Author Topic: Omega-6: significant at what point?  (Read 8758 times)

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Offline personman

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Omega-6: significant at what point?
« on: August 11, 2011, 10:37:07 pm »

At what point(say in terms of grams)-for the average person- do omega-6 fats become significant as deleterious to health? Assume a skewed ration of 1:20 for Omega-3:Omega-6 in the diet? At what point-in grams or other measure- does this EVEN matter? Why not consume (relative to percent of PUFAs) products that have a very skewed ratio of omega fats (high 6, low 3) and yet little omega fats at all---in high doses? eg. lbs. of grain-fed beef(high fat), tallow, eggs, butter, etc.... When should one start to worry about inflammation and the gamut of other problems bound up with 0-6?


« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 02:41:57 am by TylerDurden »

Offline achillezzz

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 02:18:26 am »
I think when the omega 6 is too much the body knows how to expel some of it?


Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2011, 03:03:26 am »
People in hotter climates can get away with, indeed, they need more of, Omega-6. Omega-6 naturally are higher compare to omega-3 in hotter locations. 

Omega-6 are also protective against sun damage, i.e., IIRC, they don't break down into free radicals like omega-3 when exposed to light as easily.

Omega-3 are more liquid at lower temperatures, which is useful in very cold weather.

Offline personman

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 04:19:38 am »
Are they necessary at all though? If so, at what level? If not: why not limit them as much as posiible instead of seeking to calibrate 0-3:0-6?

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 11:46:14 am »
Are they necessary at all though? If so, at what level? If not: why not limit them as much as posiible instead of seeking to calibrate 0-3:0-6?

Both are necessary. Nature will bite you in the butt if you try to subvert it too much.  Just eat a variety of high-quality fats, and don't lose sight of the bigger picture.

Offline RawZi

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 10:15:02 pm »
Why not consume (relative to percent of PUFAs) products that have a very skewed ratio of omega fats (high 6, low 3) and yet little omega fats at all---in high doses? eg. lbs. of grain-fed beef(high fat), tallow, eggs, butter, etc....

    You know tallow is fat rendered from fatty tissue by use of at least some heat.  Why not eat brains or other fatty tissues while choosing between types of fats, DHA may be helpful to the health.  I know my cats always eat the mole's head first and usually are so satisfied they leave the rest of the carcass over.
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Offline magnetic

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2011, 01:33:06 am »
At what point(say in terms of grams)-for the average person- do omega-6 fats become significant as deleterious to health? Assume a skewed ration of 1:20 for Omega-3:Omega-6 in the diet? At what point-in grams or other measure- does this EVEN matter? Why not consume (relative to percent of PUFAs) products that have a very skewed ratio of omega fats (high 6, low 3) and yet little omega fats at all---in high doses? eg. lbs. of grain-fed beef(high fat), tallow, eggs, butter, etc.... When should one start to worry about inflammation and the gamut of other problems bound up with 0-6?




Read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-3_fatty_acid#Significance_to_human_nutrition_and_health for an overview. If I remember correctly, the brain has a ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 FA of 1:1, whereas tissues that use omega FA outside of the brain have a ratio of 3:1 or 4:1. So what the body needs depends on the specific organ or tissue. It matters because your body needs omega FAs to perform various functions: omega-6 FA are inflammatory while omega-3 FA are anti-inflammatory. Inflammation is important when you are wounded but it also needs to be controlled, your body must control inflammation and heal wounds as well, and this is where omega-3 FAs come in. Here is an excellent article on EFAs and heart disease: http://eurheartjsupp.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/3/suppl_D/D8.pdf. So EFAs are involved in many bodily functions.

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2011, 11:55:04 pm »
Keep all PUFA to 4% calories or less. I use Fitday and it is super easy for me to do this. I eat mostly ruminant meat and ruminant fat (grassfed). I don't eat any poultry and for pork, only pork heart, which is lean. Eggs are the biggest contributer to my n-6, but worth it in that the rest of my PuFA is low. I also eat canned mackerel.

Offline zaidi

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2011, 10:57:00 pm »
Keep all PUFA to 4% calories or less. I use Fitday and it is super easy for me to do this. I eat mostly ruminant meat and ruminant fat (grassfed). I don't eat any poultry and for pork, only pork heart, which is lean. Eggs are the biggest contributer to my n-6, but worth it in that the rest of my PuFA is low. I also eat canned mackerel.

Do you notice any thing good after eating canned mackerel? Have you eaten fresh mackerel? Do you feel both are equal in benefits?

This question is important for me while I am still unable to go raw Paleo due to social pressure. And also I am really unable to get good quality meat.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 12:45:56 am by zaidi »

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2011, 01:10:05 am »
Do you notice any thing good after eating canned mackerel? Have you eaten fresh mackerel? Do you feel both are equal in benefits?

This question is important for me while I am still unable to go raw Paleo due to social pressure. And also I am really unable to get good quality meat.

I'm not damaged. I feel great eating canned mackerel with the delicious bones. No, I haven't ever had fresh mackerel and it is not convenient or pressing for me to do so.

As for good quality meat, if you can just afford supermarket meat, just get lean beef and supplement with coconut oil or grassfed butter. There you go! I don't understand what you mean by social pressure. You mean fat and sick people's opinions on your food choices?

Offline zaidi

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2011, 01:45:39 am »
I'm not damaged. I feel great eating canned mackerel with the delicious bones. No, I haven't ever had fresh mackerel and it is not convenient or pressing for me to do so.

As for good quality meat, if you can just afford supermarket meat, just get lean beef and supplement with coconut oil or grassfed butter. There you go! I don't understand what you mean by social pressure. You mean fat and sick people's opinions on your food choices?

Thanks a lot klowcarb. You have shown new dimensions to me with both mackerel and lean beef from the supermarket.

Two more questions:

1. How about supplementing it with Flaxseedoil too along with coconut oil? I have yet not found raw grassfed butter. But I could order it at ebay (I hope).

2. The canned mackerel that you buy, is it with oil or with their own brine or with tomato sauce?

Social Pressure:

I am living in Germany, but belong originally to Pakistan.

- This means we have "Joint Family System".
- This means it is considered bad if I enter in the kitchen (.... Kitchen is practically ruled by my mother).
- This means if I tell my family I want to eat "raw" meat, then they will deliver me immediately to the next mental hospital.

It is really good to have family at your back.  But at same time, it means you are not free to take the decisions..... Decisions are made by family collectively.

They have already denied my proposal of testing the raw Paleo diet (actually I proposed to eat raw Sashimi. But even that was denied forcefully. After that I have no courage and hope for raw Paleo diet).

I hope now you understand what really "Social Pressure" means for me.  :D
« Last Edit: September 08, 2011, 03:23:18 pm by TylerDurden »

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2011, 03:35:30 am »
How old are you? Move out and get your own place. Get a job to support yourself  :).

I get Polar Jack Mackerel in cases from amazon. Just mackerel and salt. Flaxseed is high in PUFA and has short-chain omega 3. Not worth it. Can you order foods online?

Offline RawZi

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2011, 07:07:07 pm »
    Who needs Omega-6?

- This means it is considered bad if I enter in the kitchen (.... Kitchen is practically ruled by my mother).

    If you do something they consider bad, will they shoot you with a gun immediately?  It is considered bad in my family if I do any of the things I need to do.  I hope you find a way.

    These recipes aren't exactly raw paleo, but the meat is either raw or fatty organs, and it should be acceptable in a Pakistani kitchen.  Of course I would recommend you eat it without the bread, but don't know if they would consider you bad then.

http://www.cookingmela.com/best-kibbeh-nayeh-recipe-raw-lebanese-steak-tartare-must-see-video-recipe/

www.bestdesicooking.com/2008/03/lamb-brain-masala-bheja-masala/

    Good luck and good health to you.
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Offline zaidi

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2011, 09:54:59 pm »
I get Polar Jack Mackerel in cases from amazon. Just mackerel and salt. Flaxseed is high in PUFA and has short-chain omega 3. Not worth it. Can you order foods online?

Thanks Miss.

Your earlier tips were really helpful and eased my life. I can order online, but canned Mackerel in this quality is not available even online in Germany (only ones are with vegetable oil).

How old are you? Move out and get your own place. Get a job to support yourself  :).

You sounded so innocent and so sweet as I read it.

At moment I am not old enough to get job and move out.

But for sure one day I will be old enough and will have a job. ..... but what will happen then?

Once I am having good job, and I will move out and my Parents will also move out with me to my new home  ;D.

In our culture children stay with parents & when they are grown up then parents stay with their children.


Offline zaidi

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2011, 10:02:11 pm »
    Who needs Omega-6?

    If you do something they consider bad, will they shoot you with a gun immediately?  It is considered bad in my family if I do any of the things I need to do.  I hope you find a way.

    These recipes aren't exactly raw paleo, but the meat is either raw or fatty organs, and it should be acceptable in a Pakistani kitchen.  Of course I would recommend you eat it without the bread, but don't know if they would consider you bad then.

http://www.cookingmela.com/best-kibbeh-nayeh-recipe-raw-lebanese-steak-tartare-must-see-video-recipe/

www.bestdesicooking.com/2008/03/lamb-brain-masala-bheja-masala/

    Good luck and good health to you.

Thanks Rawzi,

I was busy in an exam. I will visit both links and try to get ideas from them. Thanks a lot once again, it seems to be a practical compromise to me according to my situation.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2011, 06:32:09 am »
FYI to those talking about eating canned fish: canned fish is cooked to death. I eat some myself, but just thought I'd let you know so you maybe can be spared a cursing by Tyler or some other purist. Interestingly, canned fish is tasting less and less palatable to me the longer I eat mostly raw. It's too bad, because I liked the idea of getting some natural animal calcium from the soft bones.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2011, 03:32:40 pm »
FYI to those talking about eating canned fish: canned fish is cooked to death. I eat some myself, but just thought I'd let you know so you maybe can be spared a cursing by Tyler or some other purist. Interestingly, canned fish is tasting less and less palatable to me the longer I eat mostly raw. It's too bad, because I liked the idea of getting some natural animal calcium from the soft bones.
Stop calling me a purist as that claim is childish and untrue. I do occasionally eat cooked food for social reasons, for example.
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" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2011, 05:42:32 am »
Well, if you're not purist then I suppose no one is. And cut the "childish" crap. You seem to make such remarks whenever someone says or does something you don't like. It wasn't meant as some sort of insult or whatever you imagined. It was a friendly warning based on your responses to similar past posts. Your tolerance of imperfect dietary behavior and discussion seems to extend mainly to yourself. At any rate, I'd rather you vent on me than other unfortunate souls. I'm used to it and can take a beating for a good purpose. I wear the stripes on my back from your past whippings as marks of honor. LOL You're so skilled at the dismal task, that I wouldn't be surprised if you have an ancestor in your past who was a flayer or hangman at Tyburn. ;)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 06:14:22 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline raw-al

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2011, 09:58:46 pm »
FYI to those talking about eating canned fish: canned fish is cooked to death. I eat some myself, but just thought I'd let you know so you maybe can be spared a cursing by Tyler or some other purist. Interestingly, canned fish is tasting less and less palatable to me the longer I eat mostly raw. It's too bad, because I liked the idea of getting some natural animal calcium from the soft bones.
Every so often I buy canned sardines and eat it with great relish with the excuse that it is "supposed to be good for you" ;D

Then the next day I spend suffering with the effect that the over cooked, over flavoured, garbage has on me. Then I take Triphala to clean the trash out.
Cheers
Al

Offline klowcarb

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2011, 01:18:41 am »
FYI to those talking about eating canned fish: canned fish is cooked to death. I eat some myself, but just thought I'd let you know so you maybe can be spared a cursing by Tyler or some other purist. Interestingly, canned fish is tasting less and less palatable to me the longer I eat mostly raw. It's too bad, because I liked the idea of getting some natural animal calcium from the soft bones.

Mackerel is so meaty and delicious. That and shrimp are my only seafood, but I love them.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Omega-6: significant at what point?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2011, 08:14:00 am »
[
At moment I am not old enough to get job and move out.

But for sure one day I will be old enough and will have a job. ..... but what will happen then?

Once I am having good job, and I will move out and my Parents will also move out with me to my new home  ;D.

In our culture children stay with parents & when they are grown up then parents stay with their children.


[/quote]

Zaidi who gets to make the dietary decisions for the household? Are you male or female? When you get a job will you be able to determine what is eaten? Is it a democracy where everyone decides together or does the person who brings in the money determine or the person who is in charge of the kitchen determine the dishes? What role will you play when you are older?

One of the things that you will likely be able to get is fresh fruit. That is socially acceptable in most societies. Then in Germany you can eat quark for sure. It's a German dairy dish and perhaps if you are living in Germany the family would be ok with trying a traditional German dish and it is made traditionally with raw milk (of course that's not paleo but is better than most things). Is the family open to eating German dishes and willing to experiment with those? How about eggs? One of the things you might be able to do is just ask that you eat your eggs raw when others get theirs cooked? Maybe ask to eat the meals before they are cooked? Would it be socially acceptable for you to eat the same thing just to do it before it goes in the stove?

I can see you asking politely for some eggs, some fruit and filling up on those as snacks and eating the group food in smaller servings.

That's quite a challenge - but I'm sure you will figure out a way to get around the social limitations eventually even if you have to be sneaky.

 

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