first hunted with persistence hunting.  There's still an African tribe or two that hunts this way.  They run it to death, then when it drops they stab it.  I agree that it's going to be essentially impossible to get close enough to stab a deer with a spear.  As ForTheHunt mentioned, getting 100 years away from a deer can be tough.  A wild guess of mine would be that early man hunted in packs similar to wolves/wild dogs, go after a large herd, try to single one out and force it to run in a certain direction, that direction being towards your buddies with spears or whatnot.  I've also seen an interesting contraption for throwing spears.  Essentially it's a 3-4 foot long straight pole with a sort of "barb" at one end.  The butt of your spear will have a concave surface, so that barb will fit in there.  Hold the spear thrower at the other end, with the spear flat against it.  Make sure the spear is front-heavy, and you can actually chunk a spear pretty far and forcefully this way (i tried it with some sticks when I was a kid).

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 07:29:01 am »
In the african video on youtube it showed an entire tribe encircling large game and each tribesman throwing their spears repeatedly at the large game.  You obviously cannot kill a hippo with one spear whether thrown or thrust at it, it needs dozens of men and spears to do it.
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Offline raw

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2010, 08:11:48 am »
it would be easy to hunt a bison throughing spears repeatedly (think about living in a paleo village, where all those strong men run after the bison to kill it. like other tribes, if paleo people can make their own spears using those trees and assets from their land, that will bring even more satisfaction.  :)
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Offline Sitting Coyote

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 09:00:56 am »
Even bison will run away from you, and they'll outrun anyone both in terms of speed and distance.

Persistence hunting works in very particular topography and climate, and no where else.  You need it to be very hot, or I suppose very cold.  You need to be hunting on a vast, open landscape where it's easy to track your prey and where it can't hide.  Persistence hunting wouldn't work in most temperate regions except in the winter, and even then you need an open area where the animal can't just hide.  Persistence hunting would be impossible in a forest, regardless of the temperature.  Trust me, I've tried it.

What I was getting at with my first post is that hunting with spears is an art that requires the hunter to learn stealth and master ambush.  I've gotten within grabbing distance of deer, and that's the distance you need for spear hunting, whether throwing or thrusting. 

Throwing spears is challenging, because it's a big motion and deer jump at everything, so you're almost guaranteed to miss unless you catch it completely by surprise and it doesn't see you throw the spear.  You also need space to throw, and the places that will hide you enough so that you can get close usually don't afford the space needed for a smooth throw.  Unless you climb a tree.  Many First Nation tribes carried spears, but I think those were more weapons to use against opposing tribesmen than hunting tools.

Thrusting, in my view, is easier because you can position yourself where a relatively small motion will put the spear tip in the animal's side.  With a thrusting spear the idea is to impale the animal, tackle it and pin it to the ground until it dies.  I suppose on something larger you might have to jump back and let it run off and die, then track it down once it's expired.  Or spear it and back off, and pray it doesn't attack you as even herbivores will attack when wounded at close range. 

I have an acquaintance who killed a fawn deer with a thrusting spear maybe six years ago.  It turned on him and kicked him in the chest with one of its front hoofs.  It hurt so bad he thought it had broken ribs, and he felt his heart beat irregularly for a few minutes before it regained its normal, consistent rhythm.  It turned out that his ribs were just severely bruised, though.  He says it was a harrowing experience, and he doesn't plan on doing it again.  And that was just a fawn.  Imagine going after an adult!  Or a bison!

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 09:18:55 am »
Trap first.
Spear later.
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Offline ezekiel

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 09:35:42 am »
Trap first.
Spear later.
:) I like this one. Trap then kill, or run it off a cliff

Offline raw-al

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 12:31:02 am »
I heard that Native Americans would smear their bodies/faces with acorns and the like to lure deer closer and they practiced patience as they knew where the animals went to eat.

This is what they and their ancestors did so it wasn't magic to them.
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Offline ezekiel

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 03:38:49 am »
thrusting feels better, made spear today in the woods, thrusting with light end first felt the best out of all techniques i tried,

this is prob why many native peoples developed that device aborigenies also used for throwing, to get smaller faster game

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Offline miles

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 08:21:07 am »
Even bison will run away from you, and they'll outrun anyone both in terms of speed and distance.

In short distance, high speed yes, and very very long distance at very very slow speed yes, but not short<x<medium distance at medium<x<fast speed.

Persistence hunting would be impossible in a forest

I don't know who it was, but someone commented on one of those youtube videos that they knew someone who did it in CA, forest.
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Offline ezekiel

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Re: To thrust or To Throw
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 02:59:15 pm »

 

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