Author Topic: Whats your view on Raw Honey  (Read 52617 times)

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Offline Brother

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #75 on: August 26, 2010, 05:25:36 pm »
From wiki:

Honey has a long history of human consumption and is used in various foods and beverages as a sweetener and flavoring. It also has a role in religion and symbolism. Flavors of honey vary based on the nectar source, and various types and grades of honey are available. It is also used in various medicinal traditions to treat ailments. The study of pollens and spores in raw honey (melissopalynology) can determine floral sources of honey.[5] Because bees carry an electrostatic charge, and can attract other particles, the same techniques of melissopalynology can be used in area environmental studies of radioactive particles, dust, or particulate pollution.[6][7]

I feel the same way about it as Daniel Vitalis. I don't think raw is a benefit regarding honey in a world this poluted.

Offline chucky

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #76 on: September 19, 2010, 02:48:16 pm »
It's really surprising how Aajonus and few others here can eat generous amounts of honey and butter without gaining any. I started to gain immediately after mixing these two.

Offline Marissa

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2010, 01:24:29 am »
Aajonus eats raw honey with butter.  I tried that and it makes sense.

I also add raw honey with extra virgin olive oil and use that as a dip for cucumbers.  Good snack.

Raw honey is also useful for scrapes and cuts.


This is why I joined this forum!  I'm going to try that as a snack and see how I like it.  Also, I've never heard of raw honey for scrapes and cuts.  Does it help healing faster or stop infections, or both?
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Offline Michael

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #78 on: October 02, 2010, 05:00:26 am »
You peeps who eat raw honey. How much of it do you eat, do you get problems if you eat much and do you notice a big difference if you've eaten it in the comb?
I usually abstain from honey and most carbs these days miles.  But, I have indulged in a little raw honeycomb again recently and am pleased to say that it didn't cause me any noticeable negative effects.  I did only consume quantities that would be considered small by any Primal dieters - maybe half the carton over a period of a week?  When I used to consume jarred raw honey I would certainly experience sugar highs/lows with even small amounts.

The trouble with this is that it makes it tempting to repeat the 'experiment'!  ;)

Also, I've never heard of raw honey for scrapes and cuts.  Does it help healing faster or stop infections, or both?
I thought EVERYBODY knew this now Marissa?!  How did you manage to miss such mainstream information?!  ;)  It's alleged to prevent/overcome infections and increase the efficacy of healing as far as I recall.  I believe that as far back as the Egyptian period, honey was utilised as a preservative in mummification too.
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Offline Hannibal

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #79 on: October 02, 2010, 02:11:25 pm »
My problem with the honey is that I can hardly ever eat only small amount of it. Either I do not eat it at all or I eat quite a lot of it.
Recently I eat it very rarely and this way it's less probable that I would indulge in it. It works.
I eat primarily honeycomb, but I don't see any difference re addictiveness in comparison with liquid honey.
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Offline Michael

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #80 on: October 02, 2010, 05:15:20 pm »
That does seem to be a general problem with honey and most high-carb foods in my experience Hannibal.  There always seems to be the danger of a 'slippery slope'! :)  This latest occasion that I enjoyed a little honeycomb with cheese on my birthday was quite significant in that I was able to only consume a little of it (relatively) and didn't have subsequent cravings.

Ordinarily, I've always had issues as you described which has been a lifelong problem.  I could never eat a single biscuit - it had to be the whole packet!  Never a bowl of ice-cream - had to be the entire tub!  :)  Phew, glad those days are years behind me.  Candida, disrupted hormone issues etc can be an awful way to eat and live!

If you believe in the theory at all - do you have a history of suffering systemic candida?

