Author Topic: A lil' update.  (Read 19263 times)

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Offline ForTheHunt

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A lil' update.
« on: December 13, 2010, 09:53:24 am »
I'm not sold on RPD anymore. Tried it now for a year or so.

What I think is mostly missing is cooked starch. I've been struggling so hard to gain any weight on RPD. Just couldn't gain any muscle for the life of me. And I was losing muscle slowly. To me that is a serious sign that somethings wrong.

Now for the past 3 weeks I've added cooked starches into my diet and I've gained 2 pounds per week of muscle. And in fact, the eczema on my neck, which I got AFTER I started RPD is clearing up fast. It's about 80% cleared up after I went back on a heavy carb diet.

Other things which were affecting me on RPD are gone. Such as constipation, low energy, etc.

Just look at Jack Lalanne. The guy is 96, still working out, still publishing books, still has a full head of hair and his natural haircolor.

He eats a mix of raw fruits/veg cooked whole grains and starches + cooked meat. Doesn't touch milk though 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qKgIHXWTTo

love this guy.
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Offline actup

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2010, 10:01:26 am »
I have always disagreed with zero carb, I tried it for a couple days and my brain did not like that.
How do you cook your starches? Why not sprout?
Are you going to start cooking your meat?

Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2010, 10:06:41 am »
I have always disagreed with zero carb, I tried it for a couple days and my brain did not like that.
How do you cook your starches? Why not sprout?
Are you going to start cooking your meat?

I tried sprouting. In fact I sprouted hardcore at one point. And that was at the point in my life where I felt worst. Had absolutely no energy.

As far as cooking my meat, I haven't really made up my mind on that. I crave cooked meat very often I also crave raw meat often. I'm going play with it a bit more and see which gives me more energy and fits better with the foods I'm eating.
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline King Salmon

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2010, 10:18:21 am »
wow dude.I think RPD is still experimental at this stage for most people anyway.The groups/societies that did well on it during their time a long time ago,didn't think of themselves as RPD at that time.They just ate what they thought was best, or could find, or adapted to.
I guess you're discovering that for yourself as well.good luck and keep us posted.

Btw,now get ready for the posts that will ask you if you ate enough fats to gain weight ;)
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Offline ForTheHunt

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2010, 10:25:16 am »
wow dude.I think RPD is still experimental at this stage for most people anyway.The groups/societies that did well on it during their time a long time ago,didn't think of themselves as RPD at that time.They just ate what they thought was best, or could find, or adapted to.
I guess you're discovering that for yourself as well.good luck and keep us posted.

Btw,now get ready for the posts that will ask you if you ate enough fats to gain weight ;)

Yeah, I did a high fat period for months. I got fatter, didn't gain muscle and most importantly I felt really gross. That's also what sparked my neck eczema. Trust me - I am no scrub when it comes to RPD. I make daily experiments with food ratio, macro nutrient ratios, chew times, eating schedules, intermittent fasting etc. I don't stop until I've tried every aspect of something.
Take everyones advice with a grain of salt. Try things out for your self and then make up your mind.

Offline miles

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2010, 10:53:29 am »
Hey FTH, I hope you will keep us informed of your progress. What cooked starches are you eating now?

Please don't skimp on the information just because you're not fully RPD anymore, I'd really like to hear about what you're doing and the effects. You can always keep it in the hot-topics forum.
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Offline yuli

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2010, 11:21:03 am »
If you feel the need for starch to gain muscle then nothing wrong with it, ( potatos may not be paleo but they are an ancient food, I believe more ancient then grains and we're better evolved to eat it ) especially if you have tried honest raw paleo, which you have.
There are also many theories saying why starches can be very beneficial, and even better then glucose and of course fructose. I eat some potatoes and yams but keep it minimal, with inclusion of some fermented cabbage, fresh herbs and root salads my need for cooked starch goes to a minimal.

I am also in a similar state, that I crave both cooked and raw meat when hungry, so I just eat both at the moment, but try to concentrate on the raw part to keep it real  8) and more paleo.

