Can one lose on excess calories while doing zero carb?

[Dean]

OK. So, in just a while, my experiment begins.

I am going to eat as much animal fat as I can stand, getting my calories way up there, just to see if I can continue losing body fat doing this.

I have always thought the calorie theory had merit, but, possibly it makes no difference if one eats zero carb and eats plenty of animal fat.

This should be a very interesting experiment.

I invite you all to come check it out.

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/about1484.html

It's gonna be hard to eat all this fat, but, somebody has to do it.

[wodgina]

If you stick to just meat/fat and water I think your going to struggle actually eating enough to make up 5000 calories. Once I'm full on meat and fat i can't take another bite and often hit that point when I 've got a mouthfull of meat and fat I'll spit it out.

If you add cream I think you could do it as the opiates can overide the brain stomach 'fullness' feedback loop if ya get me.

Goodluck

ps I'm thinking raw meat and fat, don't know how cooked meat and fat goes. Probably the same.

[Dean]

Thanks.

Yah, I'm trying to leave the dairy out, cuz, it seems to have some sort of stalling effect on me. I've done really high calorie, high animal fat, including eggs and lots of heavy cream and cheese, but, I stalled dead in my tracks. I didn't gain, though. This time, I want to eliminate those factors, and I wanna see if I'll actually lose body fat.

Believe me, I know what you mean about having a hard time eating lots of calories on ZC. I'm a little worried how sick I might get eating all that animal fat. Perhaps if I do a lot of eating throughout the day, I can get a lot of calories in. Realistically, I'm probably gonna be closer to 3-4,000 calories a day doing this. But, that will still be excess calories.

[Dean]

Last couple days, did over 5,000 calories each day. Been drowning my meat in animal fat. Sorta makes me queasy for a spell. I'm going to officially begin my experiment on Thursday, posting my cals each day, and my weight each Thursday. I sure wish I could eat butter, and may have to at some point, since all that tallow and lard is sorta making me sick.

[Dean]

Well, I did it again. Went over 5,000 cals, and 81% fat to boot.

This experiment is about to begin.

Read the details here.

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/sutra30106.php#30106

I'm feeling a lot better eating all this fat. It's funny how quickly I adjusted to it. For that I'm glad, cuz, not only is it going to be good for the experiment to keep cals as high as possible, but, I really think the more animal fat I consume, the quicker I'm going to lose this excess roll of fat, which is that last, stubborn bit of fat that is so hard to lose.

[Dean]

Results for Week 1 are in!

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/sutra30308.php#30308

Onto Week 2...

[Dean]

Well,

My meat and fat experiment has been getting some interesting results.

On Tuesday I finished my first week. Despite consuming 5232 average daily calories, and 86% average daily animal fat, which should have put 2.8 kg of body fat on me, I actually lost 0.4 kg of body fat. And, the loss continues. Today I was down 0.9 kg! It's really amazing to me.

So much for the calorie theory, huh?

[Satya]

On Tuesday I finished my first week. Despite consuming 5232 average daily calories, and 86% average daily animal fat, which should have put 2.8 kg of body fat on me, I actually lost 0.4 kg of body fat. And, the loss continues. Today I was down 0.9 kg! It's really amazing to me.

So much for the calorie theory, huh?

It's good to read your progress reports, Dean.  Are you actually testing your body fat, or are you assuming the weight lost is fat?  It could be water, muscle, waste and or fat.  Only by testing body fat can you know for sure.  However, considering that you are close to no carb, it's probably fat and/or water.  Keep it up!

[Raw Kyle]

Good experiment, you have my encouragements.

[feral]

Well,

My meat and fat experiment has been getting some interesting results.

On Tuesday I finished my first week. Despite consuming 5232 average daily calories, and 86% average daily animal fat, which should have put 2.8 kg of body fat on me, I actually lost 0.4 kg of body fat. And, the loss continues. Today I was down 0.9 kg! It's really amazing to me.

So much for the calorie theory, huh?

I am not the least bit surprised.  Thanks for taking the plunge as it were.  I imagine body fat might be similar to swelling tissues fighting off infection, only the body fat is trying to stave off toxicity.

[Dean]

It's good to read your progress reports, Dean.  Are you actually testing your body fat, or are you assuming the weight lost is fat?  It could be water, muscle, waste and or fat.  Only by testing body fat can you know for sure.  However, considering that you are close to no carb, it's probably fat and/or water.  Keep it up!

Satya,

I've been using the average of four different instruments to measure body fat, so, yes, this is actual body fat loss. I have been just meat and water for so long that all the water is gone. My jeans keep getting looser and looser. I can even tell when looking in the mirror or when I pinch the small fat roll around my belly, that it is vanishing.

BTW, your cat looks a lot like mine.

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/about913.html

[Satya]

I've been using the average of four different instruments to measure body fat, so, yes, this is actual body fat loss. I have been just meat and water for so long that all the water is gone. My jeans keep getting looser and looser. I can even tell when looking in the mirror or when I pinch the small fat roll around my belly, that it is vanishing.

Very cool, Dean.  You are an inspiration.  This winter I have really cut down on the plant foods, myself.  I don't know if I could ever totally give them up, but I think I could probably reduce it to seaweed, onion, garlic and lemon.  So long as other herbs and spices are allowed. 

Hey, post some photos on this forum when you get a chance, eh?

[Dean]

Week 2 results are in!

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/sutra30589.php#30589

[Dean]

Satya,

I used to have a cat that looked just like that. I love those markings on a cat.

Are you a cat person?

[lex_rooker]

Dean,
I ran a similar test.  I also lost or maintained my weight for the first few months, however, after eating a diet where the fat as calories was consistently above 85%, I did start to gain weight after 4 months.  I've learned that for me at least, it takes several months for the long term results to show up.

The weight gain was only 10 lbs and it did stabilize at the higher level as long as I continued to eat the very high fat diet.  When I dropped fat back to 65%-70% it again took several months for the weight to start to fall.

I've also read that children who are put on a ketogenic diet due to epilepsy are purposely given a diet with fat as calories in the 90% range.  They found that this high fat level was necessary to allow the children to gain weight where a diet with less fat did not.

It will be interesting to follow your progress for the long term.

Lex

[Dean]

Week 3 results are in!

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/sutra30994.php#30994

Interesting, Lex. I find it very hard to keep fat above 80%. I'm getting down to that last bit of body fat, where I might have to do some real calorie restriction to lose more. We'll see what happens next week, when I drop my cals down to maintenance levels, while still eating carnivorously.

[Satya]

I used to have a cat that looked just like that. I love those markings on a cat.

Are you a cat person?

I have 3 cats, a dog, and 5 hens on about 2 acres in N TX.  My son also has some fish.  Yes, I like both cats and dogs.  The black and white cat is Kato.  He was a stray in our semi-rural area that we got almost 2 years ago.  (The cats come and go and sometimes get taken by coyotes or owls, I kid you not.  We have to make sure the cats are in by dark.)  He is strictly indoors now as he is psychotic, and may be a threat to his own safety outside.  You see, he must dominate everything he comes into contact with, and that includes dogs.  We have a dog, Daphne, that 2 vets have said is a Doberman mix.  She is a ferocious guard dog, yet very smart and sweet.  I have trained her not to bother the chickens ... not even when I am throwing them meat scraps!  Well, when Daphne comes inside, Kato is all over her.  He bites her feet, gets in her face and has even rubbed up under the dog's tail incessantly!  And so we have to keep the dog from just laying into stupid Kato.  He would pull this stunt with other dogs who might not be as accommodating if he were let out.  We have a harness for him and bring him out, but sheesh, what a loony cat!  I have videotaped the Daphne-Kato antics in the past.  If I ever get some good footage, I will post it.

[Satya]

And the dog was a stray too.  She showed up huddled in our yard on a frosty morning in December 2006.  She was full of milk but no puppies in site.  I called around and looked for signs of a lost dog, but she was probably dumped off.  That's why we don't know her age or breed.  All my domestic animals have been neutered.

And back on topic, good to read your progress.  Congratulations on your success so far!  Why do you measure in kgs anyway?  No biggy to convert 2.2 lbs = 1 kg, but curious.  And then we have the stone = 14 lbs, iirc.

[lex_rooker]

I find it very hard to keep fat above 80%. I'm getting down to that last bit of body fat, where I might have to do some real calorie restriction to lose more. We'll see what happens next week, when I drop my cals down to maintenance levels, while still eating carnivorously.

Yes, I also found it difficult but did manage by adding lots and lots of suet to my ground meat mix.    I also had been eating ZC for over 2 years and my weight had reached a low and been stable for almost 18 months (BMI between 19 or 20) before I raised the fat level.  When I raised my fat level weight increased and then stabilized at a BMI between 21 and 22.  This is different than your case where you are starting with a higher relative weight and body fat level.

[Dean]

Total : Wed Jan 14 - Tue Feb 3

Average Calories: 4105
Average Fat: 86%

Expected: 5.4 kg body fat gain
Actual: 4.3 kg body fat loss

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/sutra30994.php#30994

This should speak loud and clear for itself.

I've been over consuming calories since Nov 24, 2008. Since then, I've lost 10.3 kg of body fat!

In November, I was not able to button my size 34 jeans. Now, I cannot wear those jeans, cuz they fall off me. The size 33 jeans I have been wearing are falling down to the point I won't be able to wear those anymore here real soon. I had a large bulging belly back in November, and now, my fat roll around my belly is getting very small. When I'm sitting down, I can still grab some fat, and so, I've still got some to lose. Eating this way, I'm totally sure that, no matter how much I eat, I will lose every bit of body fat I have.

Boy, Satya, Kato sounds like one wild cat.

I use kilos, cuz that is the most universal measurement. Most members on the Bus use that as well.

[Dean]

Week 4 results are in!

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/sutra31302.php#31302

The loss continues! 

[Satya]

It would be interesting, Dean, to see a week of no dairy but egg consumption.  I don't know if that's something you are up for, but I'd sure like to see it.  Does cheese bother your digestion at all?

I gave up my annual winter cheese indulgence a few weeks ago.  Both of my sons won't eat any dairy, so I fed the rest of the cheese to the hens.  I feel much better without any dairy, but every year around the holidays, there it is, staring at me.  As I try to keep the carbs low, it's a food I can eat with family and friends.  But it's no good for me. 

So, there's Stormy kitty yawning.  He is the best hunter in the neighborhood.  He eats whole field mice and rats, head first, organs last.  He jumps off the garage roof to get birds.  I hate that.

[Dean]

Satya,

I'm now on seasoned meat and eggs with no dairy. I gave dairy up for good. Check my MAM thread and you'll see why. Like you, it's not good for me to touch dairy, and, I never will again. I don't have any problem with eggs.

[Dean]

Week 5 results are in!

http://magicbus.myfreeforum.org/sutra31429.php#31429

Here's your answer, Satya.

[Raw Kyle]

Looks like you're doing very well; keep it up.