Author Topic: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"  (Read 11454 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Inger

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
  • Gender: Female
  • 38 yo Norwegian RVAF s.-06, 90% carniv.
    • View Profile
Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« on: December 08, 2013, 11:22:08 pm »
Cooked foods are not addictive to me...lol I eat cooked once in a while (seldom), like precooked mussels, I eat them cold. Actually when I do eat something cooked it makes me crave raw..lol pretty much the opposite than the raw guru's predict  ;). Most days I eat 100% raw tho. I have eaten raw so many years... maybe it is for the beginners it is addictive? Or it depends what you eat? I never eat crap, ever. Also never cooked carbs. I barely eat any carbs anyways, practically only the local, wild ones in season.

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2013, 12:27:00 am »
Inger, did you forget those fundamental? It’s not cooked foods in general that are most likely addictive, but milk, dairy and cereals — especially wheat.

http://www.ranprieur.com/readings/origins.html
The origins of agriculture:
a biological perspective and a new hypothesis

by Greg Wadley and Angus Martin
Published in Australian Biologist 6: 96-105, June 1993

Pharmacological properties of cereals and milk
Recent research into the pharmacology of food presents a new perspective on these problems.

Exorphins: opioid substances in food

Prompted by a possible link between diet and mental illness, several researchers in the late 1970s began investigating the occurrence of drug-like substances in some common foodstuffs.

Dohan (1966, 1984) and Dohan et al. (1973, 1983) found that symptoms of schizophrenia were relieved somewhat when patients were fed a diet free of cereals and milk. He also found that people with coeliac disease -- those who are unable to eat wheat gluten because of higher than normal permeability of the gut -- were statistically likely to suffer also from schizophrenia. Research in some Pacific communities showed that schizophrenia became prevalent in these populations only after they became 'partially westernised and consumed wheat, barley beer, and rice' (Dohan 1984).

Groups led by Zioudrou (1979) and Brantl (1979) found opioid activity in wheat, maize and barley (exorphins), and bovine and human milk (casomorphin), as well as stimulatory activity in these proteins, and in oats, rye and soy. Cereal exorphin is much stronger than bovine casomorphin, which in turn is stronger than human casomorphin. Mycroft et al. (1982, 1987) found an analogue of MIF-1, a naturally occurring dopaminergic peptide, in wheat and milk. It occurs in no other exogenous protein.

http://disinfo.com/2010/10/the-addictive-opioids-in-wheat-and-dairy-foods/
The Addictive Opioids In Wheat And Dairy Foods

Wheat- and dairy products contain opioid peptides influencing endorphin receptors in the brain. These peptides are physically addictive, causing dependence, asthma, obesity, apathy, ignorance and numbness.

http://www.nutramed.com/eatingdisorders/addictivefoods.htm 
Pieces of milk and wheat proteins (peptides) can act like the body's own narcotics, the endorphins, and were described by Zioudro, Streaty and Klee as "exorphins" in 1979. Other food proteins, such as gluten, results in the production of substances having opiate- (narcotic) like activity. These substances have been termed "exorphins." Hydrolyzed wheat gluten, for example, was found to prolong intestinal transit time and this effect was reversed by concomitant administration of naloxone, a narcotic-blocking drug. Digests of milk proteins also are opioid peptides. The brain effects of exorphins may contribute to the mental disturbances and appetite disorders which routinely accompany food-related illness. The possibility that exorphins are addictive in some people is a fascinating lead which needs further exploration
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2013, 12:52:44 am »
Iguana,  highly addictive opioids also exist aplenty  in cooked foods as well as in dairy and cereals.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 12:56:27 am »
Ok, thanks! 

I was just thinking that what I wrote was somehow  wrong, sorry Inger. There can be some kind of addiction to mixtures (even raw) as well. But AFAIK these are not scientifically well documented like it is the case for the opioids in dairy and wheat.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline TylerDurden

  • Global Moderator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 17,016
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Raw Paleolithic Diet
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 01:21:51 am »
Opioids exist in raw dairy as well as pasteurised dairy. They are supposed to help the calf go to sleep more easily.
"During the last campaign I knew what was happening. You know, they mocked me for my foreign policy and they laughed at my monetary policy. No more. No more.
" Ron Paul.

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2013, 01:42:03 am »
Yes, I know, it's in the texts I quoted. I was referring about raw mixtures, seasoning and raw recipes as being somehow addictive too. 
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2013, 10:18:39 am »
Quote from Iguana
Quote
There can be some kind of addiction to mixtures (even raw) as well.

This is definitely true.  To the degree that a food preparation method reduces the taste change (whether mixing, cooking, etc.), I would say it also allows for addiction.

