Author Topic: Is hand washing with soap necessary?  (Read 27290 times)

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Offline Techydude

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Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« on: January 29, 2011, 08:08:42 pm »
Well I was really concerned about this. For years soap has caused me dry skin and I read into bathing without soap to keep your body's natural oil production , ph, and bacteria in check and have gone without it for months with great results.

However, I continue to use soap to wash my hands out of the fear of getting sick. It does make me wonder, how did hunter gatherers live without soap yet lived such prosperous lives? Immune system? Healthy food? Who knows.

Though it is noteworthy that we don't wash our meats and vegetables in soap and they could carry potential pathogens yet they don't!  :)

So is soap necessary and has anyone gone without soap without catching say polio or the flu/swine flu or mrsa, etc? Though it is noteworthy that we don't wash our meats and vegetables in soap and they could carry potential pathogens yet they don't!  :)

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2011, 08:45:07 pm »
Well, I think it is essential to wash hands with soap after use of the bathroom.  :o :o I mean, I am not so low as to shake someone's hand after visiting the toilet for a dump  without washing my hands beforehand.


I also wash my body with soap once a day when using the bath. I recall my father stating that Australian acquaintances of his told him that wallowing in one's dirt instead of using a shower was disgusting, but I'm not so bothered, and the use of soap doesn't seem to harm me. I do draw the line at using shampoo(except once a year, perhaps).
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 09:37:08 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline Techydude

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2011, 09:08:55 pm »
Oh sure of course I wash my hands after say taking a dump lol. I'm still currently using soap atm but i'm questioning it. I always questions things when I think back to our prehistoric ancestors.


It does make sense to ask - how did our paleo ancestors live without soap?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 09:35:59 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2011, 09:38:49 pm »
Of course soap is not necessary, but it is the civilized way. Modern life is full of pollution and grime that never existed in paleo times so I will use soap if I have actual dirt and grime to wash off, but then once a day I will rub some oil into my hands, It conditions the skin very well, I actually have been using beef tallow recently because I have ran out of coconut oil.

The primary warning I will give to everyone is to avoid public restroom soaps and any soaps labled anti bacterial, It has been known for years that the antibacterial agents contained in these soaps can soak through the skin and act as hormone disruptor's.

Triclocan was literally the main ingredient to everything in my jail care pack(smells like conspiracy to cull the criminal class to me), if you ever get locked up beware of the sterilization products, These chemicals make men less than men hormonally , and even in small amounts should not be trusted. Just look it up.

Endocrine disruption

A 2006 study concluded that low doses of triclosan act as an endocrine disruptor in the North American bullfrog.[31] The hypothesis proposed is that triclosan blocks the metabolism of thyroid hormone, because it chemically mimics thyroid hormone, and binds to the hormone receptor sites, blocking them, so that normal hormones cannot be used. Triclosan has also been found in both the bile of fish living downstream from waste water processing plants and in human milk.[32] The negative effects of triclosan on the environment and its questionable benefits in toothpastes[33] has led to the Swedish Naturskyddsföreningen to recommend not using triclosan in toothpaste.[34] Another 2009 study demonstrated that triclosan exposure significantly impacts thyroid hormone concentrations in the male juvenile rats.[35]

So if it screws up the thyroid hormonal concentration of juvenile rats then does anyone want to lather up in it after every bathroom visit.

They put this shit in our soaps and people bath their children in it daily, I know parents who will wash their kids hands in antibacterial soaps many times daily as well as a bath with it. Males are being culled chemically and not very many people these days are able to reach their hormonal peaks because of issues like exposure to hormone disrupting chemicals. The chemicals in soap may not be a primary concern, but should be viewed as icing on the cake of  the chemical bombardment that is going on.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 09:44:49 pm by sabertooth »
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2011, 09:41:22 pm »
Oh sure of course I wash my hands after say taking a dump lol. I'm still currently using soap atm but i'm questioning it. I always questions things when I think back to our prehistoric ancestors.
It does make sense to ask - how did our paleo ancestors live without soap?
Well, I suppose they used special herbs to scent their bodies or used some similiar equivalent to soap, perhaps? But even if not, I don't think we ought to emulate everything done in palaeo times, such as human sacrifice, cannibalism or not washing with soap.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2011, 10:00:51 pm »
Ketozancole (NIZORAL) shampoo will drop your testosterone for a few days.

I don't wash with soap much and never use deodorant, I got told I smell really nice the other day by a girl at the shops, she said a mixture of testosterone and some other thing. I get served by her a fair bit.
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Offline Haai

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2011, 10:02:02 pm »
Soap is not at all necessary. In fact I would say it was bad. What benefit does soap have? It's just a block of toxic chemicals and irritants. If you wash your hands with soap and then go handle meat to eat then you will eat some of these toxins along with it. Not to mention, like sabertooth said, the stuff that gets absorbed through the skin.
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Offline Techydude

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2011, 10:06:15 pm »
Hmm I have considered washing my hands with fresh lemon juice. I've tried vinegar but the smell never comes off D:

Offline Haai

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2011, 10:11:15 pm »
I just wash my hands with water. There's no need to worry about bacteria. There's loads of bacteria in our food anyway, it does us more good than harm. That's why many people here eat high meat. So why worry about bacteria on our hands?
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline wodgina

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2011, 10:19:26 pm »
Yeah vinegar does stick around. How about bicarb of soda? that works quite well.

Soap removes the oily acidic protective layer that stops viruses and stuff. Maybe soap is worse than nothing?


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Offline Techydude

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2011, 10:24:02 pm »
True soap does kill the good bacteria layer of the skin. But baking soda is worrying as the skin is acidic and it stops bacteria by making the skin basic which is unnatural and i've had basic burn on my underarms and balls(lol) when trying to use it as a deodorizer...


But it is worrysome if lemon juice or vinegar would kill the beneficial bacteria there. But the question is if my hands were covered with fecal matter and I were to just wash them in water and eat something would I still get sick?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2011, 11:25:12 pm »
Quite possibly. After all what comes out the other end sometimes involves toxins of one sort or another, so it would not be a good idea to try that.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2011, 01:17:20 am »
We buy "organic" soap.
I wash my hands with some soap before I eat.
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Offline Hans89

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2011, 01:50:41 am »
Soapnuts anyone? I use them for washing my hair. Wash my hands with water only most of the time. Only when really necessary I use soap, which is rare.

Offline Bronwen

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2011, 02:04:04 am »
I haven't used soap for about 7 or 8 years now, apart from the occasional use of an olive oil soap on my hair, which I predominantly just rinse with lemon juice. Wash my hands with water after using the loo. In the mornings I do a vigorous skin brush - face and body - this cleans away all the dead skin and some dirt, improves circulation to the skin and allows skin to breathe and perspire freely. Face and eyes get rinsed with cold water. I only shower every second evening or so, as I swim most days anyway. A vigorous rub or scrub in the shower gets most of the dirt off (and scrubbing brushes can feel quite invigorating too!). Use a scrub of ground aduki beans (grind them myself) on my face. Use a water-based cream containing natural plant oils on my face only.
I would say my skin is in excellent condition, looks clean and fresh, no problems with body odours, break outs or anything. Face is clear. And apart from the occasional cold, haven't ever had any scary 'sicknesses' that could be caused by bad bacteria!
As little soap as possible would be my recommendation for healthy skin and healthy bacterial balance on the skin. Use a scrubbing brush with water if your hands are really dirty (no suggestions for mechanics, since I don't really ever have that sort of grease on my hands!). Or scrub with lemon skin or even a half lemon. And remember SUNLIGHT. I can't remember the details or where I read it, but apparently it is a wonderful skin cleanser (in terms of ridding the skin of the bacteria that contribute to odours if I remember correctly).
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Offline sabertooth

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2011, 06:13:16 am »
I try not to use much soap but if I get high meat on my hands it wont just rinse off so I have to use something if its on a work day.

I have just recently been using beef tallow as hand and body lotion due to running out of coconut oil, I think it works well as a skin conditioner and could be used as a inexpensive way to battle winter dryness, just rub it into the skin and after a few minuets rinse it of with hot water and your hands will be soft hydrated and clean, although some may not like the beef fat aroma. It is much thicker than any lotion so may not be pleassent to leave on, but it does leave a protective coating on the skin. I heard that some Native Americans used bear grease and alligator grease as a skin protectant and bug repellent. The Greeks would oil themselves in olive oil and scrape it off with a blade to stay clean.
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Offline KD

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2011, 06:46:22 am »
I try not to use much soap but if I get high meat on my hands it wont just rinse off so I have to use something if its on a work day.

heh, yeah to the natural hygiene guys...basically some shit just will not wash off with water. This includes potentially: air pollution and other stuff in your skin. For me unfortunately its often far less natural chemicals and things which require soap.

I don't shower with soap daily. If I lived in a pure environment and and only bathed in well or filtered water, I wouldn't ever use soap. I could use my own feces as a condiment and never worry about getting ill. The issue for me is other people. Other people prefer me to not have meat slime and other such things on my hands and mouth, so I wash them with soap or whatever. I try to use clean soaps at home but will use other soaps at work or at the gym. Not something I stress about either way. There are some people that believe until you remove ALL 'toxins' from your foods and skin and water that your body doesn't heal properly or whatever..but I have alot of anecdotal evidence saying otherwise. Seems like just one more thing in the atmosphere to obsess over.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 06:52:33 am by TylerDurden »

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2011, 08:51:25 am »
Well, I suppose they used special herbs to scent their bodies or used some similiar equivalent to soap, perhaps?
Like what?

What do you use for soap?

Quote
But even if not, I don't think we ought to emulate everything done in palaeo times, such as human sacrifice, cannibalism or not washing with soap.
Agreed, we shouldn't re-enact blindly.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2011, 09:03:25 am »
Like what?

What do you use for soap?
Well, there is relatively unprocessed coconut oil etc. for soap.
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" Ron Paul.

Offline Paleo Donk

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2011, 09:09:44 am »
The issue for me is other people. Other people prefer me to not have meat slime and other such things on my hands and mouth, so I wash them with soap or whatever.

Lol, who gives a shit what they think? And when have other people commented about meat slime?


Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2011, 09:27:54 am »
Well, there is relatively unprocessed coconut oil etc. for soap.
OK, thanks, what are some of the etceteras? Any ideas on the similiar equivalents to soap that Stone Agers might have used?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Techydude

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2011, 10:34:32 am »
What about lemon juice or just forgoing anything and hoping on your immune system and your skins ph and bacterial balance?

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2011, 06:45:55 am »
OK, thanks, what are some of the etceteras? Any ideas on the similiar equivalents to soap that Stone Agers might have used?
Haven't done any real research on this yet, except for coconut oil, tea-tree-oil and baking soda. But I am sure there are other possibilities.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2011, 09:44:46 am »
Thanks Tyler. One occurred to me--cleansing mud. So do you use coconut oil or what?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Is hand washing with soap necessary?
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2011, 03:49:16 pm »
Thanks Tyler. One occurred to me--cleansing mud. So do you use coconut oil or what?
No, I just use normal soap, but I check the ingredients list and choose those which seem more natural than the rest.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

 

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