Author Topic: Can we get some clarity on the Admins' theory of disease please?  (Read 4222 times)

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CitrusHigh

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It would be really great if the admin/mods of this group could put up a sticky of what their theory of disease is. I've heard them on several occasions, say that they don't want to get this or that microbe or parasite. Like rabies or whatever. Or insinuate that it would be detrimental to contract such 'pathogens'.

In my personal theory of disease I'm not afraid of parasites, phages, bacteria or fungi, so long as I have access to clean plant and animal foods, amenable to my genetic makeup and that fit the necessary parameters (Plants are 'organic' and the animals aren't uptaking excessive toxins, are on their natural diet and are living relatively stress free),  and so long as I'm not uptaking excessive toxins, and not experiencing excessive stress, I will not experience disease. I may be forgetting some elements here, but this is what I can pull from the top of my head presently. That means that I'm ok with being exposed to any microbe in naturally occurring populations. The only caveat to this would be lab created life-forms and phages that are unnatural, I don't know where they fit in.

The above to me, seems the only real consistent theory, and I think is basically that of Aajonus' too unless I'm mistaken.

Would love systematic and organized input from everyone, but especially the powers that be around here.

If you've been eating R(V)AF for a year or more, please share your thoughts and beliefs.

Offline aLptHW4k4y

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Re: Can we get some clarity on the Admins' theory of disease please?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 05:37:48 am »
Have you studied some biology? So you say little bad guys can't hurt you, if it's all natural?

What about big bad guys? Lions? Snake poison?
Your theory doesn't sound very consistent to me, it works in some cases but very obviously not in others.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Can we get some clarity on the Admins' theory of disease please?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2012, 07:15:57 am »
My understanding of disease comes from successful healing people hands on.

Diseases have various causes.  Sometimes a combination of those various causes.

Causes:

- malnutrition / wrong nutrition / dehydration

- pollution / air / food / water / radiation

- parasite / germ

- injury / external or internal

- emotional / stress / belief / traumatic experiences

- drug induced / pharmaceutical / western medicine caused

He who knows how to cure them gets a shot at defining them.

Lots of us had cured ourselves and others so we can come up with theories for specific diseases we had overcome or cured on other people.
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CitrusHigh

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Re: Can we get some clarity on the Admins' theory of disease please?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 09:25:09 am »
Have you studied some biology? So you say little bad guys can't hurt you, if it's all natural?

What about big bad guys? Lions? Snake poison?
Your theory doesn't sound very consistent to me, it works in some cases but very obviously not in others.

lol thanks

Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Can we get some clarity on the Admins' theory of disease please?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 01:13:00 pm »
I'm somewhere in between "all infectious diseases are to be avoided" and "all infectious diseases will help my immune system to be more healthy".

I recognize that diseases often help you detox, but I also recognize they sometimes kill you.  It's a complex question.

Offline sabertooth

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Re: Can we get some clarity on the Admins' theory of disease please?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2012, 05:16:24 pm »
There was a man named Antone Bechamp, who had developed a very similar view of disease, over a hundred years ago( he was germ thoeries original denier). His work was plagiarized and twisted by Louis Pasteur whom he had this same dispute with over Germ theory. Pasture claimed that it was the microbes themselves that caused disease, and although all of Pastures experiments with sterilized foods ended up making the animals either sick or dead, his germ theory won the acceptance of the scientific community(We are still suffering from these wrong conclusions today).

Bechamps View of disease differed in that he basically believed that bacteria or other pathogens could not invade a healthy host and create disease on their own. Its the law of the terrain. Environmental factors are what makes one vulnerable to pathogenic infection.

There of course is a middle ground between the two views that the truth of the matter is most likely to be found. Pasture did do the world a service by encouraging surgeons to wash their hands. Open wounds do represent a environment which makes one prone to invasion, and sterilizing wounds and surgical implements was revolutionary in saving lives.

