Author Topic: Taking a leap of faith, Curing Eczema is my only goal(attention: GoodSamaritan)  (Read 88644 times)

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Offline jessica

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Beef liver is an amazing source of energy and nutrients, glad you have a source!

When you feel like eating fruit and putting ourself back on the carb rollercoaster, stuff your face with green leafy veggies like all different varieties of lettuces, and chew them thoroughly and add some animal fat, butter, egg yolk and salt to that mix, chew it though, dont blend it, focus in eat bite.  Keep a huge pot of bone broth in, make it with tons of onions, celery and garlic and drink as much of that as you can.    You really should have some safe but not perfect options on hand no matter what.  Drinking and cookies should be out of the pocture forever.  Never give into those, they are what is making you sick, they are addictive, they are harmful drugs that destroy your body.  If you need other diversions take a walk, write in a journal, scream, ohm, hug a pillow, attack a pillow, have a pep talk with yourself in the mirror.  Think about how you will feel afterwards, the next day, read your most painful journal entries, start taking progress photos so if you feel yourself starting tk slip you can have something to look back on.   Each evening make sure you remind yourself of the progress you have made, no matter how small it may seem.  Each moment is extremely important and precious and when you really decide to stop abusing yourself wih improper diet the moments you spent fighting urges are extremely hard but each small victory will add up.

Think about rotating what teas you drink in he morning, as herbs tend to have accumulative deletarious properties, meaning they are good for a while but so powerful they can take systems out of balance.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2014, 03:55:02 am by jessica »

Offline PaleoPhil

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I'm not low carb by any means, averaging at least 1 sweet potato (last night I had two) and some fruits (apple, pears)
Also supplement somewhere between 650-900 mcg of Iodine from [Now] Kelp and Dulse
So over that entire day is this what you ate for carby foods?

2 sweet potatoes
1 apple
2 pears

If so, do you know how many grams/day of carbs that works out to in the diet of an avg male (2500 calories), or for your own calories intake, if significantly different? It sounds like some days you're eating less carby foods than that, yes? Do you eat any other foods rich in carbs or prebiotics?

Quote
I'm pretty sure now that I think of it, it was a combination of gluten + chronic stress + Alcohol causing all this..
Had some stressful nights where I slipped and ate a lot of cookies and baked good and stuff. Those and alcohol and all-nighters probably built up my inflammation and pushed it over the threshold.
Binging on junky carbs (like cookies and other baked goods) and alcohol is pretty commonly reported by people trying to stay strictly LC. Many have reported see-sawing from one extreme to the other. It's good that you're trying to eat more sensible carby foods like sweet potatoes, apples and pears. Some have reported that that helps fill their carb needs so that they don't get as much cravings for junk.

Lack of sleep and too much stress can of course also be major negative factors.

Based on what you've been reporting, it sounds like maybe you also have my issue of not being able to fully metabolize carbs, so that even when eating a significant amount, it works out to being quite LC, because much of the carbs aren't being utilized?
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline badboy9311

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If so, do you know how many grams/day of carbs that works out to in the diet of an avg male (2500 calories), or for your own calories intake, if significantly different?

Hmm...interesting..I just realized I may be significantly under the intake of carb then..That may explain why I have constant urges to suddenly binge on large carb meal (such as poutine, fried rice and etc).

1 Medium sweet potato works out to be 27g of carb.. I haven't worked out the daily value yet but I just read on google it's about 9% of daily value..And sometimes I do take in just a small one for the day.

I'm also on quite an irregular eating habit now, often not eating until 3-4 pm in the afternoon (basically fasting from the morning till night..That might explain my
A. under-consumption of carb
B. under-consumption of calories..

From this may have lowered my energy as I'm also suspecting that i'm not eating enough meat.
I eat until I'm full usually but I still get really hungry after digestion, and usually leads to late night binges or snacking ...
I guess I'll return to "eat until full" in all raw food to get rid of the problem of under calorie first.
I think it also had to do with my last several months of heavy weightlifting (which I am keeping it minimal right now because of resting stage) , which have increased my muscle mass but my intake of food wasn't up to part, that may have caused damage to my body (probably endocrine and sheer lowered metabolism)

I really enjoy your detailed read through of my journal, I never suspected this issue..

I probably have a significantly damaged gut flora, from all the drinking and stress these couple years. Or may have been damaged for years.

I've always had a bad time gaining muscle, growing, and have almost always had cold hands and feet.

I guess right now I'm going to focus on rebuilding my gut first through
A. upping my calories
B. Continue detoxing
C. eating less straining food on gut system

So, an eat until I'm full raw paleo diet would do I guess.

