Author Topic: Internet freedom/censoring  (Read 4307 times)

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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2012, 04:00:21 am »
It's coming.  Some version of SOPA or PIPA will almost certainly pass this year.  The question is, what version?  And how will it be enforced?

The way SOPA reads now, this forum could get shut down (without a warrant or warning) if someone posts a link to copyrighted work here, without the copyright owner's permission.

If that ever happened, we would have to stop allowing new members to post without a long and very thorough vetting process.

More specifically, this forum could be blocked from being viewed by any/all IP addresses located within the US, if SOPA passes, and someone accuses us of linking to or posting copyrighted material without permission.

Of course Big Pharma would try to infiltrate and post/link such material to get us shut down. 

I'm just wondering what standard of proof would have to be offered that such material had been posted or linked to.  Maybe practically none.

It's about to get like Nazi Germany in the US, if this happens.  I would seriously consider moving overseas, if it did.  Fuck the US, if Congress passes that.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 04:05:41 am by cherimoya_kid »

CitrusHigh

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2012, 04:58:02 am »
Right, something will likely pass if we don't fight it tooth and nail, so it is a good idea to start working on preventative and circumnavigative measures right now... to that end I've found this link but hopefully more solutions will present themselves. Maybe just like we have private food clubs we'll have to have private server/website/etc clubs...

http://howto.cnet.com/8301-11310_39-57359004-285/how-to-bypass-sopa-blocking-to-reach-sites-directly/

The article is just slightly dated but the plug-in is still relevant.

Offline TylerDurden

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2012, 06:10:18 am »
We've already seen really dodgy tactics used by the government which they use if they can't get their way in the normal legal way. I'm very worried.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline zbr5

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2012, 06:55:27 am »
It is hot topic in Poland now. Few days ago hardly anyone knew about ACTA, now everybody talks about it.
Poland is about to sign it up, so as form of protest, most of .gov website have been hacked.
Facebook groups "stop acta" grew from few to thousands of members.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/polish-government-websites-face-apparent-attack-by-internet-group-anonymous/2012/01/22/gIQAF1GEIQ_story.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16686265

Offline zbr5

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 06:59:00 am »
And the funny thing was that goverment's spokeperson, mr Pawel Gras, initially did not want to admit all gov were just hacked so he explained that they were down because of "very high interest and traffic". As if Poles have no other job to do than to visit goverment websites at 4:00 in the night.

In response, hackers took down personal website of the very same spokeperson - pawelgras.pl :)

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2012, 11:38:38 am »
I don't have a problem with trying to reduce piracy....I'm just worried that a website like ours will end up being targeted, using this law as a way to take us down.  Not just our site, either.  ANY kind of alternative information site could potentially be targeted.  Even a non-discussion site, that only has articles, could be hacked to make it look like they have unauthorized copyrighted info.

It's going to be really fucking lame if we end up having to use cheats to get around the government firewall like the Chinese do.  It will be even less acceptable if getting around the firewall (or helping people get around it, or telling them how to) becomes illegal and people get prosecuted and jailed for it.

I am not cool with that.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2012, 11:40:10 am »
And the annoying part is that the people who are most angry about this are exactly the wrong generation to stop it.  The young pro-technology people aren't doing this. It's all the stupid technology-challenged old people who are doing this.  They're the ones making the laws, and trying to force this law through.  They are the congressmen, they are the CEOs of record/movie companies, they are the stockholders, etc.. 

And you know what?  Fuck them.

CitrusHigh

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2012, 12:16:21 pm »
I don't have a problem with trying to reduce piracy

This is the kind of crusty thinking that has brought us this sort of filth. How is it piracy using your own property to make copies? Ever heard of property rights? There is no room for copyright in a consistent philosophy of private property rights. This is authoritarian thinking and you will have called it upon yourself when you no longer have the freedom to visit the websites you wish, or post the content you wish. See "Against Intellectual Property" by Stephan Kinsella for the reasons why.

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2012, 03:28:10 pm »
So you think no one should ever be able to patent or copyright anything, ever?

