Author Topic: Study: Low carb diets and death risk  (Read 27570 times)

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Offline miles

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2010, 06:31:12 pm »
This thing about humans losing the gene(or it become deactivated), that prevents gout from fructose but maintaining the one for proteins.. Do you think humans could be better adapted to tubers/fruits/nuts than sugar/honey? As the roots/tubers are starch->glucose, and the sugar/honey are fructose & glucose ~50:50.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2010, 06:52:51 pm »
Given that the human brain decreased in size by 8 percent after switching to starchy foods in the Neolithic era, one can safely state that humans are not well adapted to starchy foods.
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Offline miles

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2010, 09:38:15 pm »
But they were eating roots/tubers before then, alongside meat. The decrease in brain size would be because they stopped eating as much meat, wouldn't it?
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2010, 10:38:49 pm »
But they were eating roots/tubers before then, alongside meat. The decrease in brain size would be because they stopped eating as much meat, wouldn't it?
Perhaps, except for the fact that they ate , at best, only tiny amounts of tubers and other starchy foods in the Palaeolithic, and then ate far greater amounts thereof in the Neolithic era.
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Offline Hanna

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2010, 03:57:59 am »
This thing about humans losing the gene(or it become deactivated), that prevents gout from fructose but maintaining the one for proteins..

Never heard about these genes. Could you (or someone else) tell more about this or give me a link or keywords to google for?

Offline Biber

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2010, 03:52:45 pm »
And a (in Germany once prominent) raw food dieter told me on the telephone that he got diabetes, which he attributed to the loads of sweet tropical fruit he had eaten. I could hardly believe it - until I read about the dangers of fructose.

Hi Hanna,

really? This is for me also hard to believe  :o
What do you mean with "once prominent"? Is he still on a raw food diet? Or did he then switch to a lowcarb based raw food ?
Or did he change to cooked food because of his diabetes, which he is suffering now?

Biber

Offline Hanna

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2010, 06:36:54 pm »
I cannot say more about his identity; I´m afraid he would not agree to that. He probably has changed his diet, but I don´t know in which way exactly.

Offline KD

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2010, 10:44:20 pm »
Hi Hanna,

really? This is for me also hard to believe  :o
What do you mean with "once prominent"? Is he still on a raw food diet? Or did he then switch to a lowcarb based raw food ?
Or did he change to cooked food because of his diabetes, which he is suffering now?

Biber

Virtually all of the "long lived" high-fruit dieters have succumb to cancer or degenerative diseases. Notably Morris Krok, TC Fry, Johnny Lovewisdom, and then Herbert M. Shelton (the founder of the the modern Hygiene movement) to neurological degenerative disease. This also includes some high veg raw vegans such as Viktoras Kulvinskas (survival into the 21st Century)'s wife but seems less common generally when examining these equally deficient vegans' symptomology. People defensively point out that the individuals lived longer than they would have w/o and that their lifespans were not together different than average, but the specifc type of ailments are intrinsically linked to the excesses of those diets. While its easy to equally pin these on deficiencies in b-12 and other meat sourced nutrients or to environmental or lifestyle/stress, quite a few people even in the non-meat world advocate against regular consumption of modern fruits in their role in degenerative and metabolic disease. To me these issues are not solved simply by adding nutrition from animal products, but drastic reassessment to the shifts in nature and in human requirements per modern ills. Even if it could be definitively proved that ancient humans consumed large quantities of fruits, this does not by default mean that (particularity modern) fruits might feed diseases and imbalances in the body.

Offline Hanna

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #33 on: November 22, 2010, 07:19:27 pm »
Hanna, how do you eat for now? How do you feel?


Hi Inger  :),

My diet has not changed in principle (raw omnivore without milk products, "low carb" compared with SWD or average instincto). I eat more animal food on average than I ever did, because I feel much better, warmer, fitter etc. with substantial amounts of animal food. I can eat at least 100g carbs per day (mainly from fruit) without problems, but 200g of carbs per day on average is certainly too much for me to stay healthy.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2010, 10:44:26 pm »
I am now on the edge of Zc and am not sure which direction to go. I was pre diabetic 11 months ago when I began this diet, I had glandular burnout and every time I ate anything I would get a flaring pain in my pancreas and my blood sugars would spike to over 130 and remain over 100 unless I fasted for a full day, now after 10 months on Zc I no longer have organ pain or high sugars, my sugar wont go over 95 and stays in the 70s and 80s, I am still not sure as to when or how I should try to ease into a more carb rich diet, I was thinking that AV said it takes two years before the glands go through a complete cellular rejuvenation so I don't want to do anything that will reverse the progress I have made, eventhough I have been craving more carbs. I originally started this diet more according to the primal way and was eatting berries and drinking raw milk, avocados , tomatoes and such, I was getting real improvements in health but my sugars would still spike after the carb rich foods like berries, even a small amount would give me a spike.
I ate a half a banana about 4 months ago and I actually had a hypoglycemic reaction were my sugar dropped into the low 60s and I got a spell of low energy so I have been reluctant to try any fruit. My main reason for wanting to try more carbs is weight gain I would like to put on another 10 pounds , but after the thirty pounds I gained early into the diet I leveled off at 170.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2010, 12:35:45 am by sabertooth »
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Offline LCHF Acolyte

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2011, 02:35:57 am »
DIET AND STOMACH CANCER RISK IN WARSAW, POLAND

AN INTERESTING INTERCHANGE. FYI some of the links not included here pointed (with photographs) to the possibility of stomach cancer being caused by LOW STOMACH MUCOSA in what is essentially no-carb diets - but what about Stefansson and the Inuit who were no-carb / no-cancer? and the total lack of cancer among others eating traditional diets?

ANYWAY, to proceed:

http://forum.lowcarber.org/sho...

"I learned over on Peter's Blog that Optimal Dieters have been dying of gastrointestinal cancers at a disturbing rate. Recently Adam Jany, president of the OSBO (the Polish Optimal Dieters’ association), died of stomach cancer at 64 after 17 years on the Optimal Diet. Earlier Karol Braniek, another leader of the OSBO, died at 68 from duodenal cancer. "A Polish former Optimal Dieter who has now switched to something closer to the Perfect Health Diet noted that gastrointestinal cancers seem to be common among Optimal Dieters: "The impression we get is that there’s rather high occurrence of gut cancer, including stomach, duodenum, colon … "
 
RESPONSE
 
http://forum.lowcarber.org/arc...

DIET AND STOMACH CANCER RISK IN WARSAW, POLAND

 
Nutr Cancer. 2004;48(2):149-59.

Lissowska J, Gail MH, Pee D, Groves FD, Sobin LH, Nasierowska-Guttmejer A, Sygnowska E, Zatonski W, Blot WJ, Chow WH.Division of Cancer Epidemiology and Prevention, Cancer Center and M. Sklodowska-Curie Institute of Oncology, Warsaw, Poland. lissowsj~coi.waw.pl

Abstract - Some of the world's highest rates of stomach cancer are found in Poland. Reasons for the increased incidence are not known, but high intake of sausages and other preserved foods and low intake of fresh fruits and vegetables may be involved.

A case-control study comprising residents newly diagnosed with stomach cancer during 1994-96 and controls randomly selected from the general population was conducted in Warsaw, Poland. Standardized interviews were conducted to ascertain usual consumption of 118 common foods and beverages and other exposures. Using data from direct interviews with 274 cases and 463 controls, odds ratios of stomach cancer were calculated as estimates of risks associated with dietary factors, adjusting for age, sex, education, smoking, and caloric intake. Risk of stomach cancer was inversely related to intake of total fruits and dark green-yellow vegetables and to indices of vitamins C and E and alpha- and beta-carotenes.
 
However, RISK WAS NOT SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED AMONG THOSE WITH HIGH INTAKE OF PICKLED/SALTED VEGETABLES AND SAUSAGES. RISKS WERE POSITIVELY ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED INTAKE OF BREADS/CEREALS/RICE/PASTA AND OTHER REFINED GRAINS, AS WELL AS A HIGH CARBOHYDRATE INDEX.
 
Our findings add to the evidence of a protective effect of fruits and certain vegetables on stomach cancer risk, but do not indicate that high intake of sausage and other preserved foods typical in the Polish diet has contributed to the country's elevated stomach cancer incidence.
 
OUR DATA ALSO SUGGEST THAT HIGH CARBOHYDRATE CONSUMPTION MAY INFLUENCE RISK, but further confirmation is needed.

Offline Hanna

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2011, 02:37:43 pm »
Thank you. My conclusion so far is that statistics of this type are confusing and contradictory. Better to rely on one´s own experience and the anecdotal experience ot other raw food dieters... :)

Offline zbr5

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2011, 02:44:26 pm »
Optimal diet is  eating mainly fried meat and dairy.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2011, 02:51:11 pm »
I tried cooked optimal diet with supermarket pork for 1 month and I felt terrible.
Vs the 3 months of raw paleo diet I was on previously.
So I went back to raw paleo diet... whew... safe.
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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #39 on: May 27, 2011, 03:30:27 pm »
I tried cooked optimal diet with supermarket pork for 1 month and I felt terrible.
Vs the 3 months of raw paleo diet I was on previously.
So I went back to raw paleo diet... whew... safe.

There are four severe pitfalls in Kwasniewskis "optimal diet":

1. Everything is cooked
2. Massive amounts of dairy
3. Grain-fed meats
4. Cooked starches

I knew some people here in Germany following the "optimal diet". They all look like death.

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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #40 on: May 27, 2011, 03:35:24 pm »
Virtually all of the "long lived" high-fruit dieters have succumb to cancer or degenerative diseases. Notably Morris Krok, TC Fry, Johnny Lovewisdom, and then Herbert M. Shelton (the founder of the the modern Hygiene movement) to neurological degenerative disease.

I guess that Douglas Graham can be added to this list in a few years.

This also includes some high veg raw vegans such as Viktoras Kulvinskas (survival into the 21st Century)'s wife but seems less common generally when examining these equally deficient vegans' symptomology.

What happens to Kulvinskas wife?

Löwenherz

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2011, 03:20:31 am »
I guess that Douglas Graham can be added to this list in a few years.




That's going to be an ugly death. I think it will be the end of most 8/1/1 experiments, as people see what it did to Graham.  I hope it's the end, anyway...for the sake of poor unsuspecting raw diet experimenters.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Study: Low carb diets and death risk
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2011, 03:23:08 am »
I believe in the case of Burger's wife, a former French member of RPF stated that she had gotten cancer due to various psychosomatic reasons, as opposed to diet as such.




I heard she had been eating lots of cookies and other baked goods in the time when she was developing cancer.

I seriously doubt grass-fed raw meat is going to be much of a cause of cancer.  Maybe EXTREME over-consumption could produce something...but I also think that the quality of the grass, in terms of mineral and beta-carotene content, is going to be a big factor.  Very high-quality fresh grass is very different from very low-quality. That's true for pretty much any plant.

 

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