Author Topic: Fiat currency  (Read 35038 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #100 on: August 27, 2011, 07:09:04 am »
can you please explain what you mean by good debt? risks and how much it pays.


Well if you are interested and not taking the piss PM me and I'll tell you what I've done and what I'm doing.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #101 on: August 27, 2011, 07:10:45 am »
I hope for their sake that you're right. I wish our government and people had more gold and other hard assets (and less debt) to back the currency and make our people's finances and the economy more robust to adversity. It's not good for the nation to rely on fiat currency and build up such massive government and personal debt. The whole thing is a confidence game, a massive ponzi scheme. If confidence is lost, then it all falls apart.
You're not claiming that the price of gold can never go down, are you?

In fiat or against corn?
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #102 on: August 27, 2011, 07:13:36 am »
In fiat or against corn?
I don't know what you mean.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #103 on: September 24, 2011, 07:46:33 pm »
I don't know what you mean.

I was alluding to the fact that valuing gold in fiat is not so accurate.

Silver and gold got smashed yesterday. Crazy times.
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #104 on: September 24, 2011, 11:47:42 pm »
What do you value gold in?

Yes, in the last great crash in 2008-9, gold, stocks, oil and housing prices all plummeted in a broad deleveraging. Cash equivalents were my only asset that held up reasonably well in value and since I was heavy in cash I didn't take much of a hit, but I suspect that cash will take a hyperinflationary hit at some point, what with the monetization of global debt.

Here are some other ways to value gold other than straight US dollars: http://www.econideal.com/2011/09/valuing-gold-from-inflation-and-money.html, though, admittedly, the source is biased in favor of investing in gold.
Quote
Rogers: Only a Crisis Can Fix U.S. Debt Problem 6/8/2011 8:19:15 PM
http://online.wsj.com/video/rogers-only-a-crisis-can-fix-us-debt-problem/7B14FAAB-F745-4ECA-ADB4-F8D5BD0A2C96.html

Q: If like me you're paid in dollars, what would you do?

Rogers: [laughs] Move to Asia, if I were you, and get paid in Asian hard currencies.

Note - Rogers lives in Singapore, where the currency is 100% backed by international assets:
"All issued Singapore dollar currency in circulation is fully backed by international assets to maintain public confidence.[3] The foreign reserves officially stand at over US$230 billion - as of May 2011." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singapore_dollar
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 01:14:45 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #105 on: September 25, 2011, 03:34:03 am »
Yeah I did noticed Rogers lived in Singapore, he is a smart man. Here is a recent interview which I liked. Looked to be flirting with the news reader.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9WnKWamzA&feature=player_embedded

« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 06:02:03 am by TylerDurden »
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #106 on: September 25, 2011, 08:54:31 am »
Yeah, he gives good interviews. Similar views to Taleb.

So do you value gold in corn or what?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline PaleoPhil

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 6,198
  • Gender: Male
  • Mad scientist (not into blind Paleo re-enactment)
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #107 on: September 29, 2011, 09:51:37 am »
'Anyone can make money from a crash,' says market trader
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15059135
Q: "(E)xactly what would keep investors happy; make them feel more confident?"
A: "(I)t doesn't matter. .... Get prepared. This is not a time right now to (do) wishful thinking.... The government is not going to sort things out. The governments don't rule the world, Goldman Sachs rules the world. .... (L)earn about how to make money from a downward market. The first thing people should do is protect their assets."

Refreshing candor.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
I'm the 1% let's talk
« Reply #108 on: October 29, 2011, 09:11:33 am »
Peter Schiff worth over 100 illion dollars talks with the 99% protesters.

Peter Schiff at OWS: "Walmart Doesn't Hold a Gun to Your Head!"
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #109 on: October 29, 2011, 01:28:09 pm »
Peter Schiff  does make a point:- the reason for shoving jobs over to China is because people want cheaper goods. Even so, the arrogant fact that companies refuse to employ people in Western countries because they demand certain rights like decent salaries etc., is not excusable. What Western people should do is state that if certain Western companies have no interest in employing staff from those Western populations, then those Western populations should not buy their goods at all. I mean, all those Chinese/Polish etc. workers  overseas are treated like the purest dogsh*t, being forced to wear nappies because they are not allowed any toilet-breaks etc., so everybody is being treated like sh*t by these companies.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #110 on: October 29, 2011, 03:21:40 pm »
Peter Schiff  does make a point:- the reason for shoving jobs over to China is because people want cheaper goods. Even so, the arrogant fact that companies refuse to employ people in Western countries because they demand certain rights like decent salaries etc., is not excusable. What Western people should do is state that if certain Western companies have no interest in employing staff from those Western populations, then those Western populations should not buy their goods at all. I mean, all those Chinese/Polish etc. workers  overseas are treated like the purest dogsh*t, being forced to wear nappies because they are not allowed any toilet-breaks etc., so everybody is being treated like sh*t by these companies.