Interesting that you've noticed no significant difference with the addictive tendancies of liquid honey and honeycomb.  I suppose we could draw various conclusions from this.  Perhaps the liquid honey I source is not raw, perhaps your honeycomb is not raw, perhaps there's some other marked difference between the two that I source and your own (unfiltered liquid honey, sugar syrup fed bees etc).  Perhaps, even, there has been a recent biological improvement in my own physiology which could now mean that liquid honey, also, would not effect me as it usually has done.  I'm actually still very interested in buying a blood sugar monitor to put such theories to the test as I previously discussed with PaleoPhil.  That may help to answer some of these questions.
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #81 on: October 02, 2010, 07:41:03 pm »
I tried a truly raw honeycomb--as raw as you can get. They have the bees make the honeycomb right in the package, so that it doesn't have to be heated or smoked or even moved in the slightest. It was still addictive and it still spiked my BG. Interestingly, it spiked it less than jarred, centrifuged raw honey, but not much less.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Michael

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #82 on: October 04, 2010, 03:50:18 am »
Thanks for sharing the results of that particular experiment Phil.  Very interesting!  I must buy a blood sugar monitor and start running some of my own tests!

Your source of raw honeycomb sounds absolutely amazing!  I've never heard of anything like that before.  What a shame you can't enjoy a little from time to time.
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #83 on: October 04, 2010, 10:47:27 am »
Heh, heh. I still do occasionally eat raw honey anyway. It is addictive, though, so I only buy small amounts at a time so I won't eat too much, and I try to limit the # of times I buy it. If it starts to become a problem for me, I'll stop buying it altogether.

I have been doing more research on BG spikes and insulin resistance, though, given my issues. If I recall correctly, Dr. Davis thinks that any spikes over a certain level are unhealthy, but Dr. Harris seems to think that occasional spikes are OK as long as your BG drops back down again within 2 hours, which is what my guess was too, but I need to do more reading and testing on this, because I don't remember all the specifics and most of my tests have not shown proper return to baseline BG after 2 hours, which is discouraging.

However, I did a test today on some juice that my carb-pushing mother gave me (and my best friend also pushes me to eat carbs, and then there are the carb advocates here who go on and on about delicious fruits and honey and some even criticize VLC/ZC and VLCers/ZCers, so it's quite a bit of nagging and temptation to deal with--so far my willpower has held up pretty well) and my BG did drop back down after 2 hours, so that may be a good sign, or it may be because I only drank 1 glass of juice. One test is also of course not enough to go on.

One interesting change is that my fasting blood glucose was higher on the last few tests. It was 100 or more, like Lex's. This may be the same adjustment phenomena as happened to Lex after he had been on a ZC diet for a while. Strangely, despite these higher fasting BG measurements, lately I haven't been reacting quite as badly to carbs as I did back when I was eating plenty of them. I still do react negatively, though, so this may not amount to much of anything.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 10:56:19 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Hannibal

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #84 on: October 04, 2010, 01:16:08 pm »
perhaps your honeycomb is not raw
It's definitely raw. I get it directly from one beekeeper.
Something like that - http://www.pacificcrestapiaries.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/waxcappings.jpg
Do you blame vultures for the carcass they eat?
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Offline Michael

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #85 on: October 05, 2010, 04:38:14 pm »
It's definitely raw. I get it directly from one beekeeper.
Something like that - http://www.pacificcrestapiaries.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/waxcappings.jpg

I shouldn't really be surprised, Hannibal, that, like your meats, you have access to the most incredible looking honeycomb! :)  We can discount the possibility of poor quality honeycomb from the equation then.  Have you done any experimentation with blood sugar monitoring in a manner similar to PaleoPhil?

Heh, heh. I still do occasionally eat raw honey anyway. It is addictive, though, so I only buy small amounts at a time so I won't eat too much, and I try to limit the # of times I buy it. If it starts to become a problem for me, I'll stop buying it altogether.

It sounds like a class C drug! :)  Not too far from the truth perhaps?!

Quote
If I recall correctly, Dr. Davis thinks that any spikes over a certain level are unhealthy

Yes, that's what I recall too.  I certainly need to read up on these opinions more fully and take careful note of specific levels and timescales before I conduct any testing myself.

I think the testing you're doing is generating some extremely valuable information for yourself and the general forum knowledge base.

I'm surprised the juice had a less dramatic effect on your BG 2hr post test levels.  I wouldn't of expected this which, in itself, highlights the usefulness of the testing.  It's also interesting that you've observed an improved BG reaction since eating VLC/ZC for a period of time and that your fasting BG levels have increased.  Perhaps these are indications of improved insulin resistance and a sign that the body has already made progress with healing.  Of course, at this point, it wouldn't take long to entirely reverse any gains made by a recurrence of carb over-consumption.
1. When offered something that is too good to be true. It is.
2. Greed and fear are poor states of mind in which to make decisions; like shopping at the supermarket when you are hungry.
3. Exponential growth is mathematically unsustainable.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #86 on: October 08, 2010, 07:11:16 am »
I'm surprised the juice had a less dramatic effect on your BG 2hr post test levels.  I wouldn't of expected this which, in itself, highlights the usefulness of the testing.  It's also interesting that you've observed an improved BG reaction since eating VLC/ZC for a period of time and that your fasting BG levels have increased.  Perhaps these are indications of improved insulin resistance and a sign that the body has already made progress with healing. 
I was surprised by the juice results too. Despite the good BG response, I did get some of the usual symptoms from it the next morning. Maybe fructose is more of a problem for me than BG spikes from glucose. It's early to tell yet, whether that one test means anything.
Quote
Of course, at this point, it wouldn't take long to entirely reverse any gains made by a recurrence of carb over-consumption.
I think you're right.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline CarnivorousApe

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #87 on: July 16, 2012, 03:46:11 pm »
Phil, interesting experiment. I am using little amounts of honey myself, to sweeten up life a bit, although I think a couple of table spoons on empty stomach is a bit too much, no wonder it threw your BG out of balance (I wouldn't be able to eat it anyway, too sweat and stingy)

I try not to start my day with honey, eating food high in fat and protein instead.

During the day I eat honey three times (not in one go), 1 tea spoon each, mixed with quarter cup of sour cream, cocoa powder and nuts.

So I consume 1 table spoon of honey per day, tried to get rid of it completely, but life became too sad :)

I wonder how BG behaves during such consumption, didn't do any tests but seems everything is allright.



Offline aLptHW4k4y

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #88 on: July 17, 2012, 01:44:29 am »
I wonder how BG behaves during such consumption, didn't do any tests but seems everything is allright.
1 teaspoon of honey with a bunch of fat.. there's really no need to be that paranoid about the BG :)

Offline CarnivorousApe

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #89 on: July 17, 2012, 07:20:31 am »
1 teaspoon of honey with a bunch of fat.. there's really no need to be that paranoid about the BG :)

Yeah, after a while trying low carb I noticed that honey is EXTREMELY sweet, really no need to use more.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #90 on: July 17, 2012, 10:00:47 am »
Phil, interesting experiment. I am using little amounts of honey myself, to sweeten up life a bit, although I think a couple of table spoons on empty stomach is a bit too much, no wonder it threw your BG out of balance
I've seen videos of reportedly healthy hunter-gatherers and traditional peoples consuming enormous quantities of honey/comb or mead in a single sitting, so I suspect that truly healthy folk don't experience the same sort of BG spikes and negative effects that many metabolically deranged moderners do--or maybe their bodies have other unknown mechanisms that prevent harm from BG spikes. Unfortunately, there's no profit in studying this, so it likely will never be thoroughly investigated.

Quote
(I wouldn't be able to eat it anyway, too sweat and stingy)
Heated honey, and even some unfermented raw honey, makes my throat sting and itch, but raw fermented honey never does, in any quantity. You might want to try other honeys, such as Really Raw fermented honey, before you assume that all give you sweating and stinging--though I can't promise you any benefits either and too much of even RF honey does have some other negative effects on me.

[quote[During the day I eat honey three times (not in one go)[/quote]I rarely consume honey more than once a day, and many days I eat none. However, some days I do eat more than 2 tbsps. I seem to handle up to about 2 tbsps without big BG spikes, though sometimes I consume more and don't get a spike and other times I consume less and do. It probably depends in part on what else I eat, and I've found that the same BG monitor can produce significantly different results on the same drop of blood (on 2 different test strips), so I tend to look more at the longer-run picture than focus on single results, though I do try to avoid BG spikes above 140-160, based on what multiple sources suggest.

When I eat more RF honey, I notice that my hair and scalp benefit, but if I eat it too many days in a row, I notice that some of my teeth start to loosen, so it's a balancing act. Oddly enough, I don't seem to get acne outbreaks from RF honey or wild Maine blueberries like I do from certain other fruits. Nature is incredibly complex.