CitrusHigh

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2012, 11:51:33 pm »
No, I believe it flies in the face of a sound theory of private property rights (which is a farce in this country anyway) here is the link to the aforementioned audiobook that will give reasons why...

http://www.learnoutloud.com/Free-Audio-Video/Education-and-Professional/Law/Against-Intellectual-Property/44587#plink

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2012, 02:49:51 am »
The internet is freedom and unlimited potential for sharing all ideas and changing the status quo. I have been wondering how long it would take for it to be made useless to really change the world for the better.

When you can go on-line and learn for instance how to heal cancer naturally so easily, let alone learn what the real deal is in general, I figured that it wouldn't be long until they figured out a way to block it.

I do not doubt that this forum will be closed if it can be. It's too powerful of an idea.  Anything that can release people from slavery and can give people the idea to stop giving away their money and power to those who have a stake in keeping them in ignorance will be attacked and taken down if not fully protected.

I sure hope you good moderators can find a way to fight the tide for as long as you can.

I've seen so many basic freedoms disintegrate. I've watched people just give them up. Cherimoya - I sure do hope the young ones can get up and fight!

I hope that like the hackers in Poland that hackers around the world can build a big enough protest. Free internet - or no internet. I hope they can do it. The free internet is one of our last hopes.

Offline zbr5

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2012, 03:31:45 am »
Polish hackers were only local part of American (or global) formation "Annonymous" so I hope resistance will spread. It started in Austria today as far as I know!

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2012, 03:57:01 am »
No, I believe it flies in the face of a sound theory of private property rights...

So you don't have any favorite authors that you think deserve to be paid for their work?

CitrusHigh

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Re: Internet freedom/censoring
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2012, 04:52:47 am »
That is a false induction. If Aajonus for example wants to print up books or press dvd's (his own property) or have a publishing company do it on his behalf, and then sell me that book or dvd, that is great, and then I own that dvd or that book and can do whatever the hell I please with it, including copying it and selling those copies, provided I don't violate someone else' physical property rights in the process. This is where people want to cry 'foul!', but do you really think there aren't enough intelligent and conscientious people out there that if they find the product to be useful and worthy, that they're not going to send some money to Aajonus if they're financially capable? There are plenty of people out there who see money as no object and who want to see that author produce more work and thusly will send that person money. Perhaps you won't see pop stars making zillions of dollars like britney spears, but then again, maybe you will. Can you imagine the climate of creativity that would be promoted by people having to produce something truly worthy of competing for voluntary dollars? Intellectual property stymies this creativity. When I'm filthy rich (in the next couple years) you can bet lots of that money will be going to aajonus, lots of it to jon young, lots to my favorite local musicians and lots of it to my favorite local artists, because I believe that it will be a net benefit to the world if these people are able to make a living continuing to do what they do. And there are plenty of people of like mind out there.

But the most important reason for not supporting intellectual property rights (if we are to pretend to have property rights at all) is that it gives other people power over my property. What the fuck do you mean I can't copy this song using my computer and my cd/dvd/mp3/external hard drive, etc. What do you mean I can't copy this page of the book I purchased using MY copy machine and MY paper and MY ink. That is bullshit. And if people were truly taught how to think instead of simply regurgitate what they've been brainwashed with since birth, then that would be so obvious that we wouldn't even be here having this discussion.

I absolutely think that if a work merits it (based on what the reader/listener/viewer thinks) then they will pay, if they can. Every sunday morning when I go to my local cafe to listen to new orleans style live jazz, I put money in the tip jar, not because I feel obligated (these guys are getting paid just to be there and play) but because I support what they do, want to encourage it, and want to see them come back next week. However I don't go to that same cafe when there is a cover for the band, because I don't know how much of that cover goes to the band and I also don't feel it is a reasonable price (unless it is a band I really want to see in which case I DO pay the price).

I don't necessarily even believe in property rights, I truly believe 'everything is permissible' as I told Tyler recently, but if that is what we're going to agree to pretend, then let's have it be consistent and sound, not making arbitrary exceptions. Our legal system is a farce also. For a legal code to become so complicated that the common person can't understand it without becoming an attorney themselves, is insanity. Not to mention the fact that we are treated in court In Rem (as things) instead of In Personam (as a person). Don't believe me? look on your drivers license, is it all caps or only first letter caps? It's all caps because you are considered to be a government employee instead of the other way around.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2012, 05:08:36 am by CitrusHigh »

Offline raw-al

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