Author Topic: Are raw diet for everyone?  (Read 7010 times)

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Offline Chopstick33

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Are raw diet for everyone?
« on: July 06, 2012, 06:02:39 pm »
If everyone were to change to raw diet(meat), will it be enough meat to feed the world? Maybe that is why grains are introduce to us because of starvation.  Just a thought.. Lol

Offline joej627

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2012, 06:29:30 pm »
I don't think anybody can answer this question fully.  I think if everybody switched to eating only grass-fed, organic meats we would be in trouble  ;D  But either way you look at it, eventually we are going to have to get pretty creative to figure out how to feed the growing population.  People are coming up with vertical garden buildings which should help a lot in the long run if we mass produce.  I don't know how that would work for animals though.

Offline Chopstick33

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2012, 06:45:45 pm »
Look in china, without grain most people will starve to death. For sure there will be no more any source of meat. I don't think this is a concern for us raw diet fans because grains are introduce to human. Maybe one day some when grains won't grow because of bad weather for couple year, then we will be in trouble.

Offline Chopstick33

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2012, 06:49:45 pm »
Maybe grains was discover because of over population.. Lol

Offline Ferocious

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2012, 09:32:42 pm »
We would die out and eventually, I believe we are. There's way too many of us, an "unnatural" amount.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 09:41:02 pm »
If everyone were to change to raw diet(meat), will it be enough meat to feed the world? Maybe that is why grains are introduce to us because of starvation.  Just a thought.. Lol

I cure people with raw paleo diets.

I help strangers without thinking they might make too many babies.

Being a healer at heart its a different perspective.

I'd prefer the world solve health and give everyone perfect health so we then reach for the stars.  Beyond earth and spread out.
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Offline bachcole

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 11:11:10 pm »
The good news is that the rate of children per woman is dropping toward two per woman ALL over the world.  UN demographers say that this will result in the world's population plateauing out at roughly 10 billion.  That is way too high for me, but it is a big relief.

Does that mean that everyone can be paleo?  Don't know.
"There is only One Being in Reality and it is the Universal Soul."  -- Meher Baba --

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2012, 02:56:54 am »
GS I'm a healer at heart and I can still think about whether or not I want to convince everyone including strangers on the internet to go raw paleo. If I did, I'd probably spend time on the raw vegan forums instead of here so selfishly learning and trying to help others who have already found the first steps instead. As a healer you can think of just individuals but you can also think of the planet as a whole. How to heal the planet is a very different perspective than how to heal individuals. I'm not happy with healing every  human to have the planet die and then having to find another planet to kill.

Another thing I think of is that if I were to convince a couple thousand people in my city of apx a million to go raw paleo - there would be literally no local grass-fed food left for me and I would heal others at my own family and friends' expense. With the drought the local ranches are almost all gone. It's already very hard to get good food. The price of good food here has sky-rocketed even since I started a year ago to source good animal foods because there have been some besides me that have also seen the light.

Bachcole, I didn't hear about that statistic. That's good news for the planet. Even at 10 billion we might still run into problems because life-expectancy is increasing so fast.

One division of life which a good part of the world doesn't access from would be insects and bugs. Eating lower down on the food chain is really the only way for everyone on the planet to be able to get enough food without destroying the planet. Eating insects would also change our relationship to farming because mono farming practices and pesticides are quickly killing our mother planet.  If our species reorganized it's thinking to perceive the bugs that we are trying to kill as the better food than the plant which we are trying to preserve from the bugs - it could mean survival and although not really fully paleo, more paleo than what we have now.

Offline Chopstick33

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2012, 05:26:00 am »
Dorothy had a good point here. Do raw bugs diet offer the same healing effect? I been watching the world news and the past two there has been alot of extreme weather. I am sure the extreme weather effect alot of our food source.  End of world 2012? Lol

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2012, 06:17:46 am »
Dorothy,

All the people in this forum participating, giving their tips, even you are enabling potentially thousands of strangers aroung the world to learn about raw paleo diets and we are saving them and in some people's minds overpopulating the planet.

This forum initially with the pushing and guidance of Geoff / Tyler has saved and touched thousands of people... It is t he way of the internet... We share our knowledge for the benefit of fellow humans.

I myself contribute here by spreading my success stories and administering this forum with the best hardware i've got for free.  And the technology this forum runs on, the software smf, the platform php and the operating system linux and database mysql are all freely given.

