Re: Dandruff

[raw]

If you have access to an Indian grocery store get some Fenugreek leaves, soak them in water and rub the water in your hair.
Whatever you do avoid shampoos. I blame the use of Head n Sholders shampoo for my hair loss. A friend of my mother's suggested it for dandruff.

i also heard about fenugreek leaves which are bitter testing and  good for hair. also indian lentils are good after soaking them overnight. i see that good RPD can reduce the dandruff problem dramatically. Well, if you every have this dandruff, just massage a raw lemon and than wash the head with clean water or use the raw eggs and wheatgrass juice for more dramatic result.

[raw-al]

I have used all your suggestions except the wheatgrass with good results.

[raw]

Raw-al, why not the wheat grass? I grow this all the time for my son, who takes shower with the grass juice. Also it prevent my hair of being gray. Both of my parents get gray hair in their early thirties. Wheat grass is a great detergent. You can use them as tooth paste too. I use my common sense to use wheat grass. Personally I don't know anyone who is doing that.

[raw-al]

raw,
Sorry for my poor English skills.  I meant that I had not yet had the opportunity to try wheat-grass.

However thanks for the tips. I was not aware of that. What are the seeds called and where do you get them?

Another cause of gray hair is salt consumption.

[raw]

My mom is a salt addict and i get from her the same addiction. the day i start eating raw meat, it reduces% salt intake and after couple of months I'm completely 100% rawist  and my salt intake is 0%.

Wheat berries you can buy from whole food market. simply soak the seeds over night and sprout them and put them on the ground or put them in a container (with soil) inside your home. water regularly and it will take 6 to 8 days to grow.

[PaleoPhil]

Raw-al, why not the wheat grass? I grow this all the time for my son, who takes shower with the grass juice. Also it prevent my hair of being gray. Both of my parents get gray hair in their early thirties. Wheat grass is a great detergent. You can use them as tooth paste too. I use my common sense to use wheat grass. Personally I don't know anyone who is doing that.

I wouldn't say it's common sense to use wheat grass as toothpaste, as wheatgrass is "the cotyledons of the common wheat plant," according to Wikipedia, which means it's non-Paleo and promotion of oral use, even toothpaste, should probably be discussed in the hot topics thread.

Plus, Dr. Cordain warns that wheatgrass contains wheat germ agglutinin (WGA), a harmful lectin antinutrient and antigen that some people (like me, for instance) are sensitive to:

from: chad
sent: wednesday, july 18, 2007 12:56 pm
to: info@thepaleodiet.com
subject: re: dietary cure for acne - wheatgrass juices, flax seeds, psyllium ok???

hi doctor my girlfriend and i have started your diet and are thrilled after a nightmarish 6-month immersion in vegetarianism that only exacerbated my acne symptoms. however, there were a few items i was introduced to in this time – namely organic, high-end kamut and barley grass powdered juice blends – that i supplement with regularly for their nutrition content, enzymes and alkalizing properties. since they are grasses, however, does this make them no-no’s in accordance to your plan? i’m very confused… also, in your books and guide, you make no mention whatsoever about flax seeds, which are incredibly high in omega 3’s. i eat a few tablespoons of organic, cold-pressed milled flaxseeds every day for this benefit and their fiber, but are these to be lumped in with all the other nuts and seeds that are high in omega 6’s? i’m not sure why you didn’t discuss them even though you praise the omega 3 content of flaxseed oils… lastly, since i’ve had to cut out most of the fiber drinks i take b/c they are from cereal grains and fibers, could you propose a good alternative??? ....

from: wiley long
sent: thursday, july 19, 2007 9:58 pm
to: chad collins
subject: re: dietary cure for acne - wheatgrass juices, flax seeds, psyllium ok???

hi chad, this was dr. cordain’s reply. we may run this question in a future newsletter as well.

hi, the blades of wheat grass contain wga, an antinutrient that may potentially have adverse health effects. fresh fruits and vegetables would be better choices for their nutrient content and net alkalizing effects. flaxseeds certainly can be included in a paleo diet and represent a good source of alpha linolenic acid (18:3n3), however remember that virtually all of the beneficial health effects of omega 3 fatty acids come from the long chan versions (epa or 20:5n3, dha or 22:6n3 ) of these fatty acids. the conversion of 18:3n3 to 20:5n3 and 22:6n3 is extremely inefficient in the liver & less than 2-4% of 18:3n3 is converted to the more healthful longer n-3 fatty acids. thus, fish or fish oil is important to include in your diet. psyllium powder is a good supplement to help bowel regularity and lower blood cholesterol concentrations. however try to use it every second or third day or as needed because it's high fiber content can increase bile acid elimination which also depletes the body's vitamin d pool. it also binds most divalent minerals (iron, zinc, magnesium, calcium etc) and should therefore be consumed separate from meals. cordially, loren cordain, ph.d.