But if you gonna eat starches stick with yams and potato, I'd stay away from any grains, and if I do have to eat grains, I go with buckwheat (I handle that the best), definitely stay away from cooked legumes wheat and gluten, most get really bad digestion from them. Remember grains are a neolithic food, I am not trying to scare you with the word lol, just saying that it likely may contribute to some problems later in life. Also I think when cooked grains are included you will loose you ability to digest cooked meat efficiently and you will also likely develop problems with dairy. I noticed with total exclusion of grains I handle dairy very well, when I eat grain, its bad, when I eat grains and dairy, really bad, get skin problems, cant digest etc. When I don't eat neo-crap, I have no problems having butter and kefir. I eat raw cheese but recently lost all craving for some reason, probably cause I put butter and cod liver oil back into my diet, I prefer the kefir over any cream or milk, its pasteurized but I can feel it has a gigantic pile of bacteria in it, its very thick and tangy, I leave it out in my room and it doesn't putrefy it gets even better. I'd stick away from getting too much lactose though, that kefir gives me a small dose of lactose, I'll eat it for 2-3 days and then I don't eat it for a week or two, I like carbs from roots, tubers and some non-sweet (or wild if I can find) fruits. The only lactose I allow to me is with the kefir - just because my body really digs whatever bacteria menagerie they put in there, I only buy that one brand too.

I don't think its a biggie if your fat isn't high...its more important its the right fat, animal fat, butter fat, fish fat - maybe coconut...I always eat the fat as part of my meat - or with eggs, or with a starch...just eating pure fat will make me disgusted too, unless its a good quality bone marrow, whats important is to not have to LITTLE fat.

Zero carb is unreal, unless you're very well adapted to it, but LOW carb is a blast! With minimal (for your lifestyle and adaption) but beneficial carbs, essential fat and animal protein, you are already near perfect diet-wise, or thats the way it feels to me.

Recently I included some clams, and I have felt totally wired up from them, guess I needed extra iron even with all the meat. If you didn't try clams give it a shot perhaps its help with exercise. I also mixed smoked clams with cod liver oil and it was nuts.

Offline B.Money

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2010, 12:22:14 pm »
Most people gain muscle best at bodyfat percentages above 10%, maybe the diet just got you too lean?

Offline KD

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2010, 12:29:09 pm »
I've been doing a little cooked yam/root/veg as part of my diet. It doesn't seem necessary for me to put on weight or muscle, but i'm speculating it will make it easier if I can successfully work it into my routine and be far healthier -for me- than raw carbs. I believe there are alot of factors that hardcore raw proponents don't get in addition to the fructose thing (which I guess is subjective) in comparison to raw bioactive fruit sugar. Also of course, unlike meat, raw starch won't be assimilated as easily as cooked. I've been downright emaciated 3-4 times in the last 5 years on a variety of approaches to raw (including RAF), so I don't know if that is part of the process, or just some pain in the ass from the wrong fit of ideas, but I can relate to the skepticism.

Offline King Salmon

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2010, 12:51:27 pm »
I've been doing a little cooked yam/root/veg as part of my diet. It doesn't seem necessary for me to put on weight or muscle, I've been downright emaciated 3-4 times in the last 5 years on a variety of approaches to raw (including RAF)

Not to derail the thread,but in the end how did you gain?
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Offline KD

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2010, 01:07:56 pm »
Not to derail the thread,but in the end how did you gain?

drugs and photoshop  -v


I dunno, part of me actually does believe there has to be a pretty massive overhaul of old tissue prior to healthy muscle and fat and that any all raw approach (healthy or not) will at least initiate this process. I do eat raw butter and lots of raw marrow and marginal suet which separates me somewhat from other VLC or LC folks. Also I've also been working out for like 10 years, so even given the new materials/construction there is some kind of 'muscle memory' or whatever I assume and just the pure intensity of my current training plays a large role. I think if I did not work out and followed some other Primal stuff or was just eating suet I probably could not gain weight that way. If I don't exercise, I hardly eat. I think getting just alot of variety of foods sources (even within VLC) is helpful even if it isn't necessary. That said, I've really gained less than 10 net lbs the year..I just got down a bit again for a time. I've talked to or heard about a few people that have gained like 30-50 lbs on some of this stuff...not sure how in shape they are though.

