How to put some muscle on a raw paleo diet ??

[carnivore]

Has anybody here gain muscles on a raw paleo or raw meat diet ?

I find that I can only maintain my weight (68Kg for 1m82) on my raw meat diet. This is probably because I can't eat lots of fat (my pulse increases too much).

[TylerDurden]

I had very sagging muscles pre-rawpaleodiet, and gained a little muscle-tone after cutting out the raw dairy, but not on the level of a bodybuilder. I also found I gained muscle-mass quicker when I went in for extensive exercise such as weightlifting etc. - pre-rawpalaeo, I would find it extremely difficult to build muscle at all, being unable to do more than 10 minutes at the gym before collapsing in agony.

[mors01]

When I ate SAD, my weight was around 120 lbs.
When I was vegan, my weight dropped to 100-110 lbs.

After going raw paleo, my weight went up to around 120 lbs.
No matter how much I ate, or how many carbs I ate, the weight didn't go higher.

Then I started weight training. I was eating carbs (oranges) after workouts.
My weight went up to 140 lbs.

But the carbs were making me feel awful, so I cut them out. I went from 140 lbs to 150 lbs,
while eating only animal-food.

(My height is 5'11")

Maybe try eating different kinds of fat. I can't eat much poultry fat, or bone marrow, without
getting nauseous, but I can eat suet, or fat from brisket/ribs in much greater quantities.

-Mike

[wodgina]

I put on muscle pretty easily, and raw paleo I probably need 1/3 of the exercise I require when I used to eat SAD, but  fat is the most important thing to eat.

I agree with Mike, try all types of fat, you could even try the same types of fat but from different farms.

I used to hate suet didn't agree with me and the taste made me gag(white suet), I found a great source of suet which tastes creamy and agrees with me. Once I found that supply about 1 year ago its all been smooth sailing.

(the best suet is red and yellow in colour..yum.. avoid white suet  it makes me feel ill)

Good Luck

Andrew

[carnivore]

Isn't suet the fat around the kidney ? I like this one but there's not much on an animal.
Do you find it raw ?
I think that a good fat should not be totally white, but yellow, because nutrients in general gives the color of the food.

I have problems to digest fat, and I suspect an HCL deficiency. I plan to add some lemon juice (citric acid) to my meat to see if it help.

Currently, I am working out nearly every day, less than 30 minutes, mixing cardio with bodyweight exercices (circuits). High intensity, but low weight.

[wodgina]

When I order my suet I get given chunks which weigh over a kilo each! so that lasts me a few days. I unfortunatley been throwing half of my food out a week, but luckily my brothers interested in RP.

How does HCl help with fat digestion, I didnt think acid did anything to fat. In what way do you not digest fat? does it go straight through you or does it just stay in your stomach?

Andrew

[carnivore]

Acid should be able to disolve fat, like HCL does. Isn't it ?

I believe my HCL is too low for the folowing reasons :
-I often feel heavy and tired after eating, and my stomach can take several hours to empty.
-I often have gut infection, and HCL is supposed to kill many potentially harmful micro-organisms in the food
-When I was nearly vegetarian (with eggs), I had a severe B12 deficiency, which is one of the consequences of a low stomach acid.
-I don't eat salt and I used to vomit, 2 causes of low HCL production.

My pulse increases according to my fat intake. I don't know if it is related to low HCL, but I noticed that when the food stay in my stomach too long, my heart rate increases a lot.

[wodgina]

I tried to clean my fat out out of my meat grinder with 35% HCl! thats why I know HCl does nothing to fat.

Craig mentioned the gallbladder can emulsifies fat, so I think you may have some problem with bile production.

Andrew

[goodsamaritan]

You need bile to digest fats.
Might be a good time to do a couple of liver flushes and flush out some stones if they are part of the problem.

[carnivore]

Well, bile contains some acids which are used to dissolve and emulsify fat.
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/liver/bile.html

I also read that vinegar helps to digest fat.

This makes me think that acid can help to digest fat. Anyway, I will mix lemon juice with fat to see what happens.

[xylothrill]

Well, bile contains some acids which are used to dissolve and emulsify fat.
http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/digestion/liver/bile.html

I also read that vinegar helps to digest fat.

This makes me think that acid can help to digest fat. Anyway, I will mix lemon juice with fat to see what happens.

Don't let the word "acid" fool you. If Andrew can't dissolve fat with 35% solution of HCL, vinegar isn't going to do anything. Bile acids are different, similar to how fatty acids and amino acids are different from HCL. Perhaps you should try the flush Edwin recommended.

Craig

[carnivore]

I remember that when I ate butter, a few years ago, I had a tremendous energy that I never had after (unfortunately, I can't tolerate butter). Butter is already emulsified, so no need much bile to digest it.
So I have probably also a bile deficiency.

What is a liver flush ?
How do I flush my liver ?

[TylerDurden]

I remember that when I ate butter, a few years ago, I had a tremendous energy that I never had after (unfortunately, I can't tolerate butter). .

In the early stages of my diet, I also consumed raw dairy and would get an initial  massive rush of energy  for 3o minutes to an hour - then, after that period, I would feel extremely fatigued. In hindsight, I was allergic to the dairy, and the dairy had fouled up my adrenals so badly that the latter reacted with an adrenaline boost after every intake of dairy which explained my initial energy-boost and subsequent collapse - at least that's what I think.

[Nicola]

I am shocked to find all this when I have been posting quite a lot about stomach acid - so people do have problems and assume this or that!