Its just that he went wrong when he tried to apply the same principal to food. Sterilization of food through pasteurization seemed logical if you believe in germ theory, but at the time they just didn't know that the gut was designed to coexist and flourish with ingested microbes. When the integrity of the bodies environment is optimal, bacteria should not pose a health risk, and we now know that bacteria in their proper balance has a beneficial effect on the bodies ecology.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 05:24:00 pm by sabertooth »
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CitrusHigh

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Re: Can we get some clarity on the Admins' theory of disease please?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2012, 10:10:19 pm »
I'm somewhere in between "all infectious diseases are to be avoided" and "all infectious diseases will help my immune system to be more healthy".

I recognize that diseases often help you detox, but I also recognize they sometimes kill you.  It's a complex question.

Right, but it's at the foundation of this way of eating, this lifestyle, so why is there not a section dedicated to this in the newbie area. Is it because you don't really have any idea or because any claims you make would be totally arbitrary and it's better to just avoid that awkwardness in the first place?

Sabertooth, thanks I'm familiar with bechamp and that dickface pasteur of course. What I'm interested in here, is what you and other members who eat this way tell people when they ask you about microbes like ebola zaire, rabies, bubonic plague, trichina, etc. Aajonus thinks they're all the bees kness (the naturally occurring ones), and I tend to agree. I've never met a microbe I didn't like, and that is 4 years of eating some of the 'riskiest' foods I can get.

I want the admin to say something concrete, or provide some of their beloved scientific data to support their viewpoints.

I feel like the 'all microbes beneficial' theory is consistent because it has been borne out in my own experience, and I haven't seen good evidence to the contrary.

Also if the admins are going to ignore such a key component of this way of eating, that is very suspicious.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Can we get some clarity on the Admins' theory of disease please?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2012, 11:39:58 pm »
Quote
I want the admin to say something concrete, or provide some of their beloved scientific data to support their viewpoints.

...

Also if the admins are going to ignore such a key component of this way of eating, that is very suspicious.

This tone of "questioning" I take as very disrespectful when the opinions of "global moderators" and other moderators are voiced out on this aspect in many places in this forum.

Just like you, global moderators and moderators and other members have not been shy to voice out their opinions and lengthy discussions do come out.  You are itching at something, or seem impatient at something... what it is, I don't know.  You tell us rather than accusative "questions."

This tone of "questioning" also accuses "admins" aka global moderators as know it all GURUs when in many cases, global moderators do not want to be seen as gurus... but rather to facilitate the entire open minded discussion of people's successes so people can form their own opinions.

This entire tone of the start of this thread, the title is very disrespectful to the wishes and hopes of global moderators for open discussions for the broad scope of raw paleo diets.

Global moderators and other senior members or resource speakers are from various back grounds and nationalities.

The thread starter needs a LOT more diligence in reading the various opinions made in this forum, not just by the global moderators... as many of us do not consider ourselves as gods or gurus nor dictators of what and how raw paleo dieters should think.

This forum is not intended to be a dictatorial mouthpiece for the "global moderators" but as a place of sharing ideas, especially sharing things that have WORKED for you in your own experience so you have something to share with others.

I for one have little respect for "scientific data" when most of that crap was funded by special interests to get a favorable result to backup a product or procedure or paradigm they seek to make profits from.

My scientific data is... it works for me, it works for my family, it works for the friends and people I heal.  I'm just one global moderator. 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2012, 11:52:44 pm by goodsamaritan »
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Offline cherimoya_kid

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Re: Can we get some clarity on the Admins' theory of disease please?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2012, 03:51:44 am »
as many of us do not consider ourselves as gods or gurus nor dictators of what and how raw paleo dieters should think.


Exactly.  Most of the mods here, especially Tyler Durden, are actually pretty ANTI-guru. We have worked very hard, in most cases, to find what works.  We care less about theories, and more about what works.  We figure out what works, and let the theories arise naturally, over time...and fall naturally, too, as they nearly always do.

Fact trumps theory.  No guru knows it all.  None of us claim to know it all, and we tend to end up banning people who DO claim they know it all.

 

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