Offline Caveman

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2010, 02:19:42 am »
I don't think zero carb is optimal at all, that's why I've been sticking to eating very high quality rice even though I'm eating lots of meats and fats. When going zero carb in the past, it wasn't making me feel any better than the more unhealthy diet I was eating before. I do think I need to find a better starch for my body as I don't think I can digest rice so well. I wonder if potatoes would be ok for me.. I'll never know unless I try. Hopefully they'll help me gain some weight. It's all about finding what works for you.

Offline B.Money

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2010, 02:48:45 am »
I was one of those guys that gained 40+lbs in a few months on a bulking "bodybuilder" diet. I think about 30lbs of it was fat.

Sure the scale moves MUCH slower now, but I am also very lean and when I gain weight I can be sure its muscle and not fat.

Offline KD

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2010, 03:17:57 am »
I was one of those guys that gained 40+lbs in a few months on a bulking "bodybuilder" diet. I think about 30lbs of it was fat.

Sure the scale moves MUCH slower now, but I am also very lean and when I gain weight I can be sure its muscle and not fat.

I was speaking about just raw or animal food diets...mostly people on a Primal type diet specifically with those figures. Sitting around just makes it impossible for me to gain weight that way even if I tried to get fatter. There are a few people on DC forum that seem to have put on some mass with starch-free dairy-free diets, including some raw and some cooked animal foods...and I guess there are some people on ZIOH with athletic builds.


I don't think zero carb is optimal at all, that's why I've been sticking to eating very high quality rice even though I'm eating lots of meats and fats. When going zero carb in the past, it wasn't making me feel any better than the more unhealthy diet I was eating before. I do think I need to find a better starch for my body as I don't think I can digest rice so well. I wonder if potatoes would be ok for me.. I'll never know unless I try. Hopefully they'll help me gain some weight. It's all about finding what works for you.

yams require very little skill or equipment. its usually easy to come across organic and even biodynamic root veg, and just toss in the oven. I would probably start with the yams or bitter tubers over plain potatoes.

Offline yuli

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2010, 03:45:26 am »
I was speaking about just raw or animal food diets...mostly people on a Primal type diet specifically with those figures. Sitting around just makes it impossible for me to gain weight that way even if I tried to get fatter....

Yup, if I eat pure paleo I can't gain weight even if I sit on my ass for days, thats what I learned, when I do pure raw paleo I will not be able to gain ANY weight even if I add lots of fruit sugars and fat and I don't even like the feeling too much fruits give me - at all.
I can gain quick weight with potatoes (sweet, yam and white) added with butter or other animal fat and add a little dairy (optional).
If I ever feel too thin in winter, few big meals of potato laden with butter and topped with Kefir or sour cream often make me gain some weight quickly or keep up my weight, regardless of any activity level.

So if one wants to gain weight, tuber starch + butter/fat is a quick solution and for most very easy on digestion. But of course eat meat protein in a separate meal from the starch meal or you may have some digestive difficulties  :P

Offline subfarm

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2010, 05:07:50 am »
I definitely couldn't do zero carb. Much respect to those who can, but I've never made it more than a week. I need fruit and the occasional leafy green thing for optimal happiness.

Offline Stancel

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2010, 02:29:53 pm »
Could you eat the tubers raw? or would that just be gross and unhealthy?

Offline yuli

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2010, 02:37:08 pm »
Could you eat the tubers raw? or would that just be gross and unhealthy?

Yes, you can eat sweet potatoes raw, and they are good, but if you buy a bad batch they may be bleh.