Vinegar, lemon juice and other so called acids can make things worse. The question is paleo / salt / digestion?

http://tinyurl.com/3otkyr

http://tinyurl.com/4erdom

Nicola

[carnivore]

Thank's Nicola for the URLs.

So it seems that in case of HCL deficiency, it should be better to wait an hour after eating before taking any acid to compensate.

Raw dairy, when I ate some, gave me a constant good energy. BUT after a few months, I had systematically severe flu. I repeat this experience several times.

I am shocked to find all this when I have been posting quite a lot about stomach acid - so people do have problems and assume this or that!

Vinegar, lemon juice and other so called acids can make things worse. The question is paleo / salt / digestion?

http://tinyurl.com/3otkyr

http://tinyurl.com/4erdom

Nicola

[TheWayCreatesTheWarrior]

When I order my suet I get given chunks which weigh over a kilo each! so that lasts me a few days. I unfortunatley been throwing half of my food out a week, but luckily my brothers interested in RP.

How does HCl help with fat digestion, I didnt think acid did anything to fat. In what way do you not digest fat? does it go straight through you or does it just stay in your stomach?

Andrew

wodgina6722, do you order your suet online or from someone local to you?

what exactly is suet? i always thought it was just beef fat or something.

[wodgina]

I have a standing order from a butcher, all the organs and suet for $30. Its for my dog I have way too much for one person but I'm not saying anything because I'm so happy to have such a great deal.

I didn't know what suet was when I started the diet, I originally thought it was some sort of organ! then I thought it was just the fat around the muscle and ordered some of that, I couldn't swallow it and nearly choked. I gave up on suet really and Jeff (tylerdurden) had mentioned it wasn't very nice anyway.

I have since perservered because marrow was such a pain, all those massive bones for a tiny bit of fat. I worked out the marrow was costing me around $60 a kilo.

All suet is not the same, some is quite revolting and makes me feel ill, I can tell now by looking at it and the suet I get now is 95% tasty and healthy!

Suet is the fat around the kidneys, softer than muscle fat harder than marrow.

Andrew

Ps. Just got Geoff's next post, sorry mate! I should know better, I'm from the mother country too!

[TylerDurden]

I have a standing order from a butcher, all the organs and suet for $30. Its for my dog I have way too much for one person but I'm not saying anything because I'm so happy to have such a great deal.

I didn't know what suet was when I started the diet, I originally thought it was some sort of organ! then I thought it was just the fat around the muscle and ordered some of that, I couldn't swallow it and nearly choked. I gave up on suet really and Jeff (tylerdurden) had mentioned it wasn't very nice anyway.

I have since perservered because marrow was such a pain, all those massive bones for a tiny bit of fat. I worked out the marrow was costing me around $60 a kilo.

All suet is not the same, some is quite revolting and makes me feel ill, I can tell now by looking at it and the suet I get now is 95% tasty and healthy!

Suet is the fat around the kidneys, softer than muscle fat harder than marrow.

Andrew

(Just for the record, my name is spelt "Geoff"! "Jeff" is a horrible americanisation of my name).

Re marrow:- I had problems in the past re getting all the bones and too little marrow. This was because they assumed that it was meant as dog-food, and they figured that dogs don't complain. I solved that by asking specifically for only those bones with the most marrow in them, and insisting that they cut up the marrow-bones into chunks less than 6 inches long(I pay roughly  1.50 UK pounds a kilo of marrow(including the weight of the bone )

[pioneer]

I read somewhere that when researchers tested ketones in urine, the caloric content of 1 gram of ketone is 5 calories which means if your on a ketogenic diet, your fat consumption in calories is considerably less. However I bet if you ate 2lb meat a day, 12 eggs, some veggies, you'd put some weight on.

[pioneer]

My friend was 220 lb and fat before cooked paleo. Once on cooked he dropped 25lbs in about 3 months, then he got stuck in a plateau. I then switched him to RPD and he lost an additional 20lbs in 2 months and is shredded now with only 7% body fat according to a bod pod. He only does strength training 2x a week for only 20min a session due to his busy job. It just goes to show how diet along with even minimal exercise can change one's whole body composition and make them healthy. I myself cant stop losing weight and I eat like an animal. Im 160lb down from 200lb and am almost shredded - about 9% BF. I'm even trying to gain weight and I still lose weight. However I train strength training 3x a week 20min a session plus some jiu jitsu so that probably sheds the pounds too. I guess I'll have to just eat lbs of meat and fat a day in order to gain weight.

[klowcarb]

I just got back from my semi-montly BF caliper analysis. Every 8 weeks I have an appointment to get my BF tested so I can track my fitness level for bodybuilding.

In February I was 103 lbs. and 14.4% BF.
I am now 103 lbs. and 13.3% BF.

I have put on some muscle and dropped fat. I have no plans to go lower. All I do is eat a high fat percentage, the rest protein, only carbs from meat and organs, and I lift very heavy (4-8 rep range) for 1 hour 3 times a week, and I do some cardio and other bodyweight exercises. I love being lean and strong and think that it is just a matter of finding your calorie range and keeping carbs low and fat and protein level.

[pioneer]

Whenever I come home from college, there is only fruit, veggies and some meat in the house for me to eat. I always gain some fat after eating a considerable amount of carbs. Once I am on my own I lose the fat fast because I eat only about 5-10% carbs. It really seems like carbs are the enemy when it comes to storing fat. Maybe its just my body type, but I can eat as much fat and protein I want and I never get fat, I only put on muscle.