Because we want cheap goods. Companies do what they do. Anyway governments put in minimum wages. The government makes it difficult to employ people. My boss can't sack me it's too difficult, even if I'm unproductive.  The last company I worked at no one had ever been fired.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 04:46:23 pm by TylerDurden »
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
I'm the 1% let's talk
« Reply #111 on: October 29, 2011, 03:22:48 pm »
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #112 on: October 29, 2011, 04:49:58 pm »
It's true that governments make things difficult re firing people, but that should change re altering laws. I don't think minimum wages are a problem per se, they just ensure that people don't work as slaves. What we need are harsher employment laws forcing the Chinese/Polish etc. to have decent working conditions so that no one is forced to wear nappies during work etc.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #113 on: October 29, 2011, 06:16:14 pm »
Wear diapers? where do you get this stuff! ha ha

ps Don't send me a link
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline RawZi

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,052
  • Gender: Female
  • Need I say more?
    • View Profile
    • my twitter
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #114 on: October 29, 2011, 08:35:00 pm »
What we need are harsher employment laws forcing the Chinese/Polish etc. to have decent working conditions so that no one is forced to wear nappies during work etc.

    I hadn't heard about the Chinese and Polish, but I believe it.  I've seen enough in person.  I wouldn't mind seeing a link either, but I still will believe it even if there is no link.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,149
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #115 on: October 29, 2011, 09:20:08 pm »
There is an occupy wall street group that is active in my church, and it seems that the main gripe among Unitarians is centered around the financial tyranny and exploitation of the third and second world by the clandestine empire and predatory IMF loan sharks. Some of the stolen loot trickles down to the people of the west and keeps many complacent, but the third and second world countries are really getting hit hard and receive nothing in return.

 Many countries in sub-Saharan Africa are paying up to four times the money for foreign debt as they are for educcation and health care. They have become debt slaves and foreigners own their infrastructure . Anytime someone attempts to rise up and break free of the debt system they are taken out. Just look of what happened to Libya. Ask yourself what business did the UN have in aiding "Rebel forces" What right did the french military  have to bomb Gaddafi's convoy. Why did the western forces really take him out. He was a threat to the hegemony of the western financial mafias. The rebels that have taken over the country are basically useful idiots that don't have the strength or the will to resist the Empire as Gaddafi had done. Soon the western empire will come in and loot what wealth is left in that nation.

Maybee you can't blame wall street for everything, but then who can you blame  for such operations. It seems that there are unseen charioteers that hide behind the curtain of our financial institutions. I think what the focus of the occupy wallstreet movement should be is prompting new legislation that would guarantee transparency.

The real problem with wallstreet is secrecy, larceny fraud, counterfeiting ,ponzy schemes,cronyism, conflicts of interest, coopting of government officials, etc. As long as companies are still aloud to keep multiple sets of books and hide information about their liability while falsifying information about their assets then the crimes will continue.

People need to demand honesty and transparency in the financial sector. But sadly the controlled media has developed ingenious ways of obscuring the real issues and infussing a bunch of irrelevant talking points , and partisan bullcrap, to distract people from demanding Justice for crimes that have been committed.

Does anyone doubt that there have been crimes committed? There must be justice, and the criminals must be punished. In a free market/free society you cant allow these types of white collar crimes to persist, or else the average person looses faith in the system and you have the type of breakdown that is happening Right Now.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2011, 11:37:40 pm by TylerDurden »
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #116 on: October 29, 2011, 11:48:35 pm »
There were 2 Daily Telegraph articles, one about Polish workers, working for German companies, being forced to wear nappies  because they were not allowed any toilet-breaks, and another similiar story about Chinese workers. I can't find them right now, but here is a story about an Argentinian firm doing the same sort of thing:-

http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/food-stores/4255560-1.html
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,961
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #117 on: October 30, 2011, 04:02:05 am »
Congrats to the Peter Shilling guy for speaking. I agree with him.

I also agree with the Occupy Wall Street movement. It's about time people got off their duffs.

I feel that Ron Paul is absolutely correct.