Offline Hannibal

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2010, 04:07:06 pm »
Yup, if I eat pure paleo I can't gain weight even if I sit on my ass for days, thats what I learned, when I do pure raw paleo I will not be able to gain ANY weight even if I add lots of fruit sugars and fat and I don't even like the feeling too much fruits give me - at all.
I don't need to gain weight on puropose.
I gain it and lose it with the seasonal changes, practically ceteris paribus when it comes to my diet's composition.
Now I'm more bulked-up (88-90 kg).
But I DON"T NEED any cooked starches or dairy, whatsover.
Leanness is IMO very healthy and RPD ensures it. :)
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Offline RawZi

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2010, 05:10:13 pm »
I'm not sold on RPD anymore. Tried it now for a year or so.

What I think is mostly missing is cooked starch.

    Could it be the weather?  You being in Greenland in December?  Maybe come Springtime you will like raw paleo again.  What were you eating?  Are you originally from Greenland?  What kind and quality of foods do you find available?

Jack Lalanne. The guy is 96, still working out, still publishing books, still has a full head of hair and his natural haircolor.

He eats a mix of raw fruits/veg cooked whole grains and starches + cooked meat

    Is he against raw meat now?  He was drinking a lot of raw cow blood for a time, many years ago. http://www.esquire.com/features/what-ive-learned/ESQ0804-AUG_WIL I wonder if the blood made him sick.  Does he mean his blood clotted, or he just got disgusted with the idea of drinking it?


Leanness is IMO very healthy and RPD ensures it. :)

    Leanness is normally healthful, but when one encounters toxins it could be good to have fat.  Also, a woman can use fat to nourish her young, I think.  Women may need some fat on them.  I was very thin most of my life.  I did have muscular development where necessary, of course I grew more now.  I remember though a time I was so thin I had to intentionally start gaining weight; because I thought it looked unwomanly, thin skin, bones and breast. 

    Yuli is pretty thin at her height.  Being that thin is probably vata constitution (extremist).  Vata is the constitution of very old people.  Kapha is that of woman and and that of children.  I think it's good that she's seeking a balance of cooked and raw foods.  Personally I prefer all raw, but I think I have more Pitta in my constitution (heat and testosterone).  I think it's good that she tests to see if she can gain a little weight.  When a person has imbalanced Vata various things can happen, they can get obese or emaciated for one, especially without Pitta. It might be accomplished by eating more raw meats, but maybe not for her. Leanness is beautiful, and at that height and weight, a literal pound or two extra will not detract from the beauty, but add to it.

    Yuli, I can't believe I'm saying it's totally fine for someone to eat some cooked, but I am raw, that doesn't mean I judge that each individual should always be.  Cooked foods are addictive anyway, for me.  They're hard to avoid in some situations.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2010, 05:52:19 pm »
Leanness is normally healthful, but when one encounters toxins it could be good to have fat.  
But leanness doesn't defnitely exclude having fat. I DO HAVE the adipose tissue, probably over 10 pounds. Isn't that enough?  :o
Quote
Yuli is pretty thin at her height.
 
And she is a physically active woman.  :)
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2010, 06:03:06 pm »
I had to laugh when Jack Lalanne was mentioned. In that video, he certainly looks a pale, sickly shadow compared to certain, clearly photoshopped images I've seen of him of him elsewhere online. And " natural hair-colour at 96"?!  -v l) l) l)  Yeah, right  l)  Well, if anything, it does show what botox and other plastic surgery can do for you, if you've got the cash.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2010, 06:07:02 pm »
  Well, if anything, it does show what botox and other plastic surgery can do for you, if you've got the cash.
That's a good point.
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Offline wodgina

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2010, 08:14:50 pm »
He is 94 years old. He doesn't use botox or have plastic surgery. His hair looks dyed though.
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: A lil' update.
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2010, 08:33:42 pm »
He is 94 years old. He doesn't use botox or have plastic surgery. His hair looks dyed though.
  One can never be absolutely sure re plastic surgery. I agree that some 100-year-olds can look like he does, given photos I've seen in the past, but plastic surgery can sometimes be so good one cannot tell from a photo. But the hair-issue seems obvious - I mean, everybody's hair turns white eventually in old age. While a 60 or maybe even a 70 year old man might miraculously still retain all his original hair-colour, any one older is bound to be grey-haired, mostly or wholly.
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" Ron Paul.

 

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