Author Topic: Raw fat  (Read 30131 times)

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Online TylerDurden

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Re: Raw fat
« Reply #75 on: December 29, 2008, 11:17:42 pm »
Look, there are 1000s of scientific studies done on AGEs, with several focusing on how the amounts of toxic AGEs in the body are directly related to conditions such as type 2 diabetes. Just google for such, they're all over the place. So that link between AGEs and ill-health is proven. Like I said, though, it's all a matter of degree, with less AGEs consumed being less worse than lots of AGEs consumed.

As regards the comment re AGEs in soups/broths, that's meaningless as peoples' diets nowadays include a vast range of foods, not just broths/soups, and I doubt that even hunter-gatherer tribes soley ate broths and soups for their cooked-foods - indeed, they ate plenty of
meats cooked without water on spits.

As regards the raw/cooked issue, I made a good point, there. Very few people mix cooked and raw at the same meal, nowadays. The average restaurant meal will  feature cooked meat and cooked veg, with a dessert involving pasteurised dairy or some such. Only rarely will people nowadays include a bit of raw fruit or raw veg at the same meal.

Re that list, I'm a little suspicious of the figures, as they don't seem that high in other lists. But, yes, I grant that raw foods from animals raised on unhealthy, AGE-rich diets are also harmful. Mind you, this is part of rawpalaeo POV, anyway. I think I addressed this point, later on in that article, but I'll add an addendum to that comment, at some stage.

Re Weston-Price:- unfortunately, most of Weston-Price's findings have been contradicted by many other anthropologists. I was not happy to find out, for example, that the Maori were decidedly NOT super-healthy, despite Price's claims, given evidence of skeletal remains.

As regards the whole cholestrol/saturated fats issue, it's been pointed out by various sources that the reason for all those studies condemning saturated fats/cholesterol/animal foods, is really only because they're focusing on cooked animal foods  and are therefore not taking the levels of toxins in such cooked-foods into account, such as AGEs. Here's a relevant excerpt from the saturated fat wikipedia page:-

"Another confounding issue may be the formation of exogenous (outside the body) advanced glycation endproducts (AGEs) and oxidation products generated during cooking, which it appears some of the studies have not controlled for. It has been suggested that, "given the prominence of this type of food in the human diet, the deleterious effects of high-(saturated)fat foods may be in part due to the high content in glycotoxins, above and beyond those due to oxidized fatty acid derivatives." The glycotoxins, as he called them, are more commonly called AGEs"

One could argue that eating foods very low in AGEs, such as always eating grassfed meats, cooked as little as possible, making sure to cook only in water etc. etc.,  might reduce the burden of toxins in the body to so-called "manageable" levels. But to suggest something like that one would have to come up with plenty of scientific studies showing that such toxins are indeed tolerated at such low levels. In practice, because even the diets of hunter-gatherer tribes will include some AGE-rich foods, it is highly unlikely that anyone on a cooked-diet could ever realistically reduce the amounts of AGEs in their diet to low enough levels.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2008, 11:37:48 pm by TylerDurden »
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Offline avalon

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Re: Raw fat
« Reply #76 on: December 29, 2008, 11:34:18 pm »
Quote
As regards the comment re AGEs in soups/broths, that's meaningless as peoples' diets nowadays include a vast range of foods, not just broths/soups, and I doubt that even hunter-gatherer tribes soley ate broths and soups for their cooked-foods - indeed, they ate plenty of
meats cooked without water on spits.

Soups and broths may not be meaningless if that is your only source of cooked food.

Quote
As regards the raw/cooked issue, I made a good point, there. Very few people mix cooked and raw at the same meal, nowadays. The average restaurant meal will  feature cooked meat and cooked veg, with a dessert involving pasteurised dairy or some such. Only rarely will people nowadays include a bit of raw fruit or raw veg at the same meal.


But your point is mute. Why? Because you're totally dissing all the people! I guess only this forum can change their diet and be healthy when MOST people are out eating in restaurants and BADLY! We just pray and hope they stumble onto this site and save their sorry meaningless asses  >D God forbid someone other than the people here at Raw Paleo should have the strength to balance raw and cooked foods beyond 10%. Hell, very few people eat Raw Paleo! Do you have any idea how what you say sounds?

Long Live Raw Paleo!

And everyone else who's doing well eating the way they eat and stuff  ???

 

Online TylerDurden

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Re: Raw fat
« Reply #77 on: December 29, 2008, 11:47:39 pm »

for the record:
any1 who has actually read cunnane's book knows well that the aquatic ape theory & cunnane's shore based scenario are not 1 & the same -- even though cunnane is friends w/ & seems to have learned from crawford & elaine morgan

while i learned a thing or 2 from my parents, i am not 1 & the same w/ them

perhaps we all can use some dietary dha to clear up mental cloudiness, misconceptions, dogmatic presuppositions...?

Don't jump to conclusions. I mentioned the Aquatic Ape theory and the meat-theory as they are at extremes to each other. The shoreline-based thoery of human evolution is simply a compromise between the two. It's anyway problematic as it assumes that humans would have had to have mostly lived near shorelines for much of their evolutionary history - an unlikely prospect.
Quote
re. schopenhauer's philosophy:
where & on what grounds does he draw the line?
why appreciating money = bad whereas appreciating health = good?
is health nonphysical (sort of spiritual) in his view, whereas money is just paper or plastic?
why are money & drugs in the same category?
[/color]

The point is that if you're not healthy, then you can't really fully appreciate the other things in life.

Schopenhauer pointed out that we are constantly aiming at higher states of being/emotional arousal and that these are largely unnecessary. Those goals can take many forms such as money, sex, wealth, drugs, or whatever. But he pointed out that these things are illusions - for example, money actually has no intrinsic value except what humans give it. It's just pieces of paper and metal, ultimately.

If you look at it from Schopenhauer's POV, it all makes sense. Sure one can take drugs to enhance one's life(for example, my doctor uncle is effectively addicted to pain-killers to cope with the joints that he ruined as a result of his SAD diet), but it's better to control one's own emotional state without needing crutches such as wealth in order to feel good about oneself.

"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline RawZi

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Re: Raw fat
« Reply #78 on: November 24, 2009, 12:57:50 pm »
The Vet said weeks to months for Goopy my Cat. He's pretty much acting alright, right now. It's just difficult.

...

Best wishes everyone  -d

    I hope everything went best with your cat and you.

The reason why modern cats can survive(albeit with il-health) long enough to reproduce further generations is only because processed-cat-food-suppliers deliberately supplement their cat-feeds with artificial doses of taurine - if they didn't, the cats would get taurine-deficiency, much like they did in Pottenger's Experiments, with the inevitable results.

RAW fat over cooked fat being one of them.  Of course in a raw paleo forum it will be natural to encounter people who have experienced and read studies that convinced them that raw paleo is the way to go... that raw fat is the way to go.

The only thing I can see in all these arguments so far is that those who are pushing cooked fat only do so because they have the opinion cooked fats taste better (because of the condiments and the cooking they are used to).

I have yet to see someone push that cooked fat is BETTER -HEALTHIER than raw fat.

In my opinion, cooked fat will always be inferior because:

- molecular structure has changed because of cooking
- condiments are not necessarily beneficial and may in fact be harmful sometimes
- most cooking introduces pollutants from the flame, from the wood, from the gas / fuel, from the cooking pot / utensils, from the method of cooking... some cooking styles are more harmful than others...

... 

...  In my case, I just want to live, and so far raw everything / raw paleo including raw fats has been working best for me.  Now I can see a future for myself... instead of death at 40... maybe a good strong healthy life at 120.

    Interestingly enough, from what I've been googling all evening,  taurine helps us with fats, gall bladder, brain connections and choline.
"Genuine truth angers people in general because they don't know what to do with the energy generated by a glimpse of reality." Greg W. Goodwin

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Re: Raw fat
« Reply #79 on: November 24, 2009, 10:03:33 pm »
   

    Interestingly enough, from what I've been googling all evening,  taurine helps us with fats, gall bladder, brain connections and choline.

Enough taurine is also essential for normal heart beat rhythm in both humans and animals.

 

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