Despite still eating rather LC many days, I never find RF honey to be too sweet, unlike heated honey and even some (unfermented) raw honeys. Even when I first tried RF honey while I was VERY LC, I didn't find it too sweet, whereas some other honeys, sweet heated wines, and other foods do taste too sweet to me. I can remember even before I went Paleo when a friend made a Kool-Aid-type drink for me, and I gagged. To me it tasted like Kool-Aid powder with a touch of water added, but to her it was perfect.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 10:11:06 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline CarnivorousApe

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #91 on: July 17, 2012, 11:10:22 am »
Fermented honey is an interesting idea. I suppose it is not so sweet because sugars in it are predigested by bacteria?

I actually don't mind honey to be very sweet as it allows me to use lesser amounts to sweeten up sour cream dessert.

Seems like this need is purely psychological, just need something to have with big mug of hot tea.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #92 on: July 17, 2012, 07:16:29 pm »
Yes, bacteria and yeast.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Haai

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #93 on: July 18, 2012, 12:12:51 am »
I've seen videos of reportedly healthy hunter-gatherers and traditional peoples consuming enormous quantities of honey/comb or mead in a single sitting

what do you consider to be an enormous quantity of honey (comb)? How many grams?
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #94 on: July 18, 2012, 08:26:31 am »
They didn't have scales to weigh the mass of the honey, but in one documentary, the men were sitting below the honey-hive trees, gorging on big hunks of honeycomb with their bare hands and licking their fingers, eating nothing but honeycomb and grubcomb until full. In other words, they apparently saw it as a food rather than a special dessert that you limit yourself to 2 teaspsoon fulls. And I've never seen primitive people say stuff like modern people do along the lines of "Be careful to limit your intake of this toxic sugar called honey or it will rot your teeth and kill you. Sugar is sugar after all, and fructose is even worse. Fructose is in honey and also grows on fructose trees, don't ya know. I weighed myself this morning and found I had lost 2.3 pounds by avoiding honey and other evil sugars and carbs." ;)

Of course, I'm not saying that "metabolically deranged" [and lifestyle deranged] modern folk [necessarily] can do what healthy aboriginal folk can do, but it is interesting how traditional practices like honey eating tend to fly in the face of common beliefs.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2012, 09:01:35 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline CarnivorousApe

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #95 on: July 18, 2012, 08:54:47 am »
I notice that even 2 tea spoons of honey give me acid reflux :( So no more honey for me, replacing it with Stevia which tastes terrible to me.

Maybe it's good idea to binge for a week or so on seasonal fruits or honey when following strict LC for the rest of the year.

Offline Haai

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #96 on: July 22, 2012, 05:07:33 pm »
When I eat honey I usually eat a whole jar (450g) within 5 minutes. Same goes for honeycomb.
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline aLptHW4k4y

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #97 on: July 22, 2012, 08:23:58 pm »
Haai, you're like a bear man! Not sure if even bears can eat that much in 5 minutes :D

Offline CarnivorousApe

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #98 on: July 23, 2012, 08:35:11 am »
When I eat honey I usually eat a whole jar (450g) within 5 minutes. Same goes for honeycomb.

I would do the same if I ate honey a couple times a year, unfortunately it's there - right in front of me! Well, a couple teaspoons a days seems to be reasonable.

Offline Chris

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Re: Whats your view on Raw Honey
« Reply #99 on: July 23, 2012, 12:26:50 pm »
When I eat honey I usually eat a whole jar (450g) within 5 minutes. Same goes for honeycomb.

WOW, talk about a blood sugar spike. I admit honey has some addicting qualities (Sugar)! I wonder if you have a yeast imbalance or something? I used to eat honey consistently, granted not like you though. I feel, and this is JMO here. If I'm going to eat honey, I'm only going to eat Raw Manuka Honey UMF (there are different potencies, the higher the number the more potent it is) from New Zealand. It has powerful anti-bacterial properties. Google it! Once you try it, you'll never go back! It's the only brand of Honey that I would use personally!

 

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