Author Topic: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat  (Read 48748 times)

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Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat
« Reply #150 on: October 28, 2011, 06:06:10 am »
The Mongolians plundered grain and, most notably, the Mongol´s life style did not become prevalent at all. On the contrary, Europeans still eat grain and Mongols are more and more adopting the Western way of life including a western diet.
Incorrect, the Mongolian diet is and always has been overwhelmingly grain-free:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_cuisine

As for the Mongolian lifestyle mention, that is really to do with the conflict between settled peoples and nomadic tribes, nothing to do with diet per se. I mean, arctic explorers a 100 years ago did fine on pemmican-heavy diets, needing no grains.
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Nevertheless, most people in the world, including the Egyptians, are still eating grain-heavy diets without suffering from deficiencies which prevent reproduction.
Like I said before, this is highly questionable given that people in the West are now experiencing dramatic drops in sperm-levels and loss of fertility. Those in developing nations have diets which are "less worse" than Western diets, because of incorporating more natural and more raw foods then the latter, so have fewer problems in this regard.


[/quote]
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat
« Reply #151 on: October 28, 2011, 07:57:33 am »
...in Miles' case, I was just trying to adopt his own tactics/behaviour. As for the devil reference, thanks - I often like to play the role of devil's advocate in certain discussions.
So I see!  >D

What are the ingredients of traditional Mongolian khuushuur/hushuur and buuz?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 09:21:10 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat
« Reply #152 on: October 28, 2011, 02:35:55 pm »
So I see!  >D

What are the ingredients of traditional Mongolian khuushuur/hushuur and buuz?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khuushuur

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buuz

Yes, I see what you mean, there is also dough involved in some cases. But the mainstay of the diet is still meats.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat
« Reply #153 on: October 28, 2011, 07:24:50 pm »
Mainstay yes, but they also have long eaten wheat and I have seen historians make the same point as Hanna about Mongols plundering the grain of other societies (along with horses, cattle, gold and women, of course) and recently adopting more and more the bad habits of modern Westerners, so unless you have counter evidence, then she seems to have the balance of the evidence on her side, sad as it may be.  -[

On the other hand, recent evidence has shown that the grain-eating ancient Egyptians suffered nutritional deficiencies. Nutritional deficiencies usually do not prevent reproduction. On the contrary, agrarian societies tend to have BOTH higher rates of deficiencies AND higher rates of reproduction than hunter-gatherer societies. High levels of reproduction are a sign of ill health, not good health and less spacing between births means less time for mothers to build up nutrient levels for the next child. It's one of the curses of civilization, not evidence of beneficial adaptation.

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The tendency to put on weight was to have another effect on the living conditions of Neolithic peoples. In spite of a much shorter life span, population densities grew dramatically. As women must have a certain minimum percentage of body fat to ovulate, the tendency of agricultural people to become fat resulted in women becoming pregnant at an earlier age and becoming pregnant again much sooner after giving birth. Studies of contemporary female hunter-gatherers have shown them to reach first menstruation several years later than agricultural women. Hunter-gatherer women averaged four years between births versus eleven months for agricultural women. [There is even a colloquial term for this phenomenon of getting pregnant twice in less than twelve months: "Irish twins."] As it was no longer necessary to carry infants from place to place, the natural constraints on family size experienced by nomadic hunter-gatherers were no longer in effect.

Obviously, greater populations required larger crop yields for sustenance. Methods of agricultural intensification such as the plow and irrigation were soon invented to boost yields. As these more intensive methods accelerated the exhaustion of the topsoil and populations continued to grow, new lands for cultivation had to be found. The process of colonization continued until recent history, until the civilized world became agricultural, polluted, overpopulated, and overweight.

--Ray Audette, NeanderThin
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline jessica

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Re: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat
« Reply #154 on: October 28, 2011, 10:26:40 pm »
will you all ever tire of the same discussion?    -X

Offline Iguana

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Re: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat
« Reply #155 on: October 28, 2011, 10:40:56 pm »
Good question, Jessica !  ;D  :P
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Hanna

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Re: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat
« Reply #156 on: October 31, 2011, 11:20:51 pm »
Quote
Our culture is based on grain, because it is storable and has minimum space requirements, which is important if you have to feed (masses of) workers, establish labor division, live in cities etc. Furthermore, grain provides almost all nutrition needed, including protein.
The only benefit re grains was its longer shelf-life and mass production possibilities.

Well, that´s a huge benefit! I read that wheat can be stored almost indefinitely or at least 15 to 20 years (barley more than 10 years) and even keeps its germination ability during this period. This reminded me of the bible story about Joseph in Egypt (Pharao dreaming of lean cows eating fat cows; the seven years of plenty followed by seven years of famine; the successful prevention of famine in Egypt by storing grain):

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The Biblical story of Joseph in Egypt, storing grain in “fat” years against the “lean” that might follow, exemplifies probably the most common method of famine prevention in antiquity and medieval times. The rulers of the Inca Empire guarded against famine by storage and by construction of irrigation canals. (...)
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Famine.aspx

However, Joseph´s grandfather still lived 180 years, Joseph´s father 147 years, Joseph only 110 years...

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat
« Reply #157 on: November 01, 2011, 12:13:40 am »
Biblical lifespans can hardly be trusted to be accurate! I mean, Methuselah was supposed to be 969 years old at the time of his death! 
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat
« Reply #158 on: November 01, 2011, 10:01:41 am »
I'm 952 years old, so I'm nearly there, and I'll make it too, if the gol durn yuppies in my neighborhood don't give me a heart attack first. ;)  :P
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: Daniel Vitalis on cooked meat
« Reply #159 on: November 01, 2011, 09:19:30 pm »
Biblical lifespans can hardly be trusted to be accurate! I mean, Methuselah was supposed to be 969 years old at the time of his death! 

Yeah, that's wonderful. Normal people say that we can't live without cooking.

Are we still too normal?

Löwenherz

 

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