Its a new age of selfless giving,  and the depopulatiion mindset will have serious challenges ahead of them because when we heal and touch peoples lives... They experience first hand our charity, our selflessness, our caring... And they pay it forward multiple times and teach, tell and save others.

By just our collective discussions here we are contributing to a selfless prolife population explosion.
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Offline bachcole

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2012, 06:25:31 am »
You folks might also look into LENR or Low energy nuclear reactions.  Yes, I know, it looks phony and mainstream physicists will say that it ain't so.  But I have been following it intensely for about 9 months and am as smart as the next guy, and it looks real to me.

You might check here first:  http://nickelpower.org/2011/12/30/replicators-as-if-december-30-2011/     How far we are away from almost free commercial energy remains to be seen.  But there are scientific big wigs at MIT, NASA, SRI International, Caltech, University of Missouri, etc. etc. etc. who say that it is for real.  And if they are mistaken (not even lying), their careers would be over.

Why is this important on a raw paleo forum.  Because soon the energy for desalinization will be very close to free.  Deserts will bloom.  Everyone will be able to eat paleo, if they so choose.
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Offline joej627

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2012, 06:43:05 am »
Healer at heart definitely.  I think one thing that is overlooked is the spiritual/emotional side of things.  I believe we are creative enough to solve almost all of our "problems" on this planet if we would deal with our spiritual wounds and stop fighting ourselves every step of the way.  Most people continue making the same mistakes over and over again and not listening to their inner wisdom telling them to go against the grain.  Helping people to heal on this side of things really opens the playing field for more open minded people to come in and start making good changes for the planet.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2012, 10:38:09 am »
This website is still very small. The people it does touch it touches deeply I do understand that and deeply appreciate all the giving that is done here. One must admit though that it would simply be impossible for everyone to eat paleo as things are today along with increasing populations especially with increasing life expectancies. Having a healing heart to me also means a healing heart for our mother planet. I can't imagine feeling compassion for others without also thinking about the health of the environment that supports us all. To think that we can destroy this planet and just find another to me makes no sense at all. When thinking of how to feed the masses well we must take into consideration the whole of our earth and come up with a new paradigm imho.

Bachcole - that's some fascinating stuff! Endless energy sources seems like it's just a matter of time.

Do we have a solution though for the poisoning of the planet that we are accomplishing through pesticides that I don't know about though? If the bees disappear for instance we're in for some deep trouble no matter how much energy and water we have.   

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2012, 10:40:17 am »
Healer at heart definitely.  I think one thing that is overlooked is the spiritual/emotional side of things.  I believe we are creative enough to solve almost all of our "problems" on this planet if we would deal with our spiritual wounds and stop fighting ourselves every step of the way.  Most people continue making the same mistakes over and over again and not listening to their inner wisdom telling them to go against the grain.  Helping people to heal on this side of things really opens the playing field for more open minded people to come in and start making good changes for the planet.

Joe - I agree completely. That's the healing that is needed for everyone and the planet to survive and heal.

Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2012, 10:49:04 am »
This website is still very small. The people it does touch it touches deeply I do understand that and deeply appreciate all the giving that is done here. One must admit though that it would simply be impossible for everyone to eat paleo as things are today along with increasing populations especially with increasing life expectancies. Having a healing heart to me also means a healing heart for our mother planet. I can't imagine feeling compassion for others without also thinking about the health of the environment that supports us all. To think that we can destroy this planet and just find another to me makes no sense at all. When thinking of how to feed the masses well we must take into consideration the whole of our earth and come up with a new paradigm imho.

Who knows?  Maybe I will turn evil a la John D. Rockefeller upon learning about real health proceeds to destroy / suppress real health knowledge for their own greedy profits.  I could buy up all references to raw paleo diet on google and force everyone into a twisted evil version like the medical profession does.

Of course we all think differently.

If some of us weren't so selfless in pushing, moderating and administering this forum, this forum would grind to a halt.  Thanks to all the moderators who keep things happening. 

See stats:
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/stats/

34 million page views. 

Pretty good.  We are not small.
We are touching many lives.

We at Raw Paleo Diet Forum have even more page views than the cooked paleo diet forum cavemanforum.com
http://cavemanforum.com/stats/

at only 20.5 million page views.

The masses are waking up with respect to the Medical professions' short comings.

Joe Salatin's farming techniques are a step in the right direction.
http://www.oneradionetwork.com/sustainability/joel-salatin-confessions-of-a-lunatic-farmer-july-5-2012/
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 10:56:12 am by goodsamaritan »
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Offline Dorothy

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2012, 12:36:04 pm »
Who knows?  Maybe I will turn evil a la John D. Rockefeller upon learning about real health proceeds to destroy / suppress real health knowledge for their own greedy profits.  I could buy up all references to raw paleo diet on google and force everyone into a twisted evil version like the medical profession does.

Of course we all think differently.


Huh? I'm lost. You want to buy up all the paleo sites and be evil?
I'm not talking about suppressing ANYTHING! The things people can read into what I say! I'm disagreeing that we should keep the population of our planet going at the rate that is, with the food production practices and choices as they are and just go get another PLANET like you said.

Compared to the large masses, people that even entertain raw paleo and even paleo are a drop in the bucket. Eating high up in the food chain in general is sustained by mass farming practices that produce low quality foods and destroy the planet.

Joe Salatin's farming is wonderful - but isn't what is keeping the large populations we have now alive. Those farming techniques are old style before the big population boom. The population that we have now is a result of and supported by modern agriculture and grains. In order for everyone to be able to really eat well - we need a new paradigm and/or discoveries or it won't matter how many new babies we make - there won't be a future for healthy humans.

Offline Chopstick33

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2012, 02:09:12 pm »
There is aways a ying and a yang on both side. Marketing now days force people into a different diet. I know I wasn't able to resist a 99 cent burgers from a fast food place like mcdonold couple year ago.

Offline bachcole

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2012, 06:58:58 pm »
Dorothy, et. al., unfortunately, as much as us LENR enthusiasts have tossed  ideas around about the consequences of LENR, I can not see (at this point) any structural reason why pesticides would be discouraged by market forces because of LENR and practically free energy.  I suppose that the case could be made that a much higher percentage of the world's population will be pulled out of poverty and they will have more leverage to demand organic foods (I often buy non-organic veggies because I cannot afford organic), but there will still be some pressure to use pesticides.  I guess that we can hope that the lessening of forces as described above will help.  But only time will tell.

LENR will devastate the petroleum industry.  The petroleum industry is a major source of chemicals for the pesticide industry.  When demand goes down for petroleum, then the price will drop; this will make it much cheaper to make pesticides.  But when people have significantly more money, they will be more likely to turn up their noses at non-organic foods.  LENR will also help people be more self-sufficient and more able to have their own gardens, even in cold climates.  This will lessen the market demand for fruits and veggies.  But not by much; and will this lesson the demand for non-organic produce?  I doubt it.  People will still be driven by the desire to save money.
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Offline Joy2012

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2012, 11:28:00 pm »
If raw paleo would help millions of people get healthy, how much health-care money would be saved? How much human resource could be devoted to developing foodstuff instead on sick beds?

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #19 on: July 08, 2012, 12:35:56 am »
Dorothy, et. al., unfortunately, as much as us LENR enthusiasts have tossed  ideas around about the consequences of LENR, I can not see (at this point) any structural reason why pesticides would be discouraged by market forces because of LENR and practically free energy.  I suppose that the case could be made that a much higher percentage of the world's population will be pulled out of poverty and they will have more leverage to demand organic foods (I often buy non-organic veggies because I cannot afford organic), but there will still be some pressure to use pesticides.  I guess that we can hope that the lessening of forces as described above will help.  But only time will tell.

LENR will devastate the petroleum industry.  The petroleum industry is a major source of chemicals for the pesticide industry.  When demand goes down for petroleum, then the price will drop; this will make it much cheaper to make pesticides.  But when people have significantly more money, they will be more likely to turn up their noses at non-organic foods.  LENR will also help people be more self-sufficient and more able to have their own gardens, even in cold climates.  This will lessen the market demand for fruits and veggies.  But not by much; and will this lesson the demand for non-organic produce?  I doubt it.  People will still be driven by the desire to save money.

Excellent point about LENR destroying the petroleum industry and therefore affecting the pesticide industry. That's why I'd be surprised if it were "allowed" to be successful. My gut tells me that we've come up with clean, free energy a bunch of times and have suppressed it. I've read about a few of them.

If there are no pesticides then we'd have to come up with a functional alternative to the monoculture paradigm that we are using now pronto because pesticides and chemical fertilizers are the only thing keeping that going.

Growing gardens and backyard sustainability on small scales is most definitely a strategy - but with economies and schedules the way they are most families here will not opt for using their time that way. This is the first year that I have started to garden my own food in any seriousness in an attempt to produce most of our food myself (and I love gardening!) because it's been the first year due to inflation where growing my own food in earnest has not been more expensive than buying organic food from the store. Also, food quality seems to have dropped low enough where I can grow better food myself. It has been quite a learning curve and has taken a lot of time and effort to get it even started in this extremely harsh environment. Up north with the winters it was much easier actually. Spring through fall were conducive and preservation techniques could take one through the winter - the cold being part of the ability to preserve. Places like where I live at present it is true are highly populated only because of air conditioning and with desalination there would be much less drought troubles and therefore more usable land - but the scary thing is that all the growing zones are changing so fast! Before this was an area that could support different crops than it can now even with sufficient water. The growing zones changing so radically so fast is as much a problem as gmo and monocutures because if suddenly a whole food industry no longer can be produced there could be famine.

Do you think LENR would be able to reverse the climatic changes?
Do you think that free energy is going to make the general populations richer with our present economic and political systems still in place? Granted - it will be a real boon for the environment, but I wonder if it will translate into more money for the masses.

The only way I see people in general raising their own food is if it is impossible to get food other ways and the economy makes it an imperative. In Cuba this was the case when the economy collapsed. Everyone was ordered to use every piece of available land no matter who it was owned by to grow any produce they could to feed the population. That might happen here - but that's not fully raw paleo as most people on this site see it. It is also possible for people to raise seafood and small animals (I'm sure working on it) - but large animals like beef is an entirely different situation. Vertical gardens and rooftop gardens and better urban design can grow more produce - but not a cow.

What different practical choices in terms of land, water, energy resources besides the possibility of LENR can we at present practically incorporate to transfer the global population off of grain/pesticide/chem fertilizer-based diets? It's a question of a global shift that probably takes enough people doing what Joe is talking about to accomplish - 100th monkey style I'd imagine.

Joy, saving money on medical expenses isn't enough I'm afraid. It's not just about money (although changing the bases of our economies would change much), it's also about physical commodities. It's about resources.

No other animal can keep on reproducing past it's ability to find it's natural food supply. We've done that due to a communal effort to "advance" agriculture beyond what the land can normally produce, preservation techniques, cooking and transportation - which will in the long run kill us all and the planet if we keep it up the way we are doing it now.

Of course I want for everyone to have the best paleo foods - who with compassion wouldn't? It's just that it is more complex an issue for the long term when looking at the health of the entire ecological system and therefore everyone that lives in it. We tend to forget that we are part of a large organism. If we kill out the organism, we all die.

We've painted ourselves into a corner - we've grown the population beyond what the earth can naturally provide us of our natural diets thereby creating generally a weakened and sick species and created systems to do it that are killing the planet that our species relies on.

I want to figure out how to heal THAT! 

Offline bachcole

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #20 on: July 08, 2012, 02:10:34 am »
Dorothy, did you see my recent post about the average number of children per woman dropping toward 2 throughout the world.  Go to www.gapminder/world.   It will pop you into a filled page whose address is way too long for me to cut and paste.  At the bottom just left of the word "log", select for "Children per woman (total fertility)".  Click on "Play" and watch the show from 1800 to 2011.  Watch how the circles (each circle represents the population of a particular country) moves towards the left.  Because of this and LENR, I am very optimistic about our future. There are variables on the left also.  You can select for "Income per person (GDP per capita....)" or hundreds of other statistics.  This really is an amazing and enlightening and enlightened website.

You can play with this for hours.  On the far right you can select any number of countries in order to give you a perspective on what is going on.  I select the United States of America since I know them the best.

You can even select "Children per woman (total fertility)" for both axises, click "Play", and watch the 45% line move towards the lower left hand corner.