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,091
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2013, 10:53:55 am »
It seems my digestion was so retched before this diet, that the negative effects of wheat and dairy so much outweighed the slight narcotic effect, that it wasn't a problem at all doing away with them altogether once I was able to replace them with superior foods.

It seems that because raw foods don't have the negative effects, I have developed a strong addiction to the raw paleo diet in itself. Although if it is good for you it shouldn't be considered an addiction.

Yet there are certain things that I simply refuse to go without on this diet, and I have very strong withdrawal symptoms if I go without. If I dont have a large portion of fat with my meals I get immediate symptoms that are not unlike an addict going through withdrawal( though we all know it is simply a case of protein overload).

I have a three to six tablespoonfuls a day of coconut butter, which I feel I need to feel optimal.

Although I usually don't eat much more than a small piece every day, I think that high meat has addictive qualities.

Then I have noticed, but have been reluctant to report, that if I don't have fresh blood and organ meats for more than a week or two I begin to feel lethargic and begin to have intense cravings for a fresh kill. The animals I kill often have to last me a month, but the organs and blood are usually gone by the end of the second week, and I find myself needing  a fix of blood like some starving vampire bat.

Could you imagine me in a rehab 12 step program
My Name is Derek, and I have become addicted to fresh blood.

Anyone else care to confess your  raw addictions?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 12:22:56 am by TylerDurden »
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline Inger

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
  • Gender: Female
  • 38 yo Norwegian RVAF s.-06, 90% carniv.
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2013, 03:06:41 pm »
I am addicted to oysters....  -[ too bad as they are so expensive I cannot have more than 13 / week at this point in my life. Hate it. I want only them!!!!

Raw brains..... but I cannot get any.  -[ makes me feel sad about myself (  ;) )

I have the thing with raw fat plain too, SB. IDK why it tastes like cookie dough to me? It is scary because I can eat and eat and eat it  :o

other things pretty much vary. I am kind of addicted to the taste of snow too. I get such weird cravings to munch on it when outside... crazy! I give in of course..  -X



Offline Inger

  • Chief
  • *****
  • Posts: 937
  • Gender: Female
  • 38 yo Norwegian RVAF s.-06, 90% carniv.
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2013, 03:12:57 pm »
Francois I think I might think a little different about addictive.. maybe I listen so much to my body and crap food (even if taste wise addictive) they makes me feel bad and that is why I just have "cut them out" from my consciousness long ago so they have no change becoming addictive? Raw food goodies like cookies and such... yeah... they can be pretty addictive but the price you have to pay when you eat them is just not worth it and that destroys their addictiveness to me.... so if I make some for family and have a piece or two that is, I never continue eating them and making them for me to eat.

Maybe we are able to consciously chose what addictions we let into our life? that is kind of how I think

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2013, 03:41:47 pm »
Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction
Addiction is the continued repetition of a behavior despite adverse consequences,[1] or a neurological impairment leading to such behaviors.[2]

Thus it doesn't make sense to say  we’re addicted to raw paleo stuff having no adverse consequences.
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline goodsamaritan

  • Administrator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,798
  • Gender: Male
  • Geek Healer Truth Seeker Pro-Natal Pro-Life
    • View Profile
    • Filipino Services Inc.
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2013, 08:53:55 pm »
Quote
I am addicted to oysters....  -[ too bad as they are so expensive I cannot have more than 13 / week at this point in my life. Hate it. I want only them!!!!

In my city, I quenched my oyster addiction / need by eating oysters almost every other day until after 1-2 months I had had enough.

I can do so because oysters are super cheap in my country.

You do need more oyster nutrition... maybe you just need a cheaper source.  I do not see it as an addiction.
Linux Geek, Web Developer, Email Provider, Businessman, Engineer, REAL Free Healer, Pro-Life, Pro-Family, Truther, Ripple-XRP Fan

I'm the network administrator.
My business: Website Dev & Hosting and Email Server Provider,
My blogs: Cure Manual, My Health Blog, Eczema Cure & Psoriasis Cure

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2013, 10:05:26 pm »
I already wrote somewhere there are plenty of big, delicious wild oysters  in Brittany.  Pack your backpack and go to Brittany's bays!  You get them for free there.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 12:24:03 am by TylerDurden »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,091
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2013, 11:51:43 pm »
I was very much addicted to oysters, only the high cost has kept me from indulging as much I would like..
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2013, 12:26:11 am »
Quote
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction
Addiction is the continued repetition of a behavior despite adverse consequences,[1] or a neurological impairment leading to such behaviors.[2]
Once again, it makes no sense to use the word "addicted" in such a case. Is it an "addiction" to breath? To drink water when thirsty?
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,091
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2013, 01:05:29 am »
I use the word addiction facetiously.

Though addiction could also apply to someone whose healthy living habit interferes with their socioeconomic well being. If my expensive food habits compel me to spend all my money on food, leaving nothing left to cover the other expenses of living, then that could be viewed  as an addiction.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 04:35:28 am by TylerDurden »
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline Hanna

  • Shaman
  • *****
  • Posts: 424
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2013, 03:36:07 am »
>>Could you imagine me in a rehab 12 step program
My Name is Derek, and I have become addicted to fresh blood.

:)  Perhaps this could be the opening of your next TV segment or film?

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2013, 02:11:49 pm »
I'm addicted to fatty fish, especially sea bass.  I have eaten at least a pound of it every week for the last 3 years.  For a long time it was more like two pounds a week.

I also love escolar and orange roughy.

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2013, 06:58:02 pm »
Quote
I'm addicted to fatty fish

I'm addicted to breath!  ;D
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

Offline goodsamaritan

  • Administrator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,798
  • Gender: Male
  • Geek Healer Truth Seeker Pro-Natal Pro-Life
    • View Profile
    • Filipino Services Inc.
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2013, 09:26:39 pm »
Quote
I'm addicted to fatty fish, especially sea bass.  I have eaten at least a pound of it every week for the last 3 years.  For a long time it was more like two pounds a week.

Does not sound like an addiction.

It sounds like normal food for sustenance.

Linux Geek, Web Developer, Email Provider, Businessman, Engineer, REAL Free Healer, Pro-Life, Pro-Family, Truther, Ripple-XRP Fan

I'm the network administrator.
My business: Website Dev & Hosting and Email Server Provider,
My blogs: Cure Manual, My Health Blog, Eczema Cure & Psoriasis Cure

Offline sabertooth

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,091
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2013, 08:46:29 am »
I love sea bass, its just too damn expensive for me to afford, or else I would be addicted to it as well.
A man who makes a beast of himself, forgets the pain of being a man.

Offline cherimoya_kid

  • One who bans trolls
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,513
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2013, 09:37:09 pm »
Quote
I love sea bass, its just too damn expensive for me to afford, or else I would be addicted to it as well.

It's too expensive for me too, but I have a source that lets me get sea bass chunks for $8 a pound.  It's really fresh, too.

Offline zaidi

  • Buffalo Hunter
  • ***
  • Posts: 138
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2013, 12:00:21 am »
Question 1: I wonder how healthy is Sea Bass? It has only 3% fat content.

Question 2: Also, how close are mussels to oysters in HEALTH & TASTE? 

I saw today live mussels for 2.50 Euro per kg (packing of 2 Kg costed 5 Euro).  Is it a cheap price?

But I didn't buy it while I cannot eat whole 2 Kgs in 2-3 days and I read somewhere that one must not eat the dead mussels.

Can one freeze the raw mussels?

I wished we had completed the Paleo Book here at our forum and added all the informations in that book, without repeating things again and again like it happens in the forum. Although one may use the search option in forum too, but one always doesn't get the desired search results.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 02:16:52 am by TylerDurden »

Offline goodsamaritan

  • Administrator
  • Mammoth Hunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 8,798
  • Gender: Male
  • Geek Healer Truth Seeker Pro-Natal Pro-Life
    • View Profile
    • Filipino Services Inc.
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2013, 12:40:01 am »
The taste of raw mussels vs raw oysters are very very very different... At least the ones i get in my country.
Linux Geek, Web Developer, Email Provider, Businessman, Engineer, REAL Free Healer, Pro-Life, Pro-Family, Truther, Ripple-XRP Fan

I'm the network administrator.
My business: Website Dev & Hosting and Email Server Provider,
My blogs: Cure Manual, My Health Blog, Eczema Cure & Psoriasis Cure

Offline Iguana

  • Mammoth Hunter
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,043
  • Gender: Male
  • Eating tuna fish
    • View Profile
Re: Addictive foods and misuse of the word "addiction"
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2013, 02:13:31 am »
Zaidi,

1. I don't understand this concept of "healthy" foods. Any food can be useful or harmful depending on the person current needs and the amount consumed : anything eaten in excess or when one doesn’t need it is harmful.

2. Mussels are usually cheap and 2,50 €/kg is a good price : most of the times they are a bit more expensive. I can eat only a few of them at once, so 2 kg would be ways too much for me. When I buy some, it’s 6-7 pieces only. Their taste is very strong, yes very different than oyster’s taste. Dead mussels get quickly a bad smell / bad taste for most people, although a few guys are fond of dead shellfish.   

I would not eat anything frozen and thawed.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 02:16:04 am by TylerDurden »
Cause and effect are distant in time and space in complex systems, while at the same time there’s a tendency to look for causes near the events sought to be explained. Time delays in feedback in systems result in the condition where the long-run response of a system to an action is often different from its short-run response. — Ronald J. Ziegler

 

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk