Author Topic: 801010 and skin health  (Read 20995 times)

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Offline Löwenherz

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801010 and skin health
« on: March 15, 2012, 04:31:46 am »
Here is a video with Douglas Graham, long-term LOW FAT raw vegan, author of the book 801010 diet.

At 3:00 min you can see the skin of his face and throat in a close-up view. It's really shocking:

Hardest Push-Up On the Planet

I have never seen an 58 year "young" man with so heavily DESTROYED skin. Never! Such videos are a good reminder to me to avoid high amounts of fruit sugar. I can still see some skin damage in my face from high fruit consumption in the past.

I have the feeling that fruit sugar becomes more and more destructive with every year of age. That's very devious, isn't it? Because all young people look really good when they start eating tons of fruit.

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« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 04:37:26 am by Löwenherz »

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2012, 04:37:10 am »
And here is Lou Corona, a long-term HIGH FAT raw vegan at age 60, looking much healthier than Doug Graham:

Lou Corona - Largest Farmer's Market in Central America with The Raw Food Doctor Dr. Ali Amiri

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Offline spitfiredd1

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2012, 04:55:31 am »
Honestly the better looking raw vegans usually are eating more fat.  Look at Harley aka Durianrider, he's 33 and in the last year he's look like he has aged quite a bit as well.
Other forums I frequent:
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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2012, 04:58:46 am »
Honestly the better looking raw vegans usually are eating more fat.  Look at Harley aka Durianrider, he's 33 and in the last year he's look like he has aged quite a bit as well.

Yes, I agree. Are you sure that he is only 33 years old?

Big problems and visible damage caused by fruit sugar seem to start at age 35 - 40 in most raw foodists.

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« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 05:08:01 am by Löwenherz »

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2012, 05:04:58 am »
Here is another high fat raw foodist with healthy skin at age 42 (?):

2012 David Wolfe on Aztec Chocolate Cacao Raw Foods Mexico
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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2012, 05:07:15 am »
Though, as far as I know David Wolfe is not a raw vegan any more but a very good sales man!

In this video he shows a low sugar "energy elixir", LOL:

David Wolfe Reveals Energy Elixir Recipe!
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Offline jessica

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2012, 06:18:56 am »
yeah the 58 year old man looks about 80, i honestly think eating too many fruits pull minerals from the body if you are not eating sufficient proteins, fats and greens, lots of fruity veggies and vegans are pale and have thin hair and skin

Offline spitfiredd1

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2012, 08:07:52 am »
In his latest video durianrider actually addresses the fact that he looks aged, and chalks it up to the fact that he's an 'athlete' because some famous australian marathon runner is thin and looks aged as well.  Not a good excuse imo if you're trying to be the model of health and wellbeing for the 811rv diet.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 04:51:25 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2012, 08:58:31 am »
Yeah, if you compare durianrider's photos before he went raw vegan to know, it's shocking how much he has deteriorated. He's looking more and more like a skinny, pale old woman. Before he went raw vegan, he looked like a macho, muscled youth with a tan.

Lou Corona, in contrast, is one of the healthiest looking vegans or vegetarians I've seen. No doubt Tyler would attribute that to cosmetic procedures, Photoshopping, etc., but I suspect that much of it is real. In addition to Corona's healthy-looking skin, he appears to be much happier than the average vegan we see in videos (like DR), he has bright white eyes and teeth (though the teeth could have been treated), a strong, broad, handsome face and strong muscles. His are probably the most impressive raw vegan videos I've seen. The kid in the video with Corona doesn't look nearly as good, though (bug eyes, underdeveloped jaw, ugly).

Lou Corona sagely pointed out the importance of avoiding refined and cooked foods. Highly refining and high heating foods seems to be two of the most damaging things you can do to them, and these two processes seem to be behind much of the "pandemic" of diseases of civilization in recent decades. The cane juice example was an excellent one. Eat it raw and unrefined and it's a health drink. Heat and refine it and add some crave-inducing flavoring and it becomes a death drink.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 09:55:23 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Löwenherz

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 05:33:37 pm »
..i honestly think eating too many fruits pull minerals from the body if you are not eating sufficient proteins, fats and greens, lots of fruity veggies and vegans are pale and have thin hair and skin

Yes and furthermore high fruit consumption has a very drying effect (dry skin, dry joints). Aajonus recommends to eat fruit only in a combination with fats like avocadoe or coconut cream. That makes sense, imo.

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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2012, 05:44:13 pm »
Lou Corona, in contrast, is one of the healthiest looking vegans or vegetarians I've seen.
Do you know other people who thrive on plant fats as their main calorie source?

According to my own  phantastic results with coconut fat I tend to believe that plant fats could be at least as benefical as raw animal fats if you chose the right ones, that means tropical plant fats..

Another healthy looking example could be Brendan Brazier who eats a lot of greens and plant fats:

Thrive Foods book trailer

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Offline wodgina

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2012, 05:54:15 pm »
Yeah, if you compare durianrider's photos before he went raw vegan to know, it's shocking how much he has deteriorated. He's looking more and more like a skinny, pale old woman. Before he went raw vegan, he looked like a macho, muscled youth with a tan.

Lou Corona, in contrast, is one of the healthiest looking vegans or vegetarians I've seen. No doubt Tyler would attribute that to cosmetic procedures, Photoshopping, etc., but I suspect that much of it is real. In addition to Corona's healthy-looking skin, he appears to be much happier than the average vegan we see in videos (like DR), he has bright white eyes and teeth (though the teeth could have been treated), a strong, broad, handsome face and strong muscles. His are probably the most impressive raw vegan videos I've seen. The kid in the video with Corona doesn't look nearly as good, though (bug eyes, underdeveloped jaw, ugly).

Lou Corona sagely pointed out the importance of avoiding refined and cooked foods. Highly refining and high heating foods seems to be two of the most damaging things you can do to them, and these two processes seem to be behind much of the "pandemic" of diseases of civilization in recent decades. The cane juice example was an excellent one. Eat it raw and unrefined and it's a health drink. Heat and refine it and add some crave-inducing flavoring and it becomes a death drink.

Have you got a link to DR's photos pre vegan?
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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2012, 05:58:07 pm »

Offline wodgina

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2012, 06:58:31 pm »
DR is an Alpha male

I think DR looks better now than then, Lateral growth of the cheek bones had occurred since his baby faced old photos but this can happen as someone grows older regardless of diet. Most alpha's have strong cheek bones. On raw paleo he could of been a Manny Pacquiao.

Still full of shit though.

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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2012, 08:30:50 am »
Actually, the images I was thinking of are not from before DR's raw vegan days, just from before his recent more obvious degeneration. It's pretty remarkable how rapid his physical deterioration appears to be in the last few years. Here's the progression-- I think I've got these at least roughly in chronological order, though I can't be certain. I have noticed over time from seeing his videos and images now and then that he does appear to be becoming thinner, paler, more feminine-looking, with worse-looking teeth, more scraggly hair and less of it, etc., though I'm not trying to claim that this proves anything.









On the plus side, at least DR moved to the tropics so he isn't eating bananas that have been shipped thousands of miles from plantations that are devastating rain forests. It seems that he tries to walk the talk, which is commendable.

Here's one of DR's lfrv buddies with freelee at an 811 retreat:

[The most bizarre thing about this image is not that the guy looks bad, but that no one seems to notice or be concerned, and that these images were posted by the 811ers themselves as a positive testament, not a dire warning!]

Another image from the retreat:


I'll let the images speak for themselves, and, again, they aren't meant to "prove" anything.

Here's the source if you want to check out other images:
Monthly Archives: December 2009
30BaD Retreat Photos
http://www.rawfitbitch.com/2009/12/

Compare those lfr vegans to sixty-year-old, 39-year high fat raw vegan Lou Corona:
http://loucorona.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Lou-Corona-214x300.jpg

Lou is 58 years old in this video:
LOU CORONA
Lou mentions in the video that he eats cultured coconut yogurt.
Lou actually recommends mixing the protein-rich green veggies with the sugary ones like beets, contradicting the mono eating rules that some follow. It's interesting that Lou doesn't appear to be suffering any obvious harm from combining carbs with fats and actually looks better than most lfrv's.

To get an idea of how strong Lou is, try doing the exercise he does in the video. Notice that he's doing it on his fingertips. Can "alpha-male" durianrider do that?

Granted, Lou takes digestive enzymes and he could have had his teeth whitened, and of course, his success is just one anecdote that doesn't "prove" anything.

"I'm always careful not to overdo the fruits, especially at one sitting." --Lou Corona

[Edit: An offsetting example to Lou Corona is Gabriel Cousens, who apparently also eats a high fat raw vegan diet:]
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 12:20:44 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline invisible

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2012, 11:05:28 am »
Most high fat raw vegans age just as bad, if not worse.

Brendan Brazier is not raw, the second person in PaleoPhil's post, Gabriel Cousens, actually eats higher fat, hence the "high carb = bad!" text. The lighting for durianrider's 2012 picture is also pretty bad, exaggarating his appearance. We already know that most 801010 followers are undermuscled and bony regardless of activity and caloric level, but the high fat raw vegan diet is, and has always been, an utter catastrophe.




Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2012, 11:43:44 am »
Brendan Brazier is not raw, the second person in PaleoPhil's post, Gabriel Cousens, actually eats higher fat, hence the "high carb = bad!" text.
Ah, I thought DR was being ironic, like he often is. Now I do remember seeing Cousens praised at GITMR, not 30BAD, my bad.   -[ Thanks for the info. How does Gabriel Cousens' diet differ from Lou Corona's, if at all?

Quote
The lighting for durianrider's 2012 picture is also pretty bad, exaggarating his appearance.
I knew excuses were going to be made. No matter what images I post or information I provide of a low fat plant-based dieter, I find that someone will always find a way to make an excuse. That's one reason why I also posted a link to the retreat, so folks can go check out other images of the lfrv crowd themselves. I got the newest image of DR from his own Youtube site and used it because it was handy and one of his recent ones that showed his face square on without other things in the way or distortions, etc. Here's his Youtube link, if you want to look at other images or videos of his: http://www.youtube.com/user/durianriders The recent ones are pretty similar, except something's partly blocking his head or he's looking sideways or not smiling and looking morose (which I figured would be interpreted as trying to show an unfairly sad image of him) and so forth. Here's the most recent one, as of this posting, which looks somewhat distorted: There are actually other images that make him look worse than what I've posted, including more feminine. I even mistook a couple of his images in the recent past for females. Shaving his head has actually helped make him a bit more masculine again. I actually feel a bit bad for the guy, for what he's putting himself through without being aware of it. I think he really does feel he's doing the right thing for himself and others. But then he invariably treats some really nice person like Jimmy Moore badly and my sympathy for him falls back again.

The odd thing is, despite his frequent misdeeds and insults of myself when he insults all meat eaters, I still sort of like the guy a bit. I think I subconsciously cut him some slack because of his craziness and humor. My favorite video of his was when he was dressed up in a silly caricature of Aajonus, making fun of him in a not too harsh way, and I liked the way he was relatively nice and sympathetic in person to his raw meat eating friend. I suspect DR would be nicer to people in person than he is on the Web, as is the case with many. I guess this is why I bother to write about him and occasionally still check out a bit of a video of his, though lately they've been so obnoxious, that I tend to quickly shut them off.

In fairness, one could also make the argument that everyone ages, and I don't look all that great myself, but then I don't tell other people what to eat (and if anyone ever got that impression, it was entirely unintended--the last thing I want to become is a guru like DR) or make grandiose claims like DR does. I and others have just noticed that DR and Doug Graham seem to be aging and/or deteriorating faster than most. Lowenherz and I are hardly the only ones. Heck, even some of the raw vegans of various stripes have acknowledged this, but tend to get shushed by DR and others. I've seen posts at GITMR and 30BAD by alarmed newbies saying something like "Why do so many raw vegans look aged/emaciated/have teeth that are crumbling/etc.", only to see them get deleted (DR and Freelee are particulary quick with the deletions).

Denise Minger is a plant-oriented dieter (she added some animal and low-heated foods to a raw vegan diet) who behaves much nicer than DR and thus is someone it's much easier to be sympathetic toward.

But of course a handful of examples don't prove anything, and I think it's extraordinary that some raw vegans have lasted as long as they have, and I think Corona's example in particular does seem to raise questions about the claims of the ZIOH folks (doubtless they'd claim that he's lying about what he's eating or will soon die of cancer or some such excuse). The better vegan examples have helped tilt me more toward the omnivory/adaptivory side and away from the facultative carnivore hypothesis (though I remain open minded and am open to evidence-based suasion in either direction, and there's not a lot of difference between the two models; more a difference of emphasis than of completely different types).

As the examples of emaciated and aged-looking male raw vegans add up, it does start to make one wonder: if raw veganism is supposed to be so healthy and rejuvenating, why doesn't it seem to be rejuvenating these people beyond some early improvements? It would seem to require a measure of cognitive dissonance and perhaps eating disorders for these raw vegans of various stripes to not notice that quite a number of them, including some rather prominent examples, don't appear to be faring all that well.

Another of the more impressive plant-based dieters I've seen is this guy, Bernando LaPallo, who has been discussed in this forum before: Amazing 108 Years Old and Healthy! Part 2 of 3
Bernando does include some fish in his diet, which he apparently thinks is part of the key of his success, despite the small amounts, as vs. fully vegan diets. He also seems like a real nice gentleman.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 03:53:35 pm by TylerDurden »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline invisible

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2012, 03:31:29 pm »
The issue with durianrider is that he looks emaciated, which makes him look terrible. He'll probably start to look older faster and faster in the years to come (like Graham did), although if he added a wider variety of food to gain some weight he'd probably look fine for someone in their mid 30s. He still has a full head of hair as well, which helps.

Offline invisible

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2012, 04:11:45 pm »
How does Gabriel Cousens' diet differ from Lou Corona's, if at all?

Probably pretty similar. I believe Cousens now says that some cooked food is ok (i.e., he can no longer ignore the fact that calories matter and that you can not sustain yourself on sprouts)


Offline HIT_it_RAW

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2012, 05:05:01 pm »
The most bizarre thing about this image is not that the guy looks bad, but that no one seems to notice or be concerned, and that these images were posted by the 811ers themselves as a positive testament, not a dire warning
Those guys all look horribly underfed indeed.However somehow freelee manage to look good if not very good on all images i've ever seen of her. Somehow woman seem to do better on 811.

That first image of DR compared to his babyface pictures is very interesting because clearly he has had plenty of bodybuilding materials in between them judging by his strong (facial)bone structure growth and of course the muscle growth. I find it very hard to believe al that healthy looking growth cam from a 811 diet. Dit he do any other diet in between those pics that anyone knows? Maybe he cheated who knows. Or maybe he is indeed a steriod user as some people suggest. Still even with steroid the body doesn't grow without nutrients.

I found a analysis of a typical DR eating day
http://paleozonenutrition.com/2011/03/05/30-bananas-a-day-durianrider-an-analysis-of-his-paleo-vegan-diet/

Aparently if you make sure you burn 7000 kcals a day and actually eat that many cals you seem to get decent nutrients from the diet along with a few kgs sugar of course. This might explain why for some time his diet seemed to be working for him. By the rate he is detoriating right now it cant be long before he gets hospitalized for some extreme deficiancy though.
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Offline wodgina

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2012, 05:16:32 pm »
Freelee incorporates a high level of silicone into to her 30BAD plan to look good.

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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2012, 05:59:54 pm »
Freelee incorporates a high level of silicone into to her 30BAD plan to look good.
She doesn't look good anymore and is now quickly detoriating:

http://30bananasadaysucks.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/angular-e1330312865223.jpg

She lost all her female attractivity.

Both, Freelee and Durianrider, suffer from severe mental disorder, as everybody can see in their videos. Fruit sugar is the epicenter of their lifes.

Without 12 hours of daily sleep and estimated 4-6 hours of running the sugar damage would already be far worse.

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Offline Löwenherz

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2012, 06:07:15 pm »
Aparently if you make sure you burn 7000 kcals a day and actually eat that many cals you seem to get decent nutrients from the diet along with a few kgs sugar of course. This might explain why for some time his diet seemed to be working for him. By the rate he is detoriating right now it cant be long before he gets hospitalized for some extreme deficiancy though.

The calorie gossip in 801010 circles is another absurdity in Doug Grahams underworld. His followers often eat more than 3000 kcal per day and still detoriate and look emaciated. That alone simply shows that something is completely wrong.

On a well balanced raw paleo diet with healthy animals foods you don't need thousands of calories per day. Tsss...

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Offline KD

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2012, 06:11:25 pm »
I think you folks here are not appreciating  that no Cardassian had ever done a samson pushup.



---

Someone in the other thread mentioned he had aged in the past year. Hell, 5 years ago I thought he was undead, so the fact that he is aging puts a wedge in that theory, tsk tsk.

I'm sure if he had followed his instincts and ate an egg of piece of ocean fish or didn't scoff at a delicious mono meal of nuts he would probably be fine right?

heh heh. Anyone ever notice that the diet ratio itself when consumed in the fashion that these folks cite seemed indeed sustainable when it is a cooked,combined,salted, neolithic diet, flush with dairy products like the Kenyans, or more traditional folks that generally still (like a proper 'paleo' diet) emphasize offal, blood, bugs etc...along with their high carb processed/combined prot/fat/sugar diet? and is not picking a bunch of bananas, or eating mostly fruits and muscle meats and calling that a natural diet or paleo diet ?

in a modern context, I have not seen anyone pull off a diet high in sugar in a raw/mono eating/anti-dairy,salt and anti other mineral dense foods and supplements, or rely heavily on some pretty wackadoo health protocols most 'natural' type folks would label unnatural or destructive. You know the same types that say anything that is raw (or raw and vegan or raw and 'low fat') is good and yet traditional people probably wouldn't touch as a diet staple or WOE with a ten foot pole?

Yet, its disappointing that people will dismiss or misinterpret the significance (I know I have in the past) of what is exactly causing the problem. Other than the examples given, plenty of people eat a high carbohydrate and also even high sugar diet and somehow they are not showing (as) massive signs of deficiency, or complete metabolic shutdown, and most ironically, systemic toxicity, eating a diet that are the polar opposites of this type of thinking. Problem is, people arn't really interested in why that is, they just want to chalk it up to genetics or whatever other crap instead of examining which factors deserve highest priority or are most destructive. Getting that adequate minerals (  all minerals, not ones people pick and choose), vitamins, whole-protein and calories, goes along way to making most diet comps doable at least in a natural, low-modern-stress setting. That doing diets that are 'pure' but lacking any of those things/hideing behind some ideal of what is proper food or WOE for humans seems to take down even the logical eating philosophies, regardles of macronutrient ratios.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 06:17:57 pm by KD »

Offline aLptHW4k4y

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Re: 801010 and skin health
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2012, 06:30:15 pm »
The calorie gossip in 801010 circles is another absurdity in Doug Grahams underworld. His followers often eat more than 3000 kcal per day and still detoriate and look emaciated. That alone simply shows that something is completely wrong.

On a well balanced raw paleo diet with healthy animals foods you don't need thousands of calories per day. Tsss...

Löwenherz
It's mainly lack of protein on that diet that's causing problems.. you need A LOT of fruit to get enough complete protein. Apparently more than what 3-4000 calories of fruit provide. And then if you don't exercise all the extra sugar will just drive you crazy.

 

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