from: chad sent: friday, july 20, 2007 3:46 pm
to: wiley long subject:
re: dietary cure for acne - wheatgrass juices, flax seeds, psyllium ok???

this is great wiley, and a big help! i’ll certainly cut back on wheatgrass juice powders, as i usually consume about 3 tablespoons of premium supplements per day! hopefully, the algaes (spirulina, chlorella) are ok to consume though.

Subject:   the email in question from Dr Loren Cordain
re: wheatgrass & acne...
Username:   ccollins32
Date:   10/3/2007 2:45:13 PM  

yes, i believe those would be a much better choice. many people drink wheat grass juice, feel sick, and think it is the “detox” that is causing that, but it may in fact be the lectins. best regards, wiley long, m.s. nutrition business director paleo diet enterprises, llc www.thepaleodiet.com

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1013175

Elevated levels of serum antibodies to the lectin wheat germ agglutinin in celiac children lend support to the gluten-lectin theory of celiac disease, http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1399-3038.1995.tb00267.x/abstract

Using wheatgrass juice as a toothpaste wouldn't result in ingesting much, but there are less toxic alternatives.

[yon yonson]

uh, phil, wheat is a plant like any other. the issue begins when consuming large amounts of it's grains. not the actual plant. i can't see how this isn't technically 'paleo'. same as eating any other young plant. not endorsing it, but just saying...

[PaleoPhil]

Um, since when is wheat considered Paleo? If any food is not Paleo it's wheat. If wheat is Paleo then every plant in nature is. This is not something I figured would ever need explanation on a Paleo forum. I think it's the first defense, albeit a mild one, of wheat I've ever seen on a Paleo forum by someone who wasn't anti-Paleo.

I even have a friend who was another example of what ccollins32 reported above. She bought into the bogus hype that some guru pushed about wheatgrass juice and drank it on repeated occasions even though it made her vomit each time. She was told that this was "detox," yet the promised health benefits never came and the vomiting continued. It's a story I've heard regarding other non-Paleo "miracle foods" that gurus push, such as what apparently happened with Natural Hygiene people pushing raw dairy on Tyler and telling him to keep taking it despite negative symptoms and blaming the symptoms on "detox" and the like, if I remember correctly. I suggested to my friend that she try a Paleo diet instead and her health improved rapidly and dramatically without any "detox". She suffered because of the nonsense about wheatgrass juice, so I have little tolerance for it. But you don't have to believe me, see Dr. Cordain's report above. He's more respected than me and generally highly respected in Paleo circles except re: saturated fat.

[yon yonson]

wait, are you saying wheat was never around in paleo times? i don't get your logic.

If wheat is Paleo then every plant in nature is.

yeah... was that every in question? of course every wild plant in nature is paleo


am i alone in this? im sorry phil but im really not understanding your logic

[PaleoPhil]

No problem, Yon, I don't recall ever encountering anyone claiming that wheat was Paleo before, so please forgive my astonishment. What does Paleo mean to you?

It may help if I explain that wheat for me is the worst of all foods and increasingly made my life a living hell before a physician helped me discover that I was intolerant of it and it's what led me to discover the Paleo diet, which was touted as being wheat-free and as providing an explanation for why millions of people are highly sensitive to wheat. After I experienced miraculous benefits by eliminating wheat and some other foods from my diet, I dedicated the rest of my life in part to helping those I care about benefit from what I learned, with eliminating wheat being priority #1. So far over a dozen people have benefited greatly by eliminating or greatly reducing wheat and other non-Paleo foods from their diets. So you will never convince me or any of them that wheat is truly Paleo or good food or anything remotely like that. We are living proof to the contrary.

Dr. Cordain and Dr. Kurt Harris and Dr. William Davis have written extensively on the dangers of wheat and collected an enormous amount of info on it. Davis regards it as public enemy #1 and Harris regards it as public enemy #3. Cordain and Harris have both written on why it is not truly "Paleo." They have probably said it much better than I could and there's no sense in reinventing the wheel, so I refer you to their writings.

Plus, according to the official definition of raw Paleo of this forum, NO grain at any stage of maturation is considered Paleo, not just wheat:

"What exactly is a Raw, Palaeolithic Diet? ...a raw, palaeolithic diet is really more defined by what it doesn’t allow than what it permits. So, an RPD(Raw Palaeolithic Diet) forbids the consumption of Neolithic foods such as legumes,dairy or grains, whether raw or cooked. It also forbids the consumption of all cooked or processed foods." http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/what-exactly-is-a-raw-palaeolithic-diet/

[KD]

yeah, wheatgrass is a grass, Same with amaranth and other plants that have been around for ages but are more commonly thought of today as purely seed/grain producing plants.  like amaranth, parts of the actual plant can be harvested instead of its grains. Altogether not different than eating tender leaves or sprouting seeds, other then pretty much requiring a juicer to get much out of it. Seems to be the same issue I was expressing in the 'noodle' thread, foods being label 'not-paleo' because they arn't part of an accepted ZC or omnivorous diet that is commonly practiced here.

in the context of this dandruff thread

I'm guessing by the same logic if someone said they used baking soda or some other thing it would be less offensive than wheatgrass.

[PaleoPhil]

yeah, wheatgrass is a grass,

Of course--for wheat is a grass and wheatgrass is just a young stage of wheat: "Wheat (Triticum spp.) is a grass, originally from the Fertile Crescent region of the Near East...." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheat). Did you not know that? It's a special kind of grass called a cereal.

Seems to be the same issue I was expressing in the 'noodle' thread, foods being label 'not-paleo' because they arn't part of an accepted ZC or omnivorous diet that is commonly practiced here. ...

It's much more than that. Wheatgrass is a scam, in my view. As Dr. Harris would argue, it wasn't just not a staple of the Paleolithic, it's not part of our "metabolic milieu."

[yon yonson]

phil i totally agree that wheat grain is bad. but i don't see why young wheatgrass is bad. that was my point. i wasn't defending grains at all

[PaleoPhil]

Wheatgrass is less bad than wheat, but it's still bad for the reasons Cordain and ccollins32 stated above and probably others. Did you read Cordain's response? Plus, as I mentioned, I've witnessed the ill effects of wheatgrass juice on a friend.

Plus, most of the claims on the Internet re: wheatgrass juice have been shown to be bogus and unsubstantiated:

http://healthfraudoz.blogspot.com/2005/04/wheatgrass-why-grass.html
http://www.ncahf.org/articles/s-z/wheatgrass.html
http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/04/wheatgrass_madn.html

[KD]

what are you aruging here? if you are agreeing that it is a tender grass, then it can compliment a paleo diet quite well, certainly more so to any vitamin supplement, mineral, chemical or any other thing that isn't meat and whatever 'accepted' plants.

as for your friend, I don't think that represents a scam very well. I know lots of people that swear by wheatgrass, know alot of people that do have poor responses to all kind of vegetable juices and I do consider the effects to be detox. Its a perfectly valid viewpoint.

since cows eat grass and not humans, I can see by that logic to say that regularly eating grass is not paleo as a likely large part of our natural diet, but to say that wheatgrass -and by default all grasses or plants that begin from seeds - is itself  not paleo...and also not even possibility productive as a remedy...thats only from some artificial concept of what a RPD diet is.

[yon yonson]

oh ok. i haven't read those yet. i'll get around to it. thanks for the explanation phil

[Iguana]

 

It may help if I explain that wheat for me is the worst of all foods and increasingly made my life a living hell before a physician helped me discover that I was intolerant of it and it's what led me to discover the Paleo diet, which was touted as being wheat-free and as providing an explanation for why millions of people are highly sensitive to wheat. After I experienced miraculous benefits by eliminating wheat and some other foods from my diet, I dedicated the rest of my life in part to helping those I care about benefit from what I learned, with eliminating wheat being priority #1. So far over a dozen people have benefited greatly by eliminating or greatly reducing wheat and other non-Paleo foods from their diets. So you will never convince me or any of them that wheat is truly Paleo or good food or anything remotely like that. We are living proof to the contrary.

Dr. Cordain and Dr. Kurt Harris and Dr. William Davis have written extensively on the dangers of wheat and collected an enormous amount of info on it. Davis regards it as public enemy #1 and Harris regards it as public enemy #3. Cordain and Harris have both written on why it is not truly "Paleo." They have probably said it much better than I could and there's no sense in reinventing the wheel, so I refer you to their writings.

Plus, according to the official definition of raw Paleo of this forum, NO grain at any stage of maturation is considered Paleo, not just wheat:

"What exactly is a Raw, Palaeolithic Diet? ...a raw, palaeolithic diet is really more defined by what it doesn’t allow than what it permits. So, an RPD(Raw Palaeolithic Diet) forbids the consumption of Neolithic foods such as legumes,dairy or grains, whether raw or cooked. It also forbids the consumption of all cooked or processed foods." http://www.rawpaleodiet.com/what-exactly-is-a-raw-palaeolithic-diet/

Yes, absolutely. Wheat is the worst of all grain:  it has been intensely artificially selected from the wild grass aegilops http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegilops, subject to several mutation which made it very different from it’s wild parent. The first to realize the toxicity of wheat was GCB in the 60’s, as a result of his experimentations on mice and other animals, himself, family and friends. Seignalet confirmed his finding as well.

[Iguana]

Trigger Foods and Opioids

Pieces of milk and wheat proteins (peptides) can act like the body's own narcotics, the endorphins, and were described by Zioudro, Streaty and Klee as "exorphins" in 1979. Other food proteins, such as gluten, results in the production of substances having opiate- (narcotic) like activity. These substances have been termed "exorphins." Hydrolyzed wheat gluten, for example, was found to prolong intestinal transit time and this effect was reversed by concomitant administration of naloxone, a narcotic-blocking drug. Digests of milk proteins also are opioid peptides. The brain effects of exorphins may contribute to the mental disturbances and appetite disorders which routinely accompany food-related illness. The possibility that exorphins are addictive in some people is a fascinating lead which needs further exploration.

Milk and wheat proteins have been studied and shown to yield active peptides. These substances may be numerous in the digestive tract after a meal and several effects could occur in sequence. The absorption of larger peptides may be irregular, with variation in symptom production after meals, making the interpretation of milk and wheat disease difficult. Other foods are likely to yield similar peptides.

Exorphins: opioid substances in food

Prompted by a possible link between diet and mental illness, several researchers in the late 1970s began investigating the occurrence of drug-like substances in some common foodstuffs.

Dohan (1966, 1984) and Dohan et al. (1973, 1983) found that symptoms of schizophrenia were relieved somewhat when patients were fed a diet free of cereals and milk. He also found that people with coeliac disease -- those who are unable to eat wheat gluten because of higher than normal permeability of the gut -- were statistically likely to suffer also from schizophrenia. Research in some Pacific communities showed that schizophrenia became prevalent in these populations only after they became 'partially westernised and consumed wheat, barley beer, and rice' (Dohan 1984).

Groups led by Zioudrou (1979) and Brantl (1979) found opioid activity in wheat, maize and barley (exorphins), and bovine and human milk (casomorphin), as well as stimulatory activity in these proteins, and in oats, rye and soy. Cereal exorphin is much stronger than bovine casomorphin, which in turn is stronger than human casomorphin. Mycroft et al. (1982, 1987) found an analogue of MIF-1, a naturally occurring dopaminergic peptide, in wheat and milk. It occurs in no other exogenous protein. (In subsequent sections we use the term exorphin to cover exorphins, casomorphin, and the MIF-1 analogue. Though opioid and dopaminergic substances work in different ways, they are both 'rewarding', and thus more or less equivalent for our purposes.)

Since then, researchers have measured the potency of exorphins, showing them to be comparable to morphine and enkephalin (Heubner et al. 1984), determined their amino acid sequences (Fukudome &Yoshikawa 1992), and shown that they are absorbed from the intestine (Svedburg et al.1985) and can produce effects such as analgesia and reduction of anxiety which are usually associated with poppy-derived opioids (Greksch et al.1981, Panksepp et al.1984). Mycroft et al. estimated that 150 mg of the MIF-1 analogue could be produced by normal daily intake of cereals and milk, noting that such quantities are orally active, and half this amount 'has induced mood alterations in clinically depressed subjects' (Mycroft et al. 1982:895). (For detailed reviews see Gardner 1985 and Paroli 1988.)

(Reading the whole article is a must.)

See also Agrarian diet and diseases of affluence – Do evolutionary novel dietary lectins cause leptin resistance?

[TylerDurden]

This topics has been moved to the hot topics forum as wheatgrass is non-palaeo.




Unsurprisingly, given my own experience, I quite agree with PP. I did not do well on wheatgrass. Not only did I find the taste truly appalling but I felt somewhat worse, afterwards. Nothing major but it was clear that I was not benefitting from the stuff given symptoms. Also, from what I read, wheatgrass has a pretty bad rep among those who've tried it.

Re non-palaeo foods mention:- It wasn't Natural Hygiene, but Aajonus and various Primal Dieters who insisted that my issues with raw dairy were solely due to detox. I had  6 months of pure hell as a result of blindly trusting in these peoples' false assurances re pretending that allergies to raw dairy were impossible etc.. If I had had at least some warning re raw dairy, I would have gotten healthier much quicker. I do believe in genuine detox, but I am also aware, given past experience, that many people who claim to be detoxing, especially those reporting frequent violent detoxes after eating certain specific foods, are usually deluding themselves and are in some way allergic or whatever.


I am sure that some people, most of whom are already pretty healthy, may do seemingly fine on raw dairy or wheatgrass or similiar non-palaeo or non-raw foods; but most who end up doing rawpalaeodiets usually have severely compromised immune-systems etc. as a result of decades on SAD diets, and therefore some of those weakened people will have extra allergies/sensitivities to certain foods that they may not have had in a big way before they became ill. So, it makes sense to provide a warning before recommending such foods.

[ForTheHunt]

This topics has been moved to the hot topics forum as wheatgrass is non-palaeo.




Unsurprisingly, given my own experience, I quite agree with PP. I did not do well on wheatgrass. Not only did I find the taste truly appalling but I felt somewhat worse, afterwards. Nothing major but it was clear that I was not benefitting from the stuff given symptoms. Also, from what I read, wheatgrass has a pretty bad rep among those who've tried it.

Re non-palaeo foods mention:- It wasn't Natural Hygiene, but Aajonus and various Primal Dieters who insisted that my issues with raw dairy were solely due to detox. I had  6 months of pure hell as a result of blindly trusting in these peoples' false assurances re pretending that allergies to raw dairy were impossible etc.. If I had had at least some warning re raw dairy, I would have gotten healthier much quicker. I do believe in genuine detox, but I am also aware, given past experience, that many people who claim to be detoxing, especially those reporting frequent violent detoxes after eating certain specific foods, are usually deluding themselves and are in some way allergic or whatever.


I am sure that some people, most of whom are already pretty healthy, may do seemingly fine on raw dairy or wheatgrass or similiar non-palaeo or non-raw foods; but most who end up doing rawpalaeodiets usually have severely compromised immune-systems etc. as a result of decades on SAD diets, and therefore some of those weakened people will have extra allergies/sensitivities to certain foods that they may not have had in a big way before they became ill. So, it makes sense to provide a warning before recommending such foods.

Home cultivated WG has a lot of mold on it and Mycotoxins. I got sick every time I ate some.

This august I picked some very tall wild growing grass and juiced it. Felt pleasant wellbeing every time I drunk it.

[raw]

Home cultivated WG has a lot of mold on it and Mycotoxins. I got sick every time I ate some.
This august I picked some very tall wild growing grass and juiced it. Felt pleasant wellbeing every time I drunk it.

That's  very true. Personally I never like home grown wheat grass juice and wild grass is much better than all. But I don't consume any green juice for the past one yr now and I'm on strictly on RPD. I use wheat grass to clean the city water and put my child to bath. I'm sure I can use other plants to do that too.

[raw-al]

Home cultivated WG has a lot of mold on it and Mycotoxins. I got sick every time I ate some.

This august I picked some very tall wild growing grass and juiced it. Felt pleasant wellbeing every time I drunk it.

Your post reminded me that LSD (Lysergic acid diethylamide) was originally formulated or synthesized from ergot that typically grows on rye. Not sure if it related to, or can have a form of it derived from wheat.

Some people have suggested that messing with nature via breeding new strains was the trigger for some of the worst reactions to these as foods. Now that I avoid grains, (almost all the time), I take it further and classify grains to be "starvation foods".