Have fun.
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Offline Dorothy

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #21 on: July 08, 2012, 08:19:34 am »
Dorothy, did you see my recent post about the average number of children per woman dropping toward 2 throughout the world.  Go to www.gapminder/world.   It will pop you into a filled page whose address is way too long for me to cut and paste.  At the bottom just left of the word "log", select for "Children per woman (total fertility)".  Click on "Play" and watch the show from 1800 to 2011.  Watch how the circles (each circle represents the population of a particular country) moves towards the left.  Because of this and LENR, I am very optimistic about our future. There are variables on the left also.  You can select for "Income per person (GDP per capita....)" or hundreds of other statistics.  This really is an amazing and enlightening and enlightened website.

You can play with this for hours.  On the far right you can select any number of countries in order to give you a perspective on what is going on.  I select the United States of America since I know them the best.

You can even select "Children per woman (total fertility)" for both axises, click "Play", and watch the 45% line move towards the lower left hand corner.

Have fun.

Yes, I am getting lost in it and loving it. Thank you bachcole! You did a real kindness today.

Do you have something else up your sleeve to give me hope regarding the toxification of the environment? I could use it. ;)
 

Offline bachcole

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #22 on: July 08, 2012, 08:38:19 am »
Dear Dorothy, No.  Except to say that even toxins get recycled.  If and when we stop poisoning ourselves, then the level of toxins will decline over time.

Believe it or not, CO2 emissions per se may actually help.  CO2 is a nutrient for plants, and plants will help cycle toxins.  Unfortunately, CO2 emissions always include other things that NO ONE disputes are toxins.  LENR will definitely reduce CO2 emissions and the emissions of many toxins.  I think that we just got to hunker down and get the word out for people to live more simply, to know that they can be happy without the very latest car, cellphone, object, junk and other things that don't cause real happiness.  Health is the first happiness.  I know of several very dear and spiritual people who are miserable because of ill health.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2012, 10:38:27 am »
The world population is getting out of control. We barely have enough food to feed everybody, even with grains. Scientist's are developing GMO crops to try and keep up, at the cost of nutrition and health. It seems like we sacrifice quality of life when population increases. The Earth is not set up to support this many people on the planet. The only immediate solution would be to dwindle the overall population gradually. The solution might be education. Seems like most if not all third world countries populations are exploding. They can't even take care of themselves, let alone practice birth control. The more educated countries are facing a leveling off, or a decrease of the overall population (Europe). When we talk about our ancestors (hunters and gathers). We have to put into terms their numbers, and the numbers of wild game that sustained them. They could only grow (in numbers) as much as their food supply allowed them too, or they would die off, or parish altogether. Mother nature had it's checks and balances. But, right now there's no easy solution in sight. Even the Chinese government have tried to control growth, by limiting how many kids a family could have. So they knew the problems that was on the horizon. There are no easy solutions and decisions! But, you have to remember traditions and way of life. Most people are not going to gravitate to the RPD. Our numbers are always going to be  much lower in the overall population numbers. Talk about checks and balances.

Offline Dorothy

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Re: Are raw diet for everyone?
« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2012, 12:12:47 pm »
Dear Dorothy, No.  Except to say that even toxins get recycled.  If and when we stop poisoning ourselves, then the level of toxins will decline over time.

Believe it or not, CO2 emissions per se may actually help.  CO2 is a nutrient for plants, and plants will help cycle toxins.  Unfortunately, CO2 emissions always include other things that NO ONE disputes are toxins.  LENR will definitely reduce CO2 emissions and the emissions of many toxins.  I think that we just got to hunker down and get the word out for people to live more simply, to know that they can be happy without the very latest car, cellphone, object, junk and other things that don't cause real happiness.  Health is the first happiness.  I know of several very dear and spiritual people who are miserable because of ill health.

Have you been able to talk to your friends about diet Bach? Without health truly is there is no happiness. "Health is Wealth".

The website you shared has made a big impact on my mind and emotions Bach. I deeply thank you for it. I'm doing my own little sustainability thing to start. I've created a garden and started composting everything that comes out of my home that is made from carbon. It's been a big deal for me. Gotta be able to walk the talk right? It's actually tremendously rewarding and fun. Black soldier fly composting seems to be where it's really at. How cool is it to take garbage, compost it in a way that doesn't smell nor make methane gas and make it produce bugs that self harvest and that feed chickens that feed you eggs?! It tickles me purple! ;)

Ok - I'll buy into your hope Bach. But keep on convincing me! Hope can be contagious. :D

 

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