Author Topic: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?  (Read 35203 times)

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Offline Dr. D

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #50 on: July 02, 2013, 12:53:21 am »
My friend who is a psych major said "PMS is purely a North American phenomenon." I guess in Europe or other parts of the world women don't get bitchy and whiney before their period.

In that blog the lady only talks about plant based raw diets. I don't see how people do it. I'd be hungry all day. I'd have to eat all day long foraging like a cow to survive.

My dogs took to eating raw fairly easily but that's also cause we tossed them chunks of raw meat every now and then so they were used to it. Organs however they were a little slow to take to. It's a common thing for many people's animals to nearly starve out (some peoples dog's not eating for 3-4 days) before deciding that the slab of raw beef in front of them is actually nutritious. Within a week or two, however, they are always jumping and excited at dinner time. If you're curious of the anecdotal evidence of pictures of dogs becoming healthier through a raw diet:

Yet with that present there are still people that believe myths about feeding raw to dogs.

People do not go through life with their brains. They use emotions. People that are unhealthy/overweight/diseased don't look at food as healing/harming. They see it as tastes good/bad. No other category exists. Sometimes an addition is supplemented with that of good=unhealthy/bad=healthy and the principal is carried out in "I ate something healthy so I can treat myself to something like a donut"

It's honestly the same principle that drug addicts have: "I'm
  • (x is negative state: tired, hungry, angry, lonely, pain, etc.) so I DESERVE [y] (y is something that makes me feel better: donut, sugar, chocolate, cigarette, beer, meth, etc.) And again, you wont convince an addict to not use. They have to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #51 on: July 02, 2013, 01:20:05 am »
In my humble opinion the worst way to promote raw paleo is by encouraging others to follow our diet. I'm sure none of us can stand the way vegans, vetetarians, paleo dieters, ZCers, etc. CONSTANTLY promote what they're doing as the best and greatest thing for health. So there's no reason we should be doing that to other people.

Although many people know of how I eat, I NEVER encourage others to eat raw paleo. Although I will admit when I first started, like most newbies, I had the weird fixation of wanting to get others to start eating raw too. Now I could care less. I'm very happy to have my diet, supplements, etc. and if other people see I'm getting good results they're more than welcome to ask me for tips (which has happened once or twice). But I gave up trying to get people to eat raw a long time ago. Even when people are discussing their health problems around me I keep quiet unless I'm asked.

It is interesting though how I've progressed on raw paleo. Originally I wanted everyone to eat raw. I talked to people about it, etc. Now I rarely mention my diet unless someone brings it up.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Poncho

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #52 on: July 02, 2013, 01:27:17 am »
Wait, what?
Are you thinking that I was trying to say that I dont understand raw being good for pets?
I know that raw is the way for everyone haha
Animals and people alike. Because we're all animals, I think a lot of the world 'knows' that, but they don't really know. Ya know? haha

ps have you seen the quantities that the healthy raw vegans need to consume daily?
Insane. I like the idea of having enough nutrients in my body to be able to handle missing a meal once in a while.

I beg to differ. People are pretty far gone, but never too far gone.
I hope you've seen on tv what people can overcome.. and I mean, thats just what the tv is showing us.
I've heard of people overcoming crazier things too.
I'm sure a bunch of people on this forum know stories of people overcoming.

Everyones sick and not being taught not to use their brains, I think thats correct.
They need to be woken up. They aren't dead, right? So we can wake them up.
It's obviously going to be difficult, but maybe thats not where you want to help change the world?
There are many ways.
The thought that they will be earth's superman probably leads to a lot of disappointment, and then these people get kinda snappy and not okay with others thinking they can make a difference? I dont know. It doesnt make much sense to me.

No, I wont become wonder-woman. I never thought I would? Thats ridiculous. I want to play my part in fixing the world.
I don't think i'll get credit, or ever see the results with my own eyes, but I am not interested in the fame.
I just want to help.
I'll help by doing as much as I possibly can to educate and turn people's lives around
I've already educated a few people and it feels good. You can see it in their eyes, they are interested.
When they ask questions, you know that they are interested.
Im literally telling people that this is the right way to eat, and then providing so much personal experience and facts that they gain real interest. Everyone starts off defensive, because theyre being told that theyve been doing it wrong.
Then after the explanation, they ask questions, then more and more questions.
Eventually they know enough for me to be sure they are waking up. My job is done once they start waking up, from that point on it's enjoyable.
It's a very slow process, you get a lot of shit, but its worth it if you can wake someone up.
And you always can, because they aren't dead, remember! It just may take a very long time.

It's very counter-productive to go around telling people to stop trying to help.
Lets all help instead of arguing about whether or not we should help.

Offline jessica

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #53 on: July 02, 2013, 04:27:06 am »
 menstration has been a marker of proper endocrine functioning for me.  I went for 5 years only have 2 periods, from the ages of 25-30, once I started to figure out I was really having some serious blood sugar issues, and I wasn't just an alcoholic or a binge eater, and as soon as I eliminated root veggies and the carbs came down(while still maintaining a good weight), my menstration started within 2 weeks, and has been on schedule, with the moon, with proper ovulation for 6 months.  I can tell my body is changing with this added boost of hormones, I can feel bones healing, my skin getting stronger, softer, clearer.  I feel more female then ever, I feel like procreating mentally and physically.  Honestly I have been devoid of wanting that for 5 years, absolutely no urge at all, tbh I haven't had sex for 4 because it hasn't been anything id even considered, and when I had the opportunity, intoxicated or not, it was just painful and uninteresting so it didn't happen. 

I think the markers of a womens cycle are really important to pay attention to, and the fluxuations of hormones and urges to fornicate come with heightened fertility during cycles.  I don't think its proper for them to be overly painful or draining feeling.  It should be noticeable when ones ovulating, and just before the actual mensus occurs.  These are just the physical aspects of the change in hormonal composition within the body and reproductive system.

I really think that people are still turned off by menstruation due to our cultures.  The book "the Great Cosmic Mother" really teaches the history of how womens cycles and traditions have been absolutely marred as a means to disempower .

Its also funny to me, for as much as vegans and health food folks are obsessed with "detoxing" why isn't menstruation  though of as this, a great cleansing and renewing of creation.

P.S. I am just saying don't get caught up in it all more then is good for you.  We can all participate well in this world if we keep ourselves healthy and lead by example.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 04:33:04 am by jessica »

Offline Poncho

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #54 on: July 02, 2013, 06:05:53 am »
yes yes I just think (know) that people are being mislead and it is leading them through a miserable empty life that concludes in an untimely death.
I'm a leader type person, thats nothing new.
See the accident happened, and I lost my mind. And with that, my ability to have a healthy body and to help others around me.
That was always my job, to make the good decisions and give the good advice.
I was 17, and I was actually able to help quite a few people.
Only with trivial kinda things like relationships and whatnot, but it was my purpose.
I was sharing not what I knew from my own experience, but what I could figure out.

Now I have all of this personal experience, as well as this incredible knowledge that is not widely known about at all.
Then everyone I know, I look at them and I see everything wrong with them.
Because I spent so much time searching for the answers to my problems, I understand their problems and how to spot them.
I can see where they hold their extra weight, they tell me about all of their problems, I see the massive mistakes they make when they act based on their emotions, ah! I see it all!
The list never ends.
And none of it is real! Well, it's real, but it doesnt have to be.
They arent just genetically programmed to have these issues, like they have been made to believe.

I just think back to grade 10, when my grandpa died of cancer.
And how maybe if I would have been able to learn all of this just a few years earlier, he might still be here.
And then I think of how many people have their family members and loved ones die, and they don't know that there are answers out there!

I feel obligated, to spread the word. To make people know, really KNOW. So that even if they kinda dismiss it, they will think back to what I said when someone they know needs it.

I can think of quite a few instances in my life where this knowledge would have come in handy.
even before my accident, I would have been open to it for sure.
I just wasn't looking for it, so I didn't find it of course.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #55 on: July 02, 2013, 07:01:07 am »
To clarify, and in case there's any misunderstanding, covert menstruation does not mean no menstruation. It means healthy menstruation with minimal or no external bleeding in which most or all of the menstrual blood is reabsorbed and possibly reused by the body and it's apparently the norm among wild primates and at least some traditional HG peoples, if the reports on this are accurate. Modernized humans and captive primates are reportedly the only animals on earth that commonly have overt menstruation. It's interesting and perhaps telling that scientists have not found an agreed-upon biological purpose for overt menstruation (many people assume that it gets rid of toxins, but I have yet to see any science supporting this notion, and this was addressed in the article I linked to in my last post).

To my embarrassment, I also used to dismiss vegan claims re: menstruation. Then it occurred to me that it's annoying when vegans dismiss Paleo and raw Paleo claims without looking them up and I was engaging in a bit of a double standard by not bothering to investigate their claims. I did so and found info supporting the existence of healthy covert menstruation.

There are negative health symptoms that may help distinguish whether one has a truly pathological condition involving amenorrhea vs. a benign or even beneficial phenomenon, some of which I listed in this past post: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/off-topic/amenorrhea/?action=post;quote=108037;last_msg=108072

Vitamin B6 (especially the P5P form) has been reported to reduce symptoms of pathological amenorrhea, PMS, morning sickness and menopause (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/934.html, http://www.terrytalksnutrition.com/weekly-articles/2012/04-27/the-life-saving-value-of-pyridoxal-5-phosphate-p5p-and-magnesium, http://tinyurl.com/mk4ugmu).
Quote
Preliminary evidence found that vitamin B6 restored menstruation and normalized hormone levels in three women with amenorrhea who had high prolactin levels.

Prolactin is a hormone that may be elevated in some cases of amenorrhea. A preliminary trial of 200 to 600 mg daily of vitamin B6 restored menstruation and normalized prolactin levels in three amenorrheic women with high initial prolactin levels; however, 600 mg daily of vitamin B6 had no effect on amenorrheic women who did not have high prolactin levels.124 A number of other small, preliminary trials have not demonstrated an effect of either oral or injected vitamin B6 on prolactin levels,125, 126, 127, 128, 129 and they also have reported inconsistent effects on restoring menstruation.130, 131, 132 Larger, controlled trials are needed to better determine the usefulness of vitamin B6 in amenorrhea. http://www.vitaminsource.com/Products/7029-coenzyme-active-b6-caps-50mg-wp5ppak.aspx
Raw animal foods, especially raw organs, are a reportedly a good source of B6 (http://www.keeperofthehome.org/2008/07/the-health-benefits-of-eating-raw-meat.html). Dr. Terry Wahls uses both raw meats and organs and B6 supplements (probably the highly bioavailable P5P form) in successfully treating her MS.

Since overweight is a far more common issue among the general population than underweight and since it has been shown that B6, which is found in raw animal foods, can remedy pathological amenorrhea, the focus of the critical article on raw diets seems a bit off target. The more important risk appears to be not getting enough of certain important nutrients, such as B6, by overly restricting the diet. Not only does cooking not help with obtaining sufficient B6, it reportedly makes it more difficult.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 07:17:21 am by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline miles

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2013, 06:17:03 pm »
Vitamin B6

Roasted Beef: 0.5mg    27%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7387/2

Raw Beef: 0.6mg    30%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7491/2

Pan fried beef liver: 1.0mg    51%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3470/2

Raw beef liver: 1.1mg    54%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2


Energy availability in raw vs cooked meat & tubers:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19732938
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228431/

Taurine:
"Robert Backus DVM, PHD of the Dept. of BioSciences of the University of California agreed with Dr. Hassan PHD microbiology (North California)in that taurine can be heated in hydrochloric acid up to 110 o C (262 oF) for 24 hours without substantial destruction. This was what author, Ann Martin (Protect Your Pet) found out when she sent her questions out to these biologists. "
http://www.msdivine.net/felinebeauty/taurine.php (Best source I could find on this... No studies available on pubmed etc..)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 07:07:30 pm by miles »
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2013, 06:42:46 pm »
Somehow, in healing practice I find those minute difference in numbers to be false.

Raw beef experienced by my driver opens up his small blood vessels and makes blood through them flow again.  Cured 4 years of erectile dysfunction.



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Offline miles

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2013, 06:52:13 pm »
Did you first try feeding him the same food, but appropriately cooked?
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Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2013, 07:09:27 pm »
If those numbers are accurate, the difference is small, but it's still in raw's favor, not cooked. Also, Dr. Wahl's recommended raw meats and organs because heat damages omega 3 fatty acids, which is widely reported (http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/fats/how-cooking-affects-omega-3-fatty-acid.html#b, http://www.marksdailyapple.com/cooking-omegas/#axzz2XsySnTVP) and it also damages glutathione precursors according to Dr. Chris Masterjohn (The Biochemical Magic of Raw Milk and Other Raw Foods: Glutathione, http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/nutrition/fats/how-cooking-affects-omega-3-fatty-acid.html#b).

I wonder where this notion that B6 is particularly sensitive to heat comes from? Here's another instance where this claim was made: http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/need-raw-meat-for-b6/?action=post;quote=29628;last_msg=29628

Thanks for the data, Miles. It helped me realize that the more important connection of B6 to raw foods is probably not in the B6 levels of the foods themselves, but the B6 level in the body. I read before that B6 helps the body protect itself against oxidative stress from cooked foods, and I found more on it:
Quote
a unique form of vitamin B6 can help prevent the formation of advanced glycation end products (AGEs) and has been shown in laboratory and clinical studies to help avert complications of diabetes such as neuropathy, retinopathy, and kidney damage. Known as pyridoxamine, this novel form of vitamin B6 offers critical protective benefits not only for individuals with diabetes, but for everyone seeking to prevent many of the deleterious effects of aging.
This may help explain why certain people like me report more benefits from raw foods than others, like Miles perhaps. I'll make a wild guess that his B6 status is probably better than mine. This is an example of how diet bashers can be quite helpful in revealing why certain people do better on a particular dietary approach than others. Thanks Miles!

If B6 really does help protect against damage from cooked foods, I wonder why I don't recall coming across this connection in the past (is it just my bad memory?  :P ) and why B6 was so little discussed in this forum until I started blabbering about it? It's an interesting mystery.

Here's some more info suggesting benefits to raw:

Raw human breast milk was found to be superior to pasteurized: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1714023/

Quote
Cooking temperature

"This is not a can of worms I've opened on WHS yet, but I think cooking temperature is a significant factor in health. Gentle cooking methods preserve nutrients, form fewer potentially damaging compounds such as advanced glycation end-products, lipid peroxides and heterocyclic amines, and do not increase the energy density of foods. In diabetics, a diet composed of gently cooked foods increases estimated insulin sensitivity, improves glucose control, and substantially decreases markers of inflammation, compared to one composed of similar foods cooked by higher-heat methods (7, 8 ).

Stephan Guyenet on Cooking temperature in What Causes Insulin Resistance? Part VI
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2012/01/what-causes-insulin-resistance-part-vi.html

I do cook some of my food and I do so in part to avoid one of the biggest potential pitfalls of raw diets in today's world--undereating. Most dieters are trying to lose weight, rather than maintain or gain it, so it's an issue for a minority of "dieters", but it can be a very important one. Even overweight people could potentially be impacted by it if their diet is severely restricted and undereating results in not getting enough of certain important nutrients. Paul Jaminet has discussed the nutrient angle (macro as well as micro) quite a bit.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2013, 08:26:32 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline svrn

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2013, 11:30:43 am »
WHya re people bashing raw paleo?
who cares!
Most people will perish as this world burns at the hands of the poisons of the kingdom of Satan.
And I say good riddens. While the sheeple die and become extinct the elite of this world who understand true health such as ourselves will survive and thrive.
The solution is not to convert the idiots but to create as many of the free people of the future as possible.

This will have to include polygamy of course to create any reasonable amount of change in the future.
A more powerful raw animal food community in america will also be necessary if we are to keep our children out of the filthy blood and cum stained hands of child protective service who we know will not accept raw paleo families.
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Offline Dr. D

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2013, 12:29:16 pm »
Oh lord I didn't even consider what cps would think of parents feeding raw bacteria filled high meat.
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline svrn

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2013, 12:52:27 pm »
They would consider giving high meat to your child ample reason to kidnap them and put them on 7 psychotropic medications (the national average for kids kidnapped by cps) in a some sickos rape dungeon.

If they found out about high meat that kid would be gone a second.

Having children is no longer safe in america folks, get with the program. The only way to fight this is with a strong nationwide raw paleo movement which i unfortunately dont see happening.

For example america has a very strong "patriot" movement. A veteran whose wife just birthed his child had the child instantly kidnapped and the only excuse was that he was part of an organization caled oathkeepers.

Well word spread very quickly throughout the patriot community and due to the communities extreme popularity in America cps was forced to return the child. 

This is the kind of thing we need for raw paleo parents.

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Offline svrn

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #63 on: July 03, 2013, 12:57:53 pm »
Vitamin B6

Roasted Beef: 0.5mg    27%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7387/2

Raw Beef: 0.6mg    30%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/7491/2

Pan fried beef liver: 1.0mg    51%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3470/2

Raw beef liver: 1.1mg    54%(of RDA)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3468/2


Energy availability in raw vs cooked meat & tubers:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19732938
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228431/

Taurine:
"Robert Backus DVM, PHD of the Dept. of BioSciences of the University of California agreed with Dr. Hassan PHD microbiology (North California)in that taurine can be heated in hydrochloric acid up to 110 o C (262 oF) for 24 hours without substantial destruction. This was what author, Ann Martin (Protect Your Pet) found out when she sent her questions out to these biologists. "
http://www.msdivine.net/felinebeauty/taurine.php (Best source I could find on this... No studies available on pubmed etc..)

not sure what you are trying to say here. I hope more pro cooked food propaganda isnt infecting the boards again.
There could be more  b6 in cooked food but it will be much less utilizable by the human body.

Its the same concept as having one worker thats completely healthy vs 2 workers in wheelchairs.
You are going to have more workers with the wheelchair option but if you go with the healthy guy you will get much more out of that one person than the two damaged people.

QUALITY OVER QUANTITY

Nutrients work in the exact same way. Do you understand what I am saying here? Il try to explain better if not.
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Offline Dr. D

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #64 on: July 03, 2013, 01:38:45 pm »
It's a shitty time to be an American for sure. Not only that, I'm am educator soon to be involved in the public schooling system. Hopefully I can help some messed up kids.

I was thinking the exact thing about that cooked v raw thing. The nutrients are still there, but are they bioavailable? I know cooking vegetables (broccoli for sure) locks in the nutrients and limits bioavailability. I could find a source when I get to my computer if people can't google raw vs cooked broccoli. The nutrients are only extractable in a lab. Why do we magically think meat is different?
-Dustin

Trying to heal ADHD. Common symptoms: fatigue, impulsiveness, poor attention, no motivation.
Other side issues I'd like to get over: Acne, dandruff, tooth health (yellow, poor gums, gingivitis)

If ya ain't hungry enough to eat raw liver, ya ain't hungry enough.

We are all just doing the best we can, with what we know, at any given time.

Offline LePatron7

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #65 on: July 03, 2013, 04:14:20 pm »
I do cook some of my food and I do so in part to avoid one of the biggest potential pitfalls of raw diets in today's world--undereating.

I'm not sure I follow. What does eating raw have to do with undereating? Isn't that one of the things the anti-raw pushers promote? That we can't get enough calories from raw foods?

If you can get a hold of beef fat, you can eat plenty of calories. At 200 calories per oz, I eat 7.5 oz daily for 1,500 calories daily just from fat. I also eat aprox. 1 lb (15 oz) beef chuck roast daily for another 550 calories, putting me at a little over 2,000 calories. Plus I eat various fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds.

The point I'm making is we can get plenty of raw calories if we have access to the right foods.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell

Offline Haai

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #66 on: July 03, 2013, 04:44:35 pm »
I'm not sure I follow. What does eating raw have to do with undereating? Isn't that one of the things the anti-raw pushers promote? That we can't get enough calories from raw foods?

If you can get a hold of beef fat, you can eat plenty of calories. At 200 calories per oz, I eat 7.5 oz daily for 1,500 calories daily just from fat. I also eat aprox. 1 lb (15 oz) beef chuck roast daily for another 550 calories, putting me at a little over 2,000 calories. Plus I eat various fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds.

The point I'm making is we can get plenty of raw calories if we have access to the right foods.

I also do not understand how eating raw could lead to undereating. Since I got my last meat package a week ago I've been eating about two kilos of meat plus I would say about 200 to 300g suet per day.
"In the modern, prevailing view of the cosmos, we sit here as tiny, unimportant specks of protoplasm, flukes of nature, and stare out into an almost limitless void. Vast, nameless tracts of emptiness dominate the scene. Talk about feeling small.
But we do not look out at the universe; it is, instead, within us, as a rich 3-D visual experience whose location is the mind" - R. Lanza, Beyond Biocentrism.

Offline PaleoPhil

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #67 on: July 03, 2013, 06:52:05 pm »
I'm not looking for an argument, just sharing my experience and reporting what I've seen to Miles to try to help explain that I am not a 100% raw purist or dogmatist and think I can understand some of what he's sharing and still also see great value in raw foods. I don't see it as an absolute either-or choice between 100% raw vs. 100% cooked in every single case for every individual in every circumstance. I'm also hoping this forum will continue to allow some alternative views and not go the way of silencing or ridiculing of all dissent. I wouldn't want it to become like 30BAD in that.

I have access to the foods mentioned and I find I when I'm full on raw foods I can eat still more if I cook some. This fits with the claim of many rawists that obese people can lose weight best on a raw diet, which matches what I've seen from people's reports in this forum. It's a great strength of raw diets, as most people go on a diet at least in part to lose excess body fat. I think it's actually also a big concession by promoters of the coctivore hypothesis that rawists lose excess body fat more successfully. Normally, this would be seen as a reason to do a diet rather than to not do it.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 09:05:07 pm by PaleoPhil »
>"When some one eats an Epi paleo Rx template and follows the rules of circadian biology they get plenty of starches when they are available three out of the four seasons." -Jack Kruse, MD
>"I recommend 20 percent of calories from carbs, depending on the size of the person" -Ron Rosedale, MD (in other words, NOT zero carbs) http://preview.tinyurl.com/6ogtan
>Finding a diet you can tolerate is not the same as fixing what's wrong. -Tim Steele
Beware of problems from chronic Very Low Carb

Offline Poncho

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #68 on: July 04, 2013, 12:35:51 am »
WHya re people bashing raw paleo?
who cares!
Most people will perish as this world burns at the hands of the poisons of the kingdom of Satan.
And I say good riddens. While the sheeple die and become extinct the elite of this world who understand true health such as ourselves will survive and thrive.
The solution is not to convert the idiots but to create as many of the free people of the future as possible.

This will have to include polygamy of course to create any reasonable amount of change in the future.
A more powerful raw animal food community in america will also be necessary if we are to keep our children out of the filthy blood and cum stained hands of child protective service who we know will not accept raw paleo families.

I think that if you knowingly let the world die because it lacks the knowledge that you have,
you are actively killing yourself.

Maybe I'm wrong, but you should probably reconsider your proclamation there, just to be sure.

I think the whole 'every man for himself' kinda attitude is a critical ingredient in the formula for the poison that keeps humanity going in the wrong direction.

Just because you know how to live a superior life, doesn't mean youre an elite being. It means that you know more. If you don't help others, what is the purpose of you?

Offline eveheart

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #69 on: July 04, 2013, 01:12:45 am »
This fits with the claim of many rawists that obese people can lose weight best on a raw diet, which matches what I've seen from people's reports in this forum. It's a great strength of raw diets, as most people go on a diet at least in part to lose excess body fat. I think it's actually also a big concession by promoters of the coctivore hypothesis that rawists lose excess body fat more successfully. Normally, this would be seen as a reason to do a diet rather than to not do it.

This is my experience. Specifically, if I eat cooked foods, I do not recognize "fullness" until I have overeaten. For years, this was diagnosed as binge-eating disorder. When I stick to raw foods, and I never overeat. Other symptoms of binge-eating disorder, such as obsessive thoughts about food, are absent with RPD. I think that most of my health improvement has been due to the elimination of sugars and other neolithic foods, but there is a discernible improvement in other symptoms (like arthritis, diabetes, ease of digestion, and overall energy levels) when I eat strictly raw paleo.

As far as "people" bashing raw paleo, I say, "Let 'em!" Beware of becoming a counter-basher; that would be hypocritical.
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Offline svrn

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #70 on: July 04, 2013, 01:38:56 am »
People dont want to hear the truth and dont want to be helped.

WE must accept that most people on this earth will die at the hands of the luciferian cabal.

After accepting that we can realize the true path to victory which is through the people of the future.

Imagine if every male on this board had 20 or 30 kids. Imagine what kind of effect that will have on the world in a couple of generations if all of the males in those families have 20 or 30 kids.

Do the math and you will see that converting people is a huge waste of time compared to raising children because over 99 percent of them dont want to hear it.

The mormons didnt get to where they are by converting people. They got to where they are through massive birth rates only possible through polygamy (never would have happened through monogamy and especially not through polygyny) and thats why it is illegal.

the raw paleo dieters are the elites of this world because as I watch all those around deteriorate and suffer i see myself and those who live like my thriving. We are the ones who have what it takes to survive the assault being inflicted upon humanity right now. THis makes us the definition of elite and we will be the ones to carry our genes into the future abnd the greater the extent to which we do that the more successful we will be. Converting people is a huge waste of time compared to this in my opinion.

Most of hamanity is already lost their conditioning is scientific and perfect. Those few of us who it does not work on are mutants in terms of rest of hamanity and we must pass on the genetic code of the free men of this planet as the death rate and infertility rate of the sheeple continues to skyrocket.

We must take advantage of the death of the sheeple and replace them in the future.

The mystery schools have a saying about this, "let the dead bury their dead". Although these are the most evil people on our planet they are also some of the smartest and you cant help but agree with a lot of what they are saying when you read their writings.
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Offline svrn

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #71 on: July 04, 2013, 01:44:08 am »
Please note that my point is not that you should not tell new people about raw paleo diet.

My point is only that theres is no use in wasting your time with people who simply want to argue. If they want to bash raw paleo let them.

You aint seen nothing yet though.

If raw paleo ever becomes truly big you will see the brightest minds in the disinformation business begin to enter the field of discrediting the raw paleo diet and what you are seeing now from durianrider or others like him will seem like a joke.
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Offline svrn

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #72 on: July 04, 2013, 01:48:58 am »
on the topic of overeating one raw foods.

I eat A LOT less on raw than I did with cooked, probably half the amount.  remember the giant plates of meat and starches and sauces and everything I used to eat when eating cooked and I was still always hungry and still very skinny.

Now I probably eat less than half of what I ate by weight and am always satisfied with very little food. On top of that im not extremely skinny anymore and look very healthy in terms of my weight. Looking at pictures of my skinny days is kind of scary lol.

It may seem like im undereating compared to the old days but my body is very happy. I think you just need a lot less food when it raw because it is so much more bioavailable.
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Offline goodsamaritan

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #73 on: July 04, 2013, 02:03:59 am »
Quote
People dont want to hear the truth and dont want to be helped.

WE must accept that most people on this earth will die at the hands of the luciferian cabal.

There are quite a number of people on this mindset.

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Offline Poncho

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Re: Why are people bashing Raw Paleo?
« Reply #74 on: July 04, 2013, 05:40:38 am »
Just because all of the good people I personally know (family and friends mostly) are ignorant and hideously misinformed, doesn't mean Ill willingly let them die at my feet.
Thats a little twisted, dont you think?

About the only concept modern human has shared with me, that I believe in more than ever, is being a good person.
Helping others, not letting someone suffer just because they push help away with their deeply bred shitty dispositions.

The more someone fights me about raw paleo, the more I know they need it.
I'm not saying random strangers, I mean my loved ones.

What kind of selfish bitch would I be not to help whoever I can to know what I know?

And it is very true, that people hate being told new things.
That doesn't matter. It's not their fault that they are programmed like that.

The way I see it, I know better.
So if I can't change them, their failure is my own fault.

People are like computer games (grade 4 computer games), you know the mystery solving adventure games? Confusing, but ultimately doable.
You might have a very hard time solving the mystery, you will probably have to try it quite a few ways, but if you don't just get angry and quit, youll figure it out.
Cause its a computer game. And honestly, there are only so many ways to do it.

It doesnt take a genius here, it just takes a creative person to persevere.

 

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