Ordered Synthoix prebiotic from Gutcritters.com, just gotta wait for 2-3 weeks (slow shipping)
Prebiotic I guess can vary..I haven't included any in my diet yet but I read about raw garlic being very good. I get stomach ache from raw garlic cloves however...Die-off reaction?

----------------

@Jessica

Hmm..Interesting, you're providing a slightly different approach to PaleoPhil..In the sense that you're saying I'm having carb craving because...of candida..?
I think it's a combination of both..
Pathogens + damaged gut flora = indigestion of carbohydrates = craving for carbohydrates
When bad carbohydrates in form of fructose + simple sugar (candy and alcohol) they damage my gut system further by damaging gut wall and causing leaky gut
When good carbohydrates in form of slow carb /safe starches they become prebiotics/ good source of energy?
Am I on the right track? I really want to figure this out..

Theorizing doesn't work anyways, Going to adapt an eat until I'm full approach to raw food for now..

-----

Since started raw diet from the 2nd, I'm having even stronger immune system reaction in form of more eczema rashes and intense scratching at night.
Was reading gutcritters and apparently taking more probiotic/prebiotic causes pathogens to have die-off reactions
Interesting..so maybe raw meat/ Raw food when introducing gut bacteria into gut flora produces a new warfare inside my gut flora?

so raw food = balancing of gut flora = die-off symptoms if liver is impaired in functioning.
I feel like I'm gaining a piece of the puzzle everyday.

This approach (Gut Flora + Gut system health) makes a lot of sense then: people who can tolerate various bad food simply have strong HCL acid + Gut Flora that they digest and detoxify various toxins/pathogens easier than impaired individuals. By eating a raw paleo diet it takes out the need for a strong gut system to digest most food (because of enzyme / predigested fermented food).
Hmm..

I'm onto something here, my "Gut" is telling me that..

Offline jessica

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Yeah I am sure its a dynamic situation, differs carbs effect individuals differently Diego having uniquely functioning digestive systems which effect blood sugar and metabolism and also gut flora which help or hinder the break down, assimilation and biproduct of what you consume.  I like that you are exploring all suggestions and feeling out what might be most true for you and not just striving towards someone else's ideals that they may oragne not follow themselves.  You definitely can't. Theorize and I think it's helpful to recognize that your body and needs will also chane while you heal, so to be flexible, aware and patient while your body and diet evole is the trick to never getting stuck and never reverting to old patterns of bad eating.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Yes, under-consumption of calories can be very stressful, especially if there isn't plenty of body fat and glycogen reserves, or metabolism of fat or carbs is poor, and it also makes one even lower-carb on a daily grams intake basis.

People with alcohol cravings tend to have deficiencies in some key nutrients, like zinc and B vitamins (such as B6), and I suspect that inadequate levels of the microbes that help produce, metabolize or absorb these nutrients is a likely key factor in this.

Jeff Leach has reported that one of the key things his GI microbiome research reveals as supporting a healthy microbiome is eating a wide variety of plant species. He aims for eating 30-40 different plant species each week!!!  :o ;D Sweet potatoes + apples + pears = 3 species, which is nowhere near Leach's intakes. He reported that LC Paleoists who do his GI microbiome test have been showing subpar microbiomes little or no better than those of SADers, IIRC.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 07:17:50 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline badboy9311

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Jeff Leach has reported that one of the key things his GI microbiome research reveals as supporting a healthy microbiome is eating a wide variety of plant species. He aims for eating 30-40 different plant species each week!!!  :o ;D Sweet potatoes + apples + pears = 3 species, which is nowhere near Leach's intakes. He reported that LC Paleoists who do his GI microbiome test have been showing subpar microbiomes little or no better than those of SADers, IIRC.

You have no idea how much down the rabbit hole you've sent me down by typing that name in the reply..holy
I thought I know enough about diet stuff but turns out I know nothing.
Interestingly enough he holds a pretty consistent view with Raw Paleo Diet that promotes healthy microbial in gut flora
I'm currently soaking up more of the knowledge..I've also ordered a prebiotic supplement and we'll see how that helps.

----------------------




Offline PaleoPhil

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Yeah, I recall Jeff commenting once that he basically eats "Paleo," including lots of fatty Paleo foods, but he also eats lots of fibery/prebiotic plants, and many different species, including tubers. Good luck with it. Of course, I'm not telling you what to do and there's no guarantee that the particular things that Leach is doing are best, and the GI microbiome tests may not be highly accurate or representative of a full year, and there is still much to be learned. Still, I do think it's rather suspicious that so few LC gurus have gotten their GI microbiomes tested and published the results (the couple I saw do so had subpar results). What are they afraid of? It they're going to tell others what to eat, then they should put up or shut up. :)
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline van

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It simply may be that they just aren't interested,  or that they feel that any so called sub par results found may not jive with how they are feeling.   Maybe if you showed us 'those' results here, and pointed out what sub par means, it would help us understand better.
    Also, as I have mentioned before,   I don't know if for someone who's eating a high fat diet would be better off receiving there lipids from fermenting fiber.  But obviously someone who doesn't have access to high fat foods, might very well be better off eating RS to encourage gut production.
   I watched a show showing the African 'baboons' living on the high peaks surviving mostly on grass, grass bulbs, and roots ( also in other studies they go to mention the inclusion of insects and small mammals). It was interesting to discover the different theories as to how they could digest these grasses with out the stomachs of a cow and or hind gut fermentation and overeating as does a horse.    They speculated that they received enough nutrition due to their molars being able to grind to small particles.  But then again, they mentioned eating the bulbs of the grasses, and hence your previously mentioned info on the RS found in grass bulbs.     I would (except for taste) just as soon have a diet of grasses etc, if it could produce the same results found on my low carb diet; and not have to kill animals for my food,, even though I do believe I am supporting life by paying grass fed farmers to breed animals that wouldn't have been able to walk the earth or grassy fields otherwise.    And it does support the grass fed movement vs. having animals suffer during the traditional feed lot existence.

Offline badboy9311

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Did a GS-style egg yolk liver flush this morning, went to bed and passed out for an hour
Felt funny sensation from the right side of digestive system..either it's the liquid swirling or it's actually triggering my liver to do stuff..I don't know honestly, have yet to be able to see "stones"

My eczema for the last several days have spread from my body to neck, then to my back, and further down to my upper thighs (genital area) It's as if the raw diet is triggering it stronger.

Trying taking raw garlic for better liver detox, so I took 1 clove on 5th december, 2 clove on 6th december. just chopped up and washed down with water.

Got minimum bloating from 1 clove but 2 clove really gave me some gas and bloating .

This itching during nighttime thing is killing my skin healing. I'd scratch so much overnight that my bed would end up with build up of dry flakes and bloody flakes.

Currently diet regime
Clementine (3-4)
Pear (1-2)
Sweet Potato (1-2)
Raw beef roast + Marrow Bone fat (usually 1 bone + several steak sized meat chopped up)
Garlic (1-2 cloves)
Psyillium husk + Colon aid pills from ages ago that probably lost its effectiveness..
Zeolite from health force (but apparently if I still haven't gotten out my mercury in my mouth I shouldn't do metal detox?), so I'm taking this back out for now..
Vitamin D3 from NOW, about 3000 IU (either taken with Blue Ice/ Fatty Meal)
Kelp and Dulse (about 900 mcg of iodine)
Magnesium drink (i'll detail the brand later..) for magnesium 1-2 cup throughout the day.


Offline van

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Garlic can be hard on the stomach lining.   Best to have with food, and instead of chopping up, try fine grating it.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Van, Your sentiments largely fit with what I mentioned above and what I have mentioned before--that there's still much to learn and no guarantee that the particular things that Leach is doing are best for everyone and that he embraces fatty foods. I recall him saying his diet was both high in fat and fermentable fiber (though he didn't specify fat grams or %, and I doubt he has calculated it, so his sense of it could be off). Also, my mention of this or that person or their research isn't intended to suggest guru worship or prescribe for others (as I explained with Ray Peat), just spark curiosity and discussion.

I already provided the results of LC Paleoists Brent Pottenger and Laura Schoenfeld vs ex-VLC Paleoist Tatertot Tim Steele, as well as Jeff Leach's data on LCers and his own high-fiber vs low-fiber results:

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/gcb-eating-meat-is-harmful/msg119969/#msg119969

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/gcb-eating-meat-is-harmful/msg120277/#msg120277

I also don't know if the reverse holds true--if someone who's eating a diet high in diverse plant foods would be better off receiving their lipids from ingesting animal fat and avoiding many plant foods. Jeff Leach actually tested it out to a certain degree by necessity and you can interpret the results for yourself:

Jeff Leach's New Orleans to Desert (High fiber vs Low fiber) GI microbiome results
http://humanfoodproject.com/going-feral-one-year-journey-acquire-healthiest-gut-microbiome-world-heard

He also raised concerns about it:

Can a high fat Paleo Diet cause obesity and diabetes? Maybe, unless
Posted by Jeff Leach on 24 Jun 2012
http://humanfoodproject.com/can-a-high-fat-paleo-diet-cause-obesity-and-diabetes

Sorry low carbers, your microbiome is just not that into you
Posted by Jeff Leach on 26 Jun 2013 in Human Food Project | 18 comments
http://humanfoodproject.com/sorry-low-carbers-your-microbiome-is-just-not-that-into-you

This is not about proving anything, it's about asking questions, keeping an open mind, considering other possibilities beyond VLC/keto doctrine, and checking a variety of sources.

When someone mentions problems with various versions of allegedly "Paleo" diets, a common refrain at this forum and others where there is some degree of LC leaning is to recommend "eat more fat" to anyone and for just about any problem. A Global Moderator at Cavemanforum.com used to have a forum signature that said: "The answer to your question is eat more fat." More and more people are starting to question that blanket prescription.
 
You're right about feed lots. If Leach is right about diet biodiversity being generally beneficial, then that would also fit nicely with ecological biodiversity.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Inger

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I do not really believe in fiber for gut health at all.

I do high heart. Full of bacteria.. and tastes great too
Then, I do fish head smoothies. Lots of bacteria there too...
I eat wild herbs from the ground, I never wash them. Or dirty carrots from the garden in summer time.

My gut health was not good when I believed in the fiber dogma. It as really bad and I had to take enemas all the time and I had bloating and stuff... and I ate lots of cassia fistula. Yeah. After I ditched fruit and veggies i am loving my gut,... it just do not bother me.... and I am not constipated, I go every morning like clock work.  I need no enemas, no cassia... my gut is just happy :)

cheers :)



Offline PaleoPhil

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Cassia fistula didn't agree with me either. Good to hear of your continued success.   :)
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline badboy9311

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I'm honestly at a point that I think it's a fluctuation from fruits, starch, vegetables and etc..it's seasonal, it's dependent on what they can get at the moment and what's around them.
Possibly there's a large part of it being genetics as well, such as some people are better at digesting fiber and some people better at meat after generations/ epigenetics.
However, I do think that on a large scale, all things sort of work out evenly..

---------------

Any recommendation on faster healing of skin? it's hurting me like crap..And I'm not quite sure where to go from here again..My skin health got me tunnel visioned and I'd really love some guidance..

--------------------------

Was going to go downtown and check for probiotics to go with my prebiotics that i've purchased already. Thought it'd be cheaper without having to pay for shipping..

Current strategy - Upping calorie intake (eat as much as I feel like), Raw food only
Detoxes from GS instructions. (Egg yolk liver flushes..Testing it atm)
Keep warm by drinking hot ginger tea..
Garlic for further liver detox
-------------------

Not sleeping well at all..Inflammation still spreading everywhere.

-----------------

And thanks for all the sharing of information..I really appreciate it.
I'm not doing this just for myself either..I want the future generations to come never have to go through what I had.

Offline van

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I do not really believe in fiber for gut health at all.

I do high heart. Full of bacteria.. and tastes great too
Then, I do fish head smoothies. Lots of bacteria there too...
I eat wild herbs from the ground, I never wash them. Or dirty carrots from the garden in summer time.

My gut health was not good when I believed in the fiber dogma. It as really bad and I had to take enemas all the time and I had bloating and stuff... and I ate lots of cassia fistula. Yeah. After I ditched fruit and veggies i am loving my gut,... it just do not bother me.... and I am not constipated, I go every morning like clock work.  I need no enemas, no cassia... my gut is just happy :)

cheers :)




Inger, I'm wondering;   if you experimented with leaving veggies in your diet while removing fruit.    You do mention wild greens, which I do in the form of dandelion greens, and sea weeds,, both of which are good sources for gut fermentation.   I also like radishes, some kales, celery, sun chokes, cucumber and others. 
    I think the difference might be in making a whole big meal repeatedly out of salad, and eating fruit often,   vs.   nibbling on wild or separate sources of greens or other veggies. 
   Regarding Cassia.  I am wondering you how you did it?   Did you take one or two on an empty stomach and wait some time before eating?  And then add one more each day until things started moving.     Here's a funny story; before I went to Montrame for the first time and didn't have much knowledge about instincto,,  I ordered some cassia sticks.   I thought the instructions were to eat till there was a stop.    Here's the wild part;  I ate the discs and swallowed them, not knowing you are supposed to suck off the  coating only.  I ate one whole stick.   I then went straight away  to the gym and it hit me there.  Boy between the sharp broken pieces of discs and the many many discs in a whole large stick,  I was in trouble for a whole day.     But since then for quite some time I found them to be quite cleansing.  I was never constipated, they just seemed to cleanse deep within the body.    A couple of times while traveling and haven eaten something bad, they really pulled me through.   Hence the question about how you used them.   

Offline van

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Thanks Phil, I'll take a close look at your references.

Offline van

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Van, Your sentiments largely fit with what I mentioned above and what I have mentioned before--that there's still much to learn and no guarantee that the particular things that Leach is doing are best for everyone and that he embraces fatty foods. I recall him saying his diet was both high in fat and fermentable fiber (though he didn't specify fat grams or %, and I doubt he has calculated it, so his sense of it could be off). Also, my mention of this or that person or their research isn't intended to suggest guru worship or prescribe for others (as I explained with Ray Peat), just spark curiosity and discussion.

I already provided the results of LC Paleoists Brent Pottenger and Laura Schoenfeld vs ex-VLC Paleoist Tatertot Tim Steele, as well as Jeff Leach's data on LCers and his own high-fiber vs low-fiber results:

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/gcb-eating-meat-is-harmful/msg119969/#msg119969

http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/instinctoanopsology/gcb-eating-meat-is-harmful/msg120277/#msg120277

I also don't know if the reverse holds true--if someone who's eating a diet high in diverse plant foods would be better off receiving their lipids from ingesting animal fat and avoiding many plant foods. Jeff Leach actually tested it out to a certain degree by necessity and you can interpret the results for yourself:

Jeff Leach's New Orleans to Desert (High fiber vs Low fiber) GI microbiome results
http://humanfoodproject.com/going-feral-one-year-journey-acquire-healthiest-gut-microbiome-world-heard

He also raised concerns about it:

Can a high fat Paleo Diet cause obesity and diabetes? Maybe, unless
Posted by Jeff Leach on 24 Jun 2012
http://humanfoodproject.com/can-a-high-fat-paleo-diet-cause-obesity-and-diabetes

Sorry low carbers, your microbiome is just not that into you
Posted by Jeff Leach on 26 Jun 2013 in Human Food Project | 18 comments
http://humanfoodproject.com/sorry-low-carbers-your-microbiome-is-just-not-that-into-you

This is not about proving anything, it's about asking questions, keeping an open mind, considering other possibilities beyond VLC/keto doctrine, and checking a variety of sources.

When someone mentions problems with various versions of allegedly "Paleo" diets, a common refrain at this forum and others where there is some degree of LC leaning is to recommend "eat more fat" to anyone and for just about any problem. A Global Moderator at Cavemanforum.com used to have a forum signature that said: "The answer to your question is eat more fat." More and more people are starting to question that blanket prescription.
 
You're right about feed lots. If Leach is right about diet biodiversity being generally beneficial, then that would also fit nicely with ecological biodiversity.

Just read the article about high fat leading to diabetes,,,
    I get frustrated with articles like this one.  First it uses mice to 'indicate' we people would react the same way.  There are so Many variables here.   What fat source were the mice fed? Was it rancid or oxidized. What fat group was it from.  What other foods did the mice consume with it, suggesting there might have been substantial binding of fat and sugar present in the blood, thus causing inflammation all by itself.  Were the mice in an environment where they could exercise and self regulate food intake?  And of course fat has probably never been a major source of fuel for mice to begin with, as has been indicated for humans. 
   My point is I do believe there's much benefit to gut biome, but I think when cherry picked articles like this are used to promote.. it can read similar to the articles why vegetarianism is king.     
    I'll read more later. 
    But, to the suggestion made by that forum leader,, 'eat more fat'.  I think it may have great benefits, because,  most eat way Too much protein in the beginning which is quite toxic in the long run, and will cause all sorts of problems.    But I do like eat as much fat that appeals to you, eat moderate amounts of protein,  and nibble on prebiotics throughout the day,,   a lot better. 

Offline badboy9311

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Quite honestly I don't even think carb content matter as much as the type of carb
Genetics is probably the biggest factor here - How strong is the digestive system for that person? How good is he tolerated with various pathogens and gut bacteria? How fast can he eliminate those pathogens and LPS within the system..?

It's most likely people who have came to this forum are all people with sub-optimal genetics incompatible with the modern lifestyle, which is high carb +/- fiber part, moderate or high fat (usually bad fat such as omega-6, trans-fat) , and develop all sorts of problem.

When you see people walking around with their SAD diet and having absolutely no problem, just intrigues me how genetic variation can be such a contribution.

So likewise, it's totally possible that some of us are better at ZC, low-carb, high carb, high fiber..whatsoever..dependent on gut flora content.

This carb debate always seem to strike me as something we probably won't solve and unlikely to be solved soon enough. I guess looking at energy requirement in your body for glucose and how much by default your body converts fat/protein into glucose may help us understand that part - sort of like the paul jaminent approach, if you've read the carb part of his book.

I almost think of it as various purposes for each diet - if you do exercise on the regular, having no carbohydrate in your diet (ZC/Low Carb) seem to be a problem, as you'll lack energy
While at the same time, there are odd cases where a bodybuilder has advocated ZC approach to body building, then carb loading on the weekends. Regardless of what people view bodybuilding as - it is one of the extreme sports where people actually have to be at utmost health shape to participate in (speaking of those who use no drugs of course) I've yet to seen someone who've achieve real consistent progress without injuries and good lean gains if they're eating crappy.

All I really wanted to say is, I really doubt carb content is the problem here - even though it's such a heated topic in this forum or other paleo forum. Your body does have innate mechanism to make up for it if you eat enough calorie from protein + fat..so only role carb control has in place is therapeutic usage. Again, sort of how people have been using it anyways. Some people use ZC to get rid of cancer (went on mainstream with the Ketogenic diet of bacon, butter, eggs etc), some people use mod-high carb to deal with temperature issues.

The variance really tells one thing - My theory is that it doesn't matter as much as we make a deal of it to be. 

Offline van

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I agree, and,  I also say for those who want to know what carbs or sugar is doing to their insulin or blood sugar levels, and what effect that may have long term on health, there is plenty of information to discover and ponder, if not test for one self.  But one has to be able to allow for change.   I for one, for many years bought up the notion if it's fruit, or if it's raw, the sugar or carbs won't hurt you. 

Offline PaleoPhil

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But I do like eat as much fat that appeals to you, eat moderate amounts of protein,  and nibble on prebiotics throughout the day,,   a lot better.
This appears to actually fit with Jeff Leach's approach. Agreement is not required, but it's interesting and welcome when it occurs.

Quite honestly I don't even think carb content matter as much as the type of carb
Genetics is probably the biggest factor here - How strong is the digestive system for that person? How good is he tolerated with various pathogens and gut bacteria? How fast can he eliminate those pathogens and LPS within the system..?
Yes, you made some good points, such as these, if I may paraphrase them to summarize:

1) There are "good" carbs as well as "bad" carbs (more precisely, there are good carby foods as well as bad ones), just as you and Gary Taubes suggested that there are "good" fats as well as "bad" fats (and this is partly dependent on the overall balances).   
2) How badly carbs impact you depends in part on how robust/antifragile you are to shocks from stressors like too much bad carbs at one blow (due to how strong the digestive, microbial, mitochondrial and other systems are).
3) (A corrolary to #2) It's not just important how many toxins you consume, but also how well your sytem works to detoxify them. So we should look at the whole systemic picture, not just toxin avoidance.

While genetics is a factor, the 90% of the genes in your body that are in microbes may be more important than the 10% that are in your cells. Plus, changeable epigenetics and horizontal gene transfer may be more important than fixed genetics.

Quote
Again, sort of how people have been using it anyways. Some people use ZC to get rid of cancer (went on mainstream with the Ketogenic diet of bacon, butter, eggs etc), some people use mod-high carb to deal with temperature issues.
Ketogenic diets are not a slam-dunk treatment for all cancers. It came out that some cancer cells may also feed on ketones, and thus ketogenic diets are not recommended for certain forms of cancer. You won't often see this disclosed by LC advocates, though Dr. Eugene Fine, cancer researcher at Albert Einstein College of Medicine and LC diet advocate who uses a ketogenic diet as a therapy, did candidly acknowledge the issue:

"Some cancers may indeed depend on ketone bodies. Our hypothesis, in fact states that some cancers may be adapted to the effects of carb restriction, including ketosis (i.e. may continue to grow), and others may be vulnerable to ketosis." http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/do-ketones-fuel-cancer-the-low-carb-experts-respond/10124

Recent research has been investigating this issue:

Ketone body utilization by breast and prostate tumors
Simon Authier1, Sebastien Tremblay1, Veronique Dumulon1, Celena Dubuc1, Rene Ouellet1, Roger Lecomte1, Stephen Cunnane2 and Francois Benard1
J Nucl Med. 2007; 48 (Supplement 2):340P
http://tinyurl.com/p5js8xh

Ketones and lactate "fuel" tumor growth and metastasis: Evidence that epithelial cancer cells use oxidative mitochondrial metabolism.
Bonuccelli G1, Tsirigos A, Whitaker-Menezes D, Pavlides S, Pestell RG, Chiavarina B, Frank PG, Flomenberg N, Howell A, Martinez-Outschoorn UE, Sotgia F, Lisanti MP.
Cell Cycle. 2010 Sep 1;9(17):3506-14. Epub 2010 Sep 21.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20818174

New studies explain how cancer cells 'eat us alive'
Sep 01, 2010
http://www.physorg.com/news202553643.html
"Four key studies now propose a new theory about how cancer cells grow and survive, allowing researchers to design better diagnostics and therapies to target high-risk cancer patients. These studies were conducted by a large team of researchers at Thomas Jefferson University’s Kimmel Cancer Center."

A lactate shuttle system between tumour and stromal cells is associated with poor prognosis in prostate cancer.
Pértega-Gomes N, Vizcaíno JR, Attig J, Jurmeister S, Lopes C, Baltazar F1.
BMC Cancer. 2014 May 21;14:352. doi: 10.1186/1471-2407-14-352.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24886074

The reverse warburg effect in osteosarcoma.
Oncotarget. 2014 Sep 30;5(18):7982-3.
Sotgia F1, Martinez-Outschoorn UE, Lisanti MP1.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25327555

A reverse Warburg metabolism in oral squamous cell carcinoma is not dependent upon myofibroblasts.
Jensen DH1, Therkildsen MH, Dabelsteen E.
J Oral Pathol Med. 2014 Nov 25. doi: 10.1111/jop.12297.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25420473

I agree, and,  I also say for those who want to know what carbs or sugar is doing to their insulin or blood sugar levels, and what effect that may have long term on health, there is plenty of information to discover and ponder, if not test for one self.  But one has to be able to allow for change.   I for one, for many years bought up the notion if it's fruit, or if it's raw, the sugar or carbs won't hurt you.
And I would add one of Iguana's favorite heuristic's--Claude Bernard's "the terrain is everything." It's a bit of an exaggeration, but how harmful or beneficial the fruit or sugar is depends in great measure on how well equipped the terrain/milieu/environment/habitat (pH of the intestines, GI microbiome, mitochondria, cell fitness, genetics, epigenetics, and so on) is to handle it. The hypothesis is that if you can find a way to improve that terrain, then fewer carby foods will be harmful for you and those that are still harmful will be less so.
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline badboy9311

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Update - Was going to do 2nd day of Egg Yolk Liver flush and test it out, then realize I ran out of lemons.
I can't get good quality sleep at all..waking up in the middle of the night because of scratching..eczema is literally spreading everywhere for me and the wounds keep trying to heal, while it's too dry and itchy that I end up scratching them all off .

I've already got a humidifier and I'm doing a raw diet now. The inflammation isn't stopping, and my skin is getting drier and drier
Maybe it's the die off effect, or whatever that systemic circulation of toxins from the die off pathogens
Or maybe i've lost my recovering ability? I don't god damn know
I'm on the edge and the rubber band is so tight it's gonna snap soon.

-------------------

Upping my fat content and making my meat order again tomorrow, Getting 25 Lbs for the Winter..What should I get? I'll try to get as much fatty meat as possible but I remember hearing from you guys that suet is a bad idea..

--------------------------------------

Diet for the day: 1lb of fatty ground beef
Beef liver (as much as I want up to 1 lb)
2 Marrow Bones
Sweet Potatos
X cutting out citrus fruit for now..
Iodine 900-1000mcg from NOW
Blue Ice + High Vitamin Butter Oil
Vitamin D3 (5000 IU)
Had some green tea yesterday and might have some today to keep myself sane..or just ginger tea.
My brain isn't functioning right..I'm feeling the mental stress build up from academics + this is going to snap me very soon in half ..Something has got to be wrong in my diet or something..The inflammation just isn't stopping..

The Liver flush didn't give me much coming out..but I also only did one without an enema after so I can't be sure about that

------------------

Going to downtown and buy some supplements today for Colon + Liver aid..that's my target now..
Suggestions ?
I'm thinking something like castor oil+ NAC supplement(for liver detox) + Vitamin D3 + Compare probiotic prices

--------------------

Restricting diet time frame to 12-8pm to encourage fasting (autophagy) so I'm only eating in between 12-8, probably 2 big meals. Other times only water/ Green Tea...

How did I do this last time..?
1st time Full cooked paleo diet over 6 months..
2nd time raw + Cooked paleo mix over 2-3 months, Vitamin D3 + LBB capsule formula + Some psyillium husk..
3rd time - This was just some fluctuation in symptoms due to a job in the kitchen, so I ditched the job, cut down on alcohol a whole lot then got well..
4th time (this time) - Going raw paleo diet (raw marrow bone + ground beef + roast cut + Liver) except cooked sweet potato right now..Fruits are ranging from pears, clementine to bananas and lemons. cutting fruits out for now?
Supplementing with Vitamin D3 + Blue Ice Fish oil + butter oil + Kelp and Dulse for Iodine

Where do i go from here?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 11:21:44 pm by badboy9311 »

Offline Inger

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Well.... I would say;

stop the iodine. I got real bad detox from it once and after that I am careful. I am not saying it can be useful but I would just go for raw seafood and seaweed. Way safer and better. I see no seafood in your menu...? You need DHA... helps the skin heal too. You really need to load on oysters, mussels, fatty wild caught fish.......
Stop vit D supps if you are really not sure what you are doing. They can make stuff worse.......... especially in a heavy nnEMF environment. If you can find a UVB tanning bed you could try that, it makes vitD though the skin... and even better... do tanning if it is possible where you live. Nude tanning is very healing.

Cut the sugar (fruit)

No fish oil... but real raw seafood instead.

How is you nnEMF (non native electromagnetic fields) situation?
Do you live in a city?
How is it at work?
Do you use the computer much, are there wifi signals where you live and sleep?

Are you spending time out in the nature, in the woods.... are you going early to bed or are you staying up long in front of artificial lights?

Are you drinking plenty of good quality well/spring water (glass bottles only!)?

It is not only the food..................

Offline goodsamaritan

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I agree with Inger.
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Offline jessica

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I also agree with inger.  Cut fruit and iodine and make sure you are getting a full range if fats.' iodine is very harsh and I believe too concentrated a dose might also kill off beneficial bacteria.  Have tried aging meats yet?  What is your reaction to raw dairy, if you have a source?  Could you make yogurt?  My boyfriend is healing from horrible rosacea and has some psoriasis on the scalp, which are different symptoms but I believe they arise from similar causes and adding raw milk has helped his skin improve, it went from tight, inflamed and dry/flaking to much more supple, the inflamation is almost gone and it only flakes in the places that are still healing.  He has suffered from horrible constipation in his life and now proudly proclaims he is having "shits that should be worshiped". I think the stress from school is probably causing you as much trouble as anything right now.  Do you get a break soon??

Offline badboy9311

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Well.... I would say;


It is not only the food..................

I'll go from the top to bottom..
I'm in the middle of Ontario where there's basically limited possibility of seafood (either farmed, or really expensive wild caught fish that's not even fatty)
Mussels taste bad unless I cook them. Salmon are farmed
I might try to get some seaweed from the Asian store but this town is so westernized that I can barely get anything like seafood from good source..(the only reasonable priced and convenient is the supermarket, but at the same time it's just all frozen anyways..)
I'm in university right now, sharing an apartment that has Wifi always turned on. I'm barely getting any sunlight because it's so cold out and I could barely move with my aching body. I try to go out but I'm also very busy because I couldn't concentrate at work at all the whole term from life stress..so one thing leading to another I have a lot to catch up on right now.

And ya, tanning is right out of the question. I could barely go out and not die in the cold winter, let alone nude tan.

I guess if Iodine is what you guys think should be stopped I'll cut that out and see how it works. same for Vitamin D.

Re Jessica
I don't have a source for raw dairy here, I've tried.
Neither do I really am good at tolerating dairy anyways. I'll try again when I have time to look for raw milk I guess.
I wish I can get some seafood here but that's almost certainly out of the option.All I can get here is frozen sea food if i remember coorectly...even the ones that aren't frozen are just thawed out seafood Oysters are selling at almost enough for 4-5 lbs of meat.


Should I still get frozen sea food (wild caught) then? or even farmed?
what about those mussels that taste bad when raw but taste fine when cooked?
How beneficial is oyster going to be..I'm still a student so i don't have that much money


nnEMF is horrible for me because I really could not have it any other way. I live with 2 other people that has wifi up all the time anyways. I have electronic plugs near my bed as well. I can move them around but I try to put the humidifier right beside me so I get the room up to more humidity .

Basically I'm really in the city, and I don't get to go out much really. I'm just not even in the shape to go out..

================

I'll try to get some seafood sources..or raw milk..or whatever..tanning bed doesn't seem like plausible for me in short term.
I'll try to find some seaweed at the chinese store too.
my body is literally crumbling to pieces and my mind isn't even working right..
I'm basically moving from my bed to my desk and working, or sleeping. I was out briefly yesterday for some social stuff but other than that I don't go out much.

Water
I'm drinking the crappy tap water as of now with chloride and flourine and stuff..the spring water is way out of budget here..if I buy spring water they come in plastic..If i buy glass spring water it's way more money..I'll go broke in 1 month doing that.
-----------------------

I'm almost out of meat too so i'm making another order, i'll try to get something better and higher fat.


 

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