Author Topic: neurological pathways  (Read 6539 times)

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Offline Wattlebird

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neurological pathways
« on: February 16, 2012, 08:49:30 am »
I have now read through many of the posts on this particular forum regarding 'Instinctive Nutrition'.
Although the posters here no doubt represent just a small total of overall people around the world who eat this way, it still seems that the number of true 'Instinctive Eaters' as a percentage of population is miniscule.
On this forum it appears that there are perhaps a handful or so that eat 'instinctively'.
Then there are others who seem open to the theory but it has not accorded into practice, there are the doubters and disbelievers, and those that cannot get a handle on the concept at all.
Many (if one uses this forum as a guide) seem to have tried but it has not solidified with any success into day in, day out, 'instinctive' practice.
This appears - in a number of cases  - not for any lack of effort, dedication, resolve or learning.
I have a theory that 'instinctive eating' is dependent on brain wiring pathways, on organism neurology, and so it is not for deficiency in desire that 'it' doesn't occur with some folk (that's not to say it can't occur), but rather that the neurological pathways are not 'thus' configured.
As I do not come to 'Instinctive Eating' from the usual Instincto/Anopsology teachings (see Kindred Spirits post) I would be interested to hear whether organism neurology and the implications to 'Instinctive Eating' has been documented by GCB, Iguana, or others.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2012, 12:43:36 pm by Wattlebird »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2012, 12:43:07 pm »
Most Instinctos who were healthy when they started the diet are very intelligent people, very strong-willed, very independent, and open-minded.  Either that, or they were very sick, and got lucky and found the raw food diet while searching for a way to heal themselves.

Offline Wattlebird

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2012, 04:53:00 pm »
Most Instinctos who were healthy when they started the diet are very intelligent people, very strong-willed, very independent, and open-minded.  Either that, or they were very sick, and got lucky and found the raw food diet while searching for a way to heal themselves.

Thanks Cherimoya_Kid
a circular debate can be had whether such traits are a background basis for an 'Instincto,' or whether these traits are reflective of certain neurological possibilities that can come to the fore with some people.

I have noticed however with meditators - to illustrate a possible correlation - that folk have different aims from the practice.
Some want to be less stressed to cope with the hurly burly of life, some want a bit more calm and time out.
Then, there are others who desire to lay it all on the line:  want to become a living Buddha, or transcend suffering or illness.
Generally, these folks focus all their energies on the practice and their life becomes devoted and centred around the practice and other things fall into secondary status.
It is from these people that some miraculous possibilities occasionally come to pass and the big breakthrough occurs.
And I guess a comparison could be made with very sick individuals who lay it all on the line and immerse themselves completely in the practice of Instinctive Nutrition.
It does seem to me that there is some type of re-wiring that occurs because Instinctive Eating over-rides the usual automatic thought processes for eating, in favour of direct sensory signals.
Certainly in my case, changes that took place to the body included variations in how particular nerve plexi sites functioned.
Kind wishes, J




Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2012, 04:19:49 am »
Thanks Cherimoya_Kid
a circular debate can be had whether such traits are a background basis for an 'Instincto,' or whether these traits are reflective of certain neurological possibilities that can come to the fore with some people.



No, I'd say you pretty much have to have those traits BEFORE you start.  The diet might increase them, but you have to already have them. The only other possibilities are sick people who tried the diet out of desperation, or people who were raised on the diet, like GCB's children.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 05:16:12 am by TylerDurden »

Offline Wattlebird

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2012, 06:02:25 am »
Hi Cherimoya-Kid
Yes, sorry I did not word that particular sentence well.
What I am trying to get at, is that for some people despite having those traits you describe, they are still not able to eat instinctively with any success because the direct sensory signals are not readily noticed or able to be differentiated from the automatic thought processes that generally accompany taste and smell (perhaps because the neural pathways are not configured appropriately)
Interestingly, with meditation discipline (especially mindfulness, and this is one activity that someone dedicated to the on-going, day in, day out, practice of Instinctive Eating would be doing), the undertaking increases pressure of a certain type on the organism. And in so doing - it appears - some pathways in the neurological system change in response.
And this change then forges the breakthrough, which in the case of Instinctive Eating, may include clearer awareness of the direct sensory signals.
Kind wishes, J
« Last Edit: February 17, 2012, 09:50:52 am by Wattlebird »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2012, 12:20:14 pm »
Hi Cherimoya-Kid
Yes, sorry I did not word that particular sentence well.
What I am trying to get at, is that for some people despite having those traits you describe, they are still not able to eat instinctively with any success because the direct sensory signals are not readily noticed or able to be differentiated from the automatic thought processes that generally accompany taste and smell (perhaps because the neural pathways are not configured appropriately)
Interestingly, with meditation discipline (especially mindfulness, and this is one activity that someone dedicated to the on-going, day in, day out, practice of Instinctive Eating would be doing), the undertaking increases pressure of a certain type on the organism. And in so doing - it appears - some pathways in the neurological system change in response.
And this change then forges the breakthrough, which in the case of Instinctive Eating, may include clearer awareness of the direct sensory signals.
Kind wishes, J


OK, I see what you mean.

I definitely had the tendency to eat simply when I was younger.  I'd eat a single food until a taste change. 

Offline Iguana

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2012, 04:52:37 am »
 

On this forum it appears that there are perhaps a handful or so that eat 'instinctively'.
Then there are others who seem open to the theory but it has not accorded into practice, there are the doubters and disbelievers, and those that cannot get a handle on the concept at all.
Many (if one uses this forum as a guide) seem to have tried but it has not solidified with any success into day in, day out, 'instinctive' practice.
This appears - in a number of cases  - not for any lack of effort, dedication, resolve or learning.
I have a theory that 'instinctive eating' is dependent on brain wiring pathways, on organism neurology, and so it is not for deficiency in desire that 'it' doesn't occur with some folk (that's not to say it can't occur), but rather that the neurological pathways are not 'thus' configured.
As I do not come to 'Instinctive Eating' from the usual Instincto/Anopsology teachings (see Kindred Spirits post) I would be interested to hear whether organism neurology and the implications to 'Instinctive Eating' has been documented by GCB, Iguana, or others.

Not by me and I’m not sure whether GCB has investigated on that matter. He did a lot of research and thinking about psychological difficulties and pressure of the subconscious but I never read anything concerning organism neurology.

Good points, anyway!  8)
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Wattlebird

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2012, 06:23:59 am »
Not by me and I’m not sure whether GCB has investigated on that matter. He did a lot of research and thinking about psychological difficulties and pressure of the subconscious but I never read anything concerning organism neurology.

Good points, anyway!  8)

Hi Iguana
I recall some years back, Indian mystic UG Krishnamurti caused a stir in spiritual circles when he claimed his 'enlightenment' was  neuro-biological, which he called 'a natural state'.
He likened this 'state' to falling back into a primordial way of functioning whereby senses operate quite directly in response to stimulii, without interference of thought (unless needed).
He explained that (to someone not functioning this way) past experience, culture, society, religious beliefs and so on, are inextricably tied-in with sense, and so these influences automatically colour what one sees, feels, hears (and of course tastes and smells.)
Many shamans (some even without the benefit of hallucinogenic substances) also perceive the world quite differently than what is generally thought to be 'normal'.
Some shamans who specialise in healing plants and foods explain that the foods 'talk' to them, and this 'talking' may come in the form of visions, but also direct vibratory input from the plants as they 'talk' to the shaman (not unlike an Instinctive Eater via smell and taste) as to what is palatable and beneficial to eat at a time, and what is not.
Like the example of UG Krishnamurti and some Shamans, there is a growing number of scientific thinkers who believe that neural pathways and configurations are responsible for these 'abilities'.
For what its worth, in light of these examples and my own experience, I think there is a good case to me made for organism wiring as a reason of explaining why some are able to eat 'instinctively'.
Now why that happens to one person and not another is another question, but it could be that by consistenly practicing with rigour and discipline, that the appropriate neural pathways adapt in response.
Enough of my rambling, thanks for the opportunity
Kind wishes, J
« Last Edit: February 20, 2012, 10:08:37 am by Wattlebird »

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2012, 08:42:37 am »
Not by me and I’m not sure whether GCB has investigated on that matter. He did a lot of research and thinking about psychological difficulties and pressure of the subconscious but I never read anything concerning organism neurology.




In your experience (or GCB's, if you choose to ask him), are an unusually large number of Instinctos the type of people who would eat a single food until a taste change when they were children?  I know I was.

Offline Iguana

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 05:31:19 am »
I fail to see how it could be so for the ones raised on cooked food.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Iguana

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2012, 05:44:40 am »
 
Hi Iguana
I recall some years back, Indian mystic UG Krishnamurti caused a stir in spiritual circles when he claimed his 'enlightenment' was  neuro-biological, which he called 'a natural state'.
He likened this 'state' to falling back into a primordial way of functioning whereby senses operate quite directly in response to stimulii, without interference of thought (unless needed).
He explained that (to someone not functioning this way) past experience, culture, society, religious beliefs and so on, are inextricably tied-in with sense, and so these influences automatically colour what one sees, feels, hears (and of course tastes and smells.)
Many shamans (some even without the benefit of hallucinogenic substances) also perceive the world quite differently than what is generally thought to be 'normal'.
Some shamans who specialise in healing plants and foods explain that the foods 'talk' to them, and this 'talking' may come in the form of visions, but also direct vibratory input from the plants as they 'talk' to the shaman (not unlike an Instinctive Eater via smell and taste) as to what is palatable and beneficial to eat at a time, and what is not. (…)
Yes, I see what you mean. Very interesting. I remember Krishnamurti as the philosopher who blamed nationalisms and beliefs as the main source of clashes between humans and wars, wasn’t he? Shamanism may well be a way to find again the contact with the paranormal awareness that was very likely lost with the Neolithic way of life and Neolithic nutrition. 
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline Wattlebird

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Re: neurological pathways
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2012, 06:33:12 am »
Yes, I see what you mean. Very interesting. I remember Krishnamurti as the philosopher who blamed nationalisms and beliefs as the main source of clashes between humans and wars, wasn’t he? Shamanism may well be a way to find again the contact with the paranormal awareness that was very likely lost with the Neolithic way of life and Neolithic nutrition. 

Hi Iguana
there were two Indian mystics named Krishnamurti: the milder one (J) who is generally the better known of the two and would be the one speaking out on wars, and the fire breathing one (UG), who spoke at length about the inherent intelligence of the body and how mind establishes all manner of imaginary problems.
Both interesting individuals.

Yes agreed, our increasing dis-connect from nature and captivation with many modern beliefs, mean that for many people Shamanism is nonsensical.
Fortunately there are a few isolated individuals who have these 'primitive' abilities and can utilise them to the benefit of others.
And likewise, those individuals like your self who have (however) 'discovered' instinctive eating and are able to assist those, for which the idea resonates.
And so the 'primitive' links to the past remain alive.
Kind wishes, J

« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 07:49:55 am by Wattlebird »

 

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