If you are not familiar, Ron Paul is an American politician with brilliant ideas on monetary policy re: gold standard. I recommend reading his book "Liberty Defined".

He is a one in a million politician.
Cheers
Al

Offline wodgina

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,304
  • Opportunistic Carnivore
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #118 on: October 30, 2011, 06:33:45 am »
There were 2 Daily Telegraph articles, one about Polish workers, working for German companies, being forced to wear nappies  because they were not allowed any toilet-breaks, and another similiar story about Chinese workers. I can't find them right now, but here is a story about an Argentinian firm doing the same sort of thing:-

http://www.allbusiness.com/retail-trade/food-stores/4255560-1.html

Allegedly..maybe..someone heard from someone! lol you pull this extreme stuff from the depths of the internet. Sometimes I feel like you're being paid to jump in and make our arguments ridiculous.

One thing the video shows is the protesters don't know why they are there and the hypocrisy!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2011, 06:59:29 am by TylerDurden »
“Integrity has no need of rules.”

Albert Camus

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #119 on: October 30, 2011, 07:10:35 am »
Considering that employees have been treated even worse than this,  these stories are unlikely to have been made up. Here's some more info:-

"Please relieve me, let me go

Speed-up of work and new management techniques are making loo breaks vulnerable across the industrialised world and in big name companies.

In Canada, after a survey of workers at the four major motor manufacturers, GM, Ford, Chrysler and CAMI, the Canadian Auto Workers union (CAW) concluded: "Across all four companies, workers found it difficult to find a relief worker so that they could go to the washroom" (Hazards 64).

The US foodworkers' union UFCW has reported similar problems in a number of workplaces, with workers resorting to the use of adult diapers.

A US Bureau of National Affairs report highlights the case of a female factory worker who spent 10 per cent of her weekly wage on incontinent pads, worn inside her uniform because she was forced to work six hours without a break. One company even discouraged workers from drinking water to reduce time spent in the toilet (cited in Workers' Health International Newsletter, no.53, 1998).

A lack of facilities for women in traditionally male industries can have its own problems. A pregnant night shift worker at a Ford plant in Southampton had to be escorted by a security guard across a badly lit car park to the nearest women's toilet so he could unlock it, wait until she'd finished, then escort her back." taken from:-

http://www.hazards.org/toiletbreaks/

Also:-

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/03/us-chile-retail-diapers-idUSN0237031620070503

"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline raw-al

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,961
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #120 on: October 30, 2011, 07:25:25 am »
One thing the video shows is the protesters don't know why they are there and the hypocrisy!
Most people no matter how literate, intelligent, well meaning, when stuck in front of a camera or a large audience tend to stumble over their tongues and make no sense whatsoever.

I found that there was a certain amount of understanding in the crowd aside from the ones who were obviously not the brightest candles in the box.

What I liked was that it was a conversation that needed to be had with both sides under pressure. Looked to me to be a perfect opportunity to run with the issue and use it to catapult further action by Peter and the crowd. The people had a front row chance to start the ball rolling to get rid of the Fed, which I see as the root of the problem.

I used to be a liberal in my voting patterns. In other words if the choices were all bad I would vote liberal. Gradually I am starting to see the value of a more conservative viewpoint and after reading Ron Pul's books and seeing his videos I am sold on him.

I learned bout Ron Paul on this forum BTW.
Cheers
Al

Offline ys

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,323
    • View Profile
Re: Fiat currency
« Reply #121 on: April 16, 2013, 05:15:52 am »
Gold got hammered today
http://news.yahoo.com/gold-plunges-lowest-more-2-181027539.html

The gold market was also rattled by a proposal last week that Cyprus sell some of its gold reserves to support its banks. Traders worry that Spain, Italy and other weak European countries might follow suit, flooding the market with excess supply just as demand for the metal is weakening.

"This is panic, this it isn't organized at all," said Phil Streible, a senior commodities broker at RJ O'Brien Futures. "If you look at Italy or Spain....if they start liquidating, that's when you get serious movements."

Some Federal Reserve officials have also been calling for an early end to the central bank's bond-buying program. If that happens, it would likely cause U.S. interest rates to rise, resulting in an appreciation of the U.S. dollar. That gives traders another reason to sell gold, since they see the metal as an alternative to holding dollars.

Industrial metals also fell after China reported that economic growth slowed unexpectedly in the first three months of the year. The world's second-largest economy grew by 7.7 percent over a year earlier, slowing from the previous quarter, and short of many private sector forecasts that growth would accelerate slightly to 